[Iconoclast007]

So i baught about 10k in silver at around 22 dollars and sold it from 28 to about 19 and ended up with a little bit of profit. The great thing about the deal was owning it and going through the motions of buying amd selling to become comfortable.

I also in that time I learned a hell of alot about the stuff and why it will eventually and I think sooner than layer become very valuable.

I am investing again now. In the next few weeks ill go in about 50k in silver coin.

I am also looking to become involved brokering leveraged silver contracts and researching some firms to work with as a broker and welcome. Any advice or input from forum members in this regard.

I think that Silver and Privacy cryptocurrency. Like Monero and Dash are the best investments available in 2019. Crypto may go down before it goes back up as may silver. Ill Dollar cost average all the way down.

[BBinger]

(02-16-2019 04:00 PM)deerhunter Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 10:01 AM)Bikal Wrote:  

I own physical gold, art, diamonds and wine, the house a has a large room set aside to house all four together, with the largest section of the room being for the wine and a smaller section for gold, annoyingly the section for gold cost more than I've made on the gold but nothing beats having such a collection, especially when it comes to bringing a girl home... Do you want to see my collection of art, diamonds, gold and wine?

Showing your stash of valuables to girls you bring home is risky. The brother of a family friend did this, older rich guy. She told a couple of thugs and they broke into his house and made him open up his safe. Tied him up and duct taped his mouth. Apparently he couldn't breathe through his nose properly and died.

One hazard of stacking obviously valuable things is exactly this. Generally once word gets out that you have a stack of valuable you have to enter the forticifaction business because thugs will assemble a group capable of assaulting whatever defenses you have.

One advantage of silver is that not very much value can look like a lot of value. Having a diversion safe with a couple kilobars or even a good delivery bar of silver means that should an untargeted home invasion hit, you can give up a convincing diversion.

Art can be showcased, not very liquid. Objects made out of gold may be safe as well for the reason cheap electroplating has cut down on the visual impact. Plenty of worthless things have the color. Diamonds generally seem like a poor investment as the market is controlled by a very small group of vertically integrated operations that maximize what they can sell diamonds for and minimize the margin other people can get reselling diamonds. Given their prominence in heist movies, diamonds bring a lot of theft risk for little return in liquidity. Value can be assigned to gold and silver with a scale and a handful of tests for authenticity. Assigning value to diamonds requires a mountain of wank and a counter party who agrees to the same mountain of wank you do.

[Tail Gunner]

(02-17-2019 01:29 PM)BBinger Wrote:  

Diamonds generally seem like a poor investment as the market is controlled by a very small group of vertically integrated operations that maximize what they can sell diamonds for and minimize the margin other people can get reselling diamonds. Given their prominence in heist movies, diamonds bring a lot of theft risk for little return in liquidity. Value can be assigned to gold and silver with a scale and a handful of tests for authenticity. Assigning value to diamonds requires a mountain of wank and a counter party who agrees to the same mountain of wank you do.

I agree for the most part about diamonds, especially about the monopoly aspect. But they can be very useful for surreptitiously moving large amounts of wealth across borders. One company has established set values for investment grade diamonds in a tamper-proof package, sort of like companies have done for establishing grading for rare coins. "A single Gold Diamond Bullion holds the same approximate value as 20 10-oz .9999 gold bars."

https://www.vult.com/

Quote:

Barely larger than a credit card and about as thick as your watch, each tamper-proof VULT contains a sealed capsule holding certified diamonds for investors seeking larger scale wealth protection in a format so concentrated and portable you can put in your pocket. Now VULT makes them fungible and liquid. The value of each VULT model is the same, making them standardized and interchangeable. You might think of them as “diamond coins” with different denominations. The bid/ask spread on VULT diamonds is currently 1.5%. Assuming zero gains or losses, investors can buy the diamonds today and sell them tomorrow for 1.5% less than the purchase price. That transaction cost is exceptionally low for a tangible asset -- that’s even an even tighter spread than when buying and selling physical gold and silver!

https://www.moneymetals.com/vult-certifi...e-case/255

Significantly, the authenticity of the diamonds are now backed by a Lloyd's of London insurance policy:

Quote:

"This first-ever policy backs Secured Worldwide's guarantee that the diamonds contained in VULT are exactly as listed at the time of the products original sale. If at any time after purchase the diamonds in VULT are found to be otherwise, the company will refund the original purchase price or replace the product at no charge to the buyer."

http://www.idexonline.com/FullArticle?id=42525

[Polniy_Sostav]

How hard is it to sell a gold coin for cash ? If you set the price slightly below the spot (-2%) do you find buyers very easily ?
I am anticipating to sell them the day I will have a big purchase to make and want to get some cash.

[Iconoclast007]

Gold is real money. Cash is a debt instrument.

Gold is the money of Kings, Silver for gentlemen, cash for slaves.

[Polniy_Sostav]

@Iconoclast007 I know , but unless mistaken I cannot buy a house with gold.

[Iconoclast007]

Sure you can

Contract for warranty deed. Gold as consideration.

We have all been brainwashed about what real money is.

The fucked up part is you will never really own the house even paid in gold as the scumbags in gov require fiat for property tax extortion. They may also be knocking on your door for capital gain tax from selling your gold. You will merely rent said house from our masters.

That said, you could own gold and as it appreciates not ever sell it. Use it as collateral for a fiat loan to buy assets and pay tax to government. Debt is not income and will not attract income taxes. It is cheaper to pay interest than capital gain or income tax extortion. Never sell your gold. Be your own banker.

Basel 3 just made gold a 1st tier asset like cash on banks balance sheets. Banks are preparing for a return to the gold standard.

[Polniy_Sostav]

@Iconoclast007 ,

In most "poor" countries you can buy a house cash. I have never heard of contract involving gold etc.. .it must be a particularity of rich countries.
The question was initially about how easy it is to sell gold to another physical person (to receive cash).

[Tail Gunner]

(03-31-2019 11:04 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

The question was initially about how easy it is to sell gold to another physical person (to receive cash).

What country are you living in that you would even ask such a question? You simply walk into the store of a gold dealer or a pawn shop and they give you cash value that is somewhat near the current spot price. Or you can sell it on ebay.

If you live in some country with no gold dealers or dealers who will not provide a market price, then simply buy and store your gold in a reputable gold vault in Switzerland, Singapore, the Caymans, or some other country with a solid rule of law. You then sell near the spot price whenever you need to liquidate your holding. Honestly, your question is baffling.

[nek]

(03-31-2019 04:59 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Cash is a debt instrument.

Can you explain this a little further? My understanding of debt instruments is loans and bonds, with a sort of "promise-to-pay" concept attached to them. How does that work with cash?

[Iconoclast007]

Ive traveled quite extensively and ive never been to any country that didnt value gold. The gold standard is inherently international.

Cash is a debt instrument because it is created in the form of a debt obligation with interest attached. In the fractional reserve banking system something like 97% of "money" has been leveraged into thin air into digits on a computer. The only backing is the insurance contract as the "full faith and integrity" of the FDIC. Its a joke.

This is a really important aspect of why you should own as much PHYSICAL gold and silver as possible right now., and never sell it.

I think silver actually has more upside potential.

I think privacy cryptocurrency like Monero is also a solid bet for the same reasons.

I just love the sight and feel of bullion. The coins feel like power in the palm of my hands. I feel like a Pirate. It is also a way to say... Fuck the government.

[nek]

(03-31-2019 02:03 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Ive traveled quite extensively and ive never been to any country that didnt value gold. The gold standard is inherently international.

Cash is a debt instrument because it is created in the form of a debt obligation with interest attached. In the fractional reserve banking system something like 97% of "money" has been leveraged into thin air into digits on a computer. The only backing is the insurance contract as the "full faith and integrity" of the FDIC. Its a joke.

This is a really important aspect of why you should own as much PHYSICAL gold and silver as possible right now., and never sell it.

I think silver actually has more upside potential.

I think privacy cryptocurrency like Monero is also a solid bet for the same reasons.

I just love the sight and feel of bullion. The coins feel like power in the palm of my hands. I feel like a Pirate. It is also a way to say... Fuck the government.

what interest is attached to it?

[Iconoclast007]

If everyone payed off their loans AND INTEREST to the bank there would be no fiat currency left in circulation. Its all debt. The fucked up part is that there is not enough currency to pay off the debt AND the interest so the only option for our economy is to create more and new debt to retire old debt. This is why" growth" is so important as a metric to watch for. Without ever expanding growth a debt based monetary system cannot survive.

USD/EURO etc = Debt
Gold/Silver = Money

Watch this video about Fiat currency as debt:

https://youtu.be/4AC6RSau7r8

[Polniy_Sostav]

(03-31-2019 11:55 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-31-2019 11:04 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

The question was initially about how easy it is to sell gold to another physical person (to receive cash).

What country are you living in that you would even ask such a question? You simply walk into the store of a gold dealer or a pawn shop and they give you cash value that is somewhat near the current spot price. Or you can sell it on ebay.

If you live in some country with no gold dealers or dealers who will not provide a market price, then simply buy and store your gold in a reputable gold vault in Switzerland, Singapore, the Caymans, or some other country with a solid rule of law. You then sell near the spot price whenever you need to liquidate your holding. Honestly, your question is baffling.

Thank you for your answer. Needless to say that I want the transaction to be fully anonymous so your options are out of question.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-01-2019 09:47 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

(03-31-2019 11:55 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-31-2019 11:04 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

The question was initially about how easy it is to sell gold to another physical person (to receive cash).

What country are you living in that you would even ask such a question? You simply walk into the store of a gold dealer or a pawn shop and they give you cash value that is somewhat near the current spot price. Or you can sell it on ebay.

If you live in some country with no gold dealers or dealers who will not provide a market price, then simply buy and store your gold in a reputable gold vault in Switzerland, Singapore, the Caymans, or some other country with a solid rule of law. You then sell near the spot price whenever you need to liquidate your holding. Honestly, your question is baffling.

Thank you for your answer. Needless to say that I want the transaction to be fully anonymous so your options are out of question.

Your original post stated: "How hard is it to sell a gold coin for cash ?"

As I said in my last post, "You simply walk into the store of a gold dealer or a pawn shop and they give you cash value that is somewhat near the current spot price." Again, what kind of country are you living in where you cannot walk into the store of a gold dealer or a pawn shop and get cash for gold? Your posts do not make sense, unless you live in some socialist European country with low cash transaction reporting limits.

Your original post discussed selling one gold coin for cash. Even in countries that limit cash transactions to certain levels, selling one gold coin anonymously to a private party should not be a problem.

[NoMoreTO]

(04-01-2019 01:58 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

USD/EURO etc = Debt
Gold/Silver = Money

Watch this video about Fiat currency as debt:

https://youtu.be/4AC6RSau7r8

Correct !

In 2007 I made 60K salary.
I bought a rental duplex for 180K.

Today I would make 70K in the same job with the same experience level.
Today, the house might sell for 400K,

I must have made a ton of Money! No.....

The real estate must have boomed in the town...No! The population is the same, the wealth in the city is the same.

My renovations were awesome - No, possibly 10K-20K in renovations/maintenance over 10 years. I did a couple things, but things deteriorate at the same time. My furnace is now 20 years old, the old girl is good though. (Note: Keep the old furnace, they break less)

What happened? FIAT is being inflated by the (((Monetary System)))

It isn't that precious metals are going up, its that your FIAT currency is continually being inflated, even more in the last 10 years because of QE1 & QE2 following the bank crash. To me Gold & precious metals will go up like any other non depreciable asset (land, real estate).

The video suggested is spot on!
( you just gotta hit that little TV button and embed it so people feel the click bait)

[Iconoclast007]

This article discusses the fundamental reason why im all in with precious metals in 2019

In addition to the fractional reserve ponzi scheme, declining EROEI of energy is going to be a factor in future precious metals Prices.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-0...nger-ahead

[Graft]

(04-01-2019 01:27 PM)NoMoreTO Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 01:58 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

USD/EURO etc = Debt
Gold/Silver = Money

Watch this video about Fiat currency as debt:

https://youtu.be/4AC6RSau7r8

Correct !

In 2007 I made 60K salary.
I bought a rental duplex for 180K.

Today I would make 70K in the same job with the same experience level.
Today, the house might sell for 400K,

I must have made a ton of Money! No.....

The real estate must have boomed in the town...No! The population is the same, the wealth in the city is the same.

My renovations were awesome - No, possibly 10K-20K in renovations/maintenance over 10 years. I did a couple things, but things deteriorate at the same time. My furnace is now 20 years old, the old girl is good though. (Note: Keep the old furnace, they break less)

What happened? FIAT is being inflated by the (((Monetary System)))

It isn't that precious metals are going up, its that your FIAT currency is continually being inflated, even more in the last 10 years because of QE1 & QE2 following the bank crash. To me Gold & precious metals will go up like any other non depreciable asset (land, real estate).

The video suggested is spot on!
( you just gotta hit that little TV button and embed it so people feel the click bait)

This is correct. Home prices have exploded but people's incomes haven't. This is why I'm wary of real estate, especially in coastal metropolitan areas. Even people making 200k+ are having trouble affording homes.

I've changed my tune drastically about gold. Back in 2012-2014 I was a huge gold bug. I had probably a 35-40k nest egg and was spending most of it buying physical gold and reading zerohedge. One of the biggest mistakes of my life in retrospect. Had I invested in brand name blue chips (Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc) my life would be completely different by now.

Don't forget that gold fell over 30% during 2008, then rebounded to give a whopping 4% for the year.

Moral of the story: Don't count on the world ending and making a killing off precious metals. If you want to play it safe with T-bonds and Walmart thats fine. But Zerohedge, Peter Schiff and that crowd has been singing this song for at least ten years. It might happen eventually. But you'll miss out on gigantic gains and hope for a swan song event of the dollar failing and the USA collapsing.

[Iconoclast007]

It isnt just the USD and the USA. The whole world is racing to the bottom. China, EU etc. Physical Precious metals demand could easily start in Places like China, EU, before moving tonUSA.

The world isnt ending.

Zerohedge and Peter Schiff et al have been fundamentally right for the last 10 years. Fundamentals have not been important durring that time. This cannot go on for ever. Its musical chairs... A ponzi scheme.

"playing it safe" with Tbonds and walmart stock is an option. I prefer to hold real wealth in my hands.... Ill stick with precious metals and Dollar cost average.

[Iconoclast007]

Inflation adjusted price of gold and silver is at 50 year lows.

[Hypugamy]

(03-31-2019 08:42 PM)nek Wrote:  

(03-31-2019 02:03 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

Ive traveled quite extensively and ive never been to any country that didnt value gold. The gold standard is inherently international.

Cash is a debt instrument because it is created in the form of a debt obligation with interest attached. In the fractional reserve banking system something like 97% of "money" has been leveraged into thin air into digits on a computer. The only backing is the insurance contract as the "full faith and integrity" of the FDIC. Its a joke.

This is a really important aspect of why you should own as much PHYSICAL gold and silver as possible right now., and never sell it.

I think silver actually has more upside potential.

I think privacy cryptocurrency like Monero is also a solid bet for the same reasons.

I just love the sight and feel of bullion. The coins feel like power in the palm of my hands. I feel like a Pirate. It is also a way to say... Fuck the government.

what interest is attached to it?

Gold=real money
Currency=Usury instrument

That being said, you would need a crystal ball to say what the best investment decision is right now. I have listened to a lot of schiff, and I agree with his criticisms of the fed, however I am not convinced his solution is more than just a sales pitch. The scenario where the USD completely crashes leads to what exactly? North America becoming Venezuela? So then what? The people in the major cities with physical gold can trade it to farmers for carrots and potatoes? That's what you would be trying to do with your gold/silver in the event of a massive crash.

Gold/silver in the context that schiff talks about is a hedge against inflation that is sold in exchange for fiat currency within the parameters of a functioning society. So in the event of a USD crash and zimbabwe-style hyper inflation, I don't see how it is useful to the average person. Basically chicago style violence and looting in every major US city, and massive food shortages, machete gangs roaming around crushing and raping the meek. I am no genius, but the way I see it, when the doomsday scenario that schiff predicts comes to fruition, gold/silver won't insulate you from the much bigger problems that are erupting.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-07-2019 06:27 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

It isnt just the USD and the USA. The whole world is racing to the bottom. China, EU etc. Physical Precious metals demand could easily start in Places like China, EU, before moving tonUSA.

The world isnt ending.

Zerohedge and Peter Schiff et al have been fundamentally right for the last 10 years. Fundamentals have not been important durring that time. This cannot go on for ever. Its musical chairs... A ponzi scheme.

"playing it safe" with Tbonds and walmart stock is an option. I prefer to hold real wealth in my hands.... Ill stick with precious metals and Dollar cost average.

I agree with most everything that you said. The financial world is completely out of whack, especially with artificially low interest rates and out-of-control government and corporate debt. Yet, there is always a reversion to the mean and a day of reckoning. The problem is the timing. This financial foolishness has gone on far longer than anyone would have guessed back in 2008.

Everyone who invests in the stock market knows the old adage: "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." In other words, you can be absolutely right about future economic events, but still lose everything that you own if you have the timing wrong (watch the film "The Big Short"). That is the problem with Zerohedge and Peter Schiff, etc. They have accurately diagnosed the problem, but they have no clue as to when the next financial calamity will occur -- or the extent of the damage.

So, if you do not want to miss out on gigantic gains (as NoMoreTO mentioned) and you also do not want to get left without a seat when the music ends and the ponzi scheme is laid bare (as Iconoclast007 mentioned) then you absolutely must think outside-the-box. Too many people think in terms of a binary choice (either stocks and bonds -- or gold and silver).

How about just not playing the game (of the bankers)? How about investing in real physical assets that are far safer than the stock market, provide a greater return over time, create a life-long income stream (unlike gold and silver), and are recession proof? For example, you can invest in agriculture. It is a physical asset with a limited supply that will never decrease in value to zero, which (if you select the right crops) will consistently produce a return on investment greater than the stock market, which creates a life-long income stream, and is recession proof (everyone needs to eat, even during a depression).

In summary, think-outside-the box. Do not play someone else's game, especially when the deck is already stacked against you. I have arranged my financial affairs so that I have little exposure to the next financial calamity, yet by taking strategic protective positions and by opting out of the financial system I am still in a better financial position even if a financial meltdown never occurs. You want to place yourself in an asymmetric financial position with little downside and an even better upside than even a hot stock market can provide. It can be done. Agriculture is simply one such asset class.

Hint: When you review this chart, the farmland discussed is U.S. farmland, which is very expensive. You can build a farm for far less elsewhere in the world, with a much higher return on investment. Those returns far outshine stocks with far less less risk.

   

   

At this retail price, even if you received only one dollar apiece as a grower, how many avocado trees do you need to grow to produce a great annual income? It is possible for an avocado tree to produce 200 to 300 fruit per tree once it is about 5 to 7 years of age. So, if 100 trees produce 200 to 300 avocados, this will produce 20,000 to 30,000 avocados which equals a $20,000 to $30,000 annual income. So, just plant enough trees to create the annual income that you want to achieve.

[Iconoclast007]

I like the Idea of owning a small farm for personal , organic food production as a resilient store of wealth durring a recession or depression. it could also be like an insurance policy in case a famine occurred. I consider it more of a life Hack than an investment that would pay dividends. Dont forget you never really own realestate ...you simply rent it from the government ( Propert taxes). here in Estonia I eat onlty raw organic goats milk, fresh eggs and Deer and Moose meat.

That said, I think a farm as a business model is a poor investment. To compete with big ag you need large economies of scale. Also, during the great depression , food was plentiful but nobody could afford to pay for it and farmers could not make a profit , often paying workers in produce. Deflation is a bitch

You could have purchased a farm for a few gold coins in the great depression..........

It doesnt have to be so black and white in context to complete collapse and Zimbabwe style hyperinflation. Say the dollar or the Yuan or the Euro loose 50% of their value . Silver would go to $50 which would be more than 3x more money right now. If silver hit the inflation adjusted price it hit in the 70s when the Hunt bros cornered the market it would be alike $683 in todays USD. I think silver will hit close to that number again. There is way less silver above ground than paper traded in ETF *SLV,GLD etc. When people figure this out there will likelu not be anough PHYSICAL silver and gold to meet demand.

If it gets bad enough , i mean a complete break down in rule of law and canabalism , well then gold wont matter as much. Beans , Bullets will.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-07-2019 05:01 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

That said, I think a farm as a business model is a poor investment. To compete with big ag you need large economies of scale. Also, during the great depression , food was plentiful but nobody could afford to pay for it and farmers could not make a profit , often paying workers in produce.

Obviously, you do not want to compete with big ag. That is why I said "which (if you select the right crops) will consistently produce a return on investment greater than the stock market." Selecting the right crops mean not competing against big ag and growing organically. I am not talking about growing wheat, rice, or soybeans. I am talking about growing premium semi-exotic crops.

Who cares about what happened during the Great Depression, when food was grown locally and eaten locally. Today, crops are shipped all over the world. Where does it get shipped? It gets shipped to those willing to pay the highest price -- or to those who contractually locked in a price in a futures contract. If you grow premium food targeted to premium buyers, you will never lack a market willing to pay for that premium product -- even during a financial calamity.

[Hypugamy]

(04-07-2019 05:01 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  

I like the Idea of owning a small farm for personal , organic food production as a resilient store of wealth durring a recession or depression. it could also be like an insurance policy in case a famine occurred. I consider it more of a life Hack than an investment that would pay dividends. Dont forget you never really own realestate ...you simply rent it from the government ( Propert taxes). here in Estonia I eat onlty raw organic goats milk, fresh eggs and Deer and Moose meat.

That said, I think a farm as a business model is a poor investment. To compete with big ag you need large economies of scale. Also, during the great depression , food was plentiful but nobody could afford to pay for it and farmers could not make a profit , often paying workers in produce. Deflation is a bitch

You could have purchased a farm for a few gold coins in the great depression..........

It doesnt have to be so black and white in context to complete collapse and Zimbabwe style hyperinflation. Say the dollar or the Yuan or the Euro loose 50% of their value . Silver would go to $50 which would be more than 3x more money right now. If silver hit the inflation adjusted price it hit in the 70s when the Hunt bros cornered the market it would be alike $683 in todays USD. I think silver will hit close to that number again. There is way less silver above ground than paper traded in ETF *SLV,GLD etc. When people figure this out there will likelu not be anough PHYSICAL silver and gold to meet demand.

If it gets bad enough , i mean a complete break down in rule of law and canabalism , well then gold wont matter as much. Beans , Bullets will.

Great depression was pre-welfare state and pre-mass 3rd world immigration. In the event of a great depression today, it will look more like Venezuela with massive food shortages and cannibalism/violence. I don't think it's going to be as simple as "Well fellow white people, you should've been smart and bought schiff gold like me! Now I'm going to buy a farm, if you want to work for me I can pay you in rootabaggas uh huh huh huh!"

Inflation hasn't always correlated with gold/silver prices historically, or it can take 30 years to catch up.

Nothing wrong with buying gold and I do agree it has inherent value, but I don't think it's the cure-all financial solution that it's being made out to be.