[El Chinito loco]

At the end of the day having a low birth rate (which is cyclical and recoverable) is still preferable to being inundated with hundreds of thousands of north african muslim fundamentalists and latin american cartel button men that will run your society right into the ground.

[Carlos100]

(04-19-2015 08:46 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I don't accept the line that the Japanese aren't having kids because of the economy and money. I've even heard this from women in Japan too. It's complete bullshit. If women can have bunches of kids in impoverished African countries, the Japanese can manage at least 2. They aren't having them because it's not a priority.

Money is a factor in their decision. They want their kids to have a middle-class or better lifestyle as they grow up, so they factor in the cost of raising children and paying for their college educations along with how much money they (the parents) need for retirement, plus how much time they have for the different parental duties required of them under Japanese culture. Then, they decide how many kids they can afford under those parameters.

One other thing, they want to have at least one boy child. So, if the first child is a girl and the second is a boy, they will often stop there because they think they have the bases covered. If the first two children are girls, they're more likely to have another one to try one more time to get a boy.

[Troll King]

(04-17-2015 09:39 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Troll King, tell me exactly what words or phrases you don't understand and I'll translate. Post all of them and it will be my pleasure to go one by one...

(04-17-2015 10:05 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Quote:

Can someone translate this to English for my white ass?

There are several pimp The pimp from NYC is bragging to other two that his orgasm control is so good that he only ejaculates at will. One of the other two pimps, Sweet, disagrees. They place a $500 bet.

Sweet has a mulatto hoe perform fellatio on NYC pimp and he ejaculates in under 3 minutes losing the bet.

cat= vagina

jib: mouth

pop= orgasm, swipe= dick

C-Note= hundred dollar bill, girl or "white girl"= cocaine

Edit: Lizard was right there are multiple pimps at this this party not 3.

(04-17-2015 10:44 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(04-17-2015 09:35 PM)Troll King Wrote:  

Can someone translate this to English for my white ass?

Read the book Black Players, that teaches the slang and the history behind the pimp game.

You can incorporate a lot of the pimp game into your dealings with women.

It will also make you realize just how much shit has really changed.

I will definitely check out the book. Also thanks for the translation. I had never heard some of that slang before. Cat = Pussy make sense when you think about it. I got the gist of it but I still don't know why Swipe means dick or girl means cocaine, though white girl makes more sense I guess. Or Jib = mouth? Is it arbitrary or is there some method here like Cat = pussy? Thanks again.

[Troll King]

I just checked out the book on Amazon that you guys linked and this review is more than enough to convince me to buy a copy:

Quote:

Milner, a white graduate student at Berkeley, working for years as a stripper in San Francisco wrote this personal and academic study of pimp culture in the Bay Area during the late 60s. As a stripper working in establishments with "player's club" sections, she had ready access to lounging pimps eager to add her to their "stable". From a dependable factual foundation of dozens of participating pimps, she writes a study amazing in scope and readable detail.

When I claim wide scope, I mean the richness of subjects spans anthropology, social psychology, and sociology. In an eye opening chapter she explains the culture's patriarchal ideology, catechism, and symbols. Drawing from Scripture, the pimps narrate the fall of Adam and Eve, reworking the story to become a symbol of the defeat of mankind by woman. The story propels a pimp system of beliefs that asserts "square" society--all of us but them--is ruled by women and pimp culture is the last bastion of male domination in the Western world. I was invigorated by this new approach to gender relations. The claims are outrageous but these men are living their bluster, and that will make them credible enough for you to rethink to your relationship to the other gender.

That's enough material to make for amazing reading but it's just introductory. A large section will not disappoint--it's probably more than you could hope when you first sought a pimp studies book. In instructional detail, the mechanisms for controlling hos are explained. For any square the psychology of control is not intuitive. Pimps do not shy away from violence but the method of operation is psychological submission. The pimp must be a master of manipulation because the relationship between pimp and ho is an inversion of gender role. The pimp builds alpha magnetism, inspiring the sexual worship of his ho, a conquest so commanding that she becomes the wage earner so she may court his affection, allowing him to have the leisure to shop for fine clothes--quite an inversion.

This is a sociological work covering the bread and butter topics of the department such as race, deviance, and law, giving the book an academic comprehensiveness. The book manages to be intelligent and pure as an academic treatment and remains readable, the prose infused with the flair of that gilded age and place, late 60s San Francisco. The sociological observations spring from wacky encounters between hippies and pimps living in the same neighborhood, pimp war and peace, and more good times.

Find a research library and find this book.

And this one is good too:

Quote:

To validate flawed political doctrines such as cultural determinism and feminism, generations of anthropologists have ventured to deserts, jungles and other remote, dangerous and inhospitable corners of the world in an effort to discover (or, if necessary, fabricate) the existence of a society in which traditional western sex-roles are reversed. The enterprise has been singularly unsuccessful (see Why Men Rule: A Theory of Male Dominance; and The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory: Why an Invented Past Won't Give Women a Future).

However, back in the 70s, Milner and Milner, two American anthropologists, discovered precisely what their colleagues have been searching for in vain right in America's own backyard - or rather back-streets - namely the world of pimps and 'hos'. Here, women are the "economic providers" and "a man may spend hours a day on his hair, clothes and toilette while his women are out working to support the household" (Milner and Milner 1973: p5).

Of course, since pimp culture has now been popularised by generations of rappers, the "secret world" promised by the title may be more familiar to modern readers than on the book's first publication (though even then blaxploitation films had introduced the pimp archtype). However, the picture created in rap lyrics is necessarily so comically caricatured out of all recognition that the Milners' exploration of the reality remains as revelatory as ever. (For example, it is likely that relatively few of the listeners to 50 Cent rap on the radio or MTV about his 'pimp stick' are aware that, according to Donald Goines, 'pimp sticks' are "two wire coat hangers twisted together" used by pimps as a weapon to discipline whores (Whoreson p212)).

Male Dominance and Pimp Philosophy

Of course, although women are the economic providers and pimps are concerned with their clothes and appearance, in one crucial respect, conventional sex roles appear not to be reversed but rather accentuated. Male dominance, the Milners' make clear, was complete and unquestioned.

However, 'pimp philosophy', the worldview passed down among pimps from mentor to student and described by the Milners in detail, raises serious questions about whether this too, in some respects, represents a reversal of the sex roles apparent in mainstream society and whether, in square society, it is in fact men who are dominant (see also The Myth of Male Power).

According to the 'pimp philosophy', "White men (and square blacks) are thought to be 'pussy-whipped' by their wives after being brain washed by their mothers to accept female dominance as the natural order of things. Most families today are controlled by women, who direct the goals and manage the money... by withholding sexual favours" (p161).

It is indeed the case that, while men work longer hours and earn more money than women, women are known to control the vast majority of spending decisions. For example, according to Pocketbook Power: How to Reach the Hearts and Minds of Today's Most Coveted Consumer - Women women make approximately 88% of retail purchases in the US.

According to the 'black players', square husbands are 'pimped' by their wives every bit as ruthlessly as street-prostitutes, by being obliged to earn money and financially support their wives in return for sexual access.

This view of male-female relations, interestingly parallels that of anti-feminists such as Esther Vilar (The Manipulated Man) and Matthew Fitzgerald (Sex-ploytation: how women use their bodies to extort money from men). For example, one pimp's describes how wives bear children because "she knows once she has one or two babies she's gonna have him locked down tight and even if he leaves she can still get four or five hundred dollars a month if he's making any kind of money" (p227). This parallels Vilar's description of children as "hostages". Like Vilar, pimps believe "woman's liberation movement is not revolutionary" but that "what would be truly revolutionary would be the liberation of men" (p227).

According to the pimps, male dominance is the natural and harmonious order of mankind, disrupted only (according to pimp mythology) when Adam gave into sexual desire, and was tempted by Eve to bite into the forbidden fruit, thereby becoming, not the first man, but rather the first trick (166-70). On this view, pimps represent "the only real men in America today" (p162).

Pimp Philosophy Evaluated

Pimp philosophy is certainly more interesting and insightful than the feminist social theory, which represents the dominant paradigm for viewing the relations between the sexes in the academic and political establishment and the mainstream media. The Milners are themselves clearly taken by this perspective. "Once the world, and particularly the relations between the sexes, is viewed from a black player's vantage point", they acknowledge, "things never again seem quite the same (p243).

According to the Milners, this is hardly surprising. "Like the sociologist and anthropologist, pimps and hustlers depend for their livelihood on an awareness of social forces and the human psyche" but the "social scientist... has far more leeway than the hustler or the pimp in being wrong before he is out of a job" (p242). In other words, whereas feminist sociologists protected in their universities by ivory towers can hold to their ideological dogmas with blind faith notwithstanding all evidence to the contrary, the pimp's analysis is subjected to ruthless falsification by the market forces beloved of neo-liberal economists.

However, in claiming that male dominance is the natural state of humanity, pimp philosophy seems to take a wrong turn. If male dominance is so natural and harmonious, why is it found today only among a small subculture of pimps? What is more, why even among pimps is it maintained only by levels of violence and of self-control on the part of pimps far greater than that typically apparent in square relationships?

The most fatal flaw in the pimp perception of male dominance as the natural and harmonious state of nature lies in the nature of the pimps' own dominance over their women. As the Milners note:
"[Although] the Book [i.e. the unwritten code of how to pimp passed from mentor to student] provides a blueprint for a male-dominated society and a rationale for wrestling all control over men from women... ironically, this condition is achieved by making women's full-time occupation the control of men who are outside the subculture" (p48).

In other words, the pimp's exploitation of his women relies and depends on those women's exploitation of other men. The Book provides, therefore, not a blueprint for male domination throughout society, but rather a blueprint for domination by a necessarily small subset of men both of women and, indirectly, of other men. The pimp survives, not only through the exploitation of women, but also, more fundamentally, by the vicarious exploitation of other men (namely the prostitutes' clients, or, aptly named, 'tricks').

Sweet Jones, a character from Iceberg Slim's Pimp: The Story of My Life, summarised the point:
"A pimp is really a whore who has reversed the game on whores. So Slim, be sweet as the scratch, no sweeter, and always stick a whore for a bundle before you sex her. A whore ain't nothing but a trick to a pimp. Don't let 'em georgia you. Always get your money in front just like a whore. [TK: Can anyone translate the underlined words? I think I get it but still.] " (Slim 2002: xxi)

[Curiously, the Milners claim to have interviewed Iceberg Slim (née Robert Beck). However, Beck, without mentioning them by name, denies this in The Naked Soul of Iceberg Slim (p200), where he accuses the Milners of stealing black culture. Iceberg Slim: The Lost Interviews with the Pimp apparently includes the alleged interview.]

On this view, with their characteristically feminine concern for clothing, hair and hygiene and their ability, like housewives, to live off the income of their sexual partners, pimps represent, not "the only real men in America today" (p162), but rather second-rate female-impersonators.

[Phoenix]

(04-19-2015 10:24 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  

Money is a factor in their decision. They want their kids to have a middle-class or better lifestyle as they grow up, so they factor in the cost of raising children and paying for their college educations along with how much money they (the parents) need for retirement, plus how much time they have for the different parental duties required of them under Japanese culture. Then, they decide how many kids they can afford under those parameters.

One other thing, they want to have at least one boy child. So, if the first child is a girl and the second is a boy, they will often stop there because they think they have the bases covered. If the first two children are girls, they're more likely to have another one to try one more time to get a boy.

I'm sure it is, but in an unreasonable and anti child prioritizing manner. The amount of money they earn won't affect the number of children they can have - they'll just increase the spending on their lifestyle and the amount spent on the children they do have, further bidding up the prices of those things, such as education.

My point remains, if African women can have big families, with their tiny incomes, Japanese women are failing to do so out of excessive expectations. Give them more money and they'll just raise their expectations. Perhaps this is due to society-wide excessive expectations, work, education, other commitments etc. Eventually the physical impossibility of them continuing to do what they are doing (as reflected in the unrepayable national debt and unmeetable future social security obligations) is going to stop them doing it, whether they like it or not. Perhaps the government should start tying the pension people will receive to the number of children they have.

I thought this was insightful, both in the information and the mentality of the author: http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/japan/opinion/iwao.html.

On your latter point, this theory is not reflected in the sex ratio at birth. Japan has less women at birth than in the US, for example. http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/World...birth.html

[Geomann180]

(04-20-2015 06:55 AM)Troll King Wrote:  

I will definitely check out the book. Also thanks for the translation. I had never heard some of that slang before. Cat = Pussy make sense when you think about it. I got the gist of it but I still don't know why Swipe means dick or girl means cocaine, though white girl makes more sense I guess. Or Jib = mouth? Is it arbitrary or is there some method here like Cat = pussy? Thanks again.

Jib I imagine comes from "jibber jabber", as in "Quit yo' jibber jabber" from Mister T..

G

[Days of Broken Arrows]

Regarding that book that was co-written by an ex-stripper about pimps:

I don't doubt what she says is true about them, but after reading the descriptions I wonder if there is a lack of self-awareness there.

The reason is that I used to hang with a girl in the sex industry and from what I saw, while she and her co-workers might have been exploited by pimp-types, these women were the type who were already maladjusted and seeking such a dysfunctional relationship.

You know how the power dynamic in most healthy male-female relationships balances at around 50-50 because each sex has strengths in different areas? With these girls it didn't. My friend, who I'll use as an example, had what I called "0/100" relationships with men.

To her, men were either a Big Daddy Father Figure who she would place on a pedestal and irrationally worship like a God or they were like inhuman animals she would try to exploit. There was no balance. And when one of her "Gods" would dump her, she'd sulk for a while then suddenly find another asshole who would exploit her. Her friends in the industry all seemed to do the same.

(And yes, I know, men are dominant, but if most normal men dominated women to the insane degree I observed -- constant threats, insults, spankings, violence, stolen money and property -- they'd be kicked to the curb or turned into the cops by the average woman. And, on top of that, if these women were lesbian or bi, they'd then hook up with abusive women.)

This author probably doesn't realize she's this type of woman. Often women get college degrees and assume that piece of paper changes everything. It doesn't.

I think women who get involved in the sex industry have this type of
"master-servant" mentality, meaning they interpret all male-female relationships as either getting exploited or exploiting someone else and they're not comfortable outside those roles.

So, in conclusion, while you might learn about how pimps work from that book, their methods are likely not to work on your average "marketing strategist" or "government analyst." You need the right kind of woman to begin with.

And we all know the type, don't we? The thing pimps do differently is that when they meet girls who go on about abusive exes, addiction problems, or getting molested, instead of trying to save the women, they instinctively know how to cast themselves in the role of the new abuser.

[Saweeep]

Japanese people are just plain weird.

A wonderful, unique, wouldn't want the world to be without them weird...but still as strange as fuck.

[TooFineAPoint]

(04-20-2015 03:26 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I don't doubt what she says is true about them, but after reading the descriptions I wonder if there is a lack of self-awareness there.

The reason is that I used to hang with a girl in the sex industry and from what I saw, while she and her co-workers might have been exploited by pimp-types, these women were the type who were already maladjusted and seeking such a dysfunctional relationship.

You know how the power dynamic in most healthy male-female relationships balances at around 50-50 because each sex has strengths in different areas? With these girls it didn't. My friend, who I'll use as an example, had what I called "0/100" relationships with men.

To her, men were either a Big Daddy Father Figure who she would place on a pedestal and irrationally worship like a God or they were like inhuman animals she would try to exploit. There was no balance. And when one of her "Gods" would dump her, she'd sulk for a while then suddenly find another asshole who would exploit her. Her friends in the industry all seemed to do the same.

(And yes, I know, men are dominant, but if most normal men dominated women to the insane degree I observed -- constant threats, insults, spankings, violence, stolen money and property -- they'd be kicked to the curb or turned into the cops by the average woman. And, on top of that, if these women were lesbian or bi, they'd then hook up with abusive women.)

I think women who get involved in the sex industry have this type of
"master-servant" mentality, meaning they interpret all male-female relationships as either getting exploited or exploiting someone else and they're not comfortable outside those roles.

That seems to square with a bunch of research I did years ago when writing about hookers/pimps. The most interesting books talked about how it was basically their world vs the squares, and so anyone being seen as a square was 100% a mark to be fleeced. But if someone was in their world, then something approximating a domestic attachment could be made. One thing in particular stuck out about pimps (I'm pretty sure this was mostly white pimps -- these were books from the 50s if I recall correctly) is that their "job" was never to protect the girls or collect money from dudes or find customers... it was just to be there, to be her man, and she was expected to do the work and fork over the cash. Most of the pimps they interviewed had stories of losing their virginity at a very young age (usually to a much older woman), and as such had a complete emotional detachment from chasing girls for sex, and had a relatively easy time controlling younger women. The women seemed to be just happy to have a man filling that spot in her brain, I guess because he was one of the non-squares.

The other interesting thing is that of all the books that I read through, the 40s-60s ones were the most interesting, and just relied on interviewing the people as humans and collecting their answers. Everything from the 70s onward was fitting the hookers into the victim narrative of men/capitalism, with absolutely zero interesting anecdotes.