[WestIndianArchie]

1. Untrue. Manosphere guys are actually very in touch with their true desires. It's what makes the movement scary.

2. Whatever emotional deficiency put upon men, is usually the result of men trying to express their feelings to women, and then not getting the proper response. Women have a tendency to punish those who share with them

3. After I bang a girl using game, she tends to stick around. I am usually the one that loses interest. Game doesn't fool girls. There's no trickery. If Game does fool anyone, it's guys. Biology dictates that we attempt to plant our seeds in fertile soil © RZA but the reality is that the women we are often attracted to our terrible people.

Not because they are attractive - but deep down the things that make them attractive also make them repulsive. After you bang a chick out, and start to see the real her, the person behind the facade, more often than not, you realize who she truly is. Rarely is that comforting. Luckily there are chemicals in the brain that push you to pair bond despite what your logical mind is thinking.

It's the "red flags in hindsight"

4. Psychopaths excel at game, but they don't get the same reward as the rest of us, I imagine.

WIA

[Phoenix]

Presumptive. Also agree this is troll-like.

Most men here are just looking to 'get wise' and to maximize their life outcomes. They are not emotionally deficient.

I absolutely love women (western women not so much, their rudeness and arrogance triggers my disgust instinct more so). A natural, feminine woman makes me feel damn happy. If all that mattered was using a warm hole for gratification I'd go to brothels.

[tiggaling]

I think there is something to be said for what your therapist said.

Many of us got started later in life, and may not put things together in the same way that other people put them together.

But many in the manosphere would say that how society put things together is entirely "blue pill", it is a dud reality, but rationalised to be "normal" or "sane".

All this therapy/psychology/psychiatry stuff hinges on there being a "normal"/blue pill ideals, which is deemed to be healthy. But I think in this day and age, the fallacy of this standard of mental/emotional health in a sick society, is very much hamsterised logic.

Who, in western society, is able to form emotional bonds? Not so many people it would seem to me. Most people are just working too long hours and apart from a very small number of therapists in training, don't give any priority to forming emotional bonds.

For sure, the manosphere I think does in general tend to attract smarty pants outsiders/outliers, who are not following the standard routes society lays down for them.

Yes, I do think many of us would do well to admit we have difficulty forming emotional bonds. (Mark Manson says this about himself in his book Models.) But many of us also are seeing, have seen, that is an overall huge problem in western society.

And anglo women, its often they don't want to form emotional bonds and have often lost that womenly ability to form emotional bonds. The onus is less on the man, but when women have become men, society is in really bad shape!

Much of this site is about travelling out of the west in search of greener pastures in terms of women, and a lot of men in the manosphere are in different stages of where they are at and what they want in their interactions with women.

I'd say many men on this site, are looking to meet foreign women who are women, with whom they can feel like they are a man! Different men may be seeking one night stands, mini relationships or even a life partner or a mother for their children.

All of this is valid in the exploration of what it is to be a man.

There is no standard guy, or guy story here. It is too easy to write off the manosphere as a bunch of guys who can't handle emotional intimacy.

For many of the guys I know who are into this, including myself, it isn't that we can't handle emotional intimacy, it is that the emotional intimacy we are wanting is often absent, and people/women find us quite intense. We have to create the reality we want for ourselves, whatever that may be.

This doesn't mean settling for the first emotionally available female and forming emotional bonds (meaning marriage and kids) This clearly isn't a paradigm that is working for most people in western culture.

[Dalaran1991]

WIA again nail the board here.

The only thing I would add, is that unless you are seriously fucked up beyond repair in the head, stop talking and taking advice from therapists on these kind of personality issues. As a sociology and psychology grad I got to peek a bit into the mental practice and I can tell you its the most blue pill and politically correct bullshit ever invented by healthcare. Most of the time they just sit there and listen to your problem as a way for you to express your "uninhibited dissonances" and other jargons they invented to keep them professionnal looking.

After a oneitis i went to therapy every week for two year straight. One year in France and one in USA. It adds nothing to my life except taking away 3h/week. Everything changes by going out and approaching.

As the saying go, if you think you are crazy, you are probably not. The world has socialize us to think there s a problem with us with every little detail

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-15-2014 05:55 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

WIA again nail the board here.

The only thing I would add, is that unless you are seriously fucked up beyond repair in the head, stop talking and taking advice from therapists on these kind of personality issues. As a sociology and psychology grad I got to peek a bit into the mental practice and I can tell you its the most blue pill and politically correct bullshit ever invented by healthcare. Most of the time they just sit there and listen to your problem as a way for you to express your "uninhibited dissonances" and other jargons they invented to keep them professionnal looking.

After a oneitis i went to therapy every week for two year straight. One year in France and one in USA. It adds nothing to my life except taking away 3h/week. Everything changes by going out and approaching.

As the saying go, if you think you are crazy, you are probably not. The world has socialize us to think there s a problem with us with every little detail

It could be that therapists and medical establishment types have the OP's best interest in mind.

You take the Red Pill and then realize all the pretty little lies that you tell yourself to get through the day...suddenly life isn't worth living.

What do you mean I can't just get a job and stay there forever?
What do you mean I can't just be myself and find a worthy mate?
What do you mean I can't just shovel this horrible food into my mouth?
What do you mean I can't just veg out and watch Avengers 17?

Freedom? The Truth?

I don't want to know these things
I am upset by them.
I can't rely on everything that I thought was true.

What is to become of me?

WIA

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"One of the deficiencies faced by many men in the manosphere is their inability to form true emotional attachment with people, specially women. Since many of us lacked valuable experience since young age, usually since our early 20s, we never developed key mental processes which lead to form emotional attachment."

Totally wrong premise. Most guys, from what I gather, formed pretty good bonds with women...

...after which they were emotionally body slammed to the point where they were shattered. After picking up the pieces, they went online saying "I did everything I was supposed to do. Where did I go wrong?"

The manosphere is where they found some direction, if not answers. If the guys in question had never developed bonds, they wouldn't be here. They'd either be natural players who didn't need all this or total omega losers who either dismiss this kind of talk or are too socially-unaware to consider the topics we discuss here.

"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist" -- George Carlin

[RockHard]

Quote:

An obvious example as you learn Game is when you manage to bang a girl, but she stops responding after some bangs/dates. While many in the manosphere will point that she went to bang the next alpha in the pipeline, sometimes it just means our clear inability to form (or at least make her hamster believe to) a true emotional attachment, which all women crave.

Or maybe it's because SHE'S unable to form a true emotional attachment, because that statement assumes that men don't crave emotional attachment and it's merely an act we put on to attract women. Who ditched whom? The guy is online trying to figure out why she stopped responding. Is the girl online asking people why she quit responding? Who's making the effort here? Since it's the woman who stopped responding, it's likely the guy fucked up, but in what way? Your therapist may be right, but he (she?) jumped on the guy for being unable to form an emotional attachment, OR MAKE HER HAMSTER BELIEVE... wait, is that our job as men? To make her hamster believe? To get her to rationalize that you're emotionally invested in her? Is this what your therapist advocates? There's a name for this kind of behavior...

Let's read something serious: http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-4/

It's long, with a shitload of psych jargon. A lot of his analysis goes into codependency vs. narcissism. A lot of what we call "blue pill" is codependency - thinking that you need to be her supporter, to fix her shit, that all she needs (and what she really wants) is a "good guy". The flip side of that is to conclude that she actually wants a bad guy. For some that's what it means to be "red pill".

Quote:

A major problem with the PUA stuff is that it attacks the symptoms of one’s disease and not the actual disease itself. Most of the solutions are surface solutions. So you feel better in the short run and get some quick results, but ultimately you do worse in the long run.
...
The pickup artist prescription feels good at first, but it doesn’t attack the real self-esteem and insecurity issues and allows them to keep growing underneath the surface, so the moment you get some form of ego bruising or a setback, all the old feelings of low self-esteem and ego-bruising come rushing back to the forefront of your awareness.

i.e. focusing on tactics, to the exclusion of a greater goal.

Another nice quote:

Quote:

Your ultimate goal should be your dignity and self-respect, not passing the tests of damaged women, which is a redundant phrase anyway because only damaged women test that excessively anyway. If she’s doing bitch-shields and consistently shit-testing, she is by definition damaged anyway. When you pass the tests and jump through the hoops and it gets you laid, you may feel okay with it, but when you don’t get the sex, you’ll totally hate yourself for compromising your integrity and dignity for nothing.

I recommend reading the whole thing. There's a bunch of linked posts as well.

"Red pill" at its core means that you recognize a simple fact: MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT. We have different motivations, different mechanisms, different means. There may be genetic reasons for this, there are definitely social reasons for this. The bottom line is, gender matters.

"Red pill" in The Matrix sense means that you see things for what they are, not what you wish they were. That's where the term "red pill" comes from, and the reason is that in the movie, the Red Pill is the prop to show the difference between recognizing the reality of the Matrix and living the lie the machines want you to. It's an analogy. There's no pill you can take. It's a mental journey.

The bottom line: yes, we have emotional deficiencies. Very, very few people are fully self-actualized. What your therapist is (apparetly) not saying is that this is not necessarily all about you. It takes 2 people to have a relationship. The underlying assumption throughout society (at least in the US) is that women are good at relationships and men suck at them. Question that assumption. What drives it? Is it that men are naturally emotionally stunted, or that we just don't recognize women's behaviors for what they are and provide corrective guidance as we should?

[Constitution45]

As so many millennials and men raised in feminist households. Being a man and "emotionally open" is just going to see you torn apart. As a man you have to embrace rejection, being disposable and all in all by yourself, to a greater degree than women will ever experience. Banter and other masculine traits which are viewed as being undesirable and vile by feminists and such, are used because they actually help men former stronger shells and become more desirable to women in the long run. Can't go wrong with trial and error eh.

[The Beast1]

Psychologists have a tendency to pathologize normal male behavior since men generally aren't as compliant as women.

Modern psychology can blow some donkey c*ck as a useless pseudoscience that doesn't help anyone. A good psychologist would push someone to change their ways and regularly check up on them to ensure that they're making progress.

Then again, we call those personal trainers.

[Downtown]

Not all therapists are bad. I found a guy who believes that any sexual behavior is ok as long as: youre honest, you're safe, and its all consensual.

and that said, sometimes those who seek therapy are likely to be more emotionally sound because they actually realize that a) we are all deficient in some way and b) are willing to work on it

its those who are ignorant and do nothing about it who are the true deficients.

[Ternarydemonite]

Thank you for (some) intelligent, mature responses. I must add that English is my second language and as I edited the post and shuffled sentences, some things were lost in translation. My therapist is a he, not a [s]he, and I am not a troll.

I go to a therapist mainly to get a second opinion on personal issues, especially if such opinions are antagonist to what I believe is the truth. I don't think one must assume to have all the answers.

Curiously, my therapist is quite red-pill, in his 50s, and regularly engages in BDSM sessions with women 20 years younger. While he agrees in principle with many manosphere concepts, the reason for the post came after a session where we discussed the lack, or lack of, emotional attachment between the modern man and woman, mainly after quick bangs which end in either of us loosing interest. In my case, sometimes I long for something else after the bang, and such is mostly a remnant from being blue-pill so many years.

You could say that I am still at a system shock, torn between accepting a red-pill view of the world, while trying to balance it with the blue-pill ideas I was raised into.

[WestIndianArchie]

(10-15-2014 12:47 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

Curiously, my therapist is quite red-pill, in his 50s, and regularly engages in BDSM sessions with women 20 years younger.

Why would your therapist share this with you?

WIA

[The Beast1]

(10-15-2014 01:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 12:47 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

Curiously, my therapist is quite red-pill, in his 50s, and regularly engages in BDSM sessions with women 20 years younger.

Why would your therapist share this with you?

WIA

Even with 150+ posts I still smell troll on this guy especially with a line like that.

[Ternarydemonite]

(10-15-2014 01:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 12:47 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

Curiously, my therapist is quite red-pill, in his 50s, and regularly engages in BDSM sessions with women 20 years younger.

Why would your therapist share this with you?

WIA

Not in details of course, just as a fun fact, precisely because he is the red-pill, anti-establishment type of therapist.

[Giovonny]

Based on my experiences of reading this forum and meeting guys from this forum. The most common emotional deficiencies I've observed are:

1) A lack of confidence and self belief.

2) Bitterness caused from their unrealistic expectations not matching up with reality.

3) Feelings of not being loved, feelings of not being accepted, supported and embraced.

4) Inferiority complex

5) Loneliness

6) A lack of self expression.

7) A lack of direction and purpose.

[TheRookie]

(10-15-2014 12:47 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

Curiously, my therapist is quite red-pill, in his 50s, and regularly engages in BDSM sessions with women 20 years younger

[Sp5]

(10-15-2014 01:40 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 01:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 12:47 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

Curiously, my therapist is quite red-pill, in his 50s, and regularly engages in BDSM sessions with women 20 years younger.

Why would your therapist share this with you?

WIA

Not in details of course, just as a fun fact, precisely because he is the red-pill, anti-establishment type of therapist.

Are you German? If so, I understand.

[Nomad77]

Game is a skill set, how it is used creates the results you get. Unfortunately, everything in life has a price and we don't always know what that price is until after. Novelty, all types of novelty, wires our brain to be addicted to new stuff. Every time we get a new thing we get a dopamine spike and feel a little high. But pretty soon that high wears off and we need something else to feel the high again. This is the problem people have with smartphones and the Internet. It is what makes us ADD. We have a difficult time focusing on anything for too long because we are constantly seeking the next new thing. And it's the same with using Game to bang a lot of girls. Roosh can't have a relationship with any girl because he's become addicted to the novelty of banging new girls. We cannot form emotional attachments to anything if we are constantly seeking novelty. Novelty is like a drug and a very powerful one at that. You cannot go out picking up women every week and expect to be satisfied with just one regardless of how good she is. I don't think we are emotionally deficient. I think we (everyone these days) has become addicted to novelty to various degrees. And this prevents us from being able to appreciate and partake of longer-term relationships. It also have a range of other side effects.

Everything in life has a price, including picking up and banging a lot of girls. Just picking up girls is enough to give you a high. And the more you do it the more addicted you become to doing it because your brain becomes wired to the high from that activity. It's all part of our consumption based society. In America we are programmed to a high degree to become addicted to novelty. It's why we upgrade our phones and cars every few years. It's why we always want to get the latest gadget. It's why our news have now become just entertainment. And it's why we can't be happy in our relationships anymore. Because we can't be happy with our old stuff why would our relationships be any different. Our happiness is now a product of novelty and the consumption mentally that's the foundation of our economy. 30 - 50 years ago we valued quality over quantity. We had an appreciation for quality products and quality women. Today, we no longer even know what that is. We have a disposable society and everything in it, including relationships and people, have now become disposable too.

[YossariansRight]

(10-15-2014 04:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Game is a skill set, how it is used creates the results you get. Unfortunately, everything in life has a price and we don't always know what that price is until after. Novelty, all types of novelty, wires our brain to be addicted to new stuff. Every time we get a new thing we get a dopamine spike and feel a little high. But pretty soon that high wears off and we need something else to feel the high again. This is the problem people have with smartphones and the Internet. It is what makes us ADD. We have a difficult time focusing on anything for too long because we are constantly seeking the next new thing. And it's the same with using Game to bang a lot of girls. Roosh can't have a relationship with any girl because he's become addicted to the novelty of banging new girls. We cannot form emotional attachments to anything if we are constantly seeking novelty. Novelty is like a drug and a very powerful one at that. You cannot go out picking up women every week and expect to be satisfied with just one regardless of how good she is. I don't think we are emotionally deficient. I think we (everyone these days) has become addicted to novelty to various degrees. And this prevents us from being able to appreciate and partake of longer-term relationships. It also have a range of other side effects.

Everything in life has a price, including picking up and banging a lot of girls. Just picking up girls is enough to give you a high. And the more you do it the more addicted you become to doing it because your brain becomes wired to the high from that activity.

^^^Good stuff there.

We are the product of our environments. Some folks were lucky enough to be born lucky, others weren't. Either scenario is going to leave lasting impressions on us and that includes how we process life and everything that happens in it, game included.

[almohajem]

(10-15-2014 04:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Game is a skill set, how it is used creates the results you get. Unfortunately, everything in life has a price and we don't always know what that price is until after. Novelty, all types of novelty, wires our brain to be addicted to new stuff. Every time we get a new thing we get a dopamine spike and feel a little high. But pretty soon that high wears off and we need something else to feel the high again. This is the problem people have with smartphones and the Internet. It is what makes us ADD. We have a difficult time focusing on anything for too long because we are constantly seeking the next new thing. And it's the same with using Game to bang a lot of girls. Roosh can't have a relationship with any girl because he's become addicted to the novelty of banging new girls. We cannot form emotional attachments to anything if we are constantly seeking novelty. Novelty is like a drug and a very powerful one at that. You cannot go out picking up women every week and expect to be satisfied with just one regardless of how good she is. I don't think we are emotionally deficient. I think we (everyone these days) has become addicted to novelty to various degrees. And this prevents us from being able to appreciate and partake of longer-term relationships. It also have a range of other side effects.

Everything in life has a price, including picking up and banging a lot of girls. Just picking up girls is enough to give you a high. And the more you do it the more addicted you become to doing it because your brain becomes wired to the high from that activity. It's all part of our consumption based society. In America we are programmed to a high degree to become addicted to novelty. It's why we upgrade our phones and cars every few years. It's why we always want to get the latest gadget. It's why our news have now become just entertainment. And it's why we can't be happy in our relationships anymore. Because we can't be happy with our old stuff why would our relationships be any different. Our happiness is now a product of novelty and the consumption mentally that's the foundation of our economy. 30 - 50 years ago we valued quality over quantity. We had an appreciation for quality products and quality women. Today, we no longer even know what that is. We have a disposable society and everything in it, including relationships and people, have now become disposable too.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this.

I have a question though: Do you think in the last 10 years the change to the Instant Economy/Life has become faster? In the last 5 years? In the last 2 years?

I feel things are getting worse quicker than before. Just look at how many smartphones are released every year.

[Nomad77]

Yes, like any kind of addiction it accelerates and it going to continue to get worse until we basically burn ourselves out. The key to happiness is not more of anything, it's less. It's all about balance. It's about resetting our expectations and what brings us joy. The law of diminishing returns is always at play. Each additional unit of consumption, including women, brings less and less joy. Just like drugs we need more and more to experience even half the joy we did going from nothing to the first unit/girl. But like any addict we can't stop, we just have to keep going until we are numb and we can't feel anything anymore. We are then forced to do a complete reset.

The guy that bangs five new women in one week will be less happy than the guy that bangs his first girl in six months. Nature always seeks balance and enforces it one way or another...

PS And I am speaking from my own personal experience.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

There is very little introspection in the Manosphere.

Topics concerning end game usually come from the mouths of game denialists, so it is easy to toss them aside without thinking them through. As players we have entered a new matrix, with a series of new rules, but regardless it is still a matrix and the rules have been collectivized. There are certain notions of this "new matrix" that go unquestioned, such as, for instance, that the goal of every player should be to "fuck as many birds as possible", or that marriage and family is unthinkable. I will not debate these particular points, but I 'am' arguing that they have been elevated to pure dogma. The response you get from a so-called "red-piller" when debating end game is similar to that of debating the existence of God with a Christian. You don't get that spirit of seeking the truth, of relentessly questioning one's beliefs. That was the reason we "swallowed the red pill" in the first place.

At first, we were in a matrix where our ideas coincided with those of everyone else. And now, we all think equally about many things, certain points that should never be questioned. If there is ever an indicator to question one's beliefs it is when they are the same as everyone else's. If you think the same way everyone around you does, even in an isolated corner of the Internet, you know there is something wrong and you have some introspection to do. But introspection means battling face-to-face with your ego, and that is a battle most people cannot fight.

Think of R-selection. In the West, most women seek out casual sex, pursue careers and avoid long-term commitment to men. They ALL do it, they ALL think equally. Ideological contagion. Now, in the above statement, replace the word "women" with "men". The phrase still makes sense. As men we are just as vulnerable to this phenomenon. We take on the values of our society without even realizing, we don't wonder if it acts against our happiness, or if we are "victims of society". Those are things we call women, but women don't realize it is happening to them any more than WE realize it is happening to US.

As an older player looking back into the past, I ask myself many questions and I try to pinpoint where I went wrong so I never make the same mistakes again. Did meaningless sex with women I never saw again ever make me happy? Not really. Was the woman's beauty always directly proportional to my happiness? Not always. There were only a few times when I was truly happy, a reduced number of special people throughout my journey that stuck out. Those people will probably be the last thing I remember before dying, I won't remember my career or my hobbies, those things were just there to pass the time. Only the people, the few ones that made me happy, will matter.

Why then did I pursue these things, and why did I make the mistakes that I did? I did it because of ego and ideological contagion. "I am not going to the gym for girls, I am doing it for me. I am not fucking lots of girls to prove anything to the world or to my former beta self, or because I must prove to myself that I can do what he can do, or 'this is what players do. I don't pump and dump women because I grew up a society that taught me that is the way to behave. Women are for sex, love doesn't exist... I don't understand how a man and a woman can share a human bond, society taught me love was social construct, a commercial farce. Must every bond lead to marriage, can there not be even temporary commitment without marriage... or even, what is the role of family in a man's life? Surely family must have no place in my life, surely all those societies of the past were caught up in primitive ways." Not long ago sex became an act of hatred, almost of vengeance, over a lost love or a history of disrespect.

I recently read Roosh's epilogue on Anna. There was one paragraph that stuck out to me:

"Even after this experience, I feel no more comfortable committing to any woman. The idea of love and living happily ever after is an abstract fantasy that becomes less likely with every passing year. I’m essentially re-living the same thing over and over again, running in the same hamster wheel but in different places with different women, and soon I will meet another Anna and let her go too. How absurd it is to be so capable of meeting good women but choose loneliness instead! It’s loneliness to some, but freedom to me, and I choose this freedom over creating a family, freedom over long-term relationships with good women. And I’m prepared, I think, to live with that choice."

The freedom and independence of Western civilization. This paragraph saddened me, because it is so eerily close to how women think. It reminded me of how, in the West, everything good in life was wiped out by meager ideas.

[Nomad77]

Very true. We are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

[Vitriol]

(10-14-2014 05:43 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  

In such regard, our view of Game and women is usually biased by a narrow point of view, almost genital in nature, ignoring key emotional aspects which ultimately are shared by all human beings in one form or another. An obvious example as you learn Game is when you manage to bang a girl, but she stops responding after some bangs/dates. While many in the manosphere will point that she went to bang the next alpha in the pipeline, sometimes it just means our clear inability to form (or at least make her hamster believe to) a true emotional attachment, which all women crave. Once she detects that not only we only want to fuck her, but that we only know how to fuck her, she of course leaves to search for men who can provide the complete package. Psychopaths excel at Game since they know how to create such attachment in the mind of a woman, instead of just knowing which buttons to push to get a quick bang.

What your therapist told you (assuming this is true) is actually common ground the those of us who have been around for awhile. Guys who give her "the key emotional aspects" are the Beta Bucks types who he's trying to spin as somehow morally superior, even though they form more of a visceral attraction to emotionally distant alphas who they will fuck without knowing too well, and "accidently" get pregnant from in a nightclub bathroom. Obviously, it's in a woman's interest to keep men in the dark about this and there are tons of posts about it floating around the manosphere. Your therapist is trying to turn you into a guy who spends money on expensive dates and weddings under the guise of saying that's the "emotionally mature" thing to do, even though it's a total lie and woman stop maturing emotionally much earlier than men.

I strongly suspect that he's probably a hippie baby boomer also, who has an inflated salary for doing little to no work because he was born at the right time in history. Bottom line: he's full of shit and therapists need to create concepts like this out of thin air to keep their clients thinking and the money coming in.

OnlyMarryInTajikistan Wrote:

There are certain notions of this "new matrix" that go unquestioned, such as, for instance, that the goal of every player should be to "fuck as many birds as possible", or that marriage and family is unthinkable. I will not debate these particular points, but I 'am' arguing that they have been elevated to pure dogma. The response you get from a so-called "red-piller" when debating end game is similar to that of debating the existence of God with a Christian. You don't get that spirit of seeking the truth, of relentessly questioning one's beliefs. That was the reason we "swallowed the red pill" in the first place.

This is a straw man argument. I don't think anyone on here is totally dogmatic about their beliefs or saying they know everything. However, there are certain truths about female and even male behavior that are pretty much universal. If you read the farmer's almanac and it accurately predicts what time the sun will rise and set every day throughout the entire year, does that suddenly become "too dogmatic" for us to pay attention to? When you know that the divorce rate in a place like the U.S. is very high, and the consequences are disastrous for men should you just bite the bullet or go to a 3rd world country where you won't have to deal with that? This has already been addressed ad nauseum on the forum.

[RockHard]

(10-16-2014 10:24 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

Guys who give her "the key emotional aspects" are the Beta Bucks types who he's trying to spin as somehow morally superior, even though they form more of a visceral attraction to emotionally distant alphas who they will fuck without knowing too well, and "accidently" get pregnant from in a nightclub bathroom.

Actually, if this therapist isn't totally full of shit, and plays the dom game, then he's got a point. If that's what you're into, you invest in a chick because you don't really get that into that stuff in a ONS. But is that the point? Is that what OP is after?

And you have a point, because most people in the S&M community I've run into are very much the "morally superior" type. That's why there's all the rules & rituals they have around sex.