[RichieP]

Yeah the more I read this thread and consider the Force in TFA, the more unacceptable it seems.

Force isn't just some token ability. It's like, the core of Star wars. It's WHY there's a Star Wars.

Everything Yoda and Obi-Wan have told us about how it works, the nature of the Dark (easy seductive path) and Light side (discipline, patience, facing your fears) etc.

All the Force mythology has been fractured with Rey picking up every power instantly. It's like it's an Xbox game and she button-mashed and got the special move on the third try. Total bullshit. Contrast that to Luke's path - years of frustration, slowly picking up bits and pieces, mentorship, finding his way with it, facing his fears and inner demons to grow in his power.

Makes you wonder whether the writer and director are really die-hard Star Wars fans. I wonder what Lucas thought when he saw this. Id' love to know his honest reaction. Just seems farcical that they'd fracture this core mythology.

Rian Johnson is directing the next one and I have alot more faith in him. Check out his interviews, guy is sharp as a tack and a true fan of this stuff. If the script is truer to Star Wars lore, I think he could rescue it.

[coverdoc]

Not a big starwars fan, but went to see the movie as my date had an extra ticket. Agree that Finn and Poe together felt like great onscene chemistry. I don't think we'll see more of it though. Could someone explain to me how Finn was able to almost go toe to toe with Kylo in the forest? I thought at first Finn maybe had some of the force in him as in the beginning scenes kylo stopped and looked at him while Finn was in his storm troopers outfit. Any thoughts?

-CD

[memcpy]

There was a scene where the black guy was supposed to kiss the white girl. Instead they hugged. The black guy actually ran to her like some sort of clingy girl. I guess Disney thought it was too risky to show a kiss between the two.

[Vaun]

(12-20-2015 05:01 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

All the Force mythology has been fractured with Rey picking up every power instantly. It's like it's an Xbox game and she button-mashed and got the special move on the third try. Total bullshit. Contrast that to Luke's path - years of frustration, slowly picking up bits and pieces, mentorship, finding his way with it, facing his fears and inner demons to grow in his power.

Makes you wonder whether the writer and director are really die-hard Star Wars fans. I wonder what Lucas thought when he saw this. Id' love to know his honest reaction.

A few things are at play; Disney needed a hit right out of the gate, note a slow moving series. Even with the huge opening their stock took a hit. John Carter nearly bankrupted them, and they needed a JJ Abrams style action movie to get the the reviews, to literally save the company. They didnt have room to build a story, plus the story has been exhaustively told.

I saw it at midnight on Friday in NYC. Great crowd, lots of applause and cheers. I liked it a lot. I liked how Snoke was a giant, touching on giant mythology. The story was really obvious though; Han dies, Rey is Lukes daughter, the bumbling male character Finn, etc. Too predictable.

[Paracelsus]

(12-20-2015 05:21 AM)coverdoc Wrote:  

Not a big starwars fan, but went to see the movie as my date had an extra ticket. Agree that Finn and Poe together felt like great onscene chemistry. I don't think we'll see more of it though. Could someone explain to me how Finn was able to almost go toe to toe with Kylo in the forest? I thought at first Finn maybe had some of the force in him as in the beginning scenes kylo stopped and looked at him while Finn was in his storm troopers outfit. Any thoughts?

I'm wondering whether they might well render Finn Force-sensitive later on sometime -- there certainly seemed to be a couple of hints dropped here and there on the subject.

The only explanation I had for Finn going up against Kylo and not getting completely killed was that he was relying entirely on melee combat training from his time as a stormtrooper, which got him part of the way against an injured Ren.

Having that other stormtrooper throw down on him earlier in the movie with an electric mace (one of the few elements hearkening back to Episode 3, one might note) was a brilliant way of explaining where his ability to wield a saber around comes from -- stormtroopers are trained with high-energy melee weapons, therefore Finn of course has the same training.

[YossariansRight]

A "Mad Libs" summary of the new pseudo-Star Wars flick.

Contains spoilers:









   

[coverdoc]

(12-20-2015 08:43 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 05:21 AM)coverdoc Wrote:  

Not a big starwars fan, but went to see the movie as my date had an extra ticket. Agree that Finn and Poe together felt like great onscene chemistry. I don't think we'll see more of it though. Could someone explain to me how Finn was able to almost go toe to toe with Kylo in the forest? I thought at first Finn maybe had some of the force in him as in the beginning scenes kylo stopped and looked at him while Finn was in his storm troopers outfit. Any thoughts?

I'm wondering whether they might well render Finn Force-sensitive later on sometime -- there certainly seemed to be a couple of hints dropped here and there on the subject.

The only explanation I had for Finn going up against Kylo and not getting completely killed was that he was relying entirely on melee combat training from his time as a stormtrooper, which got him part of the way against an injured Ren.

Having that other stormtrooper throw down on him earlier in the movie with an electric mace (one of the few elements hearkening back to Episode 3, one might note) was a brilliant way of explaining where his ability to wield a saber around comes from -- stormtroopers are trained with high-energy melee weapons, therefore Finn of course has the same training.

Yeah this is what I was thinking as well about the melee combat training.

I knew off the bat the girl was going to be an OP'd jedi warrior from the preview, not Finn. The way a lot of movies have been going lately this seems to be the new thing. It just seems crazy to me how back in the day, male characters had to work their ass off and go through tragedy to even be on par with the main antagonist of the movie. Now these movies have a chick go through 5 minutes of talk/training and become overpowered.

Either way I liked Finn and Poe's interactions. I hope with more critics writing the same, disney will incorporate more of those scenes into the next two movies. A few more Jedi would be nice too. Definitely felt the nocholantness of Harrison Ford in this movie.

-CD

[Barron]

(12-19-2015 06:59 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 05:05 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Corny lines, bad acting, worse writing, and a fumbling pace make for a predictable rehash. I'll give it a generous 6/10 for neat visuals and a solid soundtrack.
None of the characters had any depth and their development is typical of a J.J. Abrams film... in that it is virtually non-existent.
Kylo Ren turned out to be a hipster wearing a helmet and I'd be willing to bet that Rey is gonna go Mudshark with Finn at some point.

The movie failed in every conceivable way. If you're determined to pay money for a big screen experience be my guest, but get drunk or high before doing so, it can only help.

I get this impression from all of Abrams' films. There's something soulless about his films..now I know why. There's not a single original thought in anything he does.

Lucas stole a lot from Kurosawa, eastern religion, serials, and flash gordan but he still brought all those elements together and wrote a mythology. He fucked it up later but the original work still stands.

Abrams is not a creator but an imitator. A person who makes updated copies of classics with retro hip fan fiction ideas thrown in. Hollywood is more of this these days than actual creative content.

Wonder what Christopher Nolan could do with Star Wars if he were given the helm? Too bad Disney owns it

[Tokyo Joe]

I wish there were something I could add to this discussion, but after a boyhood practically obsessed with Star Wars, I instantly lost all interest in that whole world the moment I hoisted my first erection.

The timing of that first wood was a tad unfortunate, popping as it did during this scene in a movie theater in May 1983 --




Even funnier to realize that Carrie Fisher went from Jabba the Hutt's sex slave to Jabba the Hutt --

[YossariansRight]

(12-20-2015 12:15 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 06:59 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 05:05 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Corny lines, bad acting, worse writing, and a fumbling pace make for a predictable rehash. I'll give it a generous 6/10 for neat visuals and a solid soundtrack.
None of the characters had any depth and their development is typical of a J.J. Abrams film... in that it is virtually non-existent.
Kylo Ren turned out to be a hipster wearing a helmet and I'd be willing to bet that Rey is gonna go Mudshark with Finn at some point.

The movie failed in every conceivable way. If you're determined to pay money for a big screen experience be my guest, but get drunk or high before doing so, it can only help.

I get this impression from all of Abrams' films. There's something soulless about his films..now I know why. There's not a single original thought in anything he does.

Lucas stole a lot from Kurosawa, eastern religion, serials, and flash gordan but he still brought all those elements together and wrote a mythology. He fucked it up later but the original work still stands.

Abrams is not a creator but an imitator. A person who makes updated copies of classics with retro hip fan fiction ideas thrown in. Hollywood is more of this these days than actual creative content.

Wonder what Christopher Nolan could do with Star Wars if he were given the helm? Too bad Disney owns it

Now you're talking! Ok! Yes!

[nomadbrah]

Watched Max Max Fury Road yesterday because Paracelsus wrote it wasn't that annoying. Have to disagree here, the film was ruined by feminism. The setting, the visuals, the score, everything was great, but it was utterly ruined by the feminist plot. I found the feminism in Mad Max to be a particularly disgusting kind. The main protagonist girl is doing absurd things for a small woman, the so called wives/sexslaves are of course neon haired, punk dressed, not really showing any skin and generally being snarky.

The worst by far though is the old cunts. No one, and I mean - no one - wants to see man hating old lesbians star in a Mad Max movie. I thought this movie deserved all the criticism from ROK and even that wasn't enough. There was zero, absolutely zero reason for the story to have female protagonists and a feminist subplot, it only detracted, pure crap.

With that said, I think if will definitely not watch the new Star Wars. I have very little tolerance for Hollywood degenerate propaganda and if Paracelsus seems to think Star Wars is worse with the feminism/multikulti than Mad Max, then forget about it. I can't watch propaganda disguised in entertainment anymore.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(12-20-2015 04:08 AM)southern120 Wrote:  

Even Jar Jar fucking Binks would have been welcome. My god .. what am I saying!!

[nomadbrah]

(12-20-2015 04:08 AM)southern120 Wrote:  

That line 'stop grabbing my hand I can run by myself'. It must have only been repeated twice, but shit it seemed like 50 times. Jesus Fuck.

Yep, this is what I mean. It was in Mad Max too, the sexslave girl saying "you know, you don't have to do what he says" to Mad Max their saviour.

I can watch this shit anymore, it reminds of a lost past where girls could actually be vulnerable on screen. This cold harshness, this removal of those very simple acts of female affection, now made out to be something to avoid desperately?

I find it evil, I truly do, a world void of normal healthy interaction between men and women. I want no part of that kind of propaganda.

[El Chinito loco]

(12-20-2015 12:15 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 06:59 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 05:05 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Corny lines, bad acting, worse writing, and a fumbling pace make for a predictable rehash. I'll give it a generous 6/10 for neat visuals and a solid soundtrack.
None of the characters had any depth and their development is typical of a J.J. Abrams film... in that it is virtually non-existent.
Kylo Ren turned out to be a hipster wearing a helmet and I'd be willing to bet that Rey is gonna go Mudshark with Finn at some point.

The movie failed in every conceivable way. If you're determined to pay money for a big screen experience be my guest, but get drunk or high before doing so, it can only help.

I get this impression from all of Abrams' films. There's something soulless about his films..now I know why. There's not a single original thought in anything he does.

Lucas stole a lot from Kurosawa, eastern religion, serials, and flash gordan but he still brought all those elements together and wrote a mythology. He fucked it up later but the original work still stands.

Abrams is not a creator but an imitator. A person who makes updated copies of classics with retro hip fan fiction ideas thrown in. Hollywood is more of this these days than actual creative content.

Wonder what Christopher Nolan could do with Star Wars if he were given the helm? Too bad Disney owns it

It would be interesting that's for sure. Nolan has done sci-fi plenty of times but he's more about character studies and subverting the genre than making a family friendly sci-fi film. Star Wars also sounds like the sort of project he'd turn down. It's just too steeped in its own mythos and commercial interests to really push the boundaries much.

Fortunately when he made the Batman films the franchise was nearly dead anyways and he had a lot of leeway to do what he wanted with that.

[Paracelsus]

Well, Harrison Ford's retirement has got to be paid for now: the guy was paid $34.7 million plus 0.5% of gross earnings to do Force Awakens.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/mov...04ce2a72cc

Compare that to what the other actors got:

Quote:

[Boyega and Ridley] were both paid $623,000 each.
Carrie Fisher was paid $2 million to play Princess Leia again and director J. J Abrams reportedly pocketed $6.8 million for making the movie.

I'd assume Mark Hamill got paid about $10,000 or so and Isaac somewhere in the quarter-mil range.

That's a massive number even by Hollywood standards. It's on the scale of getting Sean Connery to appear in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves for one minute (he got $250,000 for 2 minutes of screentime, $400,000 in inflation-adjusted terms -- although he donated it to charity).

The only way I can think of to explain that figure is that Ford was really, really not interested in coming back. Everyone has their price, and it smells to me like Disney and/or Abrams got royally played by Ford's agent or Disney was just determined to have everyone on board no matter the price. (Ford got somewhere around the $3 million mark or so, Bruce Willis's agreed wage, for Expendables 3).

The other thing I was thinking was: why would this come out now? Normally studios are pretty cagey about how much their actors are paid. I would not put it past Disney to have leaked this as a raised middle finger to Ford -- they weren't prepared to burn their own movie by having shitfights about pay ahead of the movie's opening weekend, but now that the film is out there and Ford is safely out of the franchise, they proceed to burn him hard for basically holding them to ransom. On the other hand, it's still kind of a fucking stupid own-goal to be this fickle since there is nothing to stop Hamill or Fisher now pulling the same stunt for Ep 8 and/or 9. (Compare Will Shatner and Leonard Nimoy's known tag-teaming over the Star Trek films: they had clauses in their contracts that if one of them got a bump-up in pay, or given a director's chair or whatever, the other would then get the same the next film along. They played this game through about five or six movies.)

[CactusCat589]

I wonder if the wage gap is going to be leapt on, by the usual suspects. I guarantee that no one will consider that Ford got paid a pittance when he took a chance with the original 1977 film.

I found out Harrison Ford is 73 right now, which is astonishing. He basically has the same build from almost forty years ago. Very strong hairline and still in shape, I'd have put him in his late 50s from watching him. Mark Hamill is younger and looks much worse, although in the end scene looked amazing as a sagacious old Jedi Master in exile.

I saw some of his more recent films, and I got to say this was the first signs of life I've seen from Ford. It does seem like he was unwilling to sign on at first, but I can't but help but wonder if he rediscovered the desire. He broke his leg in an accident on set, and pushed through. And he's changed as an actor too. When he bellows Kylo's real name, that's Harrison who has his life experience as a stern father to draw upon.

With Carrie Fisher, I think they legitimately could have recast that role, despite how sacrilegious it would've been. Frankly, she should've taken more care of herself, and then she might've made more money and had a bigger part.
But nonetheless, I'm glad she was able to keep the old cat lady craziness at bay long enough to film her parts.

[Paracelsus]

(12-20-2015 10:11 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

I wonder if the wage gap is going to be leapt on, by the usual suspects. I guarantee that no one will consider that Ford got paid a pittance when he took a chance with the original 1977 film.

$1,000 per week, to be exact. Interestingly Mark Hamill got paid about $650,000 plus a tiny proportion of some of the gross earnings from what I've been able to research, which means he actually got paid more, in inflation-adjusted terms, than Ridley or Boyega have.

[infowarrior1]

(12-20-2015 07:31 AM)memcpy Wrote:  

There was a scene where the black guy was supposed to kiss the white girl. Instead they hugged. The black guy actually ran to her like some sort of clingy girl. I guess Disney thought it was too risky to show a kiss between the two.

Let me guess. The man was friendzoned. In the same way Luke was(luckily) friendzoned.

[southern120]

(12-20-2015 10:11 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

...

I found out Harrison Ford is 73 right now, which is astonishing. He basically has the same build from almost forty years ago. Very strong hairline and still in shape, I'd have put him in his late 50s from watching him. Mark Hamill is younger and looks much worse, although in the end scene looked amazing as a sagacious old Jedi Master in exile.

I saw some of his more recent films, and I got to say this was the first signs of life I've seen from Ford. It does seem like he was unwilling to sign on at first, but I can't but help but wonder if he rediscovered the desire. He broke his leg in an accident on set, and pushed through. And he's changed as an actor too. When he bellows Kylo's real name, that's Harrison who has his life experience as a stern father to draw upon.

I wasn't a huge fan of Harrison Ford's performance this time round, but undoubtedly he has done the work to look after himself and maintain his physical and innner strength, unlike MH and CF who have fared worse with time than the Brady Bunch children. It just goes to show that early success is not a pass that allows you to stop the hard work. That's why people like Damon and Wahlberg will have another solid 25 years of employment to look forward to, despite being good but not great. A lesson for the rest of us as it surely applies outside the rarified world of hollywood.

[frozen-ace]

I came in with low expectations. I liked the movie, but there were too many things that bothered me-

The Millennium Falcon, which has been in a state of disrepair and covered in tarps for years in the desert, is able to fire up on the first try and is able to fly off into space?

And riddle me this-

If you lived on a small, remote island for 15 years, with no supply runs and no contact with the outside world, what do you think you would look like? I was expecting crazy hair and a huge beard, and dirty, functional clothes. Instead he had a nice robe, a trimmed beard and stylish hair.

What does Luke eat? He looked well-fed. As far as I could tell the only thing he could eat would be moss-covered rocks, an occasional sea bird and maybe some shoreline shellfish. Based on the nature of the island it would be a pretty meager existence at best, and at worst he should have died from malnutrition.

[The Beast1]

Hated the movie. What a waste of money.

The Star Wars Mad Libs post above really sums up my distaste. It was exactly the same movie as a New Hope.

Here are a few other questions of mine: the death planet.

This "death planet" that sucks up suns and redirects the energy to another planet makes no sense. Alright cool so does this planet move to new star systems? With the sun they use to suck up and redirect towards other planets gone, does the planet freeze to death?

The amount of multicultural bullshit makes me gag even more. Pans of female pilots, a "strong" white women, and a personal favorite of mine. A weak black man who follows her around. Will he get friend zoned in the later movies?

Save your money if you haven't seen it and wait for it to be released on the piratebay. Not worth the price of admission.

[Penta Sahi]

(12-20-2015 09:47 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

Well, Harrison Ford's retirement has got to be paid for now: the guy was paid $34.7 million plus 0.5% of gross earnings to do Force Awakens.

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/mov...04ce2a72cc

Compare that to what the other actors got:

Quote:

[Boyega and Ridley] were both paid $623,000 each.
Carrie Fisher was paid $2 million to play Princess Leia again and director J. J Abrams reportedly pocketed $6.8 million for making the movie.

I'd assume Mark Hamill got paid about $10,000 or so and Isaac somewhere in the quarter-mil range.

That's a massive number even by Hollywood standards. It's on the scale of getting Sean Connery to appear in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves for one minute (he got $250,000 for 2 minutes of screentime, $400,000 in inflation-adjusted terms -- although he donated it to charity).

The only way I can think of to explain that figure is that Ford was really, really not interested in coming back. Everyone has their price, and it smells to me like Disney and/or Abrams got royally played by Ford's agent or Disney was just determined to have everyone on board no matter the price. (Ford got somewhere around the $3 million mark or so, Bruce Willis's agreed wage, for Expendables 3).

The other thing I was thinking was: why would this come out now? Normally studios are pretty cagey about how much their actors are paid. I would not put it past Disney to have leaked this as a raised middle finger to Ford -- they weren't prepared to burn their own movie by having shitfights about pay ahead of the movie's opening weekend, but now that the film is out there and Ford is safely out of the franchise, they proceed to burn him hard for basically holding them to ransom. On the other hand, it's still kind of a fucking stupid own-goal to be this fickle since there is nothing to stop Hamill or Fisher now pulling the same stunt for Ep 8 and/or 9. (Compare Will Shatner and Leonard Nimoy's known tag-teaming over the Star Trek films: they had clauses in their contracts that if one of them got a bump-up in pay, or given a director's chair or whatever, the other would then get the same the next film along. They played this game through about five or six movies.)

Well, it seems that The Force Awakens raked in big time:

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634206/s...box-office

Quote:

Star Wars: The Force Awakens is officially a record-breaking hit, raking in at least $247 million in its opening weekend. To put that in perspective, The Force Awakens crushed Jurassic World's record-breaking $208.8 million opening weekend from this summer, and set a December opening record by tripling The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey's December 2012 opening of $84.6 million

I suspect some bean counter figured that Ford's star power would draw more than $XX million in to the movie over his salary, so Disney just said "fine pay him whatever".

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I was reading some reviews and realized that even though the famous reviewer Roger Ebert has been dead for years now, his website still continues to churn out reviews by some no-name shills (who naturally wrote a glowing SJW-themed review for this piece of trash). Jeez, let the deceased rest in peace! Enough of this parasitism!

Quote:

And it’s a treat to see beloved older characters placed beside new ones in situations that respect Lucas' myth-making but correct his flaws as a storyteller, including the default whiteness of his casts. Not only have Abrams and his co-writers, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt, centered the story on a young woman and a man of color (played respectively by Daisy Ridley and John Boyega), they've made them so compelling and quirky that the film never seems to be putting an up-to-date wrapping on moldy clichés.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/star-w...akens-2015

[LeeEnfield303]

Quote:

Jeez, let the deceased rest in peace! Enough of this parasitism!

Clear case of 'cinematic appropriation.' Horrible.


RE: 'strong female characters,' I remember Leia in 1977..... 1) uploading the Death Star files into R2D2 while her ship was being boarded 2) shooting a Stormtrooper in the chest 3) giving as good as she got when accused by Darth Vader 4) resisting torture in her cell 5) watching Tarkin blow up her home planet after lying to protect the Rebellion 6) wisecracking at Luke when he came to rescue her 7) kicking Han into a garbage chute 8) shooting random Stormtroopers 9) all while kibitzing and bantering with Han.

So, who was weak when? Help me here?

[Anti-Riot]

   

Uh-oh! They're calling Rey a Mary-Sue. Quick, defend the narrative defend the narrative!

Calling all white knights, to the ramparts!