[JayMillz]

This woman was lucky

[Enigma]

Could some of you be more biased?

I see so many posts about the "growing police state", yet an unarmed teenager is -- based on several eyewitness accounts -- murdered execution style in the middle of a street and you want people to stand around in a circle with candles?

What does a candle light vigil solve? Obviously looting isn't exactly constructive, but it's a result of a group of people who are frustrated to the point of lashing out in any way they can.

There are stories of police using unnecessary force and/or killing coming out on a very regular basis. The rioting is the only reason this particular case is such a large story.

By the way:



Nothing is solved by allowing the "justice" system to run its course either. None of these cops are ever held accountable past a paid suspension.

They haven't even interviewed the friend that was with the victim when he was killed:

And what does "lack of father figures" have to do with it?

Riots aren't limited to black people or the West, so I'm not sure what comments about the family structure in black American communities even have to do with it.

[Enigma]

(08-11-2014 10:32 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Because they'd be shot on the spot if they tried rioting in white neighborhoods. No way the cops would even let a mob get that close to the wealthy areas.

Meanwhile 82 shootings in Chicago on 4th of July weekend, mostly if not entirely black-on-black and I recall seeing no anti-violence protests. But if a non-black kills even a single black, it's a time to take to the streets.

Again, why is this a race issue?

This is an issue of an officer of the law murdering an unarmed individual, not random gang violence.

[El Chinito loco]

If people in these neighborhoods don't like people from outside running businesses and "extracting" resources the solutions are fairly simple. They can pool family and community resource money together to create lending pools so enterprising individuals can start their own businesses. This is especially useful when banks won't lend money to lower income communities.

They can create non profit social programs where unemployed young men can be taught productive trade skills that will also benefit the community. With a living wage these young people are far more likely to maintain a close cohesive bond to society which will lessen certain criminal tendencies. With a relatively law abiding community it will also cut down on abusive police and overreactionary tactics.

The next generation can then work to better themselves with the additional advantage of being raised in a traditional functional household. The blueprint for success is no mystery and you can clearly see where this has worked before.

Whether or not people want to put in the effort to make this happen is ultimately their choice though.

[Feisbook Control]

I think the people saying that these blacks are excluded from society are taking the easy way out. Let's start with the premise that they are excluded from society, that there is a conspiracy by white people to keep black people down. Why play into that then? Why help the evil white guys?

Pretty much every other community that arrives in the U.S. polices itself informally precisely because they don't want the police coming in. They go out of their way to avoid creating a bad name for themselves. If some young guys start creating problems, the community elders call their parents in and tell them to pull their kids in line or else. Likewise, they band together economically to form their own business associations and loan money from within the community to others within the community. The Chinese, Jews, and no doubt others, are masters at this game. Then there are the schools. The parents expect their children to do well in school and they even get to the point where their schools are better than those in white neighbourhoods.

I have spent the majority of my adult life working in education, and the majority of that has been in schools in underclass communities in three countries (Australia, U.K., Taiwan). I've worked with white, black, and various Asian kids. There is an underlying issue (or set of issues) with all of them that could be summed up as a poverty of spirit. They are people with no pride in themselves and who just want to make excuses for not trying. I once worked at a school where there was a computer lab with all of the power sockets kicked in, only half of them still functional. Money is not the issue. That lab would have cost a few hundred thousand dollars, yet it was pearls before swine. Likewise, if you'd given me the choice between a 10% pay increase or effectively disciplining the worst 10% of the class (because my hands were usually tied), I'd have chosen the latter every single time. Anyone who tells you that a lack of funding is the problem in education is someone you should probably regard with great suspicion.

I grew up in a family that was highly active in very left wing politics as a child, but they were of the old left. I saw my father become extremely disillusioned with what the left became, particularly in running a business where he tried to be very good to his workers but got shafted all the time by either them or unions and the government in general. Likewise, working in education has made me extremely cynical about the dysfunctional nature of modern society to the point where I now describe myself as far right. A huge amount of this has been driven by wishy washy liberal policies that have had a disastrous effect upon the poor.

Who poor blacks really need to be lashing out at is the white liberals and the black class of political hucksters who continue to enrich themselves whilst doing absolutely nothing to improve the situation of those they supposedly represent. It's probably not going to happen though, because it's much easier to blame someone else. Nothing will improve though. That is the real tragedy.

[Jaydublin]

(08-11-2014 07:17 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I understand the anger from the shooting, but if you're going to loot, why not loot the rich areas instead of your own neighborhood? You're not fighting against authority if you destroy the area you live in.

"Dont bite the hand that feeds you"

[berserk]

Looting like that is just criminal sociopathic behavior. Seen it several times growing up with white and brown people. Just a case of 'I gotta get mine' and zero morality.

Lets be real, you don't loot because you're pissed. If you're really pissed then attack the police with stones and molotovs like in the rest of the world.

[scorpion]

Why do so many young black men love to attack people? Why do we have to pretend like that is not a fact?

Why does the black community always respond with such ridiculous crocodile tears every time a young, black thug is gunned down by a white man, but the reaction is 100x more subdued if it's black on black? Dead is dead, right? Why is it only a problem if a white man pulls the trigger?

Why do black people behave like complete idiots and destroy their own communities with rioting? Is that a constructive form of protest?

I haven't really been following this story but it seems like just another Trayvon situation, this time with riots thrown in. I just don't care anymore, it's a well-worn media spectacle at this point. A young black man is killed by a white man, it's suddenly the biggest story in the country and we all must self-flagellate and decry "systemic racism" and such. I. Just. Don't. Fucking. Care.

Don't want to get shot? Then don't fucking attack a cop and try to steal his gun. Don't want your kid to get shot down in the street? Then don't raise him to be a fucking thug.

There's just so much absolute idiocy coming out of the black community and no one is calling them out on it because they don't want to seem racist. It's bullshit. The black community is a fucking disaster, and they need to start taking responsibility for that instead of just blaming white people and racism. It's pretty easy to avoid getting wrongfully killed by a cop, and if it does happen (and I'm not saying it doesn't) the proper response is not to riot and destroy your community. That just makes things worse for everyone in the long run.

The black community is in desperate need of another Malcolm X who can make them identify as something other than a permanent victim class. The left has basically destroyed the fabric of the black community over the past several decades by creating a culture of victimhood and government dependence. So now a large percentage of blacks believe they are incapable of improving themselves because they are victims of racism. It's extremely toxic. It's just another point of evidence of how absolutely evil progressivism is: in their efforts to destroy white, Christian men and the society they built, they have essentially sacrificed the future of American blacks and intentionally rendered them a permanent underclass. They are using the dysfunction of the black community as a tool to destabilize society. They don't want to actually fix the problems that black people face, they just want to exploit them for their own purposes.

The biggest racists you will find are inevitably on the left. A conservative might not personally like black people, but genuinely wants them to live a better life and improve their communities. The liberal will swear up and down they love black people, but constantly reminds them they are an oppressed victim class who can't do anything at all without the government supporting them. Again, who's the racist?

[Jaydublin]

(08-12-2014 08:42 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 10:32 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Because they'd be shot on the spot if they tried rioting in white neighborhoods. No way the cops would even let a mob get that close to the wealthy areas.

Meanwhile 82 shootings in Chicago on 4th of July weekend, mostly if not entirely black-on-black and I recall seeing no anti-violence protests. But if a non-black kills even a single black, it's a time to take to the streets.

Again, why is this a race issue?

This is an issue of an officer of the law murdering an unarmed individual, not random gang violence.

Because we all know that if this were black on black, black on white, or white on white there would not be this rioting.

[DjembaDjemba]

We need more inter-racial sexing to solve this situation. As a mixed race person I volunteer my cock to women of all colours as a bridge to this seemingly insurmountable divide.

[Enigma]

(08-12-2014 09:26 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

Because we all know that if this were black on black, black on white, or white on white there would not be this rioting.

America isn't (becoming) a police state?

White people don't riot over hockey and soccer games?

Latinos, Asians, Europeans, Russians, Africans, and the entire rest of the world don't riot?

Let me guess, the black American community is responsible for all of the riots in the world? Did Western culture cause riots in Vietnam and Russia?

Moscow riots after "murder by migrant"

"The protest in southern Moscow was against the killing of a young ethnic Russian stabbed to death on Thursday.

Protesters stormed a shopping centre, smashing windows, and then overran a wholesale vegetable market searching for migrant workers.

There were chants of "Russia for the Russians" and "White Power".

Moscow police chief Anatoliy Yakunin blamed the rioting, in the Biryulyovo district, on "extremists", many of whom he said were drunk."

Police in Singapore have arrested 27 South Asian suspects after hundreds of people took part in a riot sparked by the death of an Indian national.

[speakeasy]

(08-12-2014 09:37 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

We need more inter-racial sexing to solve this situation. As a mixed race person I volunteer my cock to women of all colours as a bridge to this seemingly insurmountable divide.

Lol. Well if that was the solution Brazil should have a lower crime rate than we have!

(08-12-2014 06:13 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

This woman was lucky

That the lawyer doesn't want to talk about what led up to the incident makes me suspicious. My guess is that woman was behaving terribly or why would the lawyer hide it? Most likely she attacked the cop first.

Look, people can talk about how many brutal police there are. Sure there's always going to be some asshole cops, but I also don't believe cops are just going to walk up and start beating someone's ass out of the blue. When these things happen, there is usually a lot that lead up to it that you didn't see, where if you had seen it, you'd at least understand the whole context. For example, that professor above, she as acting like a complete bitch, refusing to show her ID, complaining about the officers tone of voice(there's nothing in the law that says a cop must speak to you in a friendly tone), then refusing to put her hands behind her back. She even attacked the officer once on the ground. They have to go through shit like this day in and day out. I could NEVER be a cop. Because if I was the cop in that video I posted, I'd have fucking lost it when she kicked me. My attitude would be, "Bitch did you just kick me?! They don't pay me enough take this kind of bullshit..." and probably slapped her ass a few good times if it wasn't on camera.

Now I'm not saying what that cop did to that woman on the freeway was right or justified. But I'd still like to hear the entire story that led up to it and find out what the lawyer is hiding. We have NO idea what that woman did prior to filming. She might grabbed the cops nuts and crushed them in her first for all we know and made him go berserk. You don't know. Something happened and we're not getting the full story. This is the same thing women do when they scream rape but don't want to talk about all the shit she did that led up to the situation. It doesn't make it right, but often times she's not an innocent victim herself.

[speakeasy]

(08-12-2014 09:22 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Why does the black community always respond with such ridiculous crocodile tears every time a young, black thug is gunned down by a white man, but the reaction is 100x more subdued if it's black on black? Dead is dead, right? Why is it only a problem if a white man pulls the trigger?

This is the point that I'm trying to make. We have all the energy in the world to mobilize and protest and wave our black fists and scream, "no justice no peace" if a man named Zimmerman kills a black kid. But 99 times out of 100 it's a black man killing another black man in a senseless shooting and where is all this attention for that? People notice this shit. Someone sent me a personal IM(won't name who) that they didn't like the fact that I brought up to Chicago 4th of July weekend. But I do think it provides an overall context that makes it relevant. Just imagine this, what if during that same weekend 82 blacks had been shot by whites in Chicago. Can you IMAGINE the reaction?? It would've first of all been declared a genocidal race war and open season on black people, you'd have seen marches with thousands demanding that the cops protect these communities, you'd have likely had riots and retaliation. I don't care what anyone says, you KNOW that's what would happen. But let 82 blacks shoot other blacks and not a peep.

So why is that? This is something we need to get to the bottom of. Because when I look at all the shooting deaths of black men in this country, and it totals in the many thousands, 95%+ of the time, it's not coming from a cop or a white person. They are not the number one threat to us. But we treat them like they are. We need to be rational about this shit.

I know some are going to say, "Well because they are cops we hold them to a higher standard than some street thug thus it deserves more attention." And yes, I do hold a cop to a higher standard, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that on the list of dangers black people face, murder by cop or by random white person is very far down the list compared to murder by criminals amongst us. That's just the objective fact. If you are red pill, you can't deny this.

[speakeasy]

I agree 100% with Philochko on this issue. Skip to 4:40:

[Joga Bonito]

(08-11-2014 10:32 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Meanwhile 82 shootings in Chicago on 4th of July weekend, mostly if not entirely black-on-black and I recall seeing no anti-violence protests. But if a non-black kills even a single black, it's a time to take to the streets.

You should be careful not confuse you not being familiar with various community initiatives as black leaders doing nothing. Take the 75th precinct in East New York as an example which was an absolute warzone in the 80's and 90's. Due to an organization called Man Up!, one of the most dangerous areas of East NY, has been almost completely pacified for the last year and recorded no murders for the past 363 days(at the time of the article). The organization and their success is detailed in the NY Times article here:

Quote:

In the storefront window on Van Siclen Avenue, an electronic sign shows a running total of how long it has been since the last shooting took place in an area of roughly 20 square blocks in East New York, Brooklyn.
Related

A map of shootings and homicides in 2010-11 in East New York, Brooklyn.
As of Thursday afternoon, the sign read:

363 Days No Shootings No Killings.

This week one year ago, a neighborhood development organization, Man Up!, began to send people into the streets to figure out where the violence was going next so they could hit the pause button. Mediate. Listen. Talk.

Some workers in the project had been street criminals themselves; others had been victims of violent crime, losing partners and children to it.

In Chicago, a similar organization called Cure Violence, has also seen a ton of success which you can read about here, in curbing gun violence wherever the program was deployed in various neighborhoods.

This article details a group of Black clergymen and women in DC that are working together to find solutions for the afflictions in the commmunity, while this list details tens of different types of community organizations that largely go unnoticed, even though they do great and admirable work. At the end of the day, rhetoric can only do so much, as there are many deep seated issues within these communities, that are usually rooted in economics.

[jariel]

(08-12-2014 08:57 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

If people in these neighborhoods don't like people from outside running businesses and "extracting" resources the solutions are fairly simple. They can pool family and community resource money together to create lending pools so enterprising individuals can start their own businesses. This is especially useful when banks won't lend money to lower income communities.

They can create non profit social programs where unemployed young men can be taught productive trade skills that will also benefit the community. With a living wage these young people are far more likely to maintain a close cohesive bond to society which will lessen certain criminal tendencies. With a relatively law abiding community it will also cut down on abusive police and overreactionary tactics.

The next generation can then work to better themselves with the additional advantage of being raised in a traditional functional household. The blueprint for success is no mystery and you can clearly see where this has worked before.

Whether or not people want to put in the effort to make this happen is ultimately their choice though.

Your post is quite rational in thought, but do some research on the destruction of Black Wall Street, it's not as if people haven't thought the way that you suggest they should.

In other words, things are easier said than done, you have to have a society where the authorities actually want there to be economic empowerment and freedom from their shackles.

That type of society doesn't exist, especially for the people of places like Ferguson, so things are the way they are.

[HeyPete]

I look at this "blacks always being the victims" and shake my head.

My own personal story is illustrative. I grew up in a mixed, lower-middle class and below neighborhood on the west coast.

When I was a kid in the 70's. The blacks in the neighborhood generally hung out, didn't work and made trouble. All of the black kids were basically bullies.

There were Mexican, Laotian, Filipino, Korean and several other ethnicities in the neighborhood.

The Chinese opened small restaurants and cleaner business', the Laotians opened restaurants and ran small markets. The Vietnamese opened restaurants and nail places. The Mexicans opened restaurants, auto repair places etc. The Koreans opened stores and handled the insurance business and on and on down the line. They helped each other when someone new arrived.

If they couldn't find a job they didn't bitch and moan like the blacks in the neighborhood. The Mexicans would sell oranges, walnuts, opened fruit stands, shoe shines anything to make a living. The Asian groups would do the same and always kept their areas impeccably clean. These immigrant groups created their own jobs instead of waiting for handouts.

Hardly any of those groups are there now. They've all moved up and moved off to better safer neighborhoods away from blacks. It took most of them less than a generation to do what blacks haven't done in 100s of years. And don't tell me these groups don't face racism, too. Because they do.

The neighborhood went downhill as the non-black minorities moved out, but is pulsing back to life with hard working immigrants from Central America and Cambodia. The blacks still there. Still bitching. Still causing trouble.

[speakeasy]

(08-13-2014 12:28 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I look at this "blacks always being the victims" and shake my head.

My own personal story is illustrative. I grew up in a mixed, lower-middle class and below neighborhood on the west coast.

When I was a kid in the 70's. The blacks in the neighborhood generally hung out, didn't work and made trouble. All of the black kids were basically bullies.

There were Mexican, Laotian, Filipino, Korean and several other ethnicities in the neighborhood.

The Chinese opened small restaurants and cleaner business', the Laotians opened restaurants and ran small markets. The Vietnamese opened restaurants and nail places. The Mexicans opened restaurants, auto repair places etc. The Koreans opened stores and handled the insurance business and on and on down the line. They helped each other when someone new arrived.

If they couldn't find a job they didn't bitch and moan like the blacks in the neighborhood. The Mexicans would sell oranges, walnuts, opened fruit stands, shoe shines anything to make a living. The Asian groups would do the same and always kept their areas impeccably clean. These immigrant groups created their own jobs instead of waiting for handouts.

Hardly any of those groups are there now. They've all moved up and moved off to better safer neighborhoods away from blacks. It took most of them less than a generation to do what blacks haven't done in 100s of years. And don't tell me these groups don't face racism, too. Because they do.

The neighborhood went downhill as the non-black minorities moved out, but is pulsing back to life with hard working immigrants from Central America and Cambodia. The blacks still there. Still bitching. Still causing trouble.

Just a few points, a huge proportion of us did not grow up in neighborhoods like this. There's been a black middle class for some time. I just want to make sure you realize that you are talking about a segment of underclass black society, not our entire group. I've long said that unfortunately, the black middle class is largely invisible to many people. It's people like these rioters that are what you see on the news. I go to the main park in my city on Sundays and I see black middle class families everywhere with their kids and having picnics and BBQs after church and enjoying their lives. Let's not paint the entire black race in a broad brush. I tire of that.

Also, let's not continue this narrative of blacks = welfare while immigrants are hard working. There's a lot of myth in that. For example, Blacks, whites and Hispanics use the same percentage of welfare. Blacks have actually been moving off welfare while Hispanic use is trending up. Look at the chart below. Statistics don't always support the stereotype, in this case, the hard working Hispanics vs lazy blacks looking for handouts.

[HeyPete]

(08-13-2014 12:39 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:28 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I look at this "blacks always being the victims" and shake my head.

My own personal story is illustrative. I grew up in a mixed, lower-middle class and below neighborhood on the west coast.

When I was a kid in the 70's. The blacks in the neighborhood generally hung out, didn't work and made trouble. All of the black kids were basically bullies.

There were Mexican, Laotian, Filipino, Korean and several other ethnicities in the neighborhood.

The Chinese opened small restaurants and cleaner business', the Laotians opened restaurants and ran small markets. The Vietnamese opened restaurants and nail places. The Mexicans opened restaurants, auto repair places etc. The Koreans opened stores and handled the insurance business and on and on down the line. They helped each other when someone new arrived.

If they couldn't find a job they didn't bitch and moan like the blacks in the neighborhood. The Mexicans would sell oranges, walnuts, opened fruit stands, shoe shines anything to make a living. The Asian groups would do the same and always kept their areas impeccably clean. These immigrant groups created their own jobs instead of waiting for handouts.

Hardly any of those groups are there now. They've all moved up and moved off to better safer neighborhoods away from blacks. It took most of them less than a generation to do what blacks haven't done in 100s of years. And don't tell me these groups don't face racism, too. Because they do.

The neighborhood went downhill as the non-black minorities moved out, but is pulsing back to life with hard working immigrants from Central America and Cambodia. The blacks still there. Still bitching. Still causing trouble.

Just a few points, a huge proportion of us did not grow up in neighborhoods like this. There's been a black middle class for some time. I just want to make sure you realize that you are talking about a segment of underclass black society, not our entire group. I've long said that unfortunately, the black middle class is largely invisible to many people. It's people like these rioters that are what you see on the news. I go to the main park in my city on Sundays and I see black middle class families everywhere with their kids and having picnics and BBQs after church and enjoying their lives. Let's not paint the entire black race in a broad brush. I tire of that.

Also, let's not continue this narrative of blacks = welfare while immigrants are hard working. There's a lot of myth in that. For example, Blacks, whites and Hispanics use the same percentage of welfare. Blacks have actually been moving off welfare while Hispanic use is trending up. Look at the chart below. Statistics don't always support the stereotype, in this case, the hard working Hispanics vs lazy blacks looking for handouts.

I get what you are saying about the black middle class. But that chart is utter crap.

Hispanics can be Puerto Rican or Dominican or Mexican or Guatemalan or Bolivian etc. and they are all lumped together to make this huge number. So, if they were separate like it should be, the number would be nowhere close to blacks when it comes to welfare.

[speakeasy]

(08-13-2014 12:45 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:39 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:28 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I look at this "blacks always being the victims" and shake my head.

My own personal story is illustrative. I grew up in a mixed, lower-middle class and below neighborhood on the west coast.

When I was a kid in the 70's. The blacks in the neighborhood generally hung out, didn't work and made trouble. All of the black kids were basically bullies.

There were Mexican, Laotian, Filipino, Korean and several other ethnicities in the neighborhood.

The Chinese opened small restaurants and cleaner business', the Laotians opened restaurants and ran small markets. The Vietnamese opened restaurants and nail places. The Mexicans opened restaurants, auto repair places etc. The Koreans opened stores and handled the insurance business and on and on down the line. They helped each other when someone new arrived.

If they couldn't find a job they didn't bitch and moan like the blacks in the neighborhood. The Mexicans would sell oranges, walnuts, opened fruit stands, shoe shines anything to make a living. The Asian groups would do the same and always kept their areas impeccably clean. These immigrant groups created their own jobs instead of waiting for handouts.

Hardly any of those groups are there now. They've all moved up and moved off to better safer neighborhoods away from blacks. It took most of them less than a generation to do what blacks haven't done in 100s of years. And don't tell me these groups don't face racism, too. Because they do.

The neighborhood went downhill as the non-black minorities moved out, but is pulsing back to life with hard working immigrants from Central America and Cambodia. The blacks still there. Still bitching. Still causing trouble.

Just a few points, a huge proportion of us did not grow up in neighborhoods like this. There's been a black middle class for some time. I just want to make sure you realize that you are talking about a segment of underclass black society, not our entire group. I've long said that unfortunately, the black middle class is largely invisible to many people. It's people like these rioters that are what you see on the news. I go to the main park in my city on Sundays and I see black middle class families everywhere with their kids and having picnics and BBQs after church and enjoying their lives. Let's not paint the entire black race in a broad brush. I tire of that.

Also, let's not continue this narrative of blacks = welfare while immigrants are hard working. There's a lot of myth in that. For example, Blacks, whites and Hispanics use the same percentage of welfare. Blacks have actually been moving off welfare while Hispanic use is trending up. Look at the chart below. Statistics don't always support the stereotype, in this case, the hard working Hispanics vs lazy blacks looking for handouts.

I get what you are saying about the black middle class. But that chart is utter crap.

Hispanics can be Puerto Rican or Dominican or Mexican or Guatemalan or Bolivian etc. and they are all lumped together to make this huge number. So, if they were separate like it should be, the number would be nowhere close to blacks when it comes to welfare.

Well that's me saying the black number is inaccurate because it lumps together black Americans, Haitian immigrants, African immigrants, Somali refugees, etc.

It wouldn't change the per capita welfare rate. It doesn't matter if the Hispanics come from different countries. All that matters is per capita rate.

[jariel]

(08-13-2014 12:45 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I get what you are saying about the black middle class. But that chart is utter crap.

Hispanics can be Puerto Rican or Dominican or Mexican or Guatemalan or Bolivian etc. and they are all lumped together to make this huge number. So, if they were separate like it should be, the number would be nowhere close to blacks when it comes to welfare.

So if the information is changed, in fact falsified, to support your narrative, then it becomes factual?

Do some research on the term "Hispanic".

"Hispanics" didn't ask to be homogenized, no one on the planet was called a "Hispanic" until the 1970s.

[jariel]

(08-13-2014 12:54 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Well that's me saying the black number is inaccurate because it lumps together black Americans, Haitian immigrants, African immigrants, Somali refugees, etc.

It wouldn't change the per capita welfare rate. It doesn't matter if the Hispanics come from different countries. All that matters is per capita rate.

Why bother?

Let him calculate the raw numbers, the percentages may be fairly even with each other, but the raw numbers are ridiculously far apart given that you don't have equal populations of people amongst the various groups.

[HeyPete]

(08-13-2014 12:54 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:45 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:39 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:28 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I look at this "blacks always being the victims" and shake my head.

My own personal story is illustrative. I grew up in a mixed, lower-middle class and below neighborhood on the west coast.

When I was a kid in the 70's. The blacks in the neighborhood generally hung out, didn't work and made trouble. All of the black kids were basically bullies.

There were Mexican, Laotian, Filipino, Korean and several other ethnicities in the neighborhood.

The Chinese opened small restaurants and cleaner business', the Laotians opened restaurants and ran small markets. The Vietnamese opened restaurants and nail places. The Mexicans opened restaurants, auto repair places etc. The Koreans opened stores and handled the insurance business and on and on down the line. They helped each other when someone new arrived.

If they couldn't find a job they didn't bitch and moan like the blacks in the neighborhood. The Mexicans would sell oranges, walnuts, opened fruit stands, shoe shines anything to make a living. The Asian groups would do the same and always kept their areas impeccably clean. These immigrant groups created their own jobs instead of waiting for handouts.

Hardly any of those groups are there now. They've all moved up and moved off to better safer neighborhoods away from blacks. It took most of them less than a generation to do what blacks haven't done in 100s of years. And don't tell me these groups don't face racism, too. Because they do.

The neighborhood went downhill as the non-black minorities moved out, but is pulsing back to life with hard working immigrants from Central America and Cambodia. The blacks still there. Still bitching. Still causing trouble.

Just a few points, a huge proportion of us did not grow up in neighborhoods like this. There's been a black middle class for some time. I just want to make sure you realize that you are talking about a segment of underclass black society, not our entire group. I've long said that unfortunately, the black middle class is largely invisible to many people. It's people like these rioters that are what you see on the news. I go to the main park in my city on Sundays and I see black middle class families everywhere with their kids and having picnics and BBQs after church and enjoying their lives. Let's not paint the entire black race in a broad brush. I tire of that.

Also, let's not continue this narrative of blacks = welfare while immigrants are hard working. There's a lot of myth in that. For example, Blacks, whites and Hispanics use the same percentage of welfare. Blacks have actually been moving off welfare while Hispanic use is trending up. Look at the chart below. Statistics don't always support the stereotype, in this case, the hard working Hispanics vs lazy blacks looking for handouts.

I get what you are saying about the black middle class. But that chart is utter crap.

Hispanics can be Puerto Rican or Dominican or Mexican or Guatemalan or Bolivian etc. and they are all lumped together to make this huge number. So, if they were separate like it should be, the number would be nowhere close to blacks when it comes to welfare.

Well that's me saying the black number is inaccurate because it lumps together black Americans, Haitian immigrants, African immigrants, Somali refugees, etc.

It wouldn't change the per capita welfare rate. It doesn't matter if the Hispanics come from different countries. All that matters is per capita rate.

So, I guess congratulations are in order since after 300 years blacks are finally, albeit modestly, lowering their welfare numbers. And they've been speaking English, sort of, for all that time.

It's amazing that it only took 10 times the amount of time to do what non-English speakers already accomplished.

I'll see if the government will give you a $100.

[HeyPete]

(08-13-2014 01:03 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:54 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Well that's me saying the black number is inaccurate because it lumps together black Americans, Haitian immigrants, African immigrants, Somali refugees, etc.

It wouldn't change the per capita welfare rate. It doesn't matter if the Hispanics come from different countries. All that matters is per capita rate.

Why bother?

Let him calculate the raw numbers, the percentages may be fairly even with each other, but the raw numbers are ridiculously far apart given that you don't have equal populations of people amongst the various groups.

Yeah, because those groups are so huge they really distort the numbers.

[speakeasy]

(08-13-2014 01:35 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:54 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:45 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:39 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 12:28 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  

I look at this "blacks always being the victims" and shake my head.

My own personal story is illustrative. I grew up in a mixed, lower-middle class and below neighborhood on the west coast.

When I was a kid in the 70's. The blacks in the neighborhood generally hung out, didn't work and made trouble. All of the black kids were basically bullies.

There were Mexican, Laotian, Filipino, Korean and several other ethnicities in the neighborhood.

The Chinese opened small restaurants and cleaner business', the Laotians opened restaurants and ran small markets. The Vietnamese opened restaurants and nail places. The Mexicans opened restaurants, auto repair places etc. The Koreans opened stores and handled the insurance business and on and on down the line. They helped each other when someone new arrived.

If they couldn't find a job they didn't bitch and moan like the blacks in the neighborhood. The Mexicans would sell oranges, walnuts, opened fruit stands, shoe shines anything to make a living. The Asian groups would do the same and always kept their areas impeccably clean. These immigrant groups created their own jobs instead of waiting for handouts.

Hardly any of those groups are there now. They've all moved up and moved off to better safer neighborhoods away from blacks. It took most of them less than a generation to do what blacks haven't done in 100s of years. And don't tell me these groups don't face racism, too. Because they do.

The neighborhood went downhill as the non-black minorities moved out, but is pulsing back to life with hard working immigrants from Central America and Cambodia. The blacks still there. Still bitching. Still causing trouble.

Just a few points, a huge proportion of us did not grow up in neighborhoods like this. There's been a black middle class for some time. I just want to make sure you realize that you are talking about a segment of underclass black society, not our entire group. I've long said that unfortunately, the black middle class is largely invisible to many people. It's people like these rioters that are what you see on the news. I go to the main park in my city on Sundays and I see black middle class families everywhere with their kids and having picnics and BBQs after church and enjoying their lives. Let's not paint the entire black race in a broad brush. I tire of that.

Also, let's not continue this narrative of blacks = welfare while immigrants are hard working. There's a lot of myth in that. For example, Blacks, whites and Hispanics use the same percentage of welfare. Blacks have actually been moving off welfare while Hispanic use is trending up. Look at the chart below. Statistics don't always support the stereotype, in this case, the hard working Hispanics vs lazy blacks looking for handouts.

I get what you are saying about the black middle class. But that chart is utter crap.

Hispanics can be Puerto Rican or Dominican or Mexican or Guatemalan or Bolivian etc. and they are all lumped together to make this huge number. So, if they were separate like it should be, the number would be nowhere close to blacks when it comes to welfare.

Well that's me saying the black number is inaccurate because it lumps together black Americans, Haitian immigrants, African immigrants, Somali refugees, etc.

It wouldn't change the per capita welfare rate. It doesn't matter if the Hispanics come from different countries. All that matters is per capita rate.

So, I guess congratulations are in order since after 300 years blacks are finally, albeit modestly, lowering their welfare numbers. And they've been speaking English, sort of, for all that time.

It's amazing that it only took 10 times the amount of time to do what non-English speakers already accomplished.

I'll see if the government will give you a $100.

Why are you being a smart ass? We don't need to go back 300 years. My parents were alive when blacks couldn't even vote or go to school in some states. This isn't ancient history, they can tell me the stories as they lived through it.

And if it weren't for blacks fighting for civil rights you immigrants would've never even been given a chance to come here as non-white immigration was mostly banned prior to the civil rights movement.

And while you complain of Hispanic being lumped together, I think it's far more absurd that you lump non-English speakers in the same category. As if El Salvadorean and Korean immigrants have anything in common or have attained the same level of financial and scholastic accomplishments.