[BadgerHut]

If a girl is difficult on the open, I bounce out and find someone else.

[Giovonny]

These girls are not "interested" in you, they are just being polite and courteous. (smiling, being friendly, being sweet, etc.)

If they were "interested" in you, they would be more willing to have a conversation with you.

You are confusing "ioi's" with "common courtesy".

Or, if they are interested in you, they are quickly getting "turned off" when you approach them.

Sorry for the harsh reality but that is my opinion.

[Hazaer]

(02-02-2015 03:39 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

These girls are not "interested" in you, they are just being polite and courteous. (smiling, being friendly, being sweet, etc.)

If they were "interested" in you, they would be more willing to have a conversation with you.

You are confusing "ioi's" with "common courtesy".

Or, if they are interested in you, they are quickly getting "turned off" when you approach them.

Sorry for the harsh reality but that is my opinion.

Would you have any suggestions on how to differentiate iois from common courtesy? Eg, we give some random chick walking by, eye contact and maybe a smile/smirk, what would be their reaction if they were displaying ioi vs returning the coutesy?

[reino341]

(12-31-2015 09:02 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(02-02-2015 03:39 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

These girls are not "interested" in you, they are just being polite and courteous. (smiling, being friendly, being sweet, etc.)

If they were "interested" in you, they would be more willing to have a conversation with you.

You are confusing "ioi's" with "common courtesy".

Or, if they are interested in you, they are quickly getting "turned off" when you approach them.

Sorry for the harsh reality but that is my opinion.

Would you have any suggestions on how to differentiate iois from common courtesy? Eg, we give some random chick walking by, eye contact and maybe a smile/smirk, what would be their reaction if they were displaying ioi vs returning the coutesy?

You can't know. Approach anyway.

[XPQ22]

I had a woman in a bar last weekend smile at me repeatedly and give me looks, and then when I opened her went cold as ice and brushed me off.

Then not 30 minutes later was smiling at me and giving me the eye again.

Maybe she had a boyfriend there and didn't want to be seen talking to me, maybe she was socially awkward, maybe she was just being polite, maybe she was messing with me, maybe the moon was in the House of Aquarius.

I'm not sure it's productive to speculate on the "whys". Either try again at another time and perhaps get a more definite "no" response, or move on.

[Hazaer]

(01-01-2016 04:09 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

I had a woman in a bar last weekend smile at me repeatedly and give me looks, and then when I opened her went cold as ice and brushed me off.

Then not 30 minutes later was smiling at me and giving me the eye again.

Maybe she had a boyfriend there and didn't want to be seen talking to me, maybe she was socially awkward, maybe she was just being polite, maybe she was messing with me, maybe the moon was in the House of Aquarius.

I'm not sure it's productive to speculate on the "whys". Either try again at another time and perhaps get a more definite "no" response, or move on.

Or she could be seeking self validation from you. Never get rejected twice.

[PapayaTapper]

As alluded to before a girl may actually be just taken by surprise when a guy she's interested in actually talks to her.

I think so much focus is spent on "approach anxiety" from the male perspective that its often overlooked that chicks can actually be very nervous and self-conscious themselves when encountering a new guy...especially one they find attractive. That nervousness may then come across as disinterest.

[Dantes]

Guys often misinterpret IOI's for common human behavior that we all engage in, which is surveying of our environment. I see it a lot actually with my wings. They overestimate a girl's interest.

The proof is in her reaction (or lack of) once you open her.

All this speculation of her needing validation is an avoidance of the truth. The truth being she is not interested and it was not an IOI. She just happened to looked in your direction or at you, without interest.

It happens to all of us...move on to the next target.

[BadgerHut]

(02-02-2015 03:39 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

These girls are not "interested" in you, they are just being polite and courteous. (smiling, being friendly, being sweet, etc.)

If they were "interested" in you, they would be more willing to have a conversation with you.

You are confusing "ioi's" with "common courtesy".

Or, if they are interested in you, they are quickly getting "turned off" when you approach them.

Sorry for the harsh reality but that is my opinion.

Bingo. IOIs are a small and overrated part of the game; the real test comes when you try to move her location or otherwise test some real skin in the game. Don't spend a lot of time getting too worked up about whether you read the signal right. Like Giovonny, maybe she was interested and her mood changed when you started talking.

The PUA-type discussion of IOIs is specious and was probably designed to help guys get over their AA.

[BadgerHut]

(01-02-2016 02:50 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

As alluded to before a girl may actually be just taken by surprise when a guy she's interested in actually talks to her.

I think so much focus is spent on "approach anxiety" from the male perspective that its often overlooked that chicks can actually be very nervous and self-conscious themselves when encountering a new guy...especially one they find attractive. That nervousness may then come across as disinterest.

I also think this is overlooked by guys. A lot of a guy's nervousness is pretty subtle - if he's talking and doing the approach, his actions
Whereas the girl is in the position of reacting to him, so her nervousness morphs into an apparent lack of response. I've talked to so many girls who say "I was totally into this guy, and I froze and/or sounded like a total idiot." Also remember that some girls have bad social skills, others aren't good in a game environment but are warmer and nicer in a date/meetup, etc.

Reading moods is generally very difficult and requires strong calibration, so don't waste a lot of time trying to discern what's in a girl's mind the first 5 minutes. This is why the Mystery Method and other game standbys try to escalate the intensity quickly so you can quickly get a real signal on whether she's into it.

[Giovonny]

(12-31-2015 09:02 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Would you have any suggestions on how to differentiate iois from common courtesy?

"IOIs" are more personal, more seductive, more physical, more intense than "common courtesys"

A girl might look at you, answer your question, smile, etc. But, that doesn't mean that she is interested in you. She was just raised to be courteous and polite in public.

When they are actually interested in you, their gaze changes, their eyes get more serious and more submissive. They often put themselves into your personal space or touch you. They ask you about yourself. They try hard to present the best version of themselves to you.

They go a step further than just common courtesy.

They often do it in a subtle way that makes it so only experienced players can recognize it.

For a beginner, the only way effectively differentiate between an "IOI" and "common courtesy" is to approach the girl and see how she reacts.

Of course, depending on your game, a girl who was interested in you can then become disinterested in you.. (if your game /was/is bad)

Or, a girl who was neutral or uninterested in you, can then become interested in you.. (she liked your game)

So, really, if you're a beginner or low intermediate, you shouldn't pay too much attention to "IOIs". You should be approaching the girls you like whether they give you "IOIs" or not. You should be verbally escalating and trying to flirt with any attractive girl who shows you "common courtesy".

That is what will improve your game, fast.

Trying to differentiate between an "IOI" and "common courtesy" almost seems pointless in comparison.

If you want her, approach her.

When in doubt, approach her.

(12-31-2015 09:02 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Example: we give some random chick walking by, eye contact and maybe a smile/smirk, what would be their reaction if they were displaying ioi vs returning the courtesy?

Common courtesy: She smiles and keeps walking.

IOI: She smiles and pauses, keeps looking at us, and steps in our direction.

--

Common courtesy: She smiles

IOI: She stops.

--

Common courtesy: She smiles, stops, answers one question then takes a step away from us.

IOI: She smiles. stops, answers one question then takes a step towards us.

--

Common courtesy: She answers and question then excuses herself.

IOI: She answers a question and then asks one.

--

Common courtesy: She is polite.

IOI: She is sexy. (hair flipping, ass showing, lip licking, ultra feminine behavior, submissive eyes)

[BrewDog]

Women are unpredictable psychopaths. Once you grasp this reality, you stop trying to figure them out.

I met a hostel girl this week that spent all night staring at me and touching my arm, etc. She was fit and pretty and half my age, but Im a dick and lie and she thinks I'm 30. She invited me to travel with her to another town in Colombia and I was going there anyhow. We have a grand time and are touchy feely and getting along great. Then she just changes. Immediately. I didn't do anything odd, so it was just her. Maybe her ex texted her and said let's get back together. Don't know; doesn't matter; don't care. I left her standing in the middle of the town square, and I'm ok with being a dick that way. She used up two days of my life. The next day she wanted my facebook. Crazy psychopath females.

[~wrIghter~]

Trav...Rob...you giants!

I think the whole IoIs thing has prevented me from making approaches just as another excuse. I already have a lot of women I half regret not approaching...because you never know until you try. What I do pay attention to is eye contact and body language. Most girls have their arms folded when a stranger approaches (even when sitting on the train/etc). They are so used to looking down at their phones texting, that some guy they never met approaching them would probably raise their heart rate.

Honestly I believe girls are going to be difficult, regardless of how good one's game is. Unfortunately that's something we all have to deal with.

[ksbms]

(01-15-2016 02:14 AM)~wrIghter~ Wrote:  

Trav...Rob...you giants!

I think the whole IoIs thing has prevented me from making approaches just as another excuse. I already have a lot of women I half regret not approaching...because you never know until you try. What I do pay attention to is eye contact and body language. Most girls have their arms folded when a stranger approaches (even when sitting on the train/etc). They are so used to looking down at their phones texting, that some guy they never met approaching them would probably raise their heart rate.

Honestly I believe girls are going to be difficult, regardless of how good one's game is. Unfortunately that's something we all have to deal with.

Always go with false positive, unless the cost outweighs the profit (say, you see a sexy cute little minx being a part of antiterrorist squad in action, I wouldn't advise running up to her and asking for her number).

[robreke]

(01-15-2016 02:14 AM)~wrIghter~ Wrote:  

Trav...Rob...you giants!

I think the whole IoIs thing has prevented me from making approaches just as another excuse. I already have a lot of women I half regret not approaching...because you never know until you try. What I do pay attention to is eye contact and body language. Most girls have their arms folded when a stranger approaches (even when sitting on the train/etc). They are so used to looking down at their phones texting, that some guy they never met approaching them would probably raise their heart rate.

Honestly I believe girls are going to be difficult, regardless of how good one's game is. Unfortunately that's something we all have to deal with.

Do you indirect or direct approach? Or both?

[~wrIghter~]

^I do both. I'd usually comment on a clothing item and go from there. It's similar to how Gio would pick out something he likes on a girl, it could be anything.

I've also gone fully direct, which feels more satisfying despite the outcome. The girls were more interested when I went direct. There's a log somewhere about me approaching a Brazilian chick at the gym. I opened with:

"Wow, your physique's amazing, do you compete?"

She was pretty open and we bantered a bit while doing curls. Asked her out but she was taken. This was a 9/10 in my book. (Short, curvy, sexy, fit).

Gym has probably been the easiest place to start a convo with random chicks. Outside, it's a bit more challenging to hold their attention unless there is some kind of initial attraction.