[Gavin1234]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ds-newsxml

Hoping to get a second chance after getting caught cheating by his girlfriend, 26-year-old Brighton man Joe Page took his apology to the streets, donning a sandwich board that read, in part, “I cheated on my girlfriend. I am humiliating myself to show I am sorry.”

“I think people had some sympathy for me because I looked like a complete idiot,” Page said when asked about the reactions of passers-by.

Apparently the stunt worked, because he was allowed back in — albeit to sleep on the couch. “I think slowly she’s coming round,” he said. “Hopefully it won’t take many more drastic measures like this.”

What's your take on this? Is this alpha or beta? I'd say if he means it sarcastically or used it to pull some numbers, it's alpha. I am not entirely sure though.

[Kickb]

He is publicly shaming himself for a woman he cheated on. Betta!

[Gmac]

100% beta

[gringoed]

From the article:
"He was was caught out when Jess, an artist, found flirty messages on his Facebook account."

What an idiot!

[Samseau]

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:


1. Cheating on your girl is a serious blow to her ego, and she will feel like shit in comparison to you.
2. Cheating on your girl will most likely make her want you more, if she already wanted you in the first place.
3. A little bit of groveling will assuage her ego enough to at least talk to you.


If you cheat on a pretty girl with options, although she will feel more desire and love for you, her ego will have a serious wound. It doesn't matter how alpha she perceives you if, as a matter of pride and prejudice, she refuses all communication with you. This man in the article also seems to have a very alpha composure within the photos, he clearly doesn't give much of a shit what others think of him, and the last sentence of the article, "'I think slowly she's coming round. Hopefully it won't take many more drastic measures like this.'" sounds more like confidence rather than beta guilt.

Even Roissy has a post where he says, after cheating on your girlfriend, to tell her "I know how you feel and you've never looked more beautiful to me than now."

[oldnemesis]

(03-16-2011 10:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:
1. Cheating on your girl is a serious blow to her ego, and she will feel like shit in comparison to you.
2. Cheating on your girl will most likely make her want you more, if she already wanted you in the first place.
3. A little bit of groveling will assuage her ego enough to at least talk to you.

But how does it fit into the "Apparently the stunt worked, because he was allowed back in — albeit to sleep on the couch."?

Actually this is something I always wanted to ask about: I hear it a lot that some girls here in US "show guys the door" or "she was not letting me in". Could someone explain the situation behind it, are those all guys live in their girlfriends' apartments? Because if this was my apartment, no girl would ever tell me where I should sleep in my apartment, not to mention the "allowed back in" crap. What is the logic there?

[Screwston]

How the hell is he an alpha???

[Excelsior]

(03-16-2011 10:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:


1. Cheating on your girl is a serious blow to her ego, and she will feel like shit in comparison to you.
2. Cheating on your girl will most likely make her want you more, if she already wanted you in the first place.
3. A little bit of groveling will assuage her ego enough to at least talk to you.

I can't see how any of these points would warrant these actions being considered "alpha" at all. The first two seem especially off-base: sure, cheating can make a girl want you more and it can hurt her ego, but this does not mean that cheating makes you more alpha. By that logic, any beta chump who finally finds a girlfriend and subsequently steps out on her can be considered to have upped his alpha cred, and I don't see that.

As for the 3rd point, groveling is beta. You are prostrating yourself for the sake of ONE woman's ego. This does not sound like a particularly "alpha" mindset.

Quote:

If you cheat on a pretty girl with options, although she will feel more desire and love for you, her ego will have a serious wound. It doesn't matter how alpha she perceives you if, as a matter of pride and prejudice, she refuses all communication with you.

I fail to see how this supports your reasoning that this guy is alpha.
Cheating in and of itself does not make a guy an alpha.

Quote:

This man in the article also seems to have a very alpha composure within the photos, he clearly doesn't give much of a shit what others think of him, and the last sentence of the article, "'I think slowly she's coming round. Hopefully it won't take many more drastic measures like this.'" sounds more like confidence rather than beta guilt.

He is embarrassing himself for the sake of one woman's ego. That he is going through with this at all is a sign of his guilt at having done what he did. I don't see why he'd go through all of this trouble(he admits these measures are "drastic") if he had no regret for cheating on her.

As for your bit about his showing confidence? Plenty of betas show similar confidence when they approach their love interests with offers of flowers, gifts, and romantic dates. Plenty of betas are very confident in their supplication and certain that doing everything she wants and expressing clearly their undying love will win their woman's heart.

Plenty of betas fail miserably in this regard, and we do not mistake them for alphas. The "confidence" shown by this dude here is no different.

Quote:

Even Roissy has a post where he says, after cheating on your girlfriend, to tell her "I know how you feel and you've never looked more beautiful to me than now."

That advice does not suggest the grovelling and supplication this guy is showing. If you honestly believe that Roissy would come anywhere close to condoning this type of thing, then I have some oceanfront property in Atlanta to sell you.

[gringoed]

This guy is ALPHA???! hahahah ok I'm done with the alpha/beta nonsense.

[Gmac]

(03-16-2011 10:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:

Pedestal = Beta

Thread over.

[Samseau]

(03-17-2011 06:19 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-16-2011 10:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:
1. Cheating on your girl is a serious blow to her ego, and she will feel like shit in comparison to you.
2. Cheating on your girl will most likely make her want you more, if she already wanted you in the first place.
3. A little bit of groveling will assuage her ego enough to at least talk to you.

But how does it fit into the "Apparently the stunt worked, because he was allowed back in — albeit to sleep on the couch."?

Actually this is something I always wanted to ask about: I hear it a lot that some girls here in US "show guys the door" or "she was not letting me in". Could someone explain the situation behind it, are those all guys live in their girlfriends' apartments? Because if this was my apartment, no girl would ever tell me where I should sleep in my apartment, not to mention the "allowed back in" crap. What is the logic there?

Okay, if he was kicked out of his own apartment, then I take back everything I said.

It seemed to me that she kicked him out because she has ownership of it. I assumed because he is a comedian, he lacks money, and does not own the apartment.

(03-17-2011 07:33 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(03-16-2011 10:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:


1. Cheating on your girl is a serious blow to her ego, and she will feel like shit in comparison to you.
2. Cheating on your girl will most likely make her want you more, if she already wanted you in the first place.
3. A little bit of groveling will assuage her ego enough to at least talk to you.

I can't see how any of these points would warrant these actions being considered "alpha" at all. The first two seem especially off-base: sure, cheating can make a girl want you more and it can hurt her ego, but this does not mean that cheating makes you more alpha. By that logic, any beta chump who finally finds a girlfriend and subsequently steps out on her can be considered to have upped his alpha cred, and I don't see that.

As for the 3rd point, groveling is beta. You are prostrating yourself for the sake of ONE woman's ego. This does not sound like a particularly "alpha" mindset.

First of all, I use a slightly modified definition of Roissy's definition of Alpha: that which is attractive to women.

Now, did his girlfriend take him back? Check. Why would she take him back? Either 1. He had something ($$$) to offer, or 2. she loved him.

He's just a 26-yr old no-name comedian, so I can't see him having much money unless he's inherited it.

So she must love him, and his ploy to get her back worked. Who cares if it was a little humiliating? Only results count, everything else is bullshit. Clearly, it was not a case of using money, coercion, or anything else except game that won her back, so the action in question must be alpha.

Furthermore, he couldn't cheat on her if he wasn't attracting more girls, which means he's alpha to other girls which means he's acting alpha.

Also, without knowing how attractive the girls are, it's very difficult to judge how alpha he is so we can't really infer too much.

Quote:

Quote:

This man in the article also seems to have a very alpha composure within the photos, he clearly doesn't give much of a shit what others think of him, and the last sentence of the article, "'I think slowly she's coming round. Hopefully it won't take many more drastic measures like this.'" sounds more like confidence rather than beta guilt.

He is embarrassing himself for the sake of one woman's ego. That he is going through with this at all is a sign of his guilt at having done what he did. I don't see why he'd go through all of this trouble(he admits these measures are "drastic") if he had no regret for cheating on her.

As for your bit about his showing confidence? Plenty of betas show similar confidence when they approach their love interests with offers of flowers, gifts, and romantic dates. Plenty of betas are very confident in their supplication and certain that doing everything she wants and expressing clearly their undying love will win their woman's heart.

Plenty of betas fail miserably in this regard, and we do not mistake them for alphas. The "confidence" shown by this dude here is no different.

It doesn't matter if he embarrasses himself, what matters is if he feels embarrassed.

Plenty of game detractors would say that by approaching hundreds of women I embarrasses myself, but I don't feel embarrassed at all. Approaching girls gets me laid and that means I'm acting alpha, which is what counts. This guy doesn't seem to give a fuck about what others think of him, and it shows. He knew he needed to seriously grovel in order to heal her wounded ego. You or I may not agree with his methods, but given the results of his actions, they cannot be called beta.

He even gets fame out of this shit, because now he's on the news. That will probably help his stand-up routine considerably. Since when do beta actions make you famous?

As to whether or not he felt regret for cheating - I'm sure he did, but it's not beta guilt as in "Oh, I've fucked it up forever and there's nothing more I can do oh woe is me" type of beta guilt. It's the alpha guilt of "dammit, I've fucked up and now there's damage control to be done."

He's gaming her, and his actions are more or less appropriate to the situation. Indeed, it's pretty creative.

Quote:

Quote:

Even Roissy has a post where he says, after cheating on your girlfriend, to tell her "I know how you feel and you've never looked more beautiful to me than now."

That advice does not suggest the grovelling and supplication this guy is showing. If you honestly believe that Roissy would come anywhere close to condoning this type of thing, then I have some oceanfront property in Atlanta to sell you.

The point is not that Roissy would recommend this course of action. I don't recommend it either. The point is he needed to grovel some and even Roissy would agree. The comedian tried a risky gambit that could have been interpreted in many ways, alpha or beta, but the girl took him back so it worked in his favor as alpha.


There are no clear cut lines to decide if something is alpha or beta. It is always contextual. For all we know, the girl he was dating was a massive bitch who could only be calmed down with a massive act of groveling. Why any man would want to date such a creature is beyond me, but hey, he must really like the girl. Regardless, we don't know what the girl he's dating is like, nor do we know the man too well either, so benefit of the doubt must be given to the man that he's doing an action appropriate to her personality. Mystery would call this calibration.

(03-17-2011 11:10 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(03-16-2011 10:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I disagree with the beta assessment. I think what he's doing is alpha. The reasons:

Pedestal = Beta

Thread over.

I see no pedestalization here. Pedestalizing men don't cheat.

[Roosh]

Hey look, another alpha/beta argument!

[Moma]

(03-17-2011 12:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

[
It doesn't matter if he embarrasses himself, what matters is if he feels embarrassed.

Plenty of game detractors would say that by approaching hundreds of women I embarrasses myself, but I don't feel embarrassed at all. Approaching girls gets me laid and that means I'm acting alpha, which is what counts. This guy doesn't seem to give a fuck about what others think of him, and it shows. He knew he needed to seriously grovel in order to heal her wounded ego. You or I may not agree with his methods, but given the results of his actions, they cannot be called beta.

He even gets fame out of this shit, because now he's on the news. That will probably help his stand-up routine considerably. Since when do beta actions make you famous?

As to whether or not he felt regret for cheating - I'm sure he did, but it's not beta guilt as in "Oh, I've fucked it up forever and there's nothing more I can do oh woe is me" type of beta guilt. It's the alpha guilt of "dammit, I've fucked up and now there's damage control to be done."

He's gaming her, and his actions are more or less appropriate to the situation. Indeed, it's pretty creative.


There are no clear cut lines to decide if something is alpha or beta. It is always contextual. For all we know, the girl he was dating was a massive bitch who could only be calmed down with a massive act of groveling. Why any man would want to date such a creature is beyond me, but hey, he must really like the girl. Regardless, we don't know what the girl he's dating is like, nor do we know the man too well either, so benefit of the doubt must be given to the man that he's doing an action appropriate to her personality. Mystery would call this calibration.

So if a man enjoys being bitch slapped by his girl, letting her and her friends rodger him with a steel strap on dildo, he is alpha...as long as he doesn't give a fcuk?

Hmm..that's interesting and certainly food for thought...

[oldnemesis]

(03-17-2011 12:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

It seemed to me that she kicked him out because she has ownership of it. I assumed because he is a comedian, he lacks money, and does not own the apartment.

The thing here is not about who owns apartment; it is about that she accepted him back. Which means he's just another pussy begging for being accepted.

Quote:

Now, did his girlfriend take him back?

This is where the problem is. If his girlfriend made the decision whether to take him back, then she is wearing the pants in their relationship, and he is just a pussy.

[Samseau]

(03-17-2011 02:10 PM)Moma Wrote:  

So if a man enjoys being bitch slapped by his girl, letting her and her friends rodger him with a steel strap on dildo, he is alpha...as long as he doesn't give a fcuk?

Hmm..that's interesting and certainly food for thought...

It depends; is he being rodgered because he's a fag who likes it, or because he wants to please his girl?

In either case, he's a freak, but only in one case is he a beta.

Quote:

Hey look, another alpha/beta argument!

I would prefer if people stopped using these terms also, and everytime someone wants to say alpha or beta they instead say:

alpha (replaced with) "he's building interest" "he's behaving attractively" "he's making her hot" "he's making her like him more"

beta (replaced with) "he's losing interest" "he's behavior is unattractive" "he's making her cold" "he's scaring her away"

[Samseau]

(03-17-2011 04:36 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-17-2011 12:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

It seemed to me that she kicked him out because she has ownership of it. I assumed because he is a comedian, he lacks money, and does not own the apartment.

The thing here is not about who owns apartment; it is about that she accepted him back. Which means he's just another pussy begging for being accepted.

Quote:

Now, did his girlfriend take him back?

This is where the problem is. If his girlfriend made the decision whether to take him back, then she is wearing the pants in their relationship, and he is just a pussy.

Dude but he cheated on her man. How do you cheat on a girl and then have the ability to take her back? As you would say, "Only if her value was extremely lower than his" could he have the balls to "take her back" after such sneaky display of infidelity.

[oldnemesis]

(03-18-2011 10:12 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Dude but he cheated on her man. How do you cheat on a girl and then have the ability to take her back?

If by "cheated" you mean having sex with another girl, then I "cheated" on pretty much every girlfriend I have had. And it wasn't surprise to most of them. And I never talked to any of my exes again - once we break up, it is done. The whole concept of "coming back" or "taking someone back" is very alien to me, and in my culture it is considered pussy to do so.

Quote:

As you would say, "Only if her value was extremely lower than his" could he have the balls to "take her back" after such sneaky display of infidelity.

What you said assumes sexual faithfulness (i.e. monogamy) has a high value for both people in that relationship. However this is not the case for a lot of people I know. Even you stated it is not the case for you if it is not the case for your partner (you haven't replied there btw). It is definitely not the case for me, so having an one night stand with someone would affect anyone's value in my relationship in the same way as eating the ice cream, i.e. nothing.

[Tuthmosis]

(03-18-2011 10:10 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

Hey look, another alpha/beta argument!

I would prefer if people stopped using these terms also, and everytime someone wants to say alpha or beta they instead say:

alpha (replaced with) "he's building interest" "he's behaving attractively" "he's making her hot" "he's making her like him more"

I've been thinking about proposing a straight-up ban on these two terms to Roosh. But:

1) I don't have the kind of sway around here to "propose" anything.

2) I doubt it's sustainable (dudes with a disposition to debate this topic ad naseum would quickly find workarounds or substitutes)

But, you all have to agree, they're the among the most abused words on these boards. They've been rendered meaningless.

(Incidentally, I think the sandwich-board guy could go either way. Like everything else in our craft, it depends on how he's doing it. Frankly, I would use the stunt to pick up even more chicks!)

[Lumiere]

I am confused. Since when is 'going on a date' cheating?

[Tommy]

He looks like a bum to me

[Samseau]

(03-18-2011 10:55 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-18-2011 10:12 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Dude but he cheated on her man. How do you cheat on a girl and then have the ability to take her back?

If by "cheated" you mean having sex with another girl, then I "cheated" on pretty much every girlfriend I have had. And it wasn't surprise to most of them. And I never talked to any of my exes again - once we break up, it is done. The whole concept of "coming back" or "taking someone back" is very alien to me, and in my culture it is considered pussy to do so.

Quote:

As you would say, "Only if her value was extremely lower than his" could he have the balls to "take her back" after such sneaky display of infidelity.

What you said assumes sexual faithfulness (i.e. monogamy) has a high value for both people in that relationship. However this is not the case for a lot of people I know. Even you stated it is not the case for you if it is not the case for your partner (you haven't replied there btw). It is definitely not the case for me, so having an one night stand with someone would affect anyone's value in my relationship in the same way as eating the ice cream, i.e. nothing.

Not gonna reply till I think I have something to add. And I assume this kid and his girl valued monogamy, so after breaking a vow there he must grovel if he wants her back.

I know the most logical thing to ask is "If you cheated on her, why do you want to go back to her?" and I agree. This kid is a little bit fucked in the head but he still got what he wanted in the end.

lumiere Wrote:

I am confused. Since when is 'going on a date' cheating?

I'm assuming it meant sex; no sex and he got kicked out? Then he's a chump and his girl's a bitch.

[MiXX]

Is this a fucking trick question???

I don't give rats ass what Roissy, mystery or anyone says. I'm not publicly humiliating myself for no woman. Not even my own mother. And I LOVE my mom incredibly!! So any man that publicly parades the streets and begs forgiveness from a woman becuase he was horny and fucked another woman needs to fucking man up and claim his balls back!

Actually, it was my mother that always told me as a kid to never allow ANY woman to manipulate, use me or threaten me....including her.

Oh yeah, once you get caught cheating, leave the relationship. Do not wait around for her to get revenge and do it to you! Leave on your terms.

If I cheat, it's because I am not sexually satisfied. I will not apologize for it. She should be thankful it was nit her fine ass sister or girlfriend I cheated with.

Mixx

[Tommy]

She might be a full blown 10, that might be the reason

[Tuthmosis]

(03-19-2011 03:56 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Oh yeah, once you get caught cheating, leave the relationship. Do not wait around for her to get revenge and do it to you! Leave on your terms.

If I cheat, it's because I am not sexually satisfied. I will not apologize for it. She should be thankful it was nit her fine ass sister or girlfriend I cheated with.

Mixx

Preach, brother, preach. I agree 200 percent. I've straight-up told girlfriends that I would leave them if she were to catch me cheating. Why? Because I'm not surrendering that kind of power. I'm not waiting for that second shoe to drop. Bitches are vengeful, horrible creatures.

I've turned down some fine-ass pussy over the years because I was sexually satisfied. During dry seasons you look back and wonder what the-fuck you were thinking, but it's as simple as this: the girl knew how to keep your balls empty.

It's hard to cheat with an empty sack.

[oldnemesis]

(03-19-2011 01:25 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

And I assume this kid and his girl valued monogamy, so after breaking a vow there he must grovel if he wants her back.

A lot of speculations here (about their values, having any kinds of vows), which makes it meaningless to draw any conclusions on them.

Quote:

I know the most logical thing to ask is "If you cheated on her, why do you want to go back to her?" and I agree.

Hmm, are you saying that if I fuck girl A, and then fuck girl B it is somehow not logical to fuck girl A again? I don't really understand it.