[Surreyman]

This is one that the left have been talking about for a long time. They believe there's something wrong with hitting children to punish them.

I've got to say, I got hit once or twice as a kid when I deserved it, but it wasn't the first thing my parents would do, it was a last resort, and the fact they were prepared to do it was very significant in my mind as a child.

I'm against hitting as some kind of lazy or abusive parenting when the child interrupts you or something small like that, but surely it should be there as the 'big red button' for a parent?

What do you guys think, is this part of the decline of the west?

I'd be very interested to hear any RVF'ers with an opposing viewpoint.

[cedarpawn]

For my $0.02 I'm with you. I got hit from time to time as a kid, but I had it coming. I turned out ok. That's more than I can say for most other "millennials" I encounter as I go about the day. Hell, this entire sub-forum could probably be re-titled "things that happen when people don't whack their kids once in a while".

[StrikeBack]

I'm for it, as long as the following conditions are met:

- It is treated as the last resort
- No screaming abuses, no foul language
- Treated as a ritual of discipline, not a spontaneous emotion-packed spanking or the likes
- Only administered by the father, NEVER the mother.

I had my arse belted a few times as a kid, and it was done exactly as above. When I was 10, my father said now I could be reasoned with, so he retired the corporal punishment, although he did hint to bring it back a couple of times later during my early teenage years. For all of my childhood including the so-called rebellious teenage years, I had the utmost respect for my father, as I knew whenever he had to discipline me (with words or otherwise), it was fair and I deserved it. He only explained the last rule to me recently, as he said women (mothers) cannot control their emotions in those situations which will destroy the ritual and not inspire any respect in the children, especially male ones.

[Samseau]

(10-14-2014 07:46 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

I'm for it, as long as the following conditions are met:

- It is treated as the last resort
- No screaming abuses, no foul language
- Treated as a ritual of discipline, not a spontaneous emotion-packed spanking or the likes
- Only administered by the father, NEVER the mother.

I had my arse belted a few times as a kid, and it was done exactly as above. When I was 10, my father said now I could be reasoned with, so he retired the corporal punishment, although he did hint to bring it back a couple of times later during my early teenage years. For all of my childhood including the so-called rebellious teenage years, I had the utmost respect for my father, as I knew whenever he had to discipline me (with words or otherwise), it was fair and I deserved it. He only explained the last rule to me recently, as he said women (mothers) cannot control their emotions in those situations which will destroy the ritual and not inspire any respect in the children, especially male ones.

Yep. That's pretty much perfect fathering right there.

[Onto]

I was spanked a few times and once with a belt. Like StikeBack said, the heavy hand of discipline must come from the Father, not the Mother. It's the Mother's duty to temper the Father's merit-based love/punishment with her unconditional love.

That said, I have a son and never had to hit or spank him to keep him in line. Maybe I just got lucky, but there are many effective ways to discipline a child without hitting. However, as a boy gets older he always wants to test his strength against that of his Father, so it's wise to stay in good shape!

[PastTense]

I am violently opposed to any kind of punishment which result in injuries which need to be treated by a doctor.

[Basil Ransom]

Agree with all said above. Occasionally I see a child throwing a tantrum in public... And the parent, father or mother, gets JUST as agitated as the kid. THAT is not a person to whom I would entrust corporal punishment. If hitting a child is to be done at all (of which I'm unsure), it should definitely not be done out of anger. Then it becomes uncontrollable.

[Veloce]

[Pride male]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

[perverted sage]

Why do parents hit children because they know the children won't hit them back. If my father tried to hit me from the age of 15 and onward i would have smashed his teeth in and he knows that because when i was 15 i could go toe to toe with him in a fight(long story about how my father and me found this out and it wasn't a pleasant experience for him and he had to have the first aid kit applied to him). And one thing i have found about mothers they don't hit their sons when they are bigger then them and they know they don't have the control over them as they once had. So you can give corporal punishment to your kid but what happens when he can look you in the eye or grows bigger than you and lifts weights. Parents should communicate better with their children and should do so from an early age and apply disciplinary measures that excludes corporal punishment. How will you feel when your child grows strong enough and can throw you on the ground and takes that same belt and beats the crap out of you and says this hurts me more than it hurts you. It won't feel good would it and parents say this to children they can overpower easily and are about half or a third their size.

[StrikeBack]

^^ sounds like you were not subjected to corporal punishment, but abuses instead.

[Onto]

The one absolute truth about children is each and every one of them want to be loved by their parents.

As a Father, use that to your advantage.

[kosko]

Look at all the fucked up kids whom grew up not getting the spanks. You don't rely on it but its a necessary means of disipline.

I don't have kids so I can't comment. A father has tlnhold frame to mold his son into a stable man whom can take responsibility and to gain respect from his daughter so she always maintains that standing with him. Slapping them around isn't going to achieve that solely but its a very small tool that should only be used in extreme events to maintain concrete frame. Your kids should never fear you. I did fear my pops at times and he didn't re-frame his stature by teaching me the proper way after I didn't wrongs. Its one thing to instill disipline but in that moment it is impretive to teach or show by example the proper way so the child can asses "right" vs "wrong".

If my son gets caught stealing its not a round house on the butt it has to be me having a type of lesson on the other end so he can understand why it is wrong (he likley will know not not fully understand or care). I would likley make him do chores after the fact but not compensate him for it. I would exlain that you have to work to attain things you want and that next time the chores are done on good faith he would get some compensation towars purchasing the item he stole which was likley low cost to begin with. I would try to then explain if he is old enough to grasp the concept of me having to go each day to work to help him with the things he wants and that if I stole we would not have anything as I would have to labor for no compensation ... In jail (gotta troll with the extreme). To me that works way better then how my pops handled me stealing the first time by popping me shots and telling me not to do that again.

Maybe that is all to abstract for a child. I have no spawns so its easy for me to play father armchair QB on the matter but I feel a mix of disipline coupled with lesson teaching to provide the child the ability to weigh good from wrong in his own mind is important and idea .

[Phoenix]

It has to be on the table.

For some kids, being reprimanded, being shamed, being ignored, having things taken away etc will be enough to bring them in line with decent behaviour.
But some kids behave like complete assholes. Some of them engage in behaviour which would have them locked in a mental institution if they did it as adults. I've seen kids deliver running kicks to the nuts to other kids just because they weren't getting 100% verbal compliance from them. And some kids will see no problem trying to destroy their parents eardrums for hours with the most vicious screaming they can muster, just because they aren't getting something trivial that they want. Usually the parents respond with 'Ohhh, please don't do that little Johnny'. Ridiculous. In these situations the child is like a tyrant, and tyrants only know one thing - force.

If the child knows that unreasonable and violent behaviour results in unavoidable pain, that will go a long way to reigning them in.
Obviously it is the parents responsibility to ensure that the punishment is delivered reasonably, i.e. like a cool-headed judge laying down the law, versus as a result of the parents own feelings that day etc.

[TheWastelander]

Little kids are like little animals, you can't reason with them most of the time. You have to train them to do right and when they disobey or won't listen they need a good spanking.

Just take a look at the kids of parents who don't practice spanking or the animals of pet owners who never smacked them.

They're hellish.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Frankly spanking it is only fine within a short period of development between 2-4 max. Because in that period a child may have an emotional sissy fit unable to be controlled or reasoned with via any means. That kind of light spanking is similar to a woman getting bitch-slapped to bring her back to her senses.
As a form of punishment it is counter-productive on many levels - if your child will not listen to you or be reasoned with from age 2 on, then you have failed to a degree. While children are different I see my cousins (completely unvaccinated, developing faster than 98% of their peers) be quite intelligent and lucid in their understanding of right and wrong. You just have to tell them something and they know what they have to do.

So no - corporal punishment is practically never necessary and certainly never above age 4 or even 3. Discipline when administered via a father usually works better and there are so many ways on how to convey a message, that it is truly useless now. If young dogs can understand when their master is not happy with them, don't you think that children don't know when you are not satisfied with them?

Also you have to take into consideration that many many guys who are incarcerated have been beaten by their single mothers constantly when they were children. It did shit to teach them discipline. It only created emotionally warped individuals.

[perverted sage]

(10-14-2014 11:10 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

^^ sounds like you were not subjected to corporal punishment, but abuses instead.

No i was not subjected to physical abuse,the thing is people will think twice before hitting another person because they know they can get hurt when that person retaliates. Parents of small children hit their kids as punishment because they know they are not strong enough to retaliate. If you think that corporal punishment works for changing behavior then go up to the guy that is acting like a jerk in the bar or anywhere else and try to give him corporal punishment but you won't do that will you or at least won't do it without taking into consideration that this guy can do some damage to me. But you will do this to children that can be easily overpowered.

[The Beast1]

All for it. Sometimes a spanking and a backwards slap to the face is appropriate depending on the circumstances.

I always talked back to my parents. Little kids aren't going to do it to me.

[Felix88]

I'm against spanking and beating children, I've seen enough people became thugs and criminals just because their parents beat them when they were kids, shit, I even had thought about burning down my house when my parents beat me when I was a kid.

[Old Fritz]

Aside from a few spanks with the hand; I am against it.

Most parents don't know how to properly discipline their child. They tell them something is wrong but never explain why. Telling your children that something is wrong doesn't really say anything in itself. They give them beatings while projecting much of their anger on the child in the process. Some parents use sticks to beat their children. Other parents punch or knock them against a wall. That shit doesn't do anything but instill an unhealthy amount of fear into the child. Either that or they grow to hate you.

I think it's much more effective to take privileges and toys away or to give them more chores. When my siblings were younger; I forced them to do push ups and squats until they started crying and sweating. Also, put them on bathroom and dishes for a month while taking their games away. This prevented them from making the same mistake.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

OP - seems like you've got your consensus - practically all are against spanking as punishment - maybe only light spankings at a very early age with no corporal punishment whatsoever later on.

Misogynist and brutal men that we are here - thinking that discipline is best conveyed through our voice and bearing - similar to a dog, who you cannot beat at all, since a dog will not even understand that kind of behavior in any constructive manner.

[Enigma]

(10-15-2014 11:20 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

OP - seems like you've got your consensus - practically all are against spanking as punishment - maybe only light spankings at a very early age with no corporal punishment whatsoever later on.

Misogynist and brutal men that we are here - thinking that discipline is best conveyed through our voice and bearing - similar to a dog, who you cannot beat at all, since a dog will not even understand that kind of behavior in any constructive manner.

A post in favor of punishment with a belt has 10x more likes than any other post in this thread

And physical punishment is used by some of the most successful trainers in the world. Not everyone does it, but it has been shown effective time and again.

[TheWastelander]

(10-15-2014 08:30 AM)Felix88 Wrote:  

I'm against spanking and beating children, I've seen enough people became thugs and criminals just because their parents beat them when they were kids, shit, I even had thought about burning down my house when my parents beat me when I was a kid.

I don't believe half the reasons seasoned criminals give to try to excuse their criminality. By their very nature they're duplicitous, untrustworthy scoundrels.

[Felix88]

^Actually, I grew up with quite a few of them, and the changes of their personalities after being beaten up repeatedly by their parents or teachers are quite staggering.

[Surreyman]

(10-15-2014 11:20 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

OP - seems like you've got your consensus - practically all are against spanking as punishment - maybe only light spankings at a very early age with no corporal punishment whatsoever later on.

Misogynist and brutal men that we are here - thinking that discipline is best conveyed through our voice and bearing - similar to a dog, who you cannot beat at all, since a dog will not even understand that kind of behavior in any constructive manner.

No, it seems split between those agreeing, and those attacking some kind of straw man.

Nobody was talking about 'beating' kids, I don't know why a smack is being conflated with it, that's clearly something else.