B_n_W_Spade:
I’m gonna respond to various of your points in the order that you brought them up. Surely, Dalaran, or any other guy can chime in also to give his perspective to the extent that each of us may have had different experiences.
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
I've had 4 lessons, started listening to Salsa on pandora and I think I'm finally getting the feel for the basic steps, back-and-forth, compact, feeling that walking rhythm!
One thing about salsa is that you can continue to learn for years, depending the level of sophistication that you want to get, and your goals can change over time. I am still learning various kinds of moves, and sometimes I am also learning what I do NOT want or various aspects of social interaction. With salsa, you can mix it up and experiment.
In the beginning your goals may merely be to achieve a bare level of competence to be able to socially dance… accordingly this may entail striving to be able to step and to hear the beat and to lead the girl (all at the same time), then maybe a little later, you may want to add that you need a variety of basic moves to lead and to hopefully be able to keep various girls entertained through a whole song. Then, a little later, you may want to add more interesting and flashy moves to your repertoire of moves. And then later you may want to be able to transition faster or more smoothly or multi-tasking appearing moves or sweep her off her feet moves, or incorporating footwork or turns or body isolation moves etc etc...
Actually, I think that you mentioned that you wanted to learn and employ flashy/sensual moves sooner rather than later, and this sometimes can be a mistake for some guys to attempt to get to that stage too quickly… Although these flashy/sensual moves can be interesting and exciting for girls (especially if the guy can execute the lead well and smoothly), I recommend getting competent at other parts of the dance first, and maybe having some flashy/sensual moves in reserve to “practice” or employ as needed with girls who want to spend more time with you.
I think that some of the very basic dance techniques you will want to attempt to practice on your own too.. especially when it comes to stepping and hearing the music and just having your own visualizations of some of the basic leads. Sometimes you can practice some of the basic dance moves without moving your body, just visualize them over and over and over and then attempt to carry them out. In the beginning, I would spend some time visualizing some new dance moves and then when I got on the dancefloor, I would force myself to remember to employ (and practice) specifically the ones that were new to my visualization.
It takes quite some time for your moves to become second nature to you (like muscle memory rather than using your conscious thinking), and in the beginning you have to spend quite a bit of time and mental energy to visualize your various moves in order that you do NOT blank out when you get to the dance floor and some beautiful doe creature is looking into your eyes and distracting you with giggles (or a sour face) and waiting for you to show her what you got.
When you get on the dance floor, you will be thankful to have a mental vision regarding various moves that you are attempting to lead.. then you try to get your body to do what your vision says.. which comes through practice over and over and over.
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
My dance studio has open house dances every other weekend at the studio or a dance club around town. I went out to one last week and will go to another one tonight. Lots of great dancers, I simply can't compete at this point.
Each guy is going to be different in regards to how he incorporates socialization and lessons into his schedule and whether he learns at clubs or in studios or in the park or in some backroom and/or a combination of these.
In my first several months (probably close to a year), I would practice in places outside of where I would find my target girls. Accordingly, for example, I danced with a lot of older ladies because I was attempting to get better and better at executing my lead. I would be concentrating on vrious techniques too, which was keeping track of the music and the steps etc. and smoothness and making sure that the lady was following and NOT trying to back lead me. When or if they start to get lippy, then I would move on to other women.
Actually in los angeles, I could go to a different nightclub nearly each night of the week, and sometimes I did engage in these kind of marathon sessions and then take a one hour lesson at a club or a studio and then go straight home afterwards, and then go to work the next day, and then go to the next lesson or club (including a lesson) the next night, etc etc.. In the beginning I focused on ways to best get in my dance practice, and then later as my dance skill level went up, I had been to quite a few places around the town, but I had NOT necessarily been labeled as a beginner by everyone because the LA salsa dance scene is fairly large.. and there should be a lot of dance niches in the chicago area, too.. Also, if you ever travel or find reasons to travel to dance camps that may be taking place in your destination areas, then you should attempt to incorporate dance into your trips.
Regarding inability to compete with guys in the dance arena, you are correct – and you should NOT try (especially in the beginning). You need to differentiate yourself in your own unique ways, and NOT strictly by the dance skills (at least NOT in the beginning). There may be some attributes that you can offer that other skilled dancing guys cannot, for example, you may live in the same area as one of the girls or you may be interested in some similar hobbies – and believe it or NOT, in the beginning, from your perspective, nearly everyone looks like a good or great dancer, but some of the girls either cannot really follow very well (and as a beginner lead you do NOT really realize that some of the girls are NOT as great as they seem) and some of the girls prefer to dance with fairly beginner dancers (even though they may NOT admit to such). And, there are other girls, who say that they want to dance, but they are just going to these dance places to try to meet guys and/or to socialize or exercise… which is fine too because there can be opportunities with these girls that do NOT involve dance skills.
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
I danced with 4 girls last weekend, one (slighty) older woman, one younger one and a few of the instructors.
Personally, in the very beginning while I was getting my dance bearings, I did NOT hang around dance places that much while I was NOT able to get in dancing or to practice because I thought that it was NOT too good for my psych (unless I felt that I was otherwise spending my time well). Surely, you may be having fun for a while when you go to the dance place or you may just find some girls to bounce out of the place, too. Some guys are o.k. with staying in the dance place and NOT dancing, but for my own style, I tried to get in practice while I could.. and maybe the extent to whlch you can practice or even socialize with girls in part depends upon the ratios of girls to guys.
If there are more girls than guys or the place is very comfortable for you, then it may be just good to hang out and meet some of the girls (and the guys) and you may find a few girls that are inclined to practice very basic dance techniques with you.. because even though you are amongst the newest of the guys now, if you keep hanging out at some of these dance venues, then after a while, you will notice that some of the girls have become newer to the dance scene than you..
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
I'm afraid to ask most of these girls to Salsa, like you said Dalaran, my skills/dances with these girls are gonna be timid and shitty right now. I'm afraid if I start asking these cuties to dance with me, they'll be turned off by my inexperience, classify me as beta material, and never want to dance with me again.
This being nervous and concerned about appearing beta might happen, and I had my own self consciousness, insecurities and shyness too, but over the long run you need to keep in mind that there will also be new girls coming into the dance scene over time and there are several ways to influence how people perceive you (whether too beta or NOT). You do NOT necessarily need to project your self as beta, even though you may be stumbling and bumbling in your dance moves in the beginning.. Your confidence will increase over time, and you can still project confidence, even while you are learning the dance moves. There also may be times when you need to tone down your projection of confidence because you need to focus on learning … but some of that beta-ness in learning should be expected, and you can still preserve and even redefine some of those kinds of perceptions of beta that others may develop regarding you with the passage of time and with your ongoing presentation of yourself.
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
Should I stick to dancing with the instructors and other less-experienced girls or older women at these dance events for the time being??
In the beginning, I think that you should dance with whomever will dance with you and follow your lead. If you want to attempt to act more Alpha and NOT be perceived as Beta, then refuse to dance with any girl’s who attempt to backlead you or any girl who complains about your lead or attempts to set the frame in any way…. After a while you are known for such… and there are ways to engage in these kinds of behaviors in tactful and/or strategic ways.
Most of the time, the female instructors are NOT good to have as dance partners but possibly in the very beginning it can be helpful to dance with them in getting your bearings… but you should be attempting to develop a few core areas of dance moves that you can lead with confidence and even develop a few to throw the girl off, so she has got to follow your lead rather than attempting to predict what you are leading or to attempt to back lead. Female dance instructors may be more challenging in the leading department, so you would need to be careful on how you play it and consider whether it is worth the extra effort(s).
Let me give you an example of owning a move that is NOT commonly done. Even as a fairly beginner (maybe six months into dancing), I embraced a few moves to throw off the girl – one move I did frequently, in the very beginning, would be to turn the girl left when girls (even advanced dancers) are so used to turning right. This shows the girl that you are in charge, and if she doesn’t like it, she should dance with someone else. It also can inspire her to have confidence in that you know what you are doing. I am using this left turn as an example, and over the years, I have evolved several of these kinds of moves to make sure that the girl is following me and NOT just doing whatever she wants… On the other hand, sometimes, there will be space to allow her to do whatever she wants, as well or to guide her to do things within your frame.
Back to the left turn. Technically, the left turn goes like this: When you dance on the 1 right turns are signaled by the guy by the count of 3, and the girl preps for the turn on the 4 (that is if she knows how to prep) and you turn her on the 5; however, in a left turn you lead her to step forward on the 5 and you turn her left on the 6 mostly by guiding her with your right hand to her left hand and also with the weight flow of your body, you let her weight come forward and then go back and wham, left turn executed. Many of these leads are easier to show rather than to describe verbally, and there are likely other ways to accomplish a solid left turn lead. I use the count to illustrate that I tend to be somewhat of a stickler for timing and following a certain kind of form that I lead the girls into (if they don’t already share some of the abilities to follow my form).. But in the beginning you may NOT be able to achieve very good synchronizing with the music and making sure that the girl is synchronized with you. By the way, I do NOT synchronize with the girl, she synchronizes with me, and I have various techniques to attempt to assist the girl with her duties to synchronize with me. If she is reluctant to synchronize with me, then we don’t need to dance.. he hehe… .
Anyhow, if you were to use the left turn lead as a means of getting the girl to conform to you move, then you do need to lead the left turn properly and smoothly in order to really do well with it, and you should employ the move strategically. I know in the beginning you are merely trying to get through the whole song and you likely tend to think that all of your moves are repetitive (which they likely are).. but having a few moves in your repertoir that challenger her and causes her to pay attention and have to follow you tends to be good so long as you lead them well and with confidence and have fun with it.
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
Also, JayJuanGee, about the lessons, yes, I'm making progress but I can definitely tell that my female instructors are not communicating enough knowledge for me to become an aggressive, confident male lead. I've been studying the moves/steps of these more experienced guys at the dance events. Would private lessons with a male instructor help?
You may be able to advantage from private lessons, but, even though I teach private lessons, I do NOT necessarily recommend them, unless you have a specific particular thing(s) that you want to work on and that you need assistance with. Even though through private lessons, you could get a lot of focused attention for areas in which you can focus your improvement, more frequently, you can get a lot of similar feedback through group lessons and by concentrating on your own things that you are working on without spending a lot of money on private lessons.. and you can also get these ideas by making friends with some guys who will frequently share some of their ideas for free. And, ultimately, you have to tailor what you do in dance to your own style, and too much feedback from instructors need NOT be necessary for such needs for you to create and develop your own style and visions on how to carry them out. Many times, you can get the same kind of feedback in the group lessons, and some group lessons have only a few students, so you may get as much individualized attention as you want within the group lessons.
Even though I claim to have my own dance style, my style is very much by the book in a lot of ways, which is mostly LA style dancing on 1. Sometimes girls who dance only in LA ask me about my style and from where I learned… hehehehe… Usually, I laugh at such questions, and I will respond by saying that “I learned in and around LA,” unless I am just playing with them, then I will say “I learned it when I visited mars” or some other provocative comment.
Over the years (especially my first couple of years dancing), I took a lot of group lessons in a variety of venues, and many times, I have learned best through application and experimenting and practice. Accordingly, I would find girls who were willing to dance with me over and over and over while I practiced all my fairly rudimentary and evolving techniques. You do NOT need to find the cutest girls for practicing, and primarily it is good to find girls who are happy to follow any and all your leads (and I believe that it is even better if she has less self-confidence than you… he he he)
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
How would that work anyways since Salsa is strictly partner dancing??
If you do decide to go down the private salsa lessons path, then I would recommend that you bring a female partner with you. The private lesson is for you, but she is going to be there as the prop to help you to learn better. You may need to say something else in order to lure her to participate in this (and the instructor should NOT charge more for a couple than for an individual, especially if you tell him that you want the lesson to be focused on you and NOT the girl, she is just a prop). It is true that Guys can teach you without a girl present, but in the beginning, it may NOT sink in so well until you have executed the move(s) with a girl.. Even better if you were to bring two girls, one for the instructor and one for you. Then he can teach you much better while leading the other girl and showing you in slow motion then you and him just keep switching partners during the class.
Quote: (09-06-2014 07:13 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:
I think I could squeeze more than 1 night a week into my schedule soon, but I want to make the most of my time/money to get going with this swiftly.
Yep, it is good to add additional nights to your salsa practice (learning) in order to focus and to improve your dance by immersion… the more time you can dedicate for learning and practicing into your schedule, the better you will be able to begin to bring your salsa learning to new levels.. and to begin to exude higher levels of confidence.
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