[Dalaran1991]

All my lays came from 1st date bang, something similar to the one written by Tuth, but I always kiss the girl before venue changing home.

Works for me so far, but recent strike outs showed me that I didn't have a plan B when she declined to come back home. Usually I either insist, or eject. Most of the time I don't see the girl again.

Which leads me to the question, should I counter-offer by suggesting a different venue change other than my crib? Another bar, some snack place, etc.

Her: sorry I don't want to come back to your place, I'm not comfortable/I have class early tomorrow/blabla
Me: Ok no problem, but I'm hungry, let's go grab a bite, I know an awesome place.

The idea is that, if the offer to venue-change home fails, it's really awkward and beta to keep staying there at the same venue. Since we always give a reason to venue change, by staying there after she declined you are both failling into her frame and invalidating yourself at the same time.

The second thing is that, a casual counter-offer like above should get you some more time to game her, and maybe try again. Or it could just give you more time to build comfort/attraction and then try again on another date.

Is it worth it? Or should I just cut my loss and move on?

[heavy]

I call it the Ambiguous Time Close (I just made that up)...a great way of finding out her interest without actually asking her out.

Her: No, I'm not comfortable/I have class early tomorrow/blabla
You: What? No I meant tomorrow...I was gonna have some friends over

I use this on tinder and via text all the time. Be as suggestive as possible when you meet up (presumably you want sex now), but when she turns you down say "Well yeah, I didn't mean tonight"

Edit: Make it very clear what you want and when, with plausible deniability on the details. That way you're directly asking her out, but if you can deny any of the details (time, location, event), you don't really get turned down.

Better yet, the Ambiguity Close

[kaotic]

If you're out and about with this chick, hell yeah keep gaming man.

Absolutely venue change again, hell do it a 3rd time.

Question: How do you ASK/SUGGEST she come back to your place ?

I usually drop bait about stuff I have at my pad, movies I thought are great, etc.

Then suggest we check or watch whatever SOMEDAY.

If she agrees I'll later bring it up as "speaking of that, we should totally watch or check out X right now !" i've been shot down a few times but many have accepted.

It's plausible deniability especially if you haven't kissed the girl yet.

[The Wire]

(01-30-2015 04:09 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Her: sorry I don't want to come back to your place, I'm not comfortable/I have class early tomorrow/blabla
Me: Ok no problem, but I'm hungry, let's go grab a bite, I know an awesome place.

Well as everyone knows I'm strongly on Team No Appetizer, so I personally wouldn't reward her with food. I would go for another bar assuming the date isn't going bad.

[The Wire]

(01-30-2015 04:19 PM)heavy Wrote:  

I call it the Ambiguous Time Close (I just made that up)...a great way of finding out her interest without actually asking her out.

Her: No, I'm not comfortable/I have class early tomorrow/blabla
You: What? No I meant tomorrow...I was gonna have some friends over

Can you explain this a little more or give another conversation example? I like the idea but im not entirely following. In your example above Ill use my most recent date where she rejected my offer

Me: Ok lets get out of here. You want to grab a drink back at my place?
Her: No, I'm not comfortable/I have class early tomorrow/blabla
You: What? No I meant tomorrow...I was gonna have some friends over

I'm going to deny I just invited her back to my place?

[Dalaran1991]

(01-30-2015 04:20 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

If you're out and about with this chick, hell yeah keep gaming man.

Absolutely venue change again, hell do it a 3rd time.

Question: How do you ASK/SUGGEST she come back to your place ?

I usually drop bait about stuff I have at my pad, movies I thought are great, etc.

Then suggest we check or watch whatever SOMEDAY.

If she agrees I'll later bring it up as "speaking of that, we should totally watch or check out X right now !" i've been shot down a few times but many have accepted.

It's plausible deniability especially if you haven't kissed the girl yet.

I just use the very classics one: "Let's go grab a drink at my place, you'll get to taste the best cocktails ever" I usually talked about me being a bartender with girl so that works.

Or the last time, I just said "Let's get out of this club, we can come to my pad, put on some music and have a drink"

The whole reason I started this thread is because I feel like this: If the girl refused to bounce to your pad, it's because she IS JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

That's why I ask you guys if it's even worth it to counter offer because I feel like if she declines, it's usually fucked already and there's no need to push.

To be honest every time a girl bounce back to my crib the reason is really lame. Some of them don't drink. Some of them don't even dance. But they bounce anyway. They are already down to fuck and just need plausible deniability to head over.

Note that I always kiss the girl before bouncing. Actually the only girl who bounced and gave me crazy LMR, was the one I didn't kiss LOL. Maybe French girls are more honest about what is really happening on a date than American girls? Because for fuck sake you know that if you go on a date with a guy you are interested. If you kiss him then you want to fuck him. If you wanna fuck him then why not now?

So if she bounces, don't fuck up. If she declines, it's not even worth trying. I actually NEVER got a second date where I didn't already bang the girl.

But maybe I got it all wrong. I'm open for all suggestions.

@Heavy: that's some great way to "save face" so that she doesn't really "refuse" you. Psychologically speaking, if you can get people to say yes to small things, they will say yes to big things. Conversely, the more she says no to you, the harder it gets. I'm talking about the real "no" not the "no means yes" no. This is called the "one foot in the door" effect in psych.

@Wire: what reward? I split on all my dates. Or its usually I pay at one venue and she pays at the next. So yeah if I don't venue change I actually lose out on some $ lol. That's what I love about French girls. They never expect you to pay but they won't fight you if you offer to pay.

Food venues in France also have lots of opportunity to kino escalate. I always sit next to my date never opposite.

[kaotic]

(01-30-2015 04:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I just use the very classics one: "Let's go grab a drink at my place, you'll get to taste the best cocktails ever" I usually talked about me being a bartender with girl so that works.

Or the last time, I just said "Let's get out of this club, we can come to my pad, put on some music and have a drink"

The whole reason I started this thread is because I feel like this: If the girl refused to bounce to your pad, it's because she IS JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

That's why I ask you guys if it's even worth it to counter offer because I feel like if she declines, it's usually fucked already and there's no need to push.

To be honest every time a girl bounce back to my crib the reason is really lame. Some of them don't drink. Some of them don't even dance. But they bounce anyway. They are already down to fuck and just need plausible deniability to head over.

So if she bounces, don't fuck up. If she declines, it's not even worth trying.

But maybe I got it all wrong. I'm open for all suggestions.

@Heavy: that's some great way to "save face" so that she doesn't really "refuse" you. Psychologically speaking, if you can get people to say yes to small things, they will say yes to big things. Conversely, the more she says no to you, the harder it gets. I'm talking about the real "no" not the "no means yes" no. This is called the "one foot in the door" effect in psych.

@Wire: what reward? I split on all my dates. Or its usually I pay at one venue and she pays at the next. So yeah if I don't venue change I actually lose out on some $ lol. That's what I love about French girls. They never expect you to pay but they won't fight you if you offer to pay.

Food venues in France also have lots of opportunity to kino escalate. I always sit next to my date never opposite.

Perhaps i'm just more sneaky and like to prod more, I've had a girl say she had to get up early, yet she got up on my dick later that night.

Perhaps this is a question of building more comfort BEFORE dropping those lines.

I've had girls tell me we're not having sex BEFORE we even meet up and she's fucking me that night.

Sure, at first glance some might say "oh no dude she isn't into you, eject"

Do you ever wonder or kick yourself later realizing you could've got the bang ?

I don't want to be that guy, so I push the interaction as far as I can. Until I get a hard no or she's in my bed.

You're already out, so why not see how far it goes ?

[OregonToSoCal]

This is an interesting thread as I always run Tuth's first date recipe and then had my share of women LMR me or straight out get up and leave after seeing whatever "bait" I've used to get them back to my place. And I'm not waiting hours to make my move either. I always go for the kiss no more than 15-20 minutes, often sooner after we sit down on my couch and I'm showing her my "amazing photography portfolio". I know we like to give women all the credit in the world that they know what's up when we invite them back home but if we've been the perfect gentleman on the date and not even attempted a kiss I think many are naive (dumb?) enough to not even suspect that we're going to try and have sex with them once they're on our couch.

Prior to doing the first date recipe I always went for the makeout at the bar and while many refused to come home with me those who did were always DTF. I honestly don't know which way works better when it comes to net lays per date.

[MikeS]

Here in Bulgaria where I've lived for a while it feels like women absolutely know what's expected of them if they agree to go home with me or invite me to their place.
The obvious upside has been that there's virtually no LMR when I get them here, the downside is that regardless of "bait" they staunchly refuse to come along unless they are ready to fuck, and the last many years (after I grew out of clubbing regularly) I've always had a much easier time getting girls past the last hurdles once I've had them alone in private rather than in a bar/café/park.

[kmhour]

(01-30-2015 04:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

The whole reason I started this thread is because I feel like this: If the girl refused to bounce to your pad, it's because she IS JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

There is some truth to this, but it isn't the whole truth. I'm assuming you aren't asking girls back to your place when they're cold and disinterested. If this is the case, they clearly have some element of interest in you. Not wanting to bounce back to your pad after a couple hours doesn't mean she isn't into you - just that you haven't created enough attraction, or she isn't that type of girl.

if your aim is to hook up on the first date, then you're definitely weeding out some of the latter group who may want to wait a few dates. it's up to you if that's your intent. I don't think you have anything to lose, since amping up the sexual interest from an early stage is good even if she is a three-dater.

but, you're still leaving some girls in the former group on the table. assuming they don't get up and leave, they are still interested - you just haven't given them enough reason to take the plunge. another venue change, another drink, some more flirting and escalation of physical contact, maybe telling a story that augments or strengthens whatever hints you've dropped about your place. all reasons to give it another shot after you've put in some more work.

[Rawmeo]

I'd say, build more comfort before trying to bounce to your place.

Just like The Wire said, if she doesn't want to bounce, don't reward her with food. In fact, don't reward her with anything. Gifts, food, etc. are for when she already gave you something.

I would get another round, and quickly try again. If it fails a second time, don't waste more time.

Do not "suggest" we go to your place. Just tell her that we are going to your place. Something along the lines of "Hey, I'll show you that drink I was talking about earlier. Let's go, I live not far from here!" If you ask "wanna come?", you are offering her the option of saying no.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Good point

This is really THE most crucial time in the date, when you ask her to comply then you open up the door for late minute hamstring

The word "Let's".....leaves you in position of directing the next step

[Saweeep]

I prefer grabbing her hand (or even better, if in the mood, the back of her neck) and simply saying "come on, we're leaving".

I'll have done this already between a couple of venues and by this point I have physically moved her about almost non stop, from the moment we meet.

[Sonsowey]

I have had cases like this:

Meet at date location A.

Bounce to date location B nearer my place.

Ask her to come to my place, she declines.

Bounce to date location C.

Ask her again to come, she accepts.

Sometimes girls do just "need more time". Often that could be 30-90 minutes more time. I don't think you lose much by brushing off a rejection, continuing to build attraction, and then trying to bounce again later.

Your call when to cut it off as a waste of time but for me, an extra hour and an extra drink at a different bar is a no brainer.