[Nomad77]

Girls are emotional creatures and American and Western girls are neurotic. Expecting them to act with any kind of consistency is like expecting beautiful weather every day. The bottom line, you cannot read into any single event or behavior of a girl as having any significance even though sometimes they can be. You have to evaluate her over an extended period of time like a month.

[Vaun]

I really dont see the point of hanging out with attractive women if they are showing zeros signs of being sexually attracted to you, unless its for business or is a close personal friend you yourself have zero interest in sexually. Lots of women want buddies and male friends, I just choose not to be one. I have too many friends and loved ones in my own life that deserve more of my time, than someone who just needs another person to lunch with.

[iknowexactly]

(09-24-2014 04:17 PM)OnlyMarryInTajikistan Wrote:  

.........
You may say she is a good girl. You may ask if there are any good girls in America. The answer is no. ......

Lolzllzlzl this cracks me up. I am the pinko librul chode of RVF, OMIT's views are Totilitarian.

You're sure all through the Midwest, the Rockies, Jersey, Arizona.. you will search in vain for one female with a heart?

I advocate more compassion, affection and-- God forbid-- TRUST with an educated upper middle class girl like this.

I like the OPs approach, and want to add another thing.
It is good to kiss her and let her see that you'll stop if she doesn't cooperate.

Now she feels safe with you, and she will be more willing to spend time with you in intimate settings that foster sexual behavior.

[Nomad77]

Correct, it's about expressing your intent. It's not about forcing yourself on the girl. You just want to let her know, in no uncertain terms, that you are sexually attracted to her - that's if you are of course...

[Courage Reborn]

Once you go for the kiss, the chase is over.

Women want the chase. The intrigue, and uncertainty.

"what are his intentions?" Jane Austin shit.

Once she knows, under no uncertain terms that you want fuck, before she knows if she wants to fuck you too, you no longer have any cards to play.

If you got head turned 3 times by an honest girl who isn't playing games, you forced her to decide too soon. "do I want to kiss him? No."

Driving home..."Do I even like him? I guess not"

Sounds to me like you took the goose out of the oven too early.

[Nomad77]

This is never really a problem for me. Because girls usually perceive me as pretty high value I have to give a lot to merely convince them I am really interested in them. Let's see how it plays out...she's in a complicated situation.

[Comte De St. Germain]

It's threads like these that remind me why I game period. It's all about the thrill of the chase. Everything else besides sex kind of gets me down.

[jariel]

(09-25-2014 09:13 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

If you got head turned 3 times by an honest girl who isn't playing games, you forced her to decide too soon. "do I want to kiss him? No."

Driving home..."Do I even like him? I guess not"

Sounds to me like you took the goose out of the oven too early.

I once had a Costa Rican girl head turning throughout the night and then finally tell me that it was Costa Rican tradition to not kiss on the first date -- as all the guys who've been to Costa Rica read this, I can hear you laughing.

She called me the next day.

You can imagine what happened next.

You have to understand that the rejection doesn't mean anything, where you find meaning is in what happens afterwards.

[Nomad77]

Whether or not I go for a kiss or how sexually aggressive I am initially actually varies based on my read of a girl's self-esteem. The lower the girl's self-esteem the more aggressive I am because I want to validate her and make her feel good about herself. The higher a girl's self-esteem (usually related to her beauty) the less aggressive I am sexually. I without validation.

For example, I was out with a Mexican TV actress today an 8 or so and I didn't try to kiss her. I did try to get her into a Victoria's Secrets dressing room. But those damn rooms are kept locked. You have to ask an employee to open one for you. And they don't allow men back there because once she opened the door she kicked me out and told me wait outside. If that damn door was open, once inside of that room, she would have gotten the full treatment.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-24-2014 08:05 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 07:29 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

Whats with 'R selection' and 'K selection' nowadays.

Sounds like unnecessary science for this, in my opinion.

It's the new way of saying Alpha/Beta, and it sounds more science-y than bad boy/nerd.

WIA

That is a misunderstanding of terms. It has nothing to do with alpha/beta. It describes female strategies, though it can also be used to describe male strategies.

R-selection in women: Doesn't want a relationship, prioritizes sex over love, she can have sex without love and actually prefers it, she remains detatched, high chance of losing her after getting the bang, if you don't fuck her when she wants sex she disappears, fast sex is preferred. Standard strategy in Western cultures.

K-selection in women: Wants a relationship, wants love over sex, sees sex as something intertwined with love, she gets attached and wants to get attached, once you bang her you have her for a relationship if you so wish, slow sex speed, the girl will hold out but will still want to keep seeing you. Standard strategy in the FSU.

This has absolutely nothing to do with alpha/beta. I don't know where you got that idea.

[WestIndianArchie]

(09-26-2014 02:08 AM)OnlyMarryInTajikistan Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 08:05 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 07:29 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

Whats with 'R selection' and 'K selection' nowadays.

Sounds like unnecessary science for this, in my opinion.

It's the new way of saying Alpha/Beta, and it sounds more science-y than bad boy/nerd.

WIA

That is a misunderstanding of terms. It has nothing to do with alpha/beta. It describes female strategies, though it can also be used to describe male strategies.

R-selection in women: Doesn't want a relationship, prioritizes sex over love, she can have sex without love and actually prefers it, she remains detatched, high chance of losing her after getting the bang, if you don't fuck her when she wants sex she disappears, fast sex is preferred. Standard strategy in Western cultures.

K-selection in women: Wants a relationship, wants love over sex, sees sex as something intertwined with love, she gets attached and wants to get attached, once you bang her you have her for a relationship if you so wish, slow sex speed, the girl will hold out but will still want to keep seeing you. Standard strategy in the FSU.

This has absolutely nothing to do with alpha/beta. I don't know where you got that idea.

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck.

R/K posits how women behave.

But in practical terms it's a rehash from the female side of
- PUA/AFC
- Champ/Chump
- Alpha/Beta
- Extrovert/Introvert
- Red Pill/blue Pill

It's placebo science at best.

In the real world, if you come at a chick, and let her know you're looking for sex, and not looking for a friend, she will make a choice. Game is one part putting your best foot forward, and another part altering how she makes her decision.

But the way that these theories are promulgated from on high suggests that you can't bang a chick in the west if you come at her with K-selection, and that you can't bang a chick with R-selection in the east. Picking the wrong strategy is basically climbing Mt. Everest.

It's a sort of Western Thought Supremacy, despite evidence to the contrary

As if there aren't hundreds of Yusuf's out there who are banging Indira's.
Somehow culture and economics over-ride biological urges.

In practice, what r/K selection means is how quickly you convey sexual intent.

WIA

[pitt]

Nomad I see some contradiction in your posts. You say you are looking for quality girls and sex is not your primary goal. If you are looking for quality girls or good girls to be more specific to your case, why are you trying to kiss them on the first date? A ''good girl'' would not kiss you on the first date. Also, if you are just looking for quality time, I think kissing them on the first date is unnecessary. Maybe you are looking for sex just like most of us are, no?

Anyway, I am confused with your posts.

[Nomad77]

@pitt Forget about what I am suppose to be looking for. The point of the post is that you should try to establish sexual intent even if you feel you will be rejected. A lot of guys do not do this precisely because they fear rejection or that everything isn't going exactly right or whatever. You should read my follow remarks to on this post which should clarify my position.

[jariel]

(09-26-2014 09:33 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

The point of the post is that you should try to establish sexual intent even if you feel you will be rejected. A lot of guys do not do this precisely because they fear rejection or that everything isn't going exactly right or whatever.

It's delayed rejection game, my personal feeling is that if you fear getting rejected, I'm not sure why you're even playing the game.

A girl is more apt to penalize you for not trying than she is for trying.

If she's not down, she's not down, so it's not like being more reserved makes her more down.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-26-2014 06:02 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck.

R/K posits how women behave.

But in practical terms it's a rehash from the female side of
- PUA/AFC
- Champ/Chump
- Alpha/Beta
- Extrovert/Introvert
- Red Pill/blue Pill

It's placebo science at best.

In the real world, if you come at a chick, and let her know you're looking for sex, and not looking for a friend, she will make a choice. Game is one part putting your best foot forward, and another part altering how she makes her decision.

But the way that these theories are promulgated from on high suggests that you can't bang a chick in the west if you come at her with K-selection, and that you can't bang a chick with R-selection in the east. Picking the wrong strategy is basically climbing Mt. Everest.

It's a sort of Western Thought Supremacy, despite evidence to the contrary

As if there aren't hundreds of Yusuf's out there who are banging Indira's.
Somehow culture and economics over-ride biological urges.

In practice, what r/K selection means is how quickly you convey sexual intent.

WIA

It is possible to have fast sex with a K-girl if you override her forebrain, but that can rarely be done. If the girl's mindset is not to do it, then she just won't do it. She won't go up to your apartment. Just read some of Roosh's stories in the FSU, girls leaving the coat on in the apartment, unbeatable LMR... He failed to get a single ONS in 6 full months. In theory you can get a K-girl with R-selection game, in practice not really (although it has been sparingly done by some players). What CAN be done however is signalling you don't want a relationship to make her seek validation, hooking her into the process, but she still won't put out fast (SDL or 1st date bang - 2nd is normally doable, fast sex usually happens sparingly due to some luck-based factor like a girl on the rebound or whatever) and she will still want a medium-long term affair with you.

The same goes in the inverse direction. If a girl absolutely does not want a relationship, and you come at her with signs that you want one, guess what will happen? She will eliminate you from her life, 95% of the time.

I know this not only from common sense, but from personal experience. I made the same mistakes both in the East and the West many times. I started this stuff when there was very little game theory, and I became conscious of this phenomenon a long time ago, there was just no formal name for it until now.

For an American player these things don't matter. He is dealing with one type of girl and one type of mentality. For an international player it matters ENORMOUSLY. It is one of the most important concepts in game. If you misunderstand what you are dealing with you will make serious game mistakes that will destroy your results.

[MikeS]

(09-26-2014 06:02 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

...

But the way that these theories are promulgated from on high suggests that you can't bang a chick in the west if you come at her with K-selection, and that you can't bang a chick with R-selection in the east. Picking the wrong strategy is basically climbing Mt. Everest...

Krauser and Tom Torero seem to be using the R/K-selection terms a lot in their recent writings and videos, and they are both specifically using R-selection in Eastern Europe.
That often still means a couple of low investment meet-ups before the bang in that part of the world, but firmly placing themselves in the not-boyfriend-material category.

From an inspiring Krauser post a few months ago about FSU girls: "... There are no dinner dates, walks around the park and except for Anya I never hold their hands in public. I’m not installing these girls into apartments like mistresses, buying them iPads, or establishing a position in their social circles. I’ve not met a single friend or family member of any of them. The entire relationship is a one-on-one discreet secret..."

[_Samo_]

Reading this thread reminds me of a recent rejection, I asked a chick if we could kiss at the end of a date, just awful I don't know what I was thinking really but in my defence I left it too late and it was at a crowded bus stop, I couldn't just lunge at her. Of course she said no, her words "next time", needless to say there was no second date.

[Nomad77]

@_Samo_ Why? You didn't ask her out again?

[_Samo_]

I didn't talk to her since, reason just because I was so pissed at myself for not escalating earlier and then asking like a pussy, so just decided to focus on new girls.

[Nomad77]

@_Samo_ One of the hardest things to learn to suppress your ego. I have a way to teach myself hard lessons. Every time I make a mistake I punish myself by forcing myself to do something I dislike related to that mistake. In this case, if would be you going back and asking that girl out and then correcting the mistake.

[_Samo_]

Well I did sort of plan to hit her up at some point as I didn't delete her number, also should add I was 1 hour late for our date and she still waited for me, my excuse was also poor. I was just too complacent and thought the deal was done before I'd even got anything.