[Princeton]

This is from comments from a "feminist / gender studies blog" with an academic bent:

"Sure, feminism demonized male sexuality, but “No means No” also desexualized elements of the public sphere that were part of mating. A woman dancing at a club generally thinks her behavior means “Look at me, admire me, desire me, don’t touch me” and one of the things you see in the “No means No” West is the so-called “Line of Death”, men clutching drinks who don’t try to dance with any women. This is a learned helplessness response to rejection, since it’s unbelievably hard to initiate anything sexual when the woman believes (thanks to feminism) that her behavior is non-sexual, and she rebuffs sexual advances in the context of an activity that EVERY OTHER culture regards as a pre-mating display of sexuality."

[Roosh]

Can you translate that into english?

[North]

(05-09-2011 06:38 PM)Princeton Wrote:  

This is from comments from a "feminist / gender studies blog" with an academic bent:

"Sure, feminism demonized male sexuality, but “No means No” also desexualized elements of the public sphere that were part of mating. A woman dancing at a club generally thinks her behavior means “Look at me, admire me, desire me, don’t touch me” and one of the things you see in the “No means No” West is the so-called “Line of Death”, men clutching drinks who don’t try to dance with any women. This is a learned helplessness response to rejection, since it’s unbelievably hard to initiate anything sexual when the woman believes (thanks to feminism) that her behavior is non-sexual, and she rebuffs sexual advances in the context of an activity that EVERY OTHER culture regards as a pre-mating display of sexuality."

Do you understand the concept of sensuality? Do you realize thsat a woman can feel sensual and yet not want to bang every single man who looks at her? That is what you men need to come to understand. Feminism is not the evil thing that made it impossible for you to get some. You guys need to teach your big heads how to think and stop seeing women as simply a hole to put your little head into. It's a little more nuamced than that.

[Excelsior]

(05-09-2011 06:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Can you translate that into english?

I'll try.

What he's saying is that men are being forced to walk on eggshells around women because of the rise of feminism and female empowerment.

Before, an American woman who danced provocatively in the club was clearly indicating her intentions to mate(and, in most other cultures this is still the case).

Today, women believe in their right to engage in previous sexual behaviors(like said provocative dancing) in an entirely non-sexual way(read: they go out and dance provocatively for the attention, but have no intent of taking guys seriously or meeting anyone). This ability to sort of bend the rules(engage in the behavior minus the consequences) is "empowering", and women are "embracing their sexuality".

This, of course, makes it tough for the average guy. They want to make sexual advances because they naturally perceive her activity as welcoming that (and are aroused by it, as nature intended), but the women have other ideas and frequently shoot them down. They want to be looked at and desired, but never touched. The guys end up in kind of a no mans land: they are being tempted(teased) to approach, but can rarely successfully do so because the women don't seem to want it. They can no longer tell when or if the girls really do want to be approached or not, though they can see that more often than not they're getting blown out by girls who "just wanna dance".

This is a "no means no" culture, and these guys also know that there are severe consequences if they push and the girl doesn't like his presence (she can make a rape/sexual assault claim and potentially ruin his life). This causes guys to shy away even more and just not take chances. Eventually, the guys just quit approaching the girls in clubs, and stay off the dancefloor period. The return on investment is too low for them to continue putting in the effort to approach.

The women, of course, then get confused later on during the few times when they actually aren't trying to tease and really do want to just get to know a guy. They find the guys apprehensive and unwilling to approach them in many cases precisely because of their teasing behavior and the uncertainty its caused, though they themselves can't see their role in all of this. All they see are guys who seem to suddenly not want to bother with them, and they get confused.

Bottomline: Feminism has increased tensions between the sexes in the US and screwed gender dynamics up quite a bit by making men distrustful/apprehensive around women.

[Excelsior]

(05-09-2011 08:29 PM)North Wrote:  

Do you understand the concept of sensuality? Do you realize thsat a woman can feel sensual and yet not want to bang every single man who looks at her? That is what you men need to come to understand. Feminism is not the evil thing that made it impossible for you to get some. You guys need to teach your big heads how to think and stop seeing women as simply a hole to put your little head into. It's a little more nuamced than that.

We have no issue with the concept of sensuality. What we have issue with is the lack of understanding of the expectations put on men here.

Women want the right to redefine old rules that have stood(and, in most parts of the world, still stand) for most of human existence. They want to blatantly express their sexuality for all to see...and they want men to suppress their own sexuality at the same time by not bothering the girls as they let theirs blossom.

The yin and yang effect is being left out. When a woman openly expresses her sexuality, men naturally respond to it. Its not easy for a man to persist in an environment where sexuality is so openly displayed and he has no means with which to respond to it. Thus, an open and consequence free expression of female sexuality(consequence free meaning NO threat of approach or proposition from men) means some suppression of male sexuality, by definition.

*NOTE: When I say "bothering" or "respond" in referring to men interacting with women, I'm not talking about sexual assault or actual attempted rape. I'm talking about simple, ordinary approaches, benign in nature and intent, when I speak of male approaches that are being discouraged by women. Men are getting the idea that these women don't want anything to do with any of them, even in situations when they show decency.

Now, does this mean that I advocate for women to just screw every guy who approaches her in the club? No, I am not a sociopath.

What I do suggest, however, is a promotion of a greater understanding of how these two sexualities interact. Women should be more aware of how their sexuality affects men. As things stand, women seem to want the maintenance of the ability to go into a sexually charged nightlife environment filled with horny men by definition, and fully express their sexuality and ellicit attention without being bothered. They then get angry when they are bothered.

I suggest that they understand that if they want to guarantee that they are not bothered, they have to tone done the open displays of sexuality. If they do not, then men will continue to approach them, get between girls and their friends and bother them for drinks and dances until you tell them to go away. That's a natural male response, and its not going away.

I also suggest that, if women seek not to tone things down and continue expressing this sexuality openly as is while maintaining their desire to be left alone entirely by men as they do so, they not complain or show surprise when men quit approaching them. That too is a natural male response to consistent rejection.

[gringochileno]

It's probably a bad idea to feed the troll. Anyway, I don't see the difficulty of getting laid as a problem with feminism (quite the opposite--try racking up a triple-digit notch count in 1950's America). I think most guys' problem with it is that it's caused the female population to behave in masculine manner that's unattractive to most men, and understandably we prefer the company of women from cultures that promote attractive attitudes and behaviors (hint: it's not being a lawyer and wearing flip-flops). I don't really see the basis for complaining about girls being hard to approach, though. If anything, they'll bang quicker than ever provided you're alpha enough thanks largely to feminism. Quality control is a big issue though.

[Excelsior]

(05-09-2011 08:52 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

It's probably a bad idea to feed the troll.

I'm bored.

Quote:

If anything, they'll bang quicker than ever provided you're alpha enough thanks largely to feminism. Quality control is a big issue though.

That's the catch: feminism has also largely emasculated men and taught them to follow "the nice guy" route if they'd like a girl.

Thus, fewer and fewer guys are actually alpha enough.

Feminism thus creates more nice guys among men and then subsequently makes it much harder for them (in their "nice guy" state) to succeed. For the nice guys that feminism has created and encouraged, girls are now harder to approach. Its a rigged game or, as some have assumed, a "giant shit test" that very few men can see.

[Screwston]

Good job Anthlone. Fuck this feminism bullshit

[gringochileno]

(05-09-2011 08:57 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

[quote]Quote:

If anything, they'll bang quicker than ever provided you're alpha enough thanks largely to feminism. Quality control is a big issue though.

That's the catch: feminism has also largely emasculated men and taught them to follow "the nice guy" route if they'd like a girl.

Thus, fewer and fewer guys are actually alpha enough.

Feminism thus creates more nice guys among men and then subsequently makes it much harder for them to(in their "nice guy" state) to succeed. For the nice guys that feminism has created and encouraged, girls are now harder to approach. Its a rigged game or, as some have assumed, a "giant shit test" that very few men can see.

Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the beta provider strategy makes less sense in a world where women have similar earning power to men. Not that I don't think women should have the same social and economic opportunities as men, but the big contradiction is that feminism has encouraged guys to act act weak and beta at the same time as it's pulled the rug out from under every beta looking to land a quality girl. Combine that with the shift towards masculinity that we see in women (plus the obesity epidemic) and the result is a situation where you have a very small population of girls who are actually dateable and a larger but dwindling number of attractive yet not relationship-worthy women who ride the alpha cock carousel before settling down with a desperate beta who can't do any better once they're past their prime.

Ultimately I think it's men's responsibility to learn game and make the best of the situation, but I realize that most women I would actually want to date exclusively live in countries that feminist culture hasn't completely penetrated.

[tomtud]

Feminism has its plusses and minuses. Aside for equal pay for equal work is a given, I wanna focus on the social interaction part. Women can now act like men, get in your face all aggressive and even hit men (men don't hit back with the few exceptions) disrepect you and you can't do shit. If you do something, you may go to jail type of problem. I think women today have abused the rights that women have fought so hard for to manipulate the system in their favour. Every married man my age or so told me if you want to be bossed around, get married.

[North]

(05-09-2011 08:52 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

It's probably a bad idea to feed the troll. Anyway, I don't see the difficulty of getting laid as a problem with feminism (quite the opposite--try racking up a triple-digit notch count in 1950's America). I think most guys' problem with it is that it's caused the female population to behave in masculine manner that's unattractive to most men, and understandably we prefer the company of women from cultures that promote attractive attitudes and behaviors (hint: it's not being a lawyer and wearing flip-flops). I don't really see the basis for complaining about girls being hard to approach, though. If anything, they'll bang quicker than ever provided you're alpha enough thanks largely to feminism. Quality control is a big issue though.

So it's unattractive for a woman to be intelligent and pursue a career?

Flip flops are another matter entirely. I don't even get what your issue is with them. If a woman wears spike heels you bitch because she's leading you on with her blatant sexuality. She wears flip flops and you bitch because she's not sexy enough. Which is it?

And maybe if you hang out on the Jersey Shore you run into women who hit men. Good grief.

[gringochileno]

(05-09-2011 10:25 PM)North Wrote:  

So it's unattractive for a woman to be intelligent and pursue a career?

No that is not attractive. Intelligence a little bit but only up to the point that it's not painful to deal with the retarded things they say.

Quote:

Flip flops are another matter entirely. I don't even get what your issue is with them. If a woman wears spike heels you bitch because she's leading you on with her blatant sexuality. She wears flip flops and you bitch because she's not sexy enough. Which is it?

The latter. I'm really looking forward to going to Brazil this summer where hopefully I will see plenty of feminine women who like wearing dresses and heels.

Let me guess, you are a power suit-wearing, short-haired lawyer, mensa member, and about a 4 on the 1-10 scale and you secretly cry to yourself because you can't get a man.

[SFTD]

Feminism
Empowering women by screaming and bitching until we get our way!

also:

[North]

(05-09-2011 10:32 PM)SFTD Wrote:  

Feminism
Empowering women by screaming and bitching until we get our way!

also:

Wow. I wonder why you have to come to forum a like this one to try to figure out how to get some. And bitch about feminists in the process. LOL.

[North]

(05-09-2011 10:32 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(05-09-2011 10:25 PM)North Wrote:  

So it's unattractive for a woman to be intelligent and pursue a career?

No that is not attractive. Intelligence a little bit but only up to the point that it's not painful to deal with the retarded things they say.

Quote:

Flip flops are another matter entirely. I don't even get what your issue is with them. If a woman wears spike heels you bitch because she's leading you on with her blatant sexuality. She wears flip flops and you bitch because she's not sexy enough. Which is it?

The latter. I'm really looking forward to going to Brazil this summer where hopefully I will see plenty of feminine women who like wearing dresses and heels.

Let me guess, you are a power suit-wearing, short-haired lawyer, mensa member, and about a 4 on the 1-10 scale and you secretly cry to yourself because you can't get a man.

Married. Kids. Long hair. Look great in heels. Mensa member. Eat your heart out.

[Tuthmosis]

(05-10-2011 12:48 AM)North Wrote:  

Married. Kids. Long hair. Look great in heels. Mensa member. Eat your heart out.

Upload a picture of yourself and let us be the judge.

[Tony Snow25]

"Married. Kids. Long hair. Look great in heels. Mensa member. Eat your heart out."

What is a married woman doing on this board? I feel sorry for your children and the schmuck beta who would marry a woman who argues with random dudes on an all mens forum. Go watch oprah or play with your kids.

[Samseau]

ahahaha, this thread got horribly derailed by the femcunt.

However, I still gave it 1 star because there wasn't much of a topic to discuss in the first place. yes feminism allows women to believe they can eat their cake and have it too. we get it, this topic has been rehashed 1000 times all over the manosphere