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For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?
#1

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

What specific laws are on the books that make it such a huge financial and legal risk?

When precisely were they enacted?

"Marriage is for suckers" is a narrative that's been force fed to me my whole life, toddlerhood to adulthood, through peers and through mainstream media, so I have no idea when it all started to go downhill.
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#2

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Since roe vs. Wade.
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#3

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Two things come to mind: Divorce was liberalized in the late 1960s. Ironically, conservative icon Ronald Reagan helped push through one of the nation's first "no fault" divorce laws in California in 1969 I think (not sure about year). Since California is a big, progressive state, many smaller states followed suit. Until then, divorce couldn't be granted willy-nilly, like today's "frivorce". You actually had to prove fault, i.e. hire a private detective to prove your spouse was cheating. The "at fault" spouse was granted a better split of the marital assets, child custody, etc. The problem is, if two people were just sick of each other and mutually wanted to divorce, they couldn't! They had to stage some fake thing where the guy would pretend to be cheating and the woman would pretend to catch him. Reagan and early libertarians thought this was excessive, so they introduced "no fault" divorce: You could divorce because you wanted to. The problem, of course, is that the "mutually sick of each other" scenario is NOT the majority scenario. The majority of the time, its a woman who, with her child like nature, simply got bored with a perfectly good spouse. It would've been fine if they introduced no fault for MUTUAL divorces, i.e., both sides agree. But if one side wants to divorce and the other doesn't, simply dividing the property 50-50 (or, more typically, in favor of the woman) creates a moral hazard whereby the less wealthy and less well-behaved spouse can unilaterally steal from a richer, more well behaved spouse! And that's a HUGE part of the problem we have now: We don't have no fault divorce, we have unilateral-divorce-on-demand.

The SECOND major legal problem came in 1995, with Welfare Reform. Up through the 60's and 70's, liberals in Congress and state legislatures had created a welfare state, where the state simply cut you a check for being poor. The majority of recipients were women who had several bastards from unknown baby daddies. The state didn't care - you had kids, you got a check from the state. And men got checks, too. Which is why their was no incentive for inner city men to get jobs. And I knew quite a few black men in NYC in the early 1980s who worked off-the-books jobs for cash, and collected welfare checks. Invariably, these men were absent from work the 1st of the month - that's when the welfare checks came [Image: smile.gif] And THAT day was a big party! I'm not saying this mock the men; this was the incentive the government created and it was the smart thing for these people to do.

Both sides realized there was something amiss with this structure, so when Newt Gingrich and the GOP took over congress in the fall of 1994, they set in motion a series of steps to correct what they perceived a liberalism gone amuck. The problem is, in typical political fashion, they got the worst of both worlds! The GOP wanted the policy of handing out welfare checks to the poor to stop; they wanted personal responsibility and for these people to get work. The democrats needed some incentive to change the structure, however. They got it: Feminist groups insisted that, in exchange for requiring people (read: men) to WORK for their welfare checks, they would also put in place a requirement that women would HAVE to name their baby daddies, and instead of the GOVERNMENT writing checks to the women, the MEN would be forced to pay "child support". Everyone in congress loved it! The liberals and feminists got to punish men! The republicans got to beat their chests that they were standing up for "personal responsibility"! Problem was, it didn't work that well in practice: Women didn't always name their baby daddy - they named the wealthiest man they could accuse of being the baby daddy. Men had a right to appeal - but ONLY within a few months of the notice being mailed. Not being RECEIVED - being MAILED! So a woman would say "yeah, my baby daddy is John Smith and he lives at 123 Main St". Now, that would be HER address that he moved out from 8 months ago! As long as it was mailed to an address the person used to frequent, it counted. That, and the egregious payouts, and the fact that it replaced welfare checks to WOMEN (not WIC checks for children) tell you the whole thing is a scam and just a way to transfer money from women to men.

NOW, consider the two laws combined: Women can unilaterally divorce men, AND get a 50-50 or better split of that man's lifes savings, AND get a check from him for kids SHE gets custody of. What a deal!! Where can I sign up?? Oh, I can't because I have a penis? Bummer...
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#4

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

I would say about a century.
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#5

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

"The Great Society", which rewarded bastary. Rolled out in the mid-to-late 1960s.

"No Fault" Divorce being signed into law first in CA (mentioned above). Also in the mid-to-late 1960s.

Want to throw in "Roe v. Wade"? That's fine. That became Federal law in 1973. Prior to that, abortion was legal in about 30 states, so the skids were already greased.

Notice the common factor of the late 60s/early 70s timeframe? The seeds of ultra liberalism took ~45 years to grow into the destructive forces we see today.

They are so engrained in political system, the legal system and everyday life in general, that barring a complete reset, they'll never be contained, let alone controlled.

“….and we will win, and you will win, and we will keep on winning, and eventually you will say… we can’t take all of this winning, …please Mr. Trump …and I will say, NO, we will win, and we will keep on winning”.

- President Donald J. Trump
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#6

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

I used The Father's post as a starting point for 15 minutes of google research and came up with the following TL;DR:

In 1970, California passed the Family Law Act, which was the first time half-your-stuff divorce appeared as a law. Over the next 16 years it spread across the entire country, with each state signing its own version of half-your-stuff divorce onto its books. Every state has such a law, but the amount of red tape a divorcee has to cut through in order to claim assets from a divorce varies on a state by state basis.

Child support from individual parents has been on the books for a long time, further back than 1950. I can't trace it back to its origin. However, enforcement didn't start stepping up until 1965.

In 1965, Social Security Act Amendment 402(a)(11) was passed, which allowed certain civil bureaus access to personal information on parents who were refusing to pay child support.
In 1975, Social Security Amendment 451 was passed, which gave state governments a cut of child support money extracted from a parent.
In 1981, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act was passed, which lowers the amount of unemployment benefits that can be collected by a parent who owes child support.
In 1984, the Child Support Enforcement Amendments were passed, which allowed the federal government to seize several different kinds of property from parents who owe child support: State income tax refunds, real estate, and bonds. It also made it mandatory for state governments to garnish the wages of parents who owe child support.
In 1992, the Child Support Recovery Act was passed, which made it a felony not to pay child support, punishable by prison terms. The time at which non-payment becomes a felony is the time passed from mailing of the child support notice to whenever back payment exceeds $5,000.
In 1996, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act Sec. 313 was passed, which requires employers to report information about its new hires to state government bureaus. This has far reaching consequences beyond child support, but one of its effects is that every time a parent who owes child support gets hired for a job, all the information he signed on whatever paperwork he filled out is passed up to the government, thus giving away the parent's location and payment details to the powers that be.
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#7

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

I didn't do the research that draketton or The Father did, but I absolutely remember the mid 90's as being the time when "deadbeat dads" was a big way for politicians to win points and a lot of that legislation involving garnishment of wages came into effect.
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#8

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-16-2015 10:52 PM)RockHard Wrote:  

I didn't do the research that draketton or The Father did, but I absolutely remember the mid 90's as being the time when "deadbeat dads" was a big way for politicians to win points and a lot of that legislation involving garnishment of wages came into effect.

That's right. As Draketton notes, there were laws on the books before that dealing with child support, and those laws became increasingly powerful over time. But the big shift happened in the mid-90's, when the primary payer for husbandless women shifted from the government to MEN, with government now assuming the role of enforcer.

So we have the WORST of all prior regimes: We still have a presumption that women are innocent little victims who can't hold a job in this "man's world" and therefore men must cough up their life savings, plus alimony, plus child support. This despite the fact that women get 60% of college degrees! And we have this outdated view that women are better parents than men. And we ALSO have this draconian child support regime that makes getting "primary custody" a winfall for the women who inevitably get it. It all adds up to a HUGE transfer of wealth from men to women.

I always laugh when women today tell us how they are "strong, independent women". Without forced transfer payments from men, without de facto hiring quotas that means, as long as you have a vagina, you WILL be made a partner at prominent law firms and accounting firms over more qualified men. Without these things...women would lag FAR, FAR beyond men. Which is how nature constructed it: they are woefully inept at the things men excel at (and vice versa, for fair measure).
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#9

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

By the way: Since people on this thread seem to be interested in the details, the model used to calculate child support in most states (the Williams model) has long been shown to be flawed, and to greatly overstate the amount of support a woman needs. Which isn't surprising because, as it turns out, Mr. Williams PROFITS from all that money sloshing through the system! Outrageous...

http://www.fathermag.com/907/child-support/
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#10

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

I personally wouldn't feel confident having kids in the united states, but it is possible to overstate a problem. I've read that when both parents are college graduates the divorce rate is only 12%.

As a computer programmer, all the above research makes sense about the laws changing to make it legal to seize like crazy.

However, state governments have the worst computer programmers because of low pay, so I think until 2000 or later-- until all the states and courts all communicate with each other-- could they more or less instantly track you down and know what you're making if you're working on the books.

it's probably a net income stream for the states, so it will never change.
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#11

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

What's worse is that if the two people divorcing have kids then the state automatically gets involved. Even if neither party is asking for child support the state still requires both parties to state their income and then divide it using an arbitrary formula. Even if the husband is left with all of the debt including a mortgage that is not taken into account when the state divides up the money. Wife walks Scott free of debt and still gets paid. There are ways around it, I've been there and came out very well with no child support payments. But despite all of this and how it sounds in the end women are no happier for it. The system isn't about what's right or wrong, it's about winners and losers. You can win guys! In my case, my bank re did the terms of my mortgage based on hardship because of the divorce saving me a lot of money. I paid her nothing, kept my home, have my kid an equal portion of time and upgraded to a hot chick 13 years younger.
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#12

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Marriage isn't a bad deal for alpha men. Most guys I know that get divorce raped are punk ass bitches anyways, and deserve what they got. I have plenty of friends that got paid to leave, got full custody of the kids, don't pay alimony, kept the house, ect. It's all about frame.
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#13

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-17-2015 10:33 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Marriage isn't a bad deal for alpha men. Most guys I know that get divorce raped are punk ass bitches anyways, and deserve what they got. I have plenty of friends that got paid to leave, got full custody of the kids, don't pay alimony, kept the house, ect. It's all about frame.

Care to elaborate further, Ali?

G
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#14

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Consider that Mencken wrote this scathing criticism of women and marriage in 1922 in his book In Defense of Women. He puts the timeframe at around a 100-120 years:

This was not always the case. No more than a century ago, even by American law, the most sentimental in the world, the husband was the head of the family firm, lordly and autonomous. He had authority over the purse-strings, over the children, and even over his wife. He could enforce his mandates by appropriate punishment, including the corporal. His sovereignty and dignity were carefully guarded by legislation, the product of thousands of years of experience and ratiocination. He was safeguarded in his self-respect by the most elaborate and efficient devices, and they had the support of public opinion.

Consider, now, the changes that a few short years have wrought. Today, by the laws of most American states—laws proposed, in most cases, by maudlin and often notoriously extravagant agitators, and passerby sentimental orgy—all of the old rights of the husband have been converted into obligations. He no longer has any control over his wife's property; she may devote its income to the family or she may squander that income upon idle follies, and he can do nothing. She has equal authority in regulating and disposing of the children, and in the case of infants, more than he. There is no law compelling her to do her share of the family labour: she may spend her whole time in cinema theatres or gadding about the shops an she will. She cannot be forced to perpetuate the family name if she does not want to. She cannot be attacked with masculine weapons, e.g., fists and firearms, when she makes an assault with feminine weapons, e.g., snuffling, invective and sabotage. Finally, no lawful penalty can be visited upon her if she fails absolutely, either deliberately or through mere incapacity, to keep the family habitat clean, the children in order, and the victuals eatable.

Now view the situation of the husband. The instant he submits to marriage, his wife obtains a large and inalienable share in his property, including all he may acquire in future; in most American states the minimum is one-third, and, failing children, one-half. He cannot dispose of his real estate without her consent; He cannot even deprive her of it by will. She may bring up his children carelessly and idiotically, cursing them with abominable manners and poisoning their nascent minds against him, and he has no redress. She may neglect her home, gossip and lounge about all day, put impossible food upon his table, steal his small change, pry into his private papers, hand over his home to the Periplaneta americana, accuse him falsely of preposterous adulteries, affront his friends, and lie about him to the neighbours—and he can do nothing. She may compromise his honour by indecent dressing, write letters to moving-picture actors, and expose him to ridicule by going into politics—and he is helpless.
Let him undertake the slightest rebellion, over and beyond mere rhetorical protest, and the whole force of the state comes down upon him. If he corrects her with the bastinado or locks her up, he is good for six months in jail. If he cuts off her revenues, he is incarcerated until he makes them good. And if he seeks surcease in flight, taking the children with him, he is pursued by the gendarmerie, brought back to his duties, and depicted in the public press as a scoundrelly kidnapper, fit only for the knout. In brief, she is under no legal necessity whatsoever to carry out her part of the compact at the altar of God, whereas he faces instant disgrace and punishment for the slightest failure to observe its last letter. For a few grave crimes of commission, true enough, she may be proceeded against. Open adultery is a recreation that is denied to her. She cannot poison her husband. She must not assault him with edged tools, or leave him altogether, or strip off her few remaining garments and go naked. But for the vastly more various and numerous crimes of omission—and in sum they are more exasperating and intolerable than even overt felony—she cannot be brought to book at all.

The scene I depict is American, but it will soon extend its horrors to all Protestant countries. The newly enfranchised women of every one of them cherish long programs of what they call social improvement, and practically the whole of that improvement is based upon devices for augmenting their own relative autonomy and power. The English wife of tradition, so thoroughly a femme covert, is being displaced by a gadabout, truculent, irresponsible creature, full of strange new ideas about her rights, and strongly disinclined to submit to her husband's authority, or to devote herself honestly to the upkeep of his house, or to bear him a biological sufficiency of heirs. And the German Hausfrau, once so innocently consecrated to Kirche, Kche und Kinder, is going the same way.
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#15

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Getting married is similar to a job interview. If you walk in reeking of desperation because you're unemployed, broke, you speak softly, slouch, ect., your future boss is gonna run you over. You're a bitch from day one. Beta males get married out of desperation, and the women know it. They are simply providers and get used.

When you set yourself up successfully, your future wife will know you have options, even after marriage. She will continue to qualify to you. Just like in the workplace, if your boss knows you are constantly getting offers from competitors, he will continue handing out raises and promotions.

TL;DR

Get your shit together before getting married.
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#16

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-17-2015 02:45 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I personally wouldn't feel confident having kids in the united states, but it is possible to overstate a problem. I've read that when both parents are college graduates the divorce rate is only 12%.

I dunno. I know a LOT of guys with advanced degrees married to women who are doctors, lawyers etc...and who were frivorced. Myself included. In fact, when a chick has her own money, she is more free to do whatever the hell she wants. So I'm not sure this is a such a reliable indicator.
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#17

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-17-2015 10:56 AM)SheriffBart Wrote:  

Consider that Mencken wrote this scathing criticism of women and marriage in 1922 in his book In Defense of Women. He puts the timeframe at around a 100-120 years:

This was not always the case. No more than a century ago, even by American law, the most sentimental in the world, the husband was the head of the family firm, lordly and autonomous. He had authority over the purse-strings, over the children, and even over his wife. He could enforce his mandates by appropriate punishment, including the corporal. His sovereignty and dignity were carefully guarded by legislation, the product of thousands of years of experience and ratiocination. He was safeguarded in his self-respect by the most elaborate and efficient devices, and they had the support of public opinion.

Consider, now, the changes that a few short years have wrought. Today, by the laws of most American states—laws proposed, in most cases, by maudlin and often notoriously extravagant agitators, and passerby sentimental orgy—all of the old rights of the husband have been converted into obligations. He no longer has any control over his wife's property; she may devote its income to the family or she may squander that income upon idle follies, and he can do nothing. She has equal authority in regulating and disposing of the children, and in the case of infants, more than he. There is no law compelling her to do her share of the family labour: she may spend her whole time in cinema theatres or gadding about the shops an she will. She cannot be forced to perpetuate the family name if she does not want to. She cannot be attacked with masculine weapons, e.g., fists and firearms, when she makes an assault with feminine weapons, e.g., snuffling, invective and sabotage. Finally, no lawful penalty can be visited upon her if she fails absolutely, either deliberately or through mere incapacity, to keep the family habitat clean, the children in order, and the victuals eatable.

Now view the situation of the husband. The instant he submits to marriage, his wife obtains a large and inalienable share in his property, including all he may acquire in future; in most American states the minimum is one-third, and, failing children, one-half. He cannot dispose of his real estate without her consent; He cannot even deprive her of it by will. She may bring up his children carelessly and idiotically, cursing them with abominable manners and poisoning their nascent minds against him, and he has no redress. She may neglect her home, gossip and lounge about all day, put impossible food upon his table, steal his small change, pry into his private papers, hand over his home to the Periplaneta americana, accuse him falsely of preposterous adulteries, affront his friends, and lie about him to the neighbours—and he can do nothing. She may compromise his honour by indecent dressing, write letters to moving-picture actors, and expose him to ridicule by going into politics—and he is helpless.
Let him undertake the slightest rebellion, over and beyond mere rhetorical protest, and the whole force of the state comes down upon him. If he corrects her with the bastinado or locks her up, he is good for six months in jail. If he cuts off her revenues, he is incarcerated until he makes them good. And if he seeks surcease in flight, taking the children with him, he is pursued by the gendarmerie, brought back to his duties, and depicted in the public press as a scoundrelly kidnapper, fit only for the knout. In brief, she is under no legal necessity whatsoever to carry out her part of the compact at the altar of God, whereas he faces instant disgrace and punishment for the slightest failure to observe its last letter. For a few grave crimes of commission, true enough, she may be proceeded against. Open adultery is a recreation that is denied to her. She cannot poison her husband. She must not assault him with edged tools, or leave him altogether, or strip off her few remaining garments and go naked. But for the vastly more various and numerous crimes of omission—and in sum they are more exasperating and intolerable than even overt felony—she cannot be brought to book at all.

The scene I depict is American, but it will soon extend its horrors to all Protestant countries. The newly enfranchised women of every one of them cherish long programs of what they call social improvement, and practically the whole of that improvement is based upon devices for augmenting their own relative autonomy and power. The English wife of tradition, so thoroughly a femme covert, is being displaced by a gadabout, truculent, irresponsible creature, full of strange new ideas about her rights, and strongly disinclined to submit to her husband's authority, or to devote herself honestly to the upkeep of his house, or to bear him a biological sufficiency of heirs. And the German Hausfrau, once so innocently consecrated to Kirche, Kche und Kinder, is going the same way.

So I was right. About a century.
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#18

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-17-2015 11:49 PM)The Father Wrote:  

Quote: (02-17-2015 02:45 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I personally wouldn't feel confident having kids in the united states, but it is possible to overstate a problem. I've read that when both parents are college graduates the divorce rate is only 12%.

I dunno. I know a LOT of guys with advanced degrees married to women who are doctors, lawyers etc...and who were frivorced. Myself included. In fact, when a chick has her own money, she is more free to do whatever the hell she wants. So I'm not sure this is a such a reliable indicator.

In America, the divorce rate for women with a Bachelor's degree is 1 in 4, and 1 in 5 for women with post-grad degrees. Safe to assume they're mostly marrying men of similar or better education. Well educated people's divorce rates have been declining for decades, there's been a gigantic class divergence on this and many other social indicators. The upper-middle and upper classes have been doing better and better while everyone else has continued the decline that began in the 60's. Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve) wrote a good book about this topic: Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010.
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#19

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-17-2015 11:49 PM)The Father Wrote:  

Quote: (02-17-2015 02:45 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I personally wouldn't feel confident having kids in the united states, but it is possible to overstate a problem. I've read that when both parents are college graduates the divorce rate is only 12%.

I dunno. I know a LOT of guys with advanced degrees married to women who are doctors, lawyers etc...and who were frivorced. Myself included. In fact, when a chick has her own money, she is more free to do whatever the hell she wants. So I'm not sure this is a such a reliable indicator.

Here is a prime example of the difference between statistical information and anecdotal information.

I'm the King of Beijing!
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#20

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-17-2015 11:49 PM)The Father Wrote:  

Quote: (02-17-2015 02:45 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I personally wouldn't feel confident having kids in the united states, but it is possible to overstate a problem. I've read that when both parents are college graduates the divorce rate is only 12%.

I dunno. I know a LOT of guys with advanced degrees married to women who are doctors, lawyers etc...and who were frivorced. Myself included. In fact, when a chick has her own money, she is more free to do whatever the hell she wants. So I'm not sure this is a such a reliable indicator.

I wonder if doctoral/law/advanced degrees in Anglosphere might be worse than a BA.

Nietzsche said something like women with an academic bent have sexual problems.
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#21

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

5 years ago I went through the toughest times in my life. We almost lost everything. I had to bust my ass, humiliate myself over and over again, and do everything possible to keep my family in one piece and under one roof. When I was doing all that, what do you think my wife was doing? Bitching, moaning and fucking someone else she got a crush on and was texting while I was working.
Bitches will push the sword in deeper when you are down. They have no sympathy for a man trying to get shit done. EVER. A woman never has your back.
Did I file for divorce? No. Did I settle up? Yes.
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#22

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Quote: (02-18-2015 03:07 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

Quote: (02-17-2015 11:49 PM)The Father Wrote:  

Quote: (02-17-2015 02:45 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I personally wouldn't feel confident having kids in the united states, but it is possible to overstate a problem. I've read that when both parents are college graduates the divorce rate is only 12%.

I dunno. I know a LOT of guys with advanced degrees married to women who are doctors, lawyers etc...and who were frivorced. Myself included. In fact, when a chick has her own money, she is more free to do whatever the hell she wants. So I'm not sure this is a such a reliable indicator.

In America, the divorce rate for women with a Bachelor's degree is 1 in 4, and 1 in 5 for women with post-grad degrees. Safe to assume they're mostly marrying men of similar or better education. Well educated people's divorce rates have been declining for decades, there's been a gigantic class divergence on this and many other social indicators. The upper-middle and upper classes have been doing better and better while everyone else has continued the decline that began in the 60's. Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve) wrote a good book about this topic: Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010.

I'm very skeptical of these stats and suspect they only hold true for last generation. For Millennials I doubt college educated women will avoid divorce once they're done using their men.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

Be sure to check out the easiest mining program around, FreedomXMR.
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#23

For how long has marriage been a bad deal in the U.S?

Samseau is correct.

A lot of the data is based on older, conservative people's marriages. You can't assume millennials will have the same sensibility and loyalty older people did. Even like a 45 year old spinster still grew up when society had more conservative elements to it, even if theyre not aware of how that affects their behavior. Young women have no such qualms.

Once older, conservative people die off the instability will only increase. There will be no large family unit to fall back on like there always has been. Millennial women don't give a fuck about anything other than themselves, you have to be a sucker to marry one.
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