[Flint]

If this has already been discussed in another place on the forum this one can be closed, but I couldn't find a similar thread title.

Member RawGod once made an interesting comment in the Armenia thread:

Quote:

The biggest contradiction around here is the desire for traditional, feminine, non-slutty women but to be able to pump and dump them.

I always wondered the same. The majority of the forum is conservative leaning: traditional family models and femine women who keep themselves pretty and don't ride the cock carousel are respected and celebrated. There is a lot of nostalgia around here for a 1950s style society.

At the same time, a lot of users complain about girls not putting out, women being picky on datingsites, sausagefests in clubs, etc. Not surprisingly, there is the universal desire for nice and friendly girls who give us the sex we need without too much LMR or ensuing drama, so we can easily move on to the next target.

But aren't the women we need to maintain our promiscuous lifestyle diametrically opposed to the traditional society many here seem to wish for?

This point is not new, yet I think it is legitimate one.

Since I'm not a conservative and don't need a traditional society, I'd be happy to hear a coherent and sound response to this kind of criticism.

No trolling here, just curious for good arguments if there are any.

[WestIndianArchie]

There are people here for the Game
And people here for the Manosphere.

You'll quickly discover who is who.

WIA

[britchard]

Good post. It's something I've also thought about, and I also agree with WIA. It's clear after a while who's here pretty much purely for game and who is here for the manosphere as well.

[kaotic]

Keep a legitimate feminine girl and fuck sluts on the side ? That's how I usually do it.

[The Lizard of Oz]

There is no need to justify it. Men want to have it all, the best of all worlds. We want a girl to act like a whore and a slut to us, and like a prude to everyone else; sometimes this can even be achieved in reality when you get a girl young, lock her down and train her right.

In sane traditional societies, these functions were somewhat separated; there was a reservoir of marriageable "good girls" that at least kept up appearances of being modest and chaste, and a reservoir of sluts and whores to fool around with before, while, and after chasing and marrying the good girl.

And that is as it should be; that strikes the right human balance. Never mind that some of the "good girls" would be the ones sneaking out at night to suck off the village thug in the hayloft, or else be actual prudes and harridans once they've secured the ring; or that some few of the sluts and whores really do have the proverbial heart of gold as well as the choice luscious bubble popping out of their skirts or more recently jeans. The whole setup was never easy and never guaranteed anyone's happiness in either the short or the long term, no matter what the would-be "patriarchy" nostalgia mongers would like to claim. But it had some basic sanity and that is all one can ask for.

Now, the reservoir of marriageables in the West has appeared to shrink to almost nothing; and too many of the sluts are inked up, either fat or masculine/excessively athletic, and absurdly cunty and available only to pinnacle alphas and bad boys. That is not a recipe for male happiness or sanity. It is also true that through the miracles of superior nutrition and American dentistry percolating through the rest of the world, there is more luscious young pussy, especially the deliriously succulent white/black, white/hispanic and white/Asian blends, than ever before; but for your typical guy that is only a case of water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink. And now it's getting so even looking at this pussy is borderline criminal or makes you a "creep" -- unless of course you are the kind of alpha or natural who just takes it as a matter of course.

None of this is changing anytime soon, and none of it signifies the end of the world or of Western civ, either. The world in almost every way is a more interesting, exciting, various and lively place than it's ever been; but the sexual marketplace in the west is in a funny and unfortunate state, and the men who bemoan it are not wrong to do so.

I hope this explains everything.

[PittFighter]

(02-12-2015 04:23 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

There are people here for the Game
And people here for the Manosphere.

You'll quickly discover who is who.

WIA

FUCK YEAH

[FlyBoy]

(02-12-2015 04:52 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

I hope this explains everything

It does, thank you Sir!

To me, I think of it this way: A traditional society is the only environment where a family can thrive. A family, is the incubator of the next generation. If society want to continue as a going concern, then traditionalism is the only way. Period.

Since I can not change a society that doesn't want to change, that leaves me with one of two options:

1. Withdraw from society.
2. Stay and try to enjoy the decline.

Do I need to tell you which one was my choice ... lol

[Apollo]

I've had the same thoughts for awhile, mainly because this question seems to subtly present itself in a lot of threads and is also arguably the difference between what you read in the Game sub-forum (Game-centric) and the Everything Else sub-forum. (Manosphere heavy)

I think that you've presented the contradiction effectively, now we just need to figure out whether these ideas are mutually exclusive.

When you think about it, this question is the main reason that PUAs, MRAs, and MGTOWs despise each other and why men (as an identity group) have not been able to mount an effective united front against feminism. There are just different and competing priorities/philosophies at play.

[germanico]

You keep wishing for easier bangs.

I aspire to be able to handle increasingly harder bangs.

[Travesty]

I only go through with bangs to train myself to handle higher and higher quality girls and keep my frame straight.

If I didn't feel like this was required to get the quality I want I wouldn't do it. If an 8 that was younger, was easily attracted, and faithful without having to spin plates and prove I am the bigger better deal constantly then I'd call it a life.

[LINUX]

Yes sir. Everyone here has their purpose. I'm here because I enjoy traveling, partying, and banging hot Latin women. I can't help anyone be successful, peaceful, alpha, red-pillish, ethical, or find any sort of meaning in life. I bring nothing to the table except how to get laid and maybe a shoot a rifle straight, or smoke a cigar correctly.

[Apollo21]

You just have to decide what you want more of.

Although it is pretty hypocritical and ridiculous to call a woman
a slut if a guy is doing exactly the same thing she is...looking for easy scores.

I see it as a baseball game...sometimes you want to
hit home runs and play the field and sometimes you're
on the bench. That's just life.

[Dalaran1991]

Quote:

The biggest contradiction around here is the desire for traditional, feminine, non-slutty women but to be able to pump and dump them.

I disagree.

We never chose the player life. The player life forces itself on us.

I bet my ass the majority of men here would be willing to shake off the player's lifestyle if they manage to find one such feminine traditional girl AND they have society's insurance and reward/punishment system to encourage her fidelity.

But because that's a dream long lost, we are left with the only choice of pumping and dumping sluts until we run into such a girl.

And then there's no fucking insurance that the girl will not leave you at a moment's notice. People vastly more skilled than me can attest to this. So to keep your skills honed and your insurance plan ready you also have no choice but to game girls on the side, ready for that moment when your "feminine" girl goes werewolf and monkey branching out.

Dating/LTR is a fucking game of prisoner's dilemma these days. Both side wants to protect his/her own ass and are afraid the other will squeal. So they squeal first to keep their options open.

[LINUX]

(02-12-2015 07:06 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Quote:

The biggest contradiction around here is the desire for traditional, feminine, non-slutty women but to be able to pump and dump them.

I disagree.

We never chose the player life. The player life forces itself on us.

I bet my ass the majority of men here would be willing to shake off the player's lifestyle if they manage to find one such feminine traditional girl AND they have society's insurance and reward/punishment system to encourage her fidelity.

But because that's a dream long lost, we are left with the only choice of pumping and dumping sluts until we run into such a girl.

And then there's no fucking insurance that the girl will not leave you at a moment's notice. People vastly more skilled than me can attest to this. So to keep your skills honed and your insurance plan ready you also have no choice but to game girls on the side, ready for that moment when your "feminine" girl goes werewolf and monkey branching out.

Dating/LTR is a fucking game of prisoner's dilemma these days. Both side wants to protect his/her own ass and are afraid the other will squeal. So they squeal first to keep their options open.

Speak for yourself man. I chose my lifestyle. The leave it to beaver lifestyle isn't for me.

[Carlos100]

It's not necessarily a contradiction to want women to be more prudish and traditional, yet try to bang as many of them as possible. Neil Strauss actually covered this apparent dichotomy in The Game. When he found a woman he really liked and they became girlfriend and boyfriend (I don't remember her name, the girl from Courtney Love's band) she asked him why he had to use game if all he really wanted was a monogamous relationship with a good woman. He said something to the effect of, "You don't understand, if I didn't know and use game, I wouldn't have been able to approach you and give you a chance to be attracted to me."

We use game for different reasons, but one of those reasons for some of us IS to find a quality woman with which to have a long term relationship. However, in order to have good game we have to practice it, which means seducing women who don't meet our standards for a monogamous partner. Also, until we find a quality woman, we have to be successful with women, as that is a key ingredient for helping a man have supreme self-confidence and self-assurance.

[Apollo]

(02-12-2015 07:02 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  

You just have to decide what you want more of.

Although it is pretty hypocritical and ridiculous to call a woman
a slut if a guy is doing exactly the same thing she is...looking for easy scores.

I see it as a baseball game...sometimes you want to
hit home runs and play the field and sometimes you're
on the bench. That's just life.

Using your logic to compare sexual outcomes between men and women, by your own example, is analogous to comparing the accomplishments of a tee-ball player and Mike Trout. One is hitting a stationary ball off of a tee while the other has to hit a 93 mph slider over 300 feet.

A woman who so wantonly uses her sexual equity to secure zero commitment from men is judged as a slut (mainly by other women, which is important because it demonstrates collective psychology), because she has received nothing of value for services rendered in the sexual market.

If girls were so intent on getting laid, then they would be men, and quality of dick would not matter at the end of the night so long as they were leaving with someone. The reality is that you have to meet some minimum threshold of standards, even if she has zero redeemable qualities. Game is about doing what it takes to possess these qualities or mimicking them long enough to get the bang.

The separation in viewpoint comes in because men begin to resent the fact that they have to pay a toll to get bottom of the barrel pussy, and that a woman's standards seem to be increasing even when her inherent value remains the same, or if you're in the U.S., plummets to new lows. We're getting to a point where sexual access has begun to consolidate among the male population, and an unsettling large underclass of unfuckable, entitled hambeasts and beta males has developed that is undermining the stability of our society.

I don't pretend to know the solution to this, I just know that current male outlets (PUA, MRA, MGTOW) are entirely incapable of solving these problems.

[TravelerKai]

I will keep it short. Learn the way the world works, have fun, improve, and grow. When you are ready for the next level, you will know what to look for and where to find it. I just watched an episode of First 48 and a good looking guy who would do well abroad got shot, and his girlfriend looked like trash. What a waste. Won't be you guys though.

I had my fun before I took myself out of the game. You guys, especially the younger ones, should as well until you are ready.

When that itch starts you will know and respond accordingly. Or not. It's up to you guys.

Eventually there will be a group of fathers here. Like Roosh said we are going to grow old together as a manosphere group. I say enjoy each other's company and learn from each other. Run your race, never another man's.

[Menace]

(02-12-2015 09:19 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Eventually there will be a group of fathers here.

Some of us are already there (with you). Can you imagine a "Fathers" sub-forum on RVF? My god, what a crazy day that will be. We going to be trading recipes and 5 Ways To French Braid Your Daughters Hair So She Doesn't Turn Into a Slut?

Game is like a stellar cycle. When young, you burn bright, and want a lot of pussy. As you get older and become a red giant, you tend to be more selective. You may have a main girl, and a little on the side. Eventually you may just want a main girl. Our personalities, and arguably our identities, change we time. You are not who you will be. Of course not all men are like this, but it does seem to proceed this way for many.

[TravelerKai]

(02-12-2015 09:30 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 09:19 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Eventually there will be a group of fathers here.

Some of us are already there (with you). Can you imagine a "Fathers" sub-forum on RVF? My god, what a crazy day that will be. We going to be trading recipes and 5 Ways To French Braid Your Daughters Hair So She Doesn't Turn Into a Slut?

Game is like a stellar cycle. When young, you burn bright, and want a lot of pussy. As you get older and become a red giant, you tend to be more selective. You may have a main girl, and a little on the side. Eventually you may just want a main girl. Our personalities, and arguably our identities, change we time. You are not who you will be. Of course not all men are like this, but it does seem to proceed this way for many.

Spot on.

We will need all the brainstorming and help we can get to raise kids redpill. I look forward to the collaboration we can achieve.

[Pontifex Maximus]

(02-12-2015 09:30 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 09:19 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Eventually there will be a group of fathers here.

Some of us are already there (with you). Can you imagine a "Fathers" sub-forum on RVF? My god, what a crazy day that will be. We going to be trading recipes and 5 Ways To French Braid Your Daughters Hair So She Doesn't Turn Into a Slut?

In true RVF fashion, the "Youngsters" section will have the ever so classic "5 More Techniques To Pull Her Hair During Sex".

And of course other related gems:

All Girls Like Rough Sex by Tuthmosis

[Col. Tigh]

(02-12-2015 09:30 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 09:19 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Eventually there will be a group of fathers here.

Some of us are already there (with you). Can you imagine a "Fathers" sub-forum on RVF? My god, what a crazy day that will be. We going to be trading recipes and 5 Ways To French Braid Your Daughters Hair So She Doesn't Turn Into a Slut?

Game is like a stellar cycle. When young, you burn bright, and want a lot of pussy. As you get older and become a red giant, you tend to be more selective. You may have a main girl, and a little on the side. Eventually you may just want a main girl. Our personalities, and arguably our identities, change we time. You are not who you will be. Of course not all men are like this, but it does seem to proceed this way for many.

Hear, hear. I'm over half-way through my career in the Game, and I'm in total agreement.

[Seamus]

It's definitely a contradiction that I've seen play out on a lot of the threads in this forum, and something I've thought about myself. I've found a explanation that works for me though.

First off, I love sluts and traditional girls equally, and I need both in my life. Girls like to have fun too, and some love sleeping around almost as much as men do. God bless 'em, they make for great nights. I don't judge these girls, I just recognize them for what they are.

My rule is simple: I treat girls with exactly the same amount of respect they treat me. I bang slutty girls and enjoy the hell out of it, and I have no problem ditching them afterwards. But I seek out the traditionally feminine girls for the relationships, and I treat them accordingly. She cooks me dinner and tries her best to please me, I open doors and surprise her with flowers, etc. There's no entitlement. The moment she stops holding up her end of the bargain, I stop holding up mine.

If you live this way, you can enjoy both types of girls without feeling conflicted. Don't judge, just recognize a girl for what she is and treat her accordingly. Everybody wins.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

The US 1940s and 1950s or some European countries back then are a good framework.

+ Most married young with little sex before marriage or as virgins
+ Sluts/loose women were still around
+ Players had either to be part of the Secret Society (neglected married women), were mostly focusing on sluts or paying for sex.
+ Prostitutes were a lot more plentiful in the US & UK. Estimates range that in comparison to the general population there were 400% more prostitutes/ per 1000 men than today. Why? Simple - the average man had to pay to get his rocks off. Even wealthy men or Players with Game had to pay from time to time or keep paid mistresses. That was the price to be paid for a sane society.

Of course we want to be able to fuck every girl as men, but prefer our daughters and wives not to do it at the same time. That is the masculine imperative.

But we understand that for society to exist well, a balance has to be struck. Muslim countries are overdoing it putting such restrictions on heterosexual sex that men have to become prison-like-homosexuals. Currently the Western ones are getting crazy too by allowing women to go wild - a society consisting mainly of sluts is a recipe for disaster. Despite our willingness to fuck the sluts, most of us know fully well that it is bad for civilization. Since we know, that we cannot change things, we are not going to leave all that ass pounding to other men. Enjoy the Decline!

[Pride male]

Polygyny. I think man in his natural state should have multiple wives. This serves both needs for variety and for a loyal wife. Is monogamy laregely a European concept? Because in most parts of the world polygyny is considered normal.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(02-13-2015 05:54 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

Polygyny. I think man in his natural state should have multiple wives. This serves both needs for variety and for a loyal wife. Is monogamy laregely a European concept? Because in most parts of the world polygyny is considered normal.

No - polygamy is crap when done constitutionally. Then you are left with primitive cultures where the top dogs have hundreds of wives, their next-in line have dozens or at least two and 60% are left with nothing but the occasional prostitute. There was a good reason why Columbus and a few individually motivated men were able to overpower the Aztecs which surpassed them 100.000 to one. If most of your men consist of sex-less dip-shits, then their average motivation to succeed was about as enthusiastic as a hamster's desire to go to the moon.

If you want to live in the middle ages then go ahead. Our "natural" state is to live in caves and clad ourselves in furs.

Also poly-amory and matriarchal cultures are crap. They are static, anti-science, anti-development and were mostly wiped out by patriarchal societies. The Muslim faith only had a necessity for polygamy in the early stages, because there was a surplus of women due to all the wars they waged.

Such temporal polygamy is not so bad and it won't hurt if a few men get more women. But doing it systematically? You might as well go back to the caves.