[Afarang]

So I am in my mid twenties, I work remotely and live in Thailand.

I currently have at least 24 months of savings to live on without needing to work and with my current job I save 66%~ of my salary. I earn anywhere between 2x-3x my monthly living costs each month. I work around 15-25 hours a week.

Now here is my 'problem'. While I have 'escaped' the rat-race I can't help but keep on working to save more money, it's almost like it's ingrained in me.

I am a minimalist person, I don't buy gadgets, luxuriously clothes, if you exclude airfare and gym costs, I can't remember the last time I spent more then $60 on anything.

So I am saving all this money and not doing anything with it. I don't even have any desire to spend it because I don't want anything. I am quite a content guy.

The Problem
So I am doing pretty well and happy with life overall, but I can't help think I am focusing too much time on saving money and not enough on truly living.

My biggest problem is figuring out right amount of savings to have in the bank before I reduce my hours and focus more on doing things, experiences and other things. How does one figure this out?

I would like to read more, help people, traveling more than I do, spending more time with friends, new experiences etc.

What's more, if I did fuck everything up I have a safety net to go back home. I don't plan on getting married or having children. I think I have job security for at least the next 2-4 years and I am smart so I don't think I will ever be out of work.

Thoughts?

Sorry if I come across as a bragging or boasting.

[WestIndianArchie]

I'm betting your looking for some advice to let you spend some of your stack, or work a little bit less.

But that nagging feeling you have IS RIGHT.

The problems?

1) job doesn't pay enough


That's why you don't feel confident enough to "live a little"

If you had 12x monthly expenses coming in every month, that means you could work for 5 months and have 5 years saved.

5 years of not having to change a thing about your life. (more like 3 years, because you'll freak out when you see that your stack is getting small)

Whatever math you feel comfortable with, you're going to be on the planet for at least another 50 years. You're not going to be secure until that 50 years is accounted for.

2) job requires your day to day effort

Even if it's only 25 hours a week, that's still 5 hours a day.
Most people who are at work 8 hours a day, really only work 5.

But that 5 hours is crucial.

And it sounds like YOU need to be doing that work, not someone else. Or someone you can delegate to.

So if you're not there to do the work, the income stream suffers.

So that's what you need to figure out, how do I pull myself out of the day to day production.

If you're in SEA, there are a lot of people working on these questions.

Increasing monthly income and decreasing day to day involvement with said income.

In the States, those people are called owners.

The guy that owns a few Subways isn't making sandwiches.
He isn't ordering meat.
He isn't interviewing "sandwich artists".

He has staff that does that. He doesn't need to the daily work, and his income is steady. What he works on is adding more assets to his pile.

Securing the financing from the bank for another Subway near a new suburb or new road is hard work, but it's not steady 20-25 hours per week, year in year out.

So you're right to be scared.
You need to rethink what you're doing so that you're truly free.

WIA

[RandomGuy1]

Have you taken a look into the "40 Guys only" thread? Maybe you can get some inspiration from their discussians.

A couple days ago I was browsing through it and something scared me. Those guys talk about how they regret that they didn't created an End-Game-Plan during there 20s/30s. Ooookay

Good luck!

[lavidaloca]

In fairness the guy who owns the subway had to save up substantial capital in the first place so at some point there is a high level of personal sacrifice.

I'm guessing OP has 24-48k saved based on his comments. I wouldn't recommend just living off that and not making any income as that will lead you back to square one.

If you are really unhappy maybe try to start a business using that seed money in a place you'd like to be.

[Cheetah]

Quote:

I currently have at least 24 months of savings to live on without needing to work and with my current job I save 66%~ of my salary. I earn anywhere between 2x-3x my monthly living costs each month. I work around 15-25 hours a week.

Ok, good. Now what did you say the problem was?

Quote:

Sorry if I come across as a bragging or boasting.

Doesn't that sentence imply that you actually are quite content with your situation?

If you work much less than what you do you might work too little and you won't enjoy your spare time as much. Perhaps you just need to realise that you have it quite good as it is and as have been said maybe you sometimes should buy yourself something that you would enjoy?

[Afarang]

@WIA, thanks for the comment.

1) But what would getting a job that pays me more money achieve, I will only have more money that I would not spend.

I think I have a mental problem more than a monetary problem. By getting more money I would work more hours which means I would do less things.

2) 1/3rd of my income is totally passive. Anything I actually work for goes straight into my savings, perhaps I should have made that clear.

I have no interest in starting a big business or anything like that. Seems like more work and less free time. I understand the concept you are trying ot make though


@RamdomGuy1 - I just read it, thanks some great comments.


@Lavidaloca - I have actually never been happier, but I have the feeling that I still have that one shackle left on my foot that I can't shake off. Or am I being way too picky and should be super grateful?

Not working is stupid I agree as I will be back to where I start, but should I just earn as much as I spend with a tiny bit extra to do what I enjoy while maintaining my live savings (not adding?).

Free time or more money is my battle - how should I allocate my time.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[Afarang]

(03-18-2015 04:40 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

Quote:

I currently have at least 24 months of savings to live on without needing to work and with my current job I save 66%~ of my salary. I earn anywhere between 2x-3x my monthly living costs each month. I work around 15-25 hours a week.

Ok, good. Now what did you say the problem was?

Quote:

Sorry if I come across as a bragging or boasting.

Doesn't that sentence imply that you actually are quite content with your situation?

If you work much less than what you do you might work too little and you won't enjoy your spare time as much. Perhaps you just need to realise that you have it quite good as it is and as have been said maybe you sometimes should buy yourself something that you would enjoy?

Never thought of it from this POV and I think you have pretty much nailed it for me. Odd because it is so simple but I never looked at it this way.

[WestIndianArchie]

(03-18-2015 04:22 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

In fairness the guy who owns the subway had to save up substantial capital in the first place so at some point there is a high level of personal sacrifice.

I'm guessing OP has 24-48k saved based on his comments. I wouldn't recommend just living off that and not making any income as that will lead you back to square one.

If you are really unhappy maybe try to start a business using that seed money in a place you'd like to be.

You can buy a functioning subway franchise for 50k. (In the Southern United States at least) I think Quizno's is even cheaper.

You can get that business loan with 10k of your own money. 40 from the bank.
That's not really years of scrimping saving. That's ~900 bucks a month for a year. That's doable for most middle class people.

Not to oversell the franchise model,
Most people buy 1 and end up buying a job.

The jump from owning 1 subway to several is the issue from being an employee to an owner.

I digress.

WIA

[lavidaloca]

I was of the impression between capital investment + franchising fee it was more in the 200k+ range. (I was incorrect)

Heres a site which suggests the start up price for subway.

"What are SUBWAY® restaurants Capital Requirements?
The total investment can range from $114,800 to $258,300 for traditional locations and $84,300 to $200,100 for non-traditional locations. This includes your franchise fee, construction and equipment costs as well as operating capital. Figures do not include extensive exterior renovations. These amounts represent the net investment required if you are eligible for the company's equipment leasing program. If you do not select the equipment leasing program or it is not available, you should substitute the costs for Equipment Lease Security Deposit with $49,500 to $72,000. We suggest that franchisees have half of the amount in cash and finance the other half. We prefer that a franchisee does not carry a large debt service."

http://www.subwaydevelopmentgroup.com/faq.html

That is admittedly less than I expected.

[samsamsam]

OP, do you think you could live like this forever?

What do you feel like you are really missing out on?

This expression sort of applies. It seems like you can live off your passive income if you had to.

Play first, work later. Work first, play later. Whatever you do last you do longest.

I think when a person is young he has more energy to build and create. It gets a little harder as you get older. I'd use your time to make sure you laid down a solid foundation that can survive unexpected financial hits.

But everyone values time and money differently. You have your own special happiness formula which is different than mine, and other guys have a version that is different from ours. Only you can figure out the right path for you.

[Marmite]

(03-18-2015 04:41 PM)Afarang Wrote:  

@Lavidaloca - I have actually never been happier, but I have the feeling that I still have that one shackle left on my foot that I can't shake off. Or am I being way too picky and should be super grateful?

Not working is stupid I agree as I will be back to where I start, but should I just earn as much as I spend with a tiny bit extra to do what I enjoy while maintaining my live savings (not adding?).

Free time or more money is my battle - how should I allocate my time.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Maybe take up an expensive hobby and see how you feel with earning the same amount, but spending more. Since you're not into material possessions, buy experiences instead. Do your dive master qualification, learn to fly a plane, etc.

[w00t]

it seems like right now your cash is just sitting around in a bank... that means with the low interest rate and inflation its actually decreasing in value

have you thought about investing it to generate more passive income? it would free up your time while at the same time giving you more cash

check out Tony Robbbins "Mony - Mastering the Game". Its not some woo woo motivational stuff but investment advice he compiled from the top guys in this field

[Brodiaga]

Afarang - just out of interest, what line of work are you in? Don't need details obviously, just curious what type of location independent work can allow saving 2/3 of income.

[WestIndianArchie]

(03-18-2015 05:17 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

I was of the impression between capital investment + franchising fee it was more in the 200k+ range. (I was incorrect)

Heres a site which suggests the start up price for subway.

"What are SUBWAY® restaurants Capital Requirements?
The total investment can range from $114,800 to $258,300 for traditional locations and $84,300 to $200,100 for non-traditional locations. This includes your franchise fee, construction and equipment costs as well as operating capital. Figures do not include extensive exterior renovations. These amounts represent the net investment required if you are eligible for the company's equipment leasing program. If you do not select the equipment leasing program or it is not available, you should substitute the costs for Equipment Lease Security Deposit with $49,500 to $72,000. We suggest that franchisees have half of the amount in cash and finance the other half. We prefer that a franchisee does not carry a large debt service."

http://www.subwaydevelopmentgroup.com/faq.html

That is admittedly less than I expected.

Here's one for 80k

Subway wants you to pay for the brand new place, but the used market is just as good.

Here's a Quizno's for 36K

I spent a while researching franchises, new and used. You'd be surprised how much some places cost (Panera, Chick-Fil-A) and how cheap sandwich places are. Buying a business is as difficult as buying a house, maybe more so, but it's not beyond the capability of people that can do basic algebra.

I get exposed to a fair amount of people making 6 and 7 figures, and how they make it always boggles my mind.

- scrap metal buyer/seller
- Tractor trailer sales
- tractor trailer refurb
- gravel
- staffing agencies
- nursing homes....
- office supplies supplier
- oil field services
- recycled clothing/fabric

The American education system and arguably American culture basically designs people to be employee/consumers, not employer/producers.

Now if only I could capitalize on something that I've come across.

WIA

[Saweeep]

^^^ In every sector, no matter how niche or outwardly strange, there is someone making serious money.

As for the OP, well, the problem is that you are too comfortable, in my opinion; it is blunting your ambition.

Perhaps I am mentally ill, but once per week I drive around the places nearby that have the £2mil houses etc to rebalance myself and my ambitions as often I can get a bit complacent. Seeing all the things I really want but cannot yet afford inspires me.

Inspires me to think big...really big.

[Buster]

I did the corporate gig for 30 years and have a stack I'll never deplete. The richest people I know owned their own businesses and were frugal with the investments/savings they put aside and never touched. Invest long term in appreciating assets. Gadgets weigh you down and depreciate, that nice TV can be bought next year with more features for less money. I have continued to mentor several of the guys/gals I used to work with and all will quit long before I did. I'm having lunch with one today.

Make a simple Excel spreadsheet to compute simple growth over time of your savings and graph the results. Leave the variables as interest rate (y) and savings value (z), ex first yr $25,000 x 1.y = x, for a y% return, next year is: x * 1.y + z = x (yr 2) and so on for a column of years. It is important to see and understand the power of compound interest in the out years and the need to save early and often. Investments grow on an exponential curve, they start flat, nature of the beast. Report back which year your nest egg earns more than your current income.

This little exercise should be done by everyone early in life, I wish I had. I could have retired a decade earlier, I can only try to help others understand my mistakes....YMMV

[el mechanico]

You can always just fly Ali-B over there he can teach you how to slack off and burn through cash like a pro.

[heavy]

I clicked this thread not having any idea what it was about. Just skimmed the OP. Better thread title (based on just glancing):

"Money: Mid-20's, Savings vs Spending"

[djjunior]

Hold up.

If Thailand is a great place to live and cost of living is cheap, there must be good business opportunities there?

I mean if you plan to live there for the next 5+ years, if it were me I would look into
Real Estate (I love land) , Local Industries trading on the stock exchange, starting a cafe, event promotion whatever to keep you busy on the side..?

When you find something to do, that you LOVE, then you wont feel so bored, and will actually meet people and make friends in that business your in.

my 2 cents

[Saweeep]

(03-19-2015 01:08 PM)djjunior Wrote:  

Hold up.

If Thailand is a great place to live and cost of living is cheap, there must be good business opportunities there?

I mean if you plan to live there for the next 5+ years, if it were me I would look into
Real Estate (I love land) , Local Industries trading on the stock exchange, starting a cafe, event promotion whatever to keep you busy on the side..?

When you find something to do, that you LOVE, then you wont feel so bored, and will actually meet people and make friends in that business your in.

my 2 cents

Thailand's a pain.

All sorts of laws about foreigners not owning real estate or businesses.

[Aliblahba]

(03-19-2015 12:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

You can always just fly Ali-B over there he can teach you how to slack off and burn through cash like a pro.

OP can contact me through my profile. Seeking Arrangement. I don't come cheap though.

[RandomGuy1]

@Afarang

Any updates from you side so far?