[jackkincaid]

OK, here's the scenario.

I met up with this girl I used to know back in college, to catch up and have drinks. It was not set up as a date from her point of view, in fact just a few weeks ago she saw me taking a cute girl on a date.

So we met up in a bar, had some drinks, talked, I didn't really "game" her, I only did basic stuff like kino, good listening, letting her talk, and DHV in the form of letting her know I just got laid with the previous cute girl, but was choosy enough to break it off with her.

As the night wore on, we went to a different bar, she started actually doing kino on me (letting our arms touch, leaning in and putting both hands on my arm), and I pretty much still only did basic game. I made a point of breaking off kino (especially when she initiated it) after a few seconds, and we had good, continuous, non-stop conversation.

Finally we go to a third bar, it's really late now, there's live music, and I don't remember exactly what transpired but I teased her about her growly smoker's voice (not how she sounded back in the day), and somehow she asked me to feel her abs, which were pretty hardcore. I did so and she whispered "you're trouble" in my ear with a grin. If it helps, she's an HB 7, in great shape and possible LTR material despite the growly voice (she quit smoking last year). Probably would be HB 8 if she had bigger boobs, she's got a great ass for a white chick.

So I'm thinking this is pretty hard to fuck up, I was not angling to sleep with her that night since she had just come back from a really long out-of-state trip that afternoon, and she was quite tired.

On the walk to her car, I had my arm around her waist, and she said "let's do this instead" and took my hand instead, interlocking our fingers. We kissed en route to her car, she drove me to my car, we made out some more then I went home.

Later that night she texted to see if i drove home OK, and I just said I was fine, and wanted to hang out with her closer to my house (we live about 50 minutes away).

SO... I think I'm in a great spot but I want to make sure I don't fuck this up somehow by being myself. She actually works a hospital night shift near my house, so I'm thinking the next step is to say "come over to my place after work" except she leaves work at 3 am.

Should I text to say "come over" at 3 am? Or try to set up a dinner date at my house where I can cook and it's a day off for her?

What should I NOT do that could fuck up all my good work so far?

[AntiTrace]

The fish is on the hook, you just gotta reel it in.

She's used to working nights, so she isn't going to stay on that sleep cycle even on days off.

Find out what day she has off, invite her out for drinks that night.

Use Tuth's first date bang recipe: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-8681.html

[jackkincaid]

(07-22-2014 12:29 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

The fish is on the hook, you just gotta reel it in.

She's used to working nights, so she isn't going to stay on that sleep cycle even on days off.

Find out what day she has off, invite her out for drinks that night.

Use Tuth's first date bang recipe: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-8681.html

Well, we live 50-60 minutes apart, so inviting her over to my area for drinks pretty much says "we're gonna bang later."

Especially on a day off when she has no reason to be in the area. At least if it's a work day she'll be in the area anyway.

I can see if I said "come over for drinks on your day off" she might throw a shit test or object to driving the same distance she would on a work day. PLUS if she does come, spend the night, has to work the next day, she's already in the work area so it's like she's committing to a daytime date with me too, since she has to kill time from waking up to 4pm.

Or do you think I have enough leverage here that she'd be OK doing that and tacitly understanding she's in for sex and spending the night?

After all, she required very little game, reciprocated often, and even paid for all of her own drinks.

[AntiTrace]

Theres only one way to find out...

Do it and see what she says. If she agrees then you already understand the implications of that. It gives her plausible deniability. She "gotta a little too drunk and didn't wanna drive" so she goes to your place "just for a bit to sober up" etc.

If she doesn't, then push for something post work, but that means you gotta be up till 5-6am the next day. Dinner date on her day off is also good.

[jackkincaid]

(07-22-2014 12:49 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Theres only one way to find out...

Do it and see what she says. If she agrees then you already understand the implications of that. It gives her plausible deniability. She "gotta a little too drunk and didn't wanna drive" so she goes to your place "just for a bit to sober up" etc.

If she doesn't, then push for something post work, but that means you gotta be up till 5-6am the next day. Dinner date on her day off is also good.

OK this was last night, so do you guys think I should wait a few days? Or text her tomorrow?

I know she works Fridays and Saturdays, so this Sunday could be a good off day especially since she's off on Mondays.

[Fortis]

Don't start thinking in terms of "oMG I CAN'T FUCK THIS UP." Think about it, whenever one of your buddies is like "OMG, i don't wanna fuck this up. Help dude!" He almost always sabotages himself when he had something in the bag. You got this and should continue with that train of thought. The other train of thought will just sabotage you.

[Nascimento]

Relax.

If you 'fuck up' it will be a learning experience. Try not to make the same mistake twice.

If I think about were some of my past dates went wrong causing them to flake in the future or costing me bangs, I shake my head at myself but at the same time I know it was an experienced I learned from and I won't make the same mistake again.

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Good suggestions above

I would just add that whatever you decide - Be decisive when making your move, don't be apologetic or apprehensive

If you decide to ask her to come out for dinner on her off day, make it seem like the most natural thing in the world

Because it IS...

[jackkincaid]

(07-22-2014 03:00 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

Good suggestions above

I would just add that whatever you decide - Be decisive when making your move, don't be apologetic or apprehensive

If you decide to ask her to come out for dinner on her off day, make it seem like the most natural thing in the world

Because it IS...

I think I was successful so far because I came off as a guy who's comfortable with women and gets laid -- all communicated in a seemingly incidental way.

So now I need to stay true to that image, and not push her too early for the next date.

I'm thinking I'll wait till Friday, during the day before she goes to work, and text her about coming over Sunday for drinks and dinner.

I'm a great cook, I read about how dinner isn't usually the best date before sex, since you don't get the best kino opportunities but... my gut just says we already did the bar thing, now it's time for dinner at my place, bottle of wine, etc.

Does that seem too beta? Like literally wining and dining her, as if that's the exchange for sex? PUA advice also says you don't want to make it seem like she's obligated to, instead make it just happen.

So bar again and then my place, or just direct my place for dinner? I know it seems I'm being wishy washy, but it's better to get input here and make a firm decision so all she sees is the firm decision.

[Virtus]

Ask her on fri around one pm as to what she is doing before work .Then tell her to come over to hang before work. Imply light dinner on the cards . Nothing says she can't enjoy a good bang before work .Have her drive to you before traffic, serve fruit, cheese, an apperetif and "atempt" to cook light dinner with her and escalate right while making salad or what not. Sex is better than dinner for pretty much anyone. Then once done let her rest and send her on the way to her work. ForYher logistics is perfect . You become her before shift hang/bang and then for you, if you still got the energy you can still go out.

[Donkey_Riding]

(07-22-2014 05:16 PM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

I'm a great cook, I read about how dinner isn't usually the best date before sex, since you don't get the best kino opportunities but... my gut just says we already did the bar thing, now it's time for dinner at my place, bottle of wine, etc.

Does that seem too beta? Like literally wining and dining her, as if that's the exchange for sex? PUA advice also says you don't want to make it seem like she's obligated to, instead make it just happen.

Second date dinner at your place to fuck is a solid strategy.

See the following: http://www.thumotic.com/the-guaranteed-second-date-ban/
Basically you make a curry, get her to help you chop stuff and then it has to go in the oven to cook for about an hour. She's not expecting you to make a move until after dinner so you defy her expectations and escalate hard. Often you will end up fucking her before dinner.

Don't worry about fucking up; that's the wrong mindset to have. Just invite her over to your place and bust moves. Either she'll fuck you or she won't; all you have to do is escalate as far as you can.

[jackkincaid]

So I texted her friday morning about coming over to my place this weekend... no reply.

What's the right play? Just leave it at that and forget about this one?

I mean, our last contact was late night Monday after I drive home and she said we "definitely" will hang again so...

[Talekhine]

(07-26-2014 02:47 PM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

So I texted her friday morning about coming over to my place this weekend... no reply.

What's the right play? Just leave it at that and forget about this one?

I mean, our last contact was late night Monday after I drive home and she said we "definitely" will hang again so...

A few possibilities that I see:

(1) She likes you but was disappointed that you waited the full week before contacting her, and didn't want to reply too soon and seem eager after you waited so long.
(2) She likes you but doesn't want to have sex so soon, and isn't sure how to tactfully turn down your offer and slow things down.
(3) The alcohol made her more receptive on Monday and she now regrets things now that she's had time to think them over.

Here's a few things I would have done differently:

-Tried for sex on the initial night. Your post made her seem very receptive to everything. Sounds like you didn't even try because you assumed she was tired from her trip.

-Texted her some sort of 'fun' text during the week, which was not making a request of her. This is just to get a read on her mindset.

-Only if she reacted warmly/eagerly to the above text would I have gone for the dinner invite at your house.


Unless she made it super obvious that she wanted to fuck you, texting her to come over to your house at 3am is a big jump from making out and holding hands the last time you saw her a week ago.

Btw, it's been a day -- has she still not replied?

[FretDancer]

How do you expect to learn if you don't screw up?

[jackkincaid]

(07-28-2014 05:14 AM)Talekhine Wrote:  

A few possibilities that I see:

(1) She likes you but was disappointed that you waited the full week before contacting her, and didn't want to reply too soon and seem eager after you waited so long.
(2) She likes you but doesn't want to have sex so soon, and isn't sure how to tactfully turn down your offer and slow things down.
(3) The alcohol made her more receptive on Monday and she now regrets things now that she's had time to think them over.

Yeah, I did not try for sex that initial night, it was near her house and it just didn't occur to me. She also seemed pretty into going straight to bed, so I don't think she would've gone for it.

I waited 3 days and not a week, I think 3 days isn't too long. So #1 is not likely. Also, #3 is possible but seems unlikely. If that's what happened I should just forget this one and move on.

I think #2 is the most likely. I am friends with her on FB and saw from her status that she did work yesterday. I had suggested Sunday since I assumed she's off Sunday.

She's definitely off today so I'll just wait for a reply. If I get nothing, should I just stop all contact with her, or send a short note? I'm already going out this week to hang out with other prospects, but it just feels weird for a strong initial reaction to just fizzle out so sharply.

[Talekhine]

(07-28-2014 08:25 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

She's definitely off today so I'll just wait for a reply. If I get nothing, should I just stop all contact with her, or send a short note? I'm already going out this week to hang out with other prospects, but it just feels weird for a strong initial reaction to just fizzle out so sharply.

If you do send a short note, I'd wait about a week from now (assuming your last message to her clearly required a response that she hasn't given), and just make it something light and amusing which doesn't require anything of her.

Yeah, sometimes girls who seem super into you will turn cold a few days later. It might be less about your game than about whatever is going on in her life. Maybe she's dating another guy and even though she seemed to like you a lot, she may like him more.

[iamdegaussed]

strike while the iron is hot rings true here. I would have tried to fuck her in her car or at least escalated to the point that she knew she was getting fucked with better logistics. One of the best things I've ever done was learn to keep condoms in my car and keep the back seat clean.

[jackkincaid]

(07-28-2014 10:09 PM)Talekhine Wrote:  

(07-28-2014 08:25 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

She's definitely off today so I'll just wait for a reply. If I get nothing, should I just stop all contact with her, or send a short note? I'm already going out this week to hang out with other prospects, but it just feels weird for a strong initial reaction to just fizzle out so sharply.

If you do send a short note, I'd wait about a week from now (assuming your last message to her clearly required a response that she hasn't given), and just make it something light and amusing which doesn't require anything of her.

My last message was sent to her last Friday and it just said "dinner at my place on sunday?"

So I figure today or tomorrow I can send a short note like "too soon?" that's sort of humorous. Or would that sound too needy? Personally I think it's funny.

[Talekhine]

(07-29-2014 11:08 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

So I figure today or tomorrow I can send a short note like "too soon?" that's sort of humorous. Or would that sound too needy? Personally I think it's funny.

If she knew that you didn't really care and were just messing around, she may find it slightly amusing (only slightly). It can easily be interpreted as you being hung up on her and on the fact that she didn't reply earlier. That message basically takes the thing from before that she didn't like (your invite) and focuses her attention back on that, without doing much else of redeeming value.

[jackkincaid]

Well guys, I've figured it out.

I haven't really been checking out her FB page, as I generally don't like to feel as if I'm a stalker. But I couldn't really square her behavior with the vibes I got so I did some snooping on FB.

Apparently she started seeing a guy a few weeks before she went out with me. He's nowhere in her pictures, but she's in like every picture he has on FB.

Now, to be fair, I didn't go on a "date" with her, it was advertised as "catching up with a friend". But I really did not put on the moves either, as I mentioned. She pretty much made it happen by giving me signals any experienced guy would've acted on.

So, bottom line -- she's a slut who caught herself before going all the way. Also a socially inept one, for she couldn't resist going all first-date on me, but then could not find any graceful way (or any way at all) of letting me know she'd rather date the other guy.

Oh and lol he's no doubt oblivious.

When I first started reading Roosh and Heartiste, I just could not believe how cynical they were about women. I hate it when they're right. But the anecdotes just keep proving them right. My last relationship was a really long-term one with a real quality girl, never flaked, lied or cheated on me, always upfront, on time, and she's looking better and better in the rear-view.

EDIT: Oh and you guys were right also about that 1st night -- shoulda gone for the bang while the iron was obviously hot. Wasn't the best setup since I'd need to talk her into letting me in to her place, but ya can't bet on round 2.

[Talekhine]

(07-30-2014 12:00 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

So, bottom line -- she's a slut who caught herself before going all the way. Also a socially inept one, for she couldn't resist going all first-date on me, but then could not find any graceful way (or any way at all) of letting me know she'd rather date the other guy.

She may be a slut, but it doesn't sound like she "caught herself." She basically served her pussy up for you on a platter (even initiating kino for you), and you didn't do anything about it. Your passivity probably left her feeling pretty dissapointed.

She went out with you with the intention of getting fucked, in a way that she didn't feel too guilty about. She would have rationalized it by telling herself that it was appropriate to meet up with you because "she was just catching up with a friend", she was drinking a lot, and "it just happened".

It will be a lot harder for her to rationalize meeting up with you again. She may not even want to meet up with you again because she doesn't think you'll be able to give her what she wants, since you didn't the first time.

There's some chance that you can salvage this, but you need to give her plausible deniability.

[jackkincaid]

(07-30-2014 01:08 AM)Talekhine Wrote:  

(07-30-2014 12:00 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

So, bottom line -- she's a slut who caught herself before going all the way. Also a socially inept one, for she couldn't resist going all first-date on me, but then could not find any graceful way (or any way at all) of letting me know she'd rather date the other guy.

She may be a slut, but it doesn't sound like she "caught herself." She basically served her pussy up for you on a platter (even initiating kino for you), and you didn't do anything about it. Your passivity probably left her feeling pretty dissapointed.

She went out with you with the intention of getting fucked, in a way that she didn't feel too guilty about. She would have rationalized it by telling herself that it was appropriate to meet up with you because "she was just catching up with a friend", she was drinking a lot, and "it just happened".

It will be a lot harder for her to rationalize meeting up with you again. She may not even want to meet up with you again because she doesn't think you'll be able to give her what she wants, since you didn't the first time.

There's some chance that you can salvage this, but you need to give her plausible deniability.

I'm done with this chick, I agree I could've gotten the bang, but she most definitely did not come out expecting to get fucked.

If she wanted a bang she had like 50 easy ways to suggest it, such as "hey you look pretty drunk are you safe to drive?" In which case I could go back to her place to "sober up." Instead she mentioned how she was destroyed from three days of travel and now four hours of drinking/hanging out with me, and wanted to sleep. I also think it's not some massive misstep to feel like a 2nd date bang was a lock after that reception. It seemed perfectly reasonable given what I knew at the time.

Again like I said I was hoping for LTR and not one bang. Knowing what I do now about her sluttiness, if I had to do it again, of course I'd have tried to bang her. Now after the fact, it's not worth the effort or risk losing face for a chance to be the occasional booty call for a low-quality girl when I have other girls to pursue for an LTR. Call me a romantic I guess.

[Virtus]

just to make a point. pouring out forum distillate if you will.

ANY thread where you ask about any PARTICULAR girl, pretty much means, that the girl is most certainly lost already

[Talekhine]

(07-30-2014 08:53 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

but she most definitely did not come out expecting to get fucked.

If she wanted a bang she had like 50 easy ways to suggest it, such as "hey you look pretty drunk are you safe to drive?" In which case I could go back to her place to "sober up." Instead she mentioned how she was destroyed from three days of travel and now four hours of drinking/hanging out with me, and wanted to sleep.

You may be right -- you have lots more info than me about what happened. However note that I am not saying that she wanted sex at the moment before she left. By that time, perhaps she was genuinely tired and just wanted to go to bed. Girls can definitely go on a date wanting sex and then decide at some point change their mind based on what happens. It's happened to me.

(07-30-2014 08:53 AM)jackkincaid Wrote:  

I also think it's not some massive misstep to feel like a 2nd date bang was a lock after that reception. It seemed perfectly reasonable given what I knew at the time.

Agree that the misstep wasn't massive. And maybe if you are only want to date girls who would be put off by you pushing for sex so soon, it was the right move, though I think those girls are a very small %. There are so many times that I've thought "I have plenty of time in the world", and later somehow lost the opportunity. I think it's really easy to get overconfident when you're in a moment when things are going super well.

Btw out of curiosity, did your facebook investigation make it clear that she and this guy were exclusive? If they just started dating non-exclusively, what she did wasn't that bad IMO.

[jackkincaid]

[quote] (07-31-2014 04:13 AM)Talekhine Wrote:  

[quote='jackkincaid' pid='793943' dateline='1406728430']
Btw out of curiosity, did your facebook investigation make it clear that she and this guy were exclusive? If they just started dating non-exclusively, what she did wasn't that bad IMO.[/quote]

I can't be sure, it looks like they started hanging out/dating a couple weeks before we went out, and that they resumed after our impromptu "date."

I would agree it's not like she cheated or anything, but I think it's rude to just ignore the 2nd guy without explaining anything, especially when you consider that it's not a random bar guy but someone she's known since grad school for years.

It's not hard or embarrassing for her just to text and say "sorry I've decided to see someone else" or whatever. In fact a girl did that to me before and I wasn't in the least offended -- she and I are gym buddies and legit friends now.

Going from 100% to 0% silence without closing the loop is rude or evidence of social ineptness. Who knows, she also said she has ADD so maybe she forgot or didn't care.