Daygame is painful and can be soul destroying. Going by this thread the ROI is very, very low and probably not worth the effort unless I genuinely had the spare time. It requires a lot of confidence and I would only try it on the off chance I spotted someone I really liked. My successes have come from my own social circle and online apps.
Is daygame the worst way to meet women?
Nevermind... [removed a long stream of consciousness response]
Huge dichotomy on this thread between actual Meeting Women While Sun Is Out In Major City Like Men Have Done For Centuries and "Processed Daygame Product".
Big difference between "practicing approaches" (practicing dribbling in place)... and Meeting Women Organically Such That One Isn't Being "That Guy" (or robot).
30 seconds of seeing/talking to some of these posters would settle which side they are on.
Bottom-line: if the approach and opener were DROPPED IN YOUR LAP [i.e. they happened already, now you're sitting there with her on the park bench talking] -- and your "close rate" from there on is not healthy a double-digits %, then wildly approaching will have a shit ROI for sure.
Quality over Quantity in many areas.
Huge dichotomy on this thread between actual Meeting Women While Sun Is Out In Major City Like Men Have Done For Centuries and "Processed Daygame Product".
Big difference between "practicing approaches" (practicing dribbling in place)... and Meeting Women Organically Such That One Isn't Being "That Guy" (or robot).
30 seconds of seeing/talking to some of these posters would settle which side they are on.
Bottom-line: if the approach and opener were DROPPED IN YOUR LAP [i.e. they happened already, now you're sitting there with her on the park bench talking] -- and your "close rate" from there on is not healthy a double-digits %, then wildly approaching will have a shit ROI for sure.
Quality over Quantity in many areas.
I saw a YouTube semi-famous daygamer in Warsaw recently. He was walking in old town, hand-in-hand with a busted-faced lizard. She had a pretty good body, but tatted up like an underpass. She was about a 6 in a city pumped full of 8s and 9s. Make of that what you will.
Quote: (08-08-2018 04:38 PM)griffinmill Wrote:
I saw a YouTube semi-famous daygamer in Warsaw recently. He was walking in old town, hand-in-hand with a busted-faced lizard. She had a pretty good body, but tatted up like an underpass. She was about a 6 in a city pumped full of 8s and 9s. Make of that what you will.
Good for him. Leave the hotties for the rest of us.
I think there are completely different defintions of "day game".
On one hand, there's the "Do 100 approaches" types. I get pictures of Sub Saharan Africans approaching everyone on the street trying to sell them sunglasses. To me, thats the equivalent of cold calling some bullshit to people. Now yes, it may work for SOME people ie the "cheeky chappy" or loves the idea of the hunt to slam a few 6s. But it really wouldn't be my cup of tea.
On the other hand, there's going out at gaming without even looking like you are gaming. You need an environment for that, and some sort of aptitude. It can be far better than many nightclub environments. And far better than many online environments. Some guys who live in beach resorts are one example of that type of expert.
On one hand, there's the "Do 100 approaches" types. I get pictures of Sub Saharan Africans approaching everyone on the street trying to sell them sunglasses. To me, thats the equivalent of cold calling some bullshit to people. Now yes, it may work for SOME people ie the "cheeky chappy" or loves the idea of the hunt to slam a few 6s. But it really wouldn't be my cup of tea.
On the other hand, there's going out at gaming without even looking like you are gaming. You need an environment for that, and some sort of aptitude. It can be far better than many nightclub environments. And far better than many online environments. Some guys who live in beach resorts are one example of that type of expert.
For me the answer to the original question is: It depends on where I do it.
In the US, day game bangs are few and far between. My percentages are very low. I've got a few bangs over the years, including this year, in the US from day game but it's low return.
In South America and Mexico, the return is much much higher. I've had same day lays, or lays within the next day or two on the initial date. I'd say one out of 20 (or less) approaches results in a bang and more than that in dates which, if my stays had been longer, probably would have lead to more bangs.
In EE, I was able to generate more interest than in the US, though less than in central and South America. In Ukraine, for example, (and I was approaching top tier girls), the results were anywhere from harsh, rude blowouts to kind warm interest. I received more rude rejections in Ukraine than in the US for example but for a given number of approaches, I had a higher success rate in Ukraine.
It's all about value. I'm a tall, older, decent looking white guy with ok social skills. In the US, there's guys like me and/or younger hitting on these girls quite regular. So, I'm not exotic or "special" in the US.
In central and south america on the other hand, those women rarely get approached by guys like me, except maybe in night clubs in big tourist cities. But even then, it's less, so I'm more "special" there.
In EE, sure there's lots of tall white guys, but at least I have an American accent and am an American, which offers some uniqueness. So, for me, the 'exotic' factor and the different 'value' that brings in foreign countries has yielded much better results than in the west when it comes to daygame.
In the US, day game bangs are few and far between. My percentages are very low. I've got a few bangs over the years, including this year, in the US from day game but it's low return.
In South America and Mexico, the return is much much higher. I've had same day lays, or lays within the next day or two on the initial date. I'd say one out of 20 (or less) approaches results in a bang and more than that in dates which, if my stays had been longer, probably would have lead to more bangs.
In EE, I was able to generate more interest than in the US, though less than in central and South America. In Ukraine, for example, (and I was approaching top tier girls), the results were anywhere from harsh, rude blowouts to kind warm interest. I received more rude rejections in Ukraine than in the US for example but for a given number of approaches, I had a higher success rate in Ukraine.
It's all about value. I'm a tall, older, decent looking white guy with ok social skills. In the US, there's guys like me and/or younger hitting on these girls quite regular. So, I'm not exotic or "special" in the US.
In central and south america on the other hand, those women rarely get approached by guys like me, except maybe in night clubs in big tourist cities. But even then, it's less, so I'm more "special" there.
In EE, sure there's lots of tall white guys, but at least I have an American accent and am an American, which offers some uniqueness. So, for me, the 'exotic' factor and the different 'value' that brings in foreign countries has yielded much better results than in the west when it comes to daygame.
- One planet orbiting a star. Billions of stars in the galaxy. Billions of galaxies in the universe. Approach.
#BallsWin
Quote: (08-09-2018 06:46 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:
I think there are completely different defintions of "day game".
On one hand, there's the "Do 100 approaches" types. I get pictures of Sub Saharan Africans approaching everyone on the street trying to sell them sunglasses. To me, thats the equivalent of cold calling some bullshit to people. Now yes, it may work for SOME people ie the "cheeky chappy" or loves the idea of the hunt to slam a few 6s. But it really wouldn't be my cup of tea.
On the other hand, there's going out at gaming without even looking like you are gaming. You need an environment for that, and some sort of aptitude. It can be far better than many nightclub environments. And far better than many online environments. Some guys who live in beach resorts are one example of that type of expert.
You say that you think... I'll tell you that your thinking, unfortunately, is deeply flawed.
Krauser advocates this type of approach in his latest book. But before you get to this level of confidence that you can, so to speak, throttle your after burners, you'll have to do hundreds of disciplined "10 a day" approaches to know what works and what not. This needs painstaking, diligent, disciplined and throw-yourself-under-the-bus, hard and committed work. No exceptions. No one can run before they walk. Some guys, due to a plethora of variables, will need fewer approaches to progress, some more, but that "I'll just approach girls that I truly fancy, whilst doing my errands, after a stressful day at work", is pure fiction unless you have 500 (in a very optimistic scenario with a good looking, well-dressed, confident, intelligent, self-calibrating, and socially gifted man) or more approaches under the hood. No exceptions. Some guys are kidding themselves here that they can, without putting hours of drills, turn on daygame god mode and successfully approach a girl that they saw queue up at a counter to get her semi-skilled soy grande latte in a bright-lit, busy and loud café. If you haven't tried it a number of times, you'll get paralysed. Let's imagine this scenario that you see a girl you genuinely fancy at a café, in a queue, with a few people ahead of her. Things to consider pre-approach:
What's the location of the café an what type of clientele frequents it?
What's her body language telling me, her clothes, is she making contact with some customers, is she local or not?
Do I approach her immediately or after she got her latte?
What if other people can hear or it's too loud, do I care?
What if the person who's taking order butts in to take her order after I open?
Is she sitting in or orders take away?
Is she by herself or her boyfriend is sitting nearby?
Do I go and wait outside and approach only then?
Do I get in queue and order as well and chat her up in a queue or come over to her table and sit down with here for a few minutes?
If she has a bag does it indicate she's got books, laptop and will be doing some work, therefore she's definitely sitting in?
But what if she's just finished her classes and orders take away on her way back home?
How do I actually open?
And so on. Questions like that (and they just scratch the surface) semi-consciously speedrocket through my mind and half the time I have answers based on the past experience of this particular scenario. But if you haven't made drills and approached religiously in the past, you're toasted. It's akin to a boxer who gets into the ring to face off opponents when big money is at stake, yet instead of doing daily sparring, exercises, drills, rope work and what have you, sits on a coach munching Dorritos and sippin' Coca Cola Light whilst watching TV and becoming an armchair pro yelling what the boxer should have done.
I'm pretty sure that's how guys writing here imagine it "should" work, without actually trying - executing a good to excellent "on the fly" without any preparation, state building approaches is a very advanced level where emotional control and decision making have been mastered and wired into the brain through hundreds upon hundreds of approaches.
there is no short cut, stop bullshitting yourself and others.
____________________
My Adventures in Game updates on the go: twits by Max Detrick
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
I don’t ever give up. I mean, I’d have to be dead or completely incapacitated.
-- Elon Musk
None of those Q’s matter: improvise.
Grace under pressure is hot to women.
And yes, I had done many approaches in my life before being able to snipe out a spontaneous “natural” approach successfully. No need to get in state anymore really.
Grace under pressure is hot to women.
And yes, I had done many approaches in my life before being able to snipe out a spontaneous “natural” approach successfully. No need to get in state anymore really.
I now approach as I go as the type of woman I am most interested in naturally appear.
Besides disinterest on her part there are issues such as not getting her details in time as her bus arrives and the queue isn't long enough or she misses the bus.
Besides disinterest on her part there are issues such as not getting her details in time as her bus arrives and the queue isn't long enough or she misses the bus.
Can some experienced guys give their opinion on Anthony Hustle please?
His infields seem to be less "gamey" and more normal chit chat. But does he have good game or is he relying on looks?
Should an average looking guy seek to imitate him?
A couple of his infields:
His infields seem to be less "gamey" and more normal chit chat. But does he have good game or is he relying on looks?
Should an average looking guy seek to imitate him?
A couple of his infields:
To the people that successfully daygame, what is your motivation? I tried it recently hanging out in a coffee place, I saw what looked to be about 4 women worth approaching (and I did). The results were middling, as expected of my first time trying this. Noncommittal grunts and general disinterest in even random conversation. I have a lot of trouble generating any desire to have conversations with women that are by and large, uninteresting. Is it just something you struggle through to get laid or are there those of you that enjoy it as an activity?
Quote: (08-17-2018 11:50 AM)Professor When Wrote:
To the people that successfully daygame, what is your motivation? I tried it recently hanging out in a coffee place, I saw what looked to be about 4 women worth approaching (and I did). The results were middling, as expected of my first time trying this. Noncommittal grunts and general disinterest in even random conversation. I have a lot of trouble generating any desire to have conversations with women that are by and large, uninteresting. Is it just something you struggle through to get laid or are there those of you that enjoy it as an activity?
I started being more active in daygame recently and I realized that I simply like it. I enjoy the process. It's exciting, it raises your adrenaline a tad and I find myself wondering how the girl will react and how I will "perform". I love the fact that you can improvise, be humorous and create a connection out of nowhere. Plus that you can approach the most attractive girls that would be surrounded by their friends or guys at a bar/club setting without having to put up with so many obstacles. It's almost like a hobby. I see it as a great skill overall, regardless of whether or not you will get something out of it.
And to clarify, I do not have extraordinary results or anything close to that.
If it won't matter in 30 years, it doesn't matter now.
My thoughts and memoirs: yourfriendtrent.wordpress.com
I hate online, and I don't like dating within social circles.
So if I'm single and open to meeting someone, I turn on that "mode" and make sure I'm out and about.
I'll also - and this is crucial - do NIGHTTIME sidewalk game (with some light non-club venue game).
It's not as fast as online, but I can easily build a modest pipeline, get a fuck, get a girlfriend if I want, etc.
And while the pipeline isn't as full, it's all filled with MUCH HIGHER QUALITY LEADS because I've already done the hardest part -- vibing with them face to face.
Again, thanks to NYC and thanks to years of figuring out women before hand (and already stumbling through approaches not through any program but through my own curiosity and drive back in my early 20s).
So if I'm single and open to meeting someone, I turn on that "mode" and make sure I'm out and about.
I'll also - and this is crucial - do NIGHTTIME sidewalk game (with some light non-club venue game).
It's not as fast as online, but I can easily build a modest pipeline, get a fuck, get a girlfriend if I want, etc.
And while the pipeline isn't as full, it's all filled with MUCH HIGHER QUALITY LEADS because I've already done the hardest part -- vibing with them face to face.
Again, thanks to NYC and thanks to years of figuring out women before hand (and already stumbling through approaches not through any program but through my own curiosity and drive back in my early 20s).
Quote: (08-17-2018 01:17 PM)456 Wrote:This is difficult for me. I'm still a fatass, so I really need to work on learning how to build comfort. At least until I finish my weight loss. When I first started trying game, I came on way too strong. I have no shame, so the overt flirting and jerkboy game wasn't a stretch for me, but I just get no receptivity from women that way.
I'll also - and this is crucial - do NIGHTTIME sidewalk game (with some light non-club venue game).
Quote: (08-17-2018 12:32 PM)Trent W. Wrote:
Quote: (08-17-2018 11:50 AM)Professor When Wrote:
To the people that successfully daygame, what is your motivation? I tried it recently hanging out in a coffee place, I saw what looked to be about 4 women worth approaching (and I did). The results were middling, as expected of my first time trying this. Noncommittal grunts and general disinterest in even random conversation. I have a lot of trouble generating any desire to have conversations with women that are by and large, uninteresting. Is it just something you struggle through to get laid or are there those of you that enjoy it as an activity?
I started being more active in daygame recently and I realized that I simply like it. I enjoy the process. It's exciting, it raises your adrenaline a tad and I find myself wondering how the girl will react and how I will "perform". I love the fact that you can improvise, be humorous and create a connection out of nowhere. Plus that you can approach the most attractive girls that would be surrounded by their friends or guys at a bar/club setting without having to put up with so many obstacles. It's almost like a hobby. I see it as a great skill overall, regardless of whether or not you will get something out of it.
And to clarify, I do not have extraordinary results or anything close to that.
Maybe if I start seeing some success I'll begin to enjoy it. Tell me, do you enjoy your conversations with women for the content or for the challenge of successfully manipulating her?
EDIT: I don't mean "manipulating" as a derogatory thing, by the way. I'm just wondering if you'd be happy talking to them the way you do were they men, instead. I want to see these girls as people, but I can't help but seeing them as an obstacle to me. I mostly want to try getting laid, but I can't find that motivation.
@PW - from your other thread, you probably will see gradually more success as you keep losing the weight and grow into your already-social self.
Regarding also feeling the same spark of chit chatting with guys, I do in some ways, which I think helps in the long run.
For example, I hadn't noticed a whole escalator/feature had been removed and covered up permanently, in a nearby subway station. When I realized this, I started laughing out loud to my self and said to whoever was around (some day laborer type guy, and some other rando) "what the hell? wasn't there a thing right there???" -- these guys were NOT expecting the be spoken to, and were about to ignore me, but I stayed happy and was like "I don't take the train for a few days and they take this out! Or I'm going crazy" and the smiles crack and both of the guys responded back even though they were clearly commuting.
I was on an elevator and tried to keep on my phone call -- thinking I had a few floors to go until service cut out. But instead, the service cut out the second the doors closed. Hot little asian with ass-cheek-peek shorts and sexy makeup was on the elevator with me. I looked at her and said "wtf? I thought it was the height that cut off phone calls, not just those doors!" with a dramatic sigh and SMH. She laughed and started making smalltalk with me about her day -- I could have kept it going, but genuinely didn't care and wanted to get to my destination and get the phone call started back up.
But the point is, by normalizing this kind of fun, innocent interaction, with everyone, then it's brainless to create one with a hottie and, should you decide, actually go forth with flirting / trying to pick her up. By this point you've already shared a "non-creepy" moment of smiling and laughter and comfort, while perhaps building subconscious attraction that you are so unphased by her beauty that you're giving her the same schtick you'd have given an old man in the same situ.
[As usual have to give credit to @WIA for the frame that I'm bringing out the "real girl" behind the facade of "elevator chick trying not to be bothered" or "shop girl" or whatever. Piercing her bubble as it were, in a way that takes her out of everyday defensiveness.]
Now of course, once "it's on", I'll either do the direct-body-language + indirect verbals, or go with subtly direct verbals. Season to taste.
This is the kind of stuff you "practice" by incorporating into your life over years, and it becomes a nicely sharpened tool in the toolbox for the rest of your life.
This is not the "I need to get laid by end of week" repetitive action "program" of "practice".
(Ironically, by NOT using this kind of action as a plan/practice/spam thing, you are quite more likely to get an unexpectedly fast or easy date/lay/what have you, than if you are using this as a way to learn game in the first place or work out your insecurities.)
Regarding also feeling the same spark of chit chatting with guys, I do in some ways, which I think helps in the long run.
For example, I hadn't noticed a whole escalator/feature had been removed and covered up permanently, in a nearby subway station. When I realized this, I started laughing out loud to my self and said to whoever was around (some day laborer type guy, and some other rando) "what the hell? wasn't there a thing right there???" -- these guys were NOT expecting the be spoken to, and were about to ignore me, but I stayed happy and was like "I don't take the train for a few days and they take this out! Or I'm going crazy" and the smiles crack and both of the guys responded back even though they were clearly commuting.
I was on an elevator and tried to keep on my phone call -- thinking I had a few floors to go until service cut out. But instead, the service cut out the second the doors closed. Hot little asian with ass-cheek-peek shorts and sexy makeup was on the elevator with me. I looked at her and said "wtf? I thought it was the height that cut off phone calls, not just those doors!" with a dramatic sigh and SMH. She laughed and started making smalltalk with me about her day -- I could have kept it going, but genuinely didn't care and wanted to get to my destination and get the phone call started back up.
But the point is, by normalizing this kind of fun, innocent interaction, with everyone, then it's brainless to create one with a hottie and, should you decide, actually go forth with flirting / trying to pick her up. By this point you've already shared a "non-creepy" moment of smiling and laughter and comfort, while perhaps building subconscious attraction that you are so unphased by her beauty that you're giving her the same schtick you'd have given an old man in the same situ.
[As usual have to give credit to @WIA for the frame that I'm bringing out the "real girl" behind the facade of "elevator chick trying not to be bothered" or "shop girl" or whatever. Piercing her bubble as it were, in a way that takes her out of everyday defensiveness.]
Now of course, once "it's on", I'll either do the direct-body-language + indirect verbals, or go with subtly direct verbals. Season to taste.
This is the kind of stuff you "practice" by incorporating into your life over years, and it becomes a nicely sharpened tool in the toolbox for the rest of your life.
This is not the "I need to get laid by end of week" repetitive action "program" of "practice".
(Ironically, by NOT using this kind of action as a plan/practice/spam thing, you are quite more likely to get an unexpectedly fast or easy date/lay/what have you, than if you are using this as a way to learn game in the first place or work out your insecurities.)
Daygame is a simple and brutally honest metric by which to judge your overall game presentation (a combination of your appearance, vibe, body language, charisma, conversational skills, boldness and general game knowledge). If you've got most or all of those bases covered, not only should you have very little anxiety when approaching during the day, but you should be having a good bit of success as well. When I read about guys making hundreds of daygame approaches and hardly getting any numbers or dates it's obvious they're seriously lacking in one or more of those basic presentation issues. Daygame is not rocket science. If you're successfully presenting yourself as a high value man, the girl you're talking to is much more likely to be receptive. If you're having very little success with daygame it's because you're presenting an image that these women don't find attractive. And that's most likely a combination of a poor/non-optimized appearance and an awkward vibe/body language. That being the case, if you're a guy who's done hundreds of daygame approaches and have nothing to show for it, the answer is not to spam more daygame approaches. It's to address the issues with your appearance and the awkward vibe you're putting out.
At the end of the day, I don't think daygame is something that should be spammed anyway. Traditional night game, night street game, festivals/special events, even online are all more conducive to spam approaching to build confidence and skill when interacting with women. Using daygame as your primary method of meeting women is not likely to work well for newbies. It's a more advanced tactic that requires you to have already done a lot of work on your game presentation, appearance and vibe. Daygame is something an experienced guy should have in his back pocket. It's like a concealed carry firearm that you've got with you all the time. You bust it out without hesitation when the situation arises calling for its use. It's more about cultivating the mindset that you are always ready to approach an attractive woman given the opportunity, without hesitation or fear, and that you are confident in your ability to have success doing so on a regular basis. If your game is not already on a sufficiently high enough level, you simply won't have the confidence to believe that, and that will come across in your vibe/body language when talking to the girl.
At the end of the day, I don't think daygame is something that should be spammed anyway. Traditional night game, night street game, festivals/special events, even online are all more conducive to spam approaching to build confidence and skill when interacting with women. Using daygame as your primary method of meeting women is not likely to work well for newbies. It's a more advanced tactic that requires you to have already done a lot of work on your game presentation, appearance and vibe. Daygame is something an experienced guy should have in his back pocket. It's like a concealed carry firearm that you've got with you all the time. You bust it out without hesitation when the situation arises calling for its use. It's more about cultivating the mindset that you are always ready to approach an attractive woman given the opportunity, without hesitation or fear, and that you are confident in your ability to have success doing so on a regular basis. If your game is not already on a sufficiently high enough level, you simply won't have the confidence to believe that, and that will come across in your vibe/body language when talking to the girl.
[size=8pt]"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”[/size] [size=7pt] - Romans 8:18[/size]
Quote: (08-18-2018 12:22 AM)Professor When Wrote:
Maybe if I start seeing some success I'll begin to enjoy it. Tell me, do you enjoy your conversations with women for the content or for the challenge of successfully manipulating her?
EDIT: I don't mean "manipulating" as a derogatory thing, by the way. I'm just wondering if you'd be happy talking to them the way you do were they men, instead. I want to see these girls as people, but I can't help but seeing them as an obstacle to me. I mostly want to try getting laid, but I can't find that motivation.
Yes, you will be more motivated once you start seeing more success. You simply have to grind it out until that happens. It's the same with anything you do in life, you feel more motivated when you see results.
You pose a good question though, I haven't thought of it earlier. I don't speak to random people on the street with no reason or context. Talking to a guy is a completely different scenario, there is no end goal there.
This is it, one of two things may happen to you: Either you will stop trying to daygame for a while, or for ever, and find alternatives. Or you will keep at it and your feelings towards the process itself and the girls you talk to is going to change in accordance to your level of skill, results and general understanding of it.
Quote: (08-18-2018 09:52 AM)456 Wrote:
@PW - from your other thread, you probably will see gradually more success as you keep losing the weight and grow into your already-social self.
Regarding also feeling the same spark of chit chatting with guys, I do in some ways, which I think helps in the long run.
For example, I hadn't noticed a whole escalator/feature had been removed and covered up permanently, in a nearby subway station. When I realized this, I started laughing out loud to my self and said to whoever was around (some day laborer type guy, and some other rando) "what the hell? wasn't there a thing right there???" -- these guys were NOT expecting the be spoken to, and were about to ignore me, but I stayed happy and was like "I don't take the train for a few days and they take this out! Or I'm going crazy" and the smiles crack and both of the guys responded back even though they were clearly commuting.
I was on an elevator and tried to keep on my phone call -- thinking I had a few floors to go until service cut out. But instead, the service cut out the second the doors closed. Hot little asian with ass-cheek-peek shorts and sexy makeup was on the elevator with me. I looked at her and said "wtf? I thought it was the height that cut off phone calls, not just those doors!" with a dramatic sigh and SMH. She laughed and started making smalltalk with me about her day -- I could have kept it going, but genuinely didn't care and wanted to get to my destination and get the phone call started back up.
But the point is, by normalizing this kind of fun, innocent interaction, with everyone, then it's brainless to create one with a hottie and, should you decide, actually go forth with flirting / trying to pick her up. By this point you've already shared a "non-creepy" moment of smiling and laughter and comfort, while perhaps building subconscious attraction that you are so unphased by her beauty that you're giving her the same schtick you'd have given an old man in the same situ.
[As usual have to give credit to @WIA for the frame that I'm bringing out the "real girl" behind the facade of "elevator chick trying not to be bothered" or "shop girl" or whatever. Piercing her bubble as it were, in a way that takes her out of everyday defensiveness.]
Now of course, once "it's on", I'll either do the direct-body-language + indirect verbals, or go with subtly direct verbals. Season to taste.
This is the kind of stuff you "practice" by incorporating into your life over years, and it becomes a nicely sharpened tool in the toolbox for the rest of your life.
This is not the "I need to get laid by end of week" repetitive action "program" of "practice".
(Ironically, by NOT using this kind of action as a plan/practice/spam thing, you are quite more likely to get an unexpectedly fast or easy date/lay/what have you, than if you are using this as a way to learn game in the first place or work out your insecurities.)
Great input. I think it can be summed up to being outcome independent + self amusement.
As for the spam approaching, it's not my style either. However it has its merit. Spam approaching helps you get in this talkative state and be quick on your toes, plus removes the AA. However it can lead to one of the most detrimental things to your game and that's player burnout. Lots of approaches in short time and having to deal with all the bs you inevitably get from girls (like flakes, ghosting etc) may create resentment and you don't want that. But that's a problem for intermediate/advanced guys I think, newbies should be happy to get to that level.
Quote: (08-18-2018 03:00 PM)scorpion Wrote:
Daygame is a simple and brutally honest metric by which to judge your overall game presentation (a combination of your appearance, vibe, body language, charisma, conversational skills, boldness and general game knowledge). If you've got most or all of those bases covered, not only should you have very little anxiety when approaching during the day, but you should be having a good bit of success as well. When I read about guys making hundreds of daygame approaches and hardly getting any numbers or dates it's obvious they're seriously lacking in one or more of those basic presentation issues. Daygame is not rocket science. If you're successfully presenting yourself as a high value man, the girl you're talking to is much more likely to be receptive. If you're having very little success with daygame it's because you're presenting an image that these women don't find attractive. And that's most likely a combination of a poor/non-optimized appearance and an awkward vibe/body language. That being the case, if you're a guy who's done hundreds of daygame approaches and have nothing to show for it, the answer is not to spam more daygame approaches. It's to address the issues with your appearance and the awkward vibe you're putting out.
At the end of the day, I don't think daygame is something that should be spammed anyway. Traditional night game, night street game, festivals/special events, even online are all more conducive to spam approaching to build confidence and skill when interacting with women. Using daygame as your primary method of meeting women is not likely to work well for newbies. It's a more advanced tactic that requires you to have already done a lot of work on your game presentation, appearance and vibe. Daygame is something an experienced guy should have in his back pocket. It's like a concealed carry firearm that you've got with you all the time. You bust it out without hesitation when the situation arises calling for its use. It's more about cultivating the mindset that you are always ready to approach an attractive woman given the opportunity, without hesitation or fear, and that you are confident in your ability to have success doing so on a regular basis. If your game is not already on a sufficiently high enough level, you simply won't have the confidence to believe that, and that will come across in your vibe/body language when talking to the girl.
I've seen that recommendation to work on your NG first before getting into DG for good. It's definitely easier if you're a beginner. The problem is that some people may never feel ready or good enough. I'd say work on your NG and at the same time start doing easy DG approaches like stationary girls, parks, daytime events etc.
100% agree that DG is a harsh metric on your overall presentation level. I may make a post at some point with some realizations and tips from my experience on this.
If it won't matter in 30 years, it doesn't matter now.
My thoughts and memoirs: yourfriendtrent.wordpress.com
I always felt like getting good at online dating was a good precursor to day game because if you can get laid on tinder regularly then it is a good indicator your looks are good enough at least. All the other stuff maybe not. As for night-game, it definitely reduces a lot of the approach anxiety if you've been doing it for a long time. On the other hand if you are sick of dealing with vicious cunts at clubs who have no idea how to reject a man respectfully, I think you can forgo having to brutalise yourself with night-game before giving daygame a stab.
Quote: (08-16-2018 02:04 PM)pelicanto8888 Wrote:
Can some experienced guys give their opinion on Anthony Hustle please?
His infields seem to be less "gamey" and more normal chit chat. But does he have good game or is he relying on looks?
Should an average looking guy seek to imitate him?
A couple of his infields:
I've been watching his infields recently.
It does sound like he's a good looking dude based on what Tom Torerro said about him in an old podcast, plus Anthony himself said that he's good looking. I dunno. He seems to get AMAZING results though, and basically gets laid at will with hot girls. Like within 2 or 3 approaches, he's banging some 8 or 9 lol. Must be nice!
As I feel is often the case, I think he gets girls in spite of his game as opposed to because of it. He doesn't get 'attraction' from his cold reads (as he says he does) but from then thinking he's handsome, at a guess
Quote: (08-08-2018 04:38 PM)griffinmill Wrote:
I saw a YouTube semi-famous daygamer in Warsaw recently. He was walking in old town, hand-in-hand with a busted-faced lizard. She had a pretty good body, but tatted up like an underpass. She was about a 6 in a city pumped full of 8s and 9s. Make of that what you will.
YouTube actually destroyed a lot of the PUA image I feel. There'll never be another myth like Neil Strauss.
Actually the daygamers on YouTube are kind of boring to watch: either they're opening up with a "do you know where the pet store is?" (lol) or just making mundane small talk with chicks. And these guys pump out the videos all the time because men are paying them money for dating seminars and advice. And yet they provide very little proof of actually taking these women home and smashing them. The rare clip of them making out with a chick isn't proof of a lay.
The most infamous one is David Bond but the dude practically has a prostitute girlfriend because he bought her breast implants and buys her 5 star hotel rooms in Asia. And in Asia the only game you arguably need is "just be white" (there's fat bald obese 75 year old sexpats with hot Asian girlfriends in their 20s).
David Bond actually did a video of his finances and he's spending a crazy amount of money in a region where spending $18,000 means you live like a King. So I wonder what the huge discrepancy is (probably is giving money to women or treating them to a lot of freebies but that's disappointing if that's the case).
[My emphases added:]
@scorpion's post here is /thread -- VIDEOS can NEVER show you what is being described here.
If a guy has awkward vibes, not only won't he fully experience / perceive what is happening in the video, but he Won't Know What He's Not being exposed to.
It's even more of a porn-ification of reality than some porn is.
---
Think about those different "metrics" of static value scorpion described in the first paragraph.
A guy could be decent on a few of them, great at one or two of them, and maybe have one mediocre.
He should still target practice with his figurative concealed carry, but don't go looking for trouble around every corner, flashing the weapon, overusing it, firing into the woods to impress your boys.
So maybe you can't lean on it...
I think someone doing 100 - 200 SOLID, inspired, personal-8+ target approaches PER YEAR while heeding other areas of life, could make impressive improvement in cold approach. In other words, high-ROIC approaches versus low ones. If approaches aren't high-return, then increase their quality not quantity.
Your real, best approaches will never look and feel like these videos, not even close.
If you can't create a fun, in-the-moment vibe with guys, you can't do it with strange women. Go on more online dates if you don't know how to vibe with a girl, cut the approach part out of the mix to focus on that first. Or maybe be more entertaining when hanging out with your guy friends, learn to cultivate fun from nothing.
Using the public environment just to learn how to be non-awkward is like learning shooting with an Uzi first. Though maybe in limited limited doses it can help.
-
Can you get people out of their shells and into your reality, even for a few fun minutes, in non-babe situations? A cold bus stop late at night with a few random workers? Standing online at a ride somewhere with a few guy friends? Best friends? Are you adding / contributing, or just riding along as someone else cracks the jokes or sets the tone?
If not, then it's not an issue of #approaches practice, it's an issue of improving yourself (and thus, each approach's "return"!!!).
In business, you want growth, and return on invested capital. So think about a player's growth needs, versus his "return on invested approach":
If you have [read: NEED] high growth, but have poor return on investments, you get stuck in a hole.
If you have great return on investment, you can do well with either high growth [notch count] or low growth [quality relationship(s)] strategies.
Doing "mad approaches" with bad results, it's not a numbers game if the prize isn't funded. Buying more ovens and expanding a pizzeria where they make .01% margin on sales will just destroy or at best keep value neutral (debt or break even).
But the food truck with a 40% margin on sales can expand and create new value profitably, or he could stay low growth but do well on one location if he chooses. Either way his high ROIC serves his current needs.
When you know your approaches LAND and you make MEANINGFUL connections, even if they are fleeting [i.e. outcome independence, not exchanging personal details until after the bubble has been entered], then you have a high ROIC and can choose your own level of chase, quality/quantity, player vs fruitful or explorative monogomy, etc.
-
Videos emphasize all the wrong things, "boldness-to-onlooker", "connection-to-shit-guy-wrote-about-already", "decisive stops and opens", because wouldn't any content creator do that? For commercial and entertainment reasons?
Real life only matters how you and her feel, and your relation to the environment you're in -- respect it, work off of it, work against it, but heed it. Videos draw attention away from these real things and towards the more arbitrary things that are moot to a new guy.
(Also a guy must have other shit going on -- if you need to get good at date / closing / face time, then do some online shit maybe. If you are broke, be upping skills and opportunities. Etc.)
Quote: (08-18-2018 03:00 PM)scorpion Wrote:
Daygame is a simple and brutally honest metric by which to judge your overall game presentation (a combination of your appearance, vibe, body language, charisma, conversational skills, boldness and general game knowledge). If you've got most or all of those bases covered, not only should you have very little anxiety when approaching during the day, but you should be having a good bit of success as well. When I read about guys making hundreds of daygame approaches and hardly getting any numbers or dates it's obvious they're seriously lacking in one or more of those basic presentation issues. Daygame is not rocket science. If you're successfully presenting yourself as a high value man, the girl you're talking to is much more likely to be receptive. If you're having very little success with daygame it's because you're presenting an image that these women don't find attractive. And that's most likely a combination of a poor/non-optimized appearance and an awkward vibe/body language. That being the case, if you're a guy who's done hundreds of daygame approaches and have nothing to show for it, the answer is not to spam more daygame approaches. It's to address the issues with your appearance and the awkward vibe you're putting out.
At the end of the day, I don't think daygame is something that should be spammed anyway. Traditional night game, night street game, festivals/special events, even online are all more conducive to spam approaching to build confidence and skill when interacting with women. Using daygame as your primary method of meeting women is not likely to work well for newbies. It's a more advanced tactic that requires you to have already done a lot of work on your game presentation, appearance and vibe. Daygame is something an experienced guy should have in his back pocket. It's like a concealed carry firearm that you've got with you all the time. You bust it out without hesitation when the situation arises calling for its use. It's more about cultivating the mindset that you are always ready to approach an attractive woman given the opportunity, without hesitation or fear, and that you are confident in your ability to have success doing so on a regular basis. If your game is not already on a sufficiently high enough level, you simply won't have the confidence to believe that, and that will come across in your vibe/body language when talking to the girl.
@scorpion's post here is /thread -- VIDEOS can NEVER show you what is being described here.
If a guy has awkward vibes, not only won't he fully experience / perceive what is happening in the video, but he Won't Know What He's Not being exposed to.
It's even more of a porn-ification of reality than some porn is.
---
Think about those different "metrics" of static value scorpion described in the first paragraph.
A guy could be decent on a few of them, great at one or two of them, and maybe have one mediocre.
He should still target practice with his figurative concealed carry, but don't go looking for trouble around every corner, flashing the weapon, overusing it, firing into the woods to impress your boys.
So maybe you can't lean on it...
I think someone doing 100 - 200 SOLID, inspired, personal-8+ target approaches PER YEAR while heeding other areas of life, could make impressive improvement in cold approach. In other words, high-ROIC approaches versus low ones. If approaches aren't high-return, then increase their quality not quantity.
Your real, best approaches will never look and feel like these videos, not even close.
If you can't create a fun, in-the-moment vibe with guys, you can't do it with strange women. Go on more online dates if you don't know how to vibe with a girl, cut the approach part out of the mix to focus on that first. Or maybe be more entertaining when hanging out with your guy friends, learn to cultivate fun from nothing.
Using the public environment just to learn how to be non-awkward is like learning shooting with an Uzi first. Though maybe in limited limited doses it can help.
-
Can you get people out of their shells and into your reality, even for a few fun minutes, in non-babe situations? A cold bus stop late at night with a few random workers? Standing online at a ride somewhere with a few guy friends? Best friends? Are you adding / contributing, or just riding along as someone else cracks the jokes or sets the tone?
If not, then it's not an issue of #approaches practice, it's an issue of improving yourself (and thus, each approach's "return"!!!).
In business, you want growth, and return on invested capital. So think about a player's growth needs, versus his "return on invested approach":
If you have [read: NEED] high growth, but have poor return on investments, you get stuck in a hole.
If you have great return on investment, you can do well with either high growth [notch count] or low growth [quality relationship(s)] strategies.
Doing "mad approaches" with bad results, it's not a numbers game if the prize isn't funded. Buying more ovens and expanding a pizzeria where they make .01% margin on sales will just destroy or at best keep value neutral (debt or break even).
But the food truck with a 40% margin on sales can expand and create new value profitably, or he could stay low growth but do well on one location if he chooses. Either way his high ROIC serves his current needs.
When you know your approaches LAND and you make MEANINGFUL connections, even if they are fleeting [i.e. outcome independence, not exchanging personal details until after the bubble has been entered], then you have a high ROIC and can choose your own level of chase, quality/quantity, player vs fruitful or explorative monogomy, etc.
-
Videos emphasize all the wrong things, "boldness-to-onlooker", "connection-to-shit-guy-wrote-about-already", "decisive stops and opens", because wouldn't any content creator do that? For commercial and entertainment reasons?
Real life only matters how you and her feel, and your relation to the environment you're in -- respect it, work off of it, work against it, but heed it. Videos draw attention away from these real things and towards the more arbitrary things that are moot to a new guy.
(Also a guy must have other shit going on -- if you need to get good at date / closing / face time, then do some online shit maybe. If you are broke, be upping skills and opportunities. Etc.)
Quote: (08-17-2018 12:32 PM)Trent W. Wrote:
I started being more active in daygame recently and I realized that I simply like it. I enjoy the process. It's exciting, it raises your adrenaline a tad and I find myself wondering how the girl will react and how I will "perform". I love the fact that you can improvise, be humorous and create a connection out of nowhere. Plus that you can approach the most attractive girls that would be surrounded by their friends or guys at a bar/club setting without having to put up with so many obstacles. It's almost like a hobby. I see it as a great skill overall, regardless of whether or not you will get something out of it.
This is exactly how I see daygame.
Since nightgame died in my city, it's been a necessity to go for either online or daygame.
Online = fatties and fuglies. No thanks.
Whereas during the day I can talk to any girl I see on the street or at the mall, we can have an entertaining conversation and I can see what she looks like for real (without the filters that girls use on tinder etc.)
With a bit of work I've got my hit rate at about 5%. But a lot of those conversations are really enjoyable, even the ones that don't result in the lay.
I started daygame hardcore in 2011. I think I was a bit more oblivious to girls reactions so I would plow more and be aggressive. It worked better now that i'm more socially sensitive. It also could be the girls are less receptive in person though.
If a girl is giving seemingly negative body language on the open eject or is this easily changeable? I don't really want to bother anyone so I just eject fast most of the time now (had some bad experience that made me more likely to do this).
For example I wave hey how is it going and they 'avert gaze trying to act like they didn't see me/look at phone/try to deke me out'. Those are basically rejections right?
I feel like I get so many of these compared to 6 years ago. Maybe it's a combo of me getting older (28) and daygaming girls 18-22 so I'm uglier + rise of instagram/dating apps so less receptive as well.
If a girl is giving seemingly negative body language on the open eject or is this easily changeable? I don't really want to bother anyone so I just eject fast most of the time now (had some bad experience that made me more likely to do this).
For example I wave hey how is it going and they 'avert gaze trying to act like they didn't see me/look at phone/try to deke me out'. Those are basically rejections right?
I feel like I get so many of these compared to 6 years ago. Maybe it's a combo of me getting older (28) and daygaming girls 18-22 so I'm uglier + rise of instagram/dating apps so less receptive as well.
^^^ sometimes a girl looks unhappy but changes her mind. For example if I approach a tourist in English she might look away in disgust, but when I switch to her native language she smiles and answers. Usually I guess her language or I try several languages.
Btw I’m 50 and I daygame 18-24 so don’t worry about age lol.
Btw I’m 50 and I daygame 18-24 so don’t worry about age lol.
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