[Mister X]

Just wondering if any guys have had any success being completely transparent with a woman and addressing dating norms/rules/expectations/etc head on.

For example - let's say you had a ONS with a girl. And you'd like to see her again. Instead of trying to find a reason to text her, or having to find a way to cut through the potential awkwardness of reopening, maybe you text her "Hey this is ____, here's my courtesy text to make sure you don't feel cheap or used after hooking up with me, how's it going?"

Or if at a bar, if you approach a girl and she's giving off cold vibes, but you're willing to try and get past the shield, maybe you flat out tell her "you can lower your shield honey, I don't bite." Or something to that affect.

Or to set up a date with a girl you're relatively comfortable with - "Hey you want to have wild sex with me under the guise of wine and a movie and say "it just happened?"

I'm drawing blanks at the moment of more specific examples - but what I'm trying to say is, have you ever acknowledged or poked fun at some of the rules or norms of dating directly and had success?

I've found it works for me if the girl has a similar sense of humor. I'm sure there is potential for failure, as with anything, and I know we're supposed to give women plausible deniability, but wondering if a lot of girls would find it refreshing to see a guy mock the stereotypical shit men and women do when they're trying to hook up with each other and whatnot.

[pheonix500000]

(01-20-2015 03:08 PM)Mister X Wrote:  

Just wondering if any guys have had any success being completely transparent with a woman and addressing dating norms/rules/expectations/etc head on.

For example - let's say you had a ONS with a girl. And you'd like to see her again. Instead of trying to find a reason to text her, or having to find a way to cut through the potential awkwardness of reopening, maybe you text her "Hey this is ____, here's my courtesy text to make sure you don't feel cheap or used after hooking up with me, how's it going?"

Or if at a bar, if you approach a girl and she's giving off cold vibes, but you're willing to try and get past the shield, maybe you flat out tell her "you can lower your shield honey, I don't bite." Or something to that affect.

Or to set up a date with a girl you're relatively comfortable with - "Hey you want to have wild sex with me under the guise of wine and a movie and say "it just happened?"

I'm drawing blanks at the moment of more specific examples - but what I'm trying to say is, have you ever acknowledged or poked fun at some of the rules or norms of dating directly and had success?

I've found it works for me if the girl has a similar sense of humor. I'm sure there is potential for failure, as with anything, and I know we're supposed to give women plausible deniability, but wondering if a lot of girls would find it refreshing to see a guy mock the stereotypical shit men and women do when they're trying to hook up with each other and whatnot.

hahaha are you trying to logic your way into pussy?

[Mister X]

(01-20-2015 03:17 PM)pheonix500000 Wrote:  

hahaha are you trying to logic your way into pussy?

No man! Haha, just lately I've been tinkering with different things. I've grown somewhat tired of this whole routine we do. Tiptoeing around certain subjects like the girl is a gazelle and any sudden movements will scare her off. I like to be bold and attack things head on and see what comes out of it.

I truly believe if the girl has an attraction to you be it physical or through chemistry or whatever, there's very little you can do to fuck things up. Unless you become super needy or outcome dependent or whatever.

I think a lot of guys overgame when there's no need.

Some guys try to come up with the perfect logistical set up and story to feed the girl to bring her over. The girl knows she's going there to bang, you know she's going there to bang...why are we pretending any differently?

A lot will say, in order to disengage her ASD, you must play coy, like things "just happened." I just think there's more than one way to skin a cat. Like I said, I've had some success being comically direct with some of these girls. But as I mentioned, really depends on where her sense of humor is at.

I'm curious if any other guys have gone super direct and had results with it.

[kaotic]

(01-20-2015 03:08 PM)Mister X Wrote:  

For example - let's say you had a ONS with a girl. And you'd like to see her again. Instead of trying to find a reason to text her, or having to find a way to cut through the potential awkwardness of reopening, maybe you text her "Hey this is ____, here's my courtesy text to make sure you don't feel cheap or used after hooking up with me, how's it going?"

I'd never say that, but if its after the first time I'm banging the girl, I'll do a "safe sex beta text" aka hitting up her saying "Hey I had a blast last night if you know what I mean, that was really fun, next time I'll bring the whips and cuffs!" or some shit like that. (To avoid possible false rape charges)

Keep it light and funny, maybe even sexualize it more for the second meet/bang.

Quote:

Or if at a bar, if you approach a girl and she's giving off cold vibes, but you're willing to try and get past the shield, maybe you flat out tell her "you can lower your shield honey, I don't bite." Or something to that affect.

Cold vibes usually I'll just next, if I'm feeling adventurous yeah sure the shield might be good, or perhaps resting bitch face, something to throw her off balance.

Quote:

Or to set up a date with a girl you're relatively comfortable with - "Hey you want to have wild sex with me under the guise of wine and a movie and say "it just happened?"

Eh personally that sounds a bit corny to me. Relatively comfortable with, I'm assuming means you've already banged her ? Usually I touch base, bring up a funny/crazy story, or just send her a pic. Tease the shit out of her, maybe some shit talking and set date up.

With 2 girls on my plate, all I need to say is "come over". Because they know the deal we both agreed to. Sometimes I'll send a straight up sext that get's the hot and bothered.

There's a difference between setting up a date or hanging out and fucking.

Quote:

I'm drawing blanks at the moment of more specific examples - but what I'm trying to say is, have you ever acknowledged or poked fun at some of the rules or norms of dating directly and had success?

ABSOLUTELY. I'll poke fun at other people on dates in the same bar as we are. I drop red pill jokes and knowledge.

-"Stop being so nervous and awkward, it's just a first date, it's not like you're being judged or anything" -big smirk-
-"That guy over there is giving an interview to that fucking girl about his life"
-"She trying to sell herself on how she can be a good wife"
-"Why are they even eating dinner? I bet it's their first date and he's paying"
-"Let's be real and not BS we're both here because we're attracted to each other"
-"Let's get this cliche date move out of the way" -kiss her-

There's a ton of things I've said before, like dates being shitty, scripted, formalities are BS, men and women can't be friends, we're meant to fuck each other, I use them and DTF tells also.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Some girls can handle these level of directness, those are the kind that stay around longer in my experience because they tend to be more pragmatic when it comes to sex

You wanna get down, she wants to get down...typical female hamster script goes something like this - 'We are just two adults having fun'

Those kind of girls don't take much effort or convincing; part of the art is finding them or exposing their lax attitudes towards casual sex

As we all know most hotties need to at least be able to hamster away the obvious

`

[Mister X]

@kaotic

Yeah I do a lot of what you mentioned as well.

I think my overall point is, saying shocking things (it does work) or silly things that either address bullshit formalities like you mentioned head on or in a joking way.

I mean...it's called "game" for a reason right? It should be fun. I'm at a place now where I'm having fun with stuff.

If, instead of doing the robotic, checking every bullet point approach to setting up a date/having a girl come over, I decide to ask her "hey want to come over and play battleship?" or whatever corny/silly thing I can think of...if that's enough for her to ignore the text, or flake on me, or whatever, so be it. The only girls in my life I want to deal with are fun and silly and know how to take a joke.

I think sometimes we lose sight of this whole thing and get too serious. Chasing girls should be fun. Light hearted and fun.

[Mister X]

(01-20-2015 03:51 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

Some girls can handle these level of directness, those are the kind that stay around longer in my experience because they tend to be more pragmatic when it comes to sex

You wanna get down, she wants to get down...typical female hamster script goes something like this - 'We are just two adults having fun'

Those kind of girls don't take much effort or convincing; part of the art is finding them or exposing their lax attitudes towards casual sex

As we all know most hotties need to at least be able to hamster away the obvious

`

I've read some guys on here drop "red pill knowledge" on girls on dates and have actually gotten the girl more turned on by it. I can attest to that as well. I'll state my beliefs on how men need to act like men and not feed into attention whoring and blah blah blah and the girls agree.

So it's really taking that kind of approach. Not hiding from your red pill beliefs, but going head on with them, as well as letting her know you're hip to the shit girls tend to pull. I think it lets her know that you won't tolerate any shit because you know all the tricks of the trade. So really, it works on two fronts, when it does in fact work.

[DumbfromBirth]

Example 1: girls can use guys for sex as well. Only text her if you actually want to see her again otherwise save the strength in your fingers.
Example 2: Tell her shes not fooling anyone and drop the act
Example 3: If your lazy "wanna bang" otherwise use an innuendo that gives you deniability they love that shit.
E.g. Said this last night to a girl that was telling me how shes been working out alot lately
Me: so you have more stamina now. For certain things.
Her: hahaha for certain things. Yes!
Me: I was thinking of jogging not sure what you were thinking of
And etc.

In the end you can say mostly say anything I just said that because I was bored and have already boned her.

Only things I poke fun of is how retarded it is my friends are all getting married at such a young age like its some kind of fad.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Funny you bring this up because I have been thinking about related game techniques for awhile now

After going using indirect game for so long, you reach a stage where you look to cut through the theatrics. Directness can shake things up and wet her panties, especially if you throw in some confidence and eye contact

This is my preferred method currently - I want her to choose a side early on in the interaction versus a long drawn out mating dance. Besides what she won't do another girl most definitely will and inserting some directness while letting her know that you know that she knows early on takes away all pretense and saves you from pursuing bad leads.

Blow out rate may be higher but so is my peace of mind

[Mister X]

(01-20-2015 04:42 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

Funny you bring this up because I have been thinking about related game techniques for awhile now

After going using indirect game for so long, you reach a stage where you look to cut through the theatrics. Directness can shake things up and wet her panties, especially if you throw in some confidence and eye contact

This is my preferred method currently - I want her to choose a side early on in the interaction versus a long drawn out mating dance. Besides what she won't do another girl most definitely will and inserting some directness while letting her know that you know that she knows early on takes away all pretense and saves you from pursuing bad leads.

Blow out rate may be higher but so is my peace of mind

Peace of mind. Absolutely. Totally agree.

I think when a girl is into you, she's into you. Some guys take the scenic route and one topic that always comes up in the manosphere is - does she hook up with you because of your superior gaming skills...or because she had a natural attraction to you from the jump?

I try to find out at the soonest possible moment what we are. Are we gonna have some casual fun or not. I don't want to take the scenic route to find that answer. I like being direct, partly for their reactions, and partly to save myself time.

In most cases, I believe, if a girl is balking at the idea of hooking up with you casually, you were never truly in the running.

Maybe there are situations where if you game hard enough, you can seal the deal down the road. But game is not my life. Having fun and experiencing things, that's my life. So I need to know if a girl is down to come along for the ride, or if she's not. Minimal, direct game is my game of choice at the moment. Less is more for me.

[DumbfromBirth]

You can reduce blowout by not being so blatant using words like sex and fuck. If its a girl you have already boned this ads to the fun of it but also doesnt matter either.

If its a girl you just started texting - being very direct will eliminate majority of girls that are not immediately dtf. Gauge what type of girl she is by first starting with something very small. If she goes along with it keep increasing the level of dirty talk seeing how far you can push it. The furthest ive ever pushed it with a girl that I hadnt boned is we got to a point where she was asking me advice on how to give a good blowjob and I was telling her techniques and shit to use.

[Mister X]

(01-20-2015 04:58 PM)DumbfromBirth Wrote:  

You can reduce blowout by not being so blatant using words like sex and fuck. If its a girl you have already boned this ads to the fun of it but also doesnt matter either.

If its a girl you just started texting - being very direct will eliminate majority of girls that are not immediately dtf. Gauge what type of girl she is by first starting with something very small. If she goes along with it keep increasing the level of dirty talk seeing how far you can push it. The furthest ive ever pushed it with a girl that I hadnt boned is we got to a point where she was asking me advice on how to give a good blowjob and I was telling her techniques and shit to use.

Typically what I try to do is bring the girl into my reality. And in my reality, no topic is off limits. Sometimes I try to ease them into it, sometimes I like to spice things up by dropping a bombshell of a dirty text and gauging their response.

A lot of girls will fight that at first, maybe they'll reply with "um, excuse me?" - to which I'll either send the exact same text, or I'll say "yup."

After a certain point, they get that "I'm that guy." I'm the guy who's gonna say some wild shit from time to time. I've established that frame. I don't let her text scare me off or get me shaken.

"Um, excuse me?"

"Yup."

"Lol...wow."

And then we proceed. You can't get rattled. When a girl challenges the frame, you have to defend it. Going into things, you decide what kind of frame you're looking for.

[getdownonit]

As MDP said, you may get some receptive reactions but the blowout rate is high. I will add that dropping red pill knowledge and going nuclear are separate and distinct strategies that you brought up in the OP.

[WestIndianArchie]

Dropping the red pill
Breaking the fourth wall
Manson style vulnerability
So called direct game
asshole game
Don't give a fuck attitude

It's all polarizing.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails.

From a numbers standpoint, I doubt anyone has done a double blind test with lots of subjects.

So it comes back to whether you want to run your game your way, outcome be damned.

I can't honestly say that It's process over results.A player never really know what "works" or why, just that he banged her, like he expected to bang her.


Personally, I've gotten mixed results. But I get mixed results from direct and indirect. I just know I like doing what I'm doing, and I'd like to screen out chicks that don't.

WIA

[dads]

It sounds like you're trying to project your own desires of girls being more logical and straightforward onto these hypothetical women. Anything is better than nothing, but if you're playing a numbers game, you'll get better results from the "whole routine we do".

[Menace]

I think if you want to experiment being super direct with women, the way to do it is through being more physical, not being more verbal. Personally, I enjoy being vague, communicating through innuendo, and using subtext.

[Giovonny]

(01-20-2015 03:08 PM)Mister X Wrote:  

Just wondering if any guys have had any success being completely transparent with a woman and addressing dating norms/rules/expectations/etc head on.

Yes, of course.

Witty and honest social observations allow us to display our sense of humor and intellect.

Sense of humor is attractive to women.

Good humor is often based in truth and satire.

Being honest is good. Being honest AND funny is better.

What you are describing is something that is done by people with a good sense of humor and good communication skills.

[Lizard King]

Closely related to the "DTF?" group text thread.

They both push a boundary, display outcome independence/not giving a fuck attitude, and both have quite 'binary' outcomes with little in between(as said above).

This type of interaction is high intensity, and situation/context dependent for success. I was thinking about the DTF thread recently and thought that it could have greater success at certain times on the calendar, days of the week, etc. Eg: texting "DTF?" en masse on a Friday or Saturday night is going to be conspicuously needy, compared to doing it mid-week.

Also, both these threads highlight an important aspect many guys forget, which is formulaic use of Game is prone to failure. It has to be tuned for the situation/person and so on.

[bojangles]

Best place to break the fourth wall is within the approach. I use it often as does Krauser, Tom Torero and other London daygamers

Sometimes you maybe approaching a girl at an awkward moment or in a weird situation, you just call it out and then she knows you're not a socially inept fool. In fact it makes you seem socially savvy.
Look I know you're waiting for a friend.....blah blah

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

If it is direct like OP suggested, I think it should be used just for fun, not expecting actual results. It dangerously edges on being a clown. Heartiste had an entertaining recipe that I tried successfuly once (got immediate interest and number but she flaked later):
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/11/...educe-her/

Subtle references, like bojangles and Gio suggested, are an entirely different matter and can be used any time.