Quote: (04-09-2015 07:28 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:
Training, form, and dedication are all very important, as you rightly point out.
But let's be honest here, and not leave out the full truth. There are only a handful of people in the world potentially capable of doing 3x BW or more on squats and deadlifts and be 100% natty. And I doubt any of them do it natty.
This just demonstrates your ignorance of strength sports, no offense. The human body is capable of much more strength than you think.
There are numerous people capable of a 3xBW deadlift and even a 3xBW squat, who are lifetime drug-free. They don't have to be anything special either, they're just average like you and I. The truly special tend to go into the big money sports. I have very average genetics for strength, I couldn't even do a pull-up until I was about 25 years old. I had a weak low back, weak hips, short arms, soft hands, long femurs (for my height) - basically built terribly for deadlifting. I've never touched any drug in my life, not even recreational ones. If I were to use drugs, I'd be pulling 4xBW right now.
Most of you guys here have no idea how to deadlift (to be specific to this thread). You may think you do, you copy form off youtube or some gym bro. but you don't know how to brace your abs, hinge your hips, drive your legs, build tension in your arms etc. Bet most of you don't even know what those things mean. If I were to show you the correct technique and train you for a couple of months, you'd probably pull 1.5x to 2x BW.
There are guys who have bigger pulls, who still suck at technique. I've been working with one who came to me with a 405lb pull at 155lb bodyweight, and his form sucked, he had no clue. A couple of weeks later, tonight he pulled 405lb x2 easily, and his low back pain is gone. He thought his low back sucked. What could be more likely was that his low back was overworked as he didn't know how to use his legs, abs, hips and lats properly.
Mage brought up training with just the bar. One big problem is that most of you start on routines like Starting Strength or Stronglift from the Internet and are told to add X pounds weekly or every session. When I train new people, I'm inspired by Chinese weightlifting system. They get to squat the stick until I'm satisfied with form. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't squat well with just the stick, putting weights on will not improve it. With deadlift, until they've learned hip hinge (from KB swings), ab bracing, lats locking and a whole bunch of high tension techniques, they will not deadlift anything off the floor.
Deadlift, squat etc. are not just strength builders, they are sport movements, which imply skill practice. If you have poor skill, you can't lift shit. If I were to take up baseball (never played in my life), I'd probably miss most of the swings, and if I were to think like you guys, I'd accuse anyone who can swing and hit the ball drug users because they're more skillful than me... See how ridiculous that is?
Anyway, this post isn't for you who have decided to quit deadlifting. It's true, you can get strong with other things. It is for others to read and think over. If you're going to use deadlift to build strength, learn the skill properly.