[rudebwoy]

As you read through this thread you realize that shoulder injuries are common and should be avoided if possible.

Once injured it never becomes the same.

[civpro]

I've been lifting for 2 years now. My plan is to gain as much muscle as I can naturally with the barbell, and then use calisthenics to maintain it indefinitely. Calisthenics is not as practical for building, I think, but it is good for maintaining.

[bigbait]

(01-14-2015 11:40 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As you read through this thread you realize that shoulder injuries are common and should be avoided if possible.

Once injured it never becomes the same.

I think this is true for many tendon injuries. I've been told that the shoulder is very easy to injure on the bench because it is very easy to overextend on the bench. Some people recommend doing all of your "bench" presses on a mat using dumbbells so that there is no possibility of overextending.

[bigbait]

(01-13-2015 08:45 PM)Stun Wrote:  

I have been going on 12 years of weightlifting. Started around weighing 170lbs and now am 200. In 2002 I could only lift 115lbs on bench, can now do reps at 225, and 245.

The most absolutely crucial things after age 35 are, besides consistency, diet, and form:

-Avoid sugar whenever possible
-Drink enough water - at my body weight I drink a gallon of water/day, even when not thirsty
-Get enough sleep
-Avoid alcohol whenever possible

I'm curious - do you find that you need to avoid all sugar? Or just processed sugar? Do you find fresh fruit to be ok for you?

[scorpion]

(01-14-2015 11:40 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As you read through this thread you realize that shoulder injuries are common and should be avoided if possible.

Once injured it never becomes the same.

I would say that shoulder injuries are the most common, followed by lower back injuries. Together those probably account for 80+% of the lifting injuries I've seen over the years talking with guys in various gyms. So if you want to be in the lifting game long term, those are the main things to avoid. The easiest ways to do this:

1) Stop flat benching entirely. I've posted about how pointless this exercise is before, and how it's especially terrible due to how easily it can fuck up your shoulders. There is also no shortage of alternative exercises to grow your pecs (HIT inclined pushups, cable flys) and build functional upper body strength (standing overhead press), so unless you are competing in powerlifting (meaning that bench pressing is itself competition for you) you're better off with other exercises.

2) Always wear a belt when squatting heavy. The argument about belts not allowing your core to develop is bullshit. The belt isn't holding the weight up for you, it's just helping your keep your core tight, which keeps your lower back in the proper position.

3) Be intelligent with your deadlifting. Don't regularly push with 110% intensity to try to hit a 1 rep max. In fact, don't bother with 1 rep maxes at all. Stay in the 5 rep range and be really strict with your form.

With current medical science and hormone replacement therapy, there is no reason that guys today shouldn't be able to remain significantly muscular into their 60s. The only thing that will stop you dead in your tracks is joint injuries, which is why you really need to avoid them at all cost. Is it possible you will lose out on some gains by not flat benching, limiting yourself to belted squats only, and not pushing for 1 rep maxes on deadlift? Possibly. But even if so, you'd be sacrificing rather minor gains with the tradeoff of reducing your injury likelihood by probably an entire order of magnitude. So instead of having 100% gains for 5 years until you sustain a major joint injury that only allows you to get 50% gains from then on, you'd get 90% gains for the next 30-40 years uninterrupted. That's the idea, at least.

[Foolsgo1d]

(01-13-2015 08:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 07:36 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

I didn't need 10 years to stop doing;
- Weighted dips

Why did you stop doing those? What about bodyweight dips?

I got up to having a 55kg dumbbell attached to a dip belt. Whilst I could do the dips for a good range of motion I did not like the feeling that a sudden mistake could dislocate my shoulder or worse.

I felt the pressure in my shoulder building up so I took the decision to stop. I liked dips but the manner of doing them isn't healthy for what results they give.

[Ringo]

So, 50+ posts in. For having great results as well as longevity in the gym...

- Lift just heavy enough so you make progress. No ego lifting and don't compromise your form.
- Slow and steady, always progressing. Again, don't rush.
- Do everything not to get injured, even if it costs you some progress. Once you have injured yourself, it's never going to be the same.
- Bench press and deadlift are more dangerous than other lifts. Be mindful.
- Don't push for very big weights, rather up your sets or reps. Volume + effort/intensity > very heavy weights.
- Calisthenics is generally safer than weights.
- Eat clean, avoid sugar.
- Stretch and foam roll.

Is this a good summary?

Just trying to gather the collective info from you vets.

[Saweeep]

I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Plus my oft repeated mantra: Listen to Your Body

[rudebwoy]

(01-14-2015 05:38 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(01-14-2015 11:40 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

As you read through this thread you realize that shoulder injuries are common and should be avoided if possible.

Once injured it never becomes the same.

I would say that shoulder injuries are the most common, followed by lower back injuries. Together those probably account for 80+% of the lifting injuries I've seen over the years talking with guys in various gyms. So if you want to be in the lifting game long term, those are the main things to avoid. The easiest ways to do this:

1) Stop flat benching entirely. I've posted about how pointless this exercise is before, and how it's especially terrible due to how easily it can fuck up your shoulders. There is also no shortage of alternative exercises to grow your pecs (HIT inclined pushups, cable flys) and build functional upper body strength (standing overhead press), so unless you are competing in powerlifting (meaning that bench pressing is itself competition for you) you're better off with other exercises.

2) Always wear a belt when squatting heavy. The argument about belts not allowing your core to develop is bullshit. The belt isn't holding the weight up for you, it's just helping your keep your core tight, which keeps your lower back in the proper position.

3) Be intelligent with your deadlifting. Don't regularly push with 110% intensity to try to hit a 1 rep max. In fact, don't bother with 1 rep maxes at all. Stay in the 5 rep range and be really strict with your form.

With current medical science and hormone replacement therapy, there is no reason that guys today shouldn't be able to remain significantly muscular into their 60s. The only thing that will stop you dead in your tracks is joint injuries, which is why you really need to avoid them at all cost. Is it possible you will lose out on some gains by not flat benching, limiting yourself to belted squats only, and not pushing for 1 rep maxes on deadlift? Possibly. But even if so, you'd be sacrificing rather minor gains with the tradeoff of reducing your injury likelihood by probably an entire order of magnitude. So instead of having 100% gains for 5 years until you sustain a major joint injury that only allows you to get 50% gains from then on, you'd get 90% gains for the next 30-40 years uninterrupted. That's the idea, at least.

Good post and a must read for people that are serious.

I stopped flat bench press years ago, incline press Is my go to exercise for chest. I have a pretty impressive chest, I have been told.

[Foolsgo1d]

Yeah, definitely get a foam roller.

One gym I went to had no guys with foam rollers except me. By end of my first year in that gym I saw 10 other guys with them.

They help a lot.

[Stun]

(01-14-2015 05:38 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

1) Stop flat benching entirely.

YMMV, but in 12 yrs I've never come close to hurting myself on the flat bench, going up to sets @ 275lbs at one point. With proper form, driving the bar up with your whole body, the bench is predominantly a chest and triceps exercise, with minimal shoulder strains.

I *have tweaked my shoulders or traps (the stabilizer part) repeatedly on incline bench, once on shoulder press and once with lat pulldowns.

I still do incline bench in measured doses but have since replaced the others with overhead press and barbell rows, respectively.

[Stun]

(01-14-2015 05:07 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

(01-13-2015 08:45 PM)Stun Wrote:  

I have been going on 12 years of weightlifting. Started around weighing 170lbs and now am 200. In 2002 I could only lift 115lbs on bench, can now do reps at 225, and 245.

The most absolutely crucial things after age 35 are, besides consistency, diet, and form:

-Avoid sugar whenever possible
-Drink enough water - at my body weight I drink a gallon of water/day, even when not thirsty
-Get enough sleep
-Avoid alcohol whenever possible

I'm curious - do you find that you need to avoid all sugar? Or just processed sugar? Do you find fresh fruit to be ok for you?

I do. I believe in the benefits of eating fruit despite the sugar content.

[PittFighter]

I'm 31 (old), lifting since age 19

for many years I did Arnold style Chest/back day, then arm/shoulder day, then leg day, with all supersets. It worked very well in my younger days.

Through experimentation, I have settled now on this:

Day 1: legs (mostly supersets of leg ext, leg curl, calf raises, lunges, some hyperexensions)
Day 2: back, biceps
Day 3: chest, tricep, shoulder

three exercises each: chest and back
two exercises each: quads, hams, calves, biceps, shoulders, triceps
generally I do 4 to 5 sets per exercise for back, chest, legs and only 3 to 4 for arm, shoulder, and calves
I do abs after every workout unless I don't feel like it
I generally do 15 minutes of cardio afterwards
and then stretch, particularly on leg day

I focus on maintaining good form and getting a pump to maintain an aesthetic physique. I basically don't do any barbell squats or barbell bench press other than sometimes inclines. I rarely deadlift. Sometimes I go heavy (3-5 rep range) on my last set on some dumbbell or barbell exercises like military presses, incline presses, weighted dips, or t bar rows. I never go heavy on legs anymore, just get a good pump.

After Day 3, I start over. It really doesn't matter to me if I need to take a day off between day 1 and 2 or between 2 and 3, etc. Lifting is part of my life but it doesn't rule it. I just lift 5 to 6 days per week. If I'm traveling or busy with work it might be only 4. Doesn't really matter to me. Usually with travel, holidays, family obligations, or illness I end up taking 1-3 weeks completely off from lifting every year.

sometimes I go to one body part per day but that has never really worked for me.

more important than lifting is nutrition. People who know what they're doing at the dinner table are light years ahead of people who just go into the gym and keep hammering away at a poorly supplied body. I have been counting my macronutrient and caloric intake every day for years. Layne Norton and Chris Jones are two amateur bodybuilders who have published good info on the web about how to do this properly.

[Nascimento]

I'm still looking to add some muscle the next 2-3 months.

Lately though, I've increased my cardio. Playing either basketball or soccer 3-4 times a week (from 1-2 hours).

Often, it's on the same days I am lifting weights (4-5x a week).

I've been struggling a bit to add weight despite lately eating everything in sight. And this was before increasing my cardio.

Should I now be eating even more along the extremes? I'm sure I can exceed my caloric expenditure if I stuff myself with peanut butter, nuts, yogourt granolas and oatmeal and whatever else (poor food choices) towards the end of the day (when I have time to eat).

I know there is an argument for eating better when possible, but I estimate I'm requiring very very high calories at this time and realistically I cannot eat just clean chicken breasts and juice the entire day to ensure quality sources of carbs and proteins.

And because I'm doing heavy amounts of cardio, that does improve nutrition partioning, so does that justify poor eating?

Doesn't hurt to bump this thread either.

Essentially for lack of better terms, is it okay to 'dirty bulk' if I'm doing a lot of cardio along with the weight training?

[rhodey]

(01-15-2015 09:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

So, 50+ posts in. For having great results as well as longevity in the gym...

- Lift just heavy enough so you make progress. No ego lifting and don't compromise your form.

Agreed , although at the end of a high intensity set for a compound exercise form may suffer a bit - but that comes with the territory and is nothing to obsess about if you are lifting in a cage.

(01-15-2015 09:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

Bench press and dead lift are more dangerous than other lifts. Be mindful.

Quote From Paul Carter: There are no truly dangerous movements, for the most part. Only movements done improperly or incorrectly for your leverages. Then they can become dangerous.

(01-15-2015 09:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

- Don't push for very big weights, rather up your sets or reps. Volume + effort/intensity > very heavy weights.

Depends on your goals . Upping reps and upping weights don't have to be mutually exclusive. Actually they can go hand in hand. Its called double progression. To get really jacked you ultimately want to be able to knock out high reps sets with "heavy" weights.

You can also get volume in with heavy weights using low reps for a high amount of sets. For example 3 rep Deadlifts X 8-10 sets @ `85% of your one rep max.

Again high Volume does not have to equate to high rep sets, rather it is the sum of all your sets - within reason.

If you are someone who just wants to look in amateur fitness model shape then yeah , knock out hundreds of pushups a day, hundreds of pistol squats e.t.c. I'm not knocking that - Ross Enamait is the man...

But If you want to maximize your muscular potential as fast and efficiently as possible ,upping reps AND upping the weights (with the goal of BIG weights) will get you there faster IMO .

Quote:

- Calisthenics is generally safer than weights.

Maybe but calisthenics will also generally be less time efficient when it comes to lifting progressively and building muscle mass. There is also the issue of diminishing returns.. So again I think it goes back to your goals.

IMO lifting weights is like riding a motorcycle, if you are the type that is constantly worried about getting hurt , then I suggest you don't partake. Lifting scared will get you hurt eventually.

If you are they type that takes the necessary precautions and are ready to assume the risks after then just go for it.

[rhodey]

(02-07-2015 10:00 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

I'm still looking to add some muscle the next 2-3 months.

Lately though, I've increased my cardio. Playing either basketball or soccer 3-4 times a week (from 1-2 hours).

Often, it's on the same days I am lifting weights (4-5x a week).

I've been struggling a bit to add weight despite lately eating everything in sight. And this was before increasing my cardio.

Should I now be eating even more along the extremes? I'm sure I can exceed my caloric expenditure if I stuff myself with peanut butter, nuts, yogourt granolas and oatmeal and whatever else (poor food choices) towards the end of the day (when I have time to eat).

I know there is an argument for eating better when possible, but I estimate I'm requiring very very high calories at this time and realistically I cannot eat just clean chicken breasts and juice the entire day to ensure quality sources of carbs and proteins.

And because I'm doing heavy amounts of cardio, that does improve nutrition partioning, so does that justify poor eating?

Doesn't hurt to bump this thread either.

Essentially for lack of better terms, is it okay to 'dirty bulk' if I'm doing a lot of cardio along with the weight training?

.

Doing a "heavy amounts of cardio" runs diametrically opposite to "add some muscle".

Pick a goal and shoot towards that.

You cant build muscle while in a catabolic state.

Your body wont partition anything for Muscle while in a catabolic state.

So pick one or the other...

A) Be good at basketball and soccer for 2 -3 months?



or.....

B) make some gainz for 2- 3 months?




The choice is yours.

[rudebwoy]

^^I would recommend eating clean when you can over just stuffing down any food. I have seen dudes at the gym cut out junk food and the results have been amazing. Food is the most important aspect of weight training.
As for your training, look at your routine and is it working. Are you crushing your legs at the gym? Are you exhausted after each session? The answer might be "No" since you have energy to do basketball and soccer on the same days. I would do those sports on your non lifting days.
Also you will not grow if you don't take a day off from the gym, you need a rest day.

[Giovonny]

(02-07-2015 10:00 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

does that justify poor eating?

No.

Healthy food is almost always superior to unhealthy food.

If you want a great body, healthy food will help you reach your goals faster than unhealthy food.

(02-07-2015 10:00 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

is it okay to 'dirty bulk' if I'm doing a lot of cardio along with the weight training?

It is okay if you are getting the results you want.

But, if you are not getting the results you want, healthier food is probably a better option.

---

I eat a few "unhealthy" meals each week, as cheat meals, but the rest of my diet is very good.