[rudebwoy]

I think this is a great topic, I wanted to post this before but thought i would have got flamed on.

Roosh wrote a great article about being a good clown, I think it speaks along this line.

Todays women want to be in control, "beta" men are more controllable and are better for them in the long run.

[coverdoc]

It's funny after reading this I began to realize a lot of what you guys are saying is the absolute truth. When ever I am out spitting to a bish, the cuter she is generally the nicer she is and more receptive to my game, the average to ugly chicks I get the worse type of rejections. Especially from the average chicks, My boy said it's because average looking chicks get hollered at a lot more than ugly and attractive chicks because all guys feel like they have better chances with them then lets say the attractive girl and of course no one likes fuglies.

[xxMarco]

This explains a lot of things. Sometimes i'll do an approach and the girls seem nervous. I can feel it in the way she talks and looks around. The way she stumbles across her words. After talking with my wingman he says it happens because I give off an alpha vibe and I intimidate girls. I laughed and ignored it. I thought this is bullshit, i've never gotten rejected for being cool but it keeps happening.

I understand not all girls are going to be into you when you're out and approaching but its more then a coincidence. Its happened where I see a girl from work hanging out, I'll approach them and say hey how are you, they freeze up like those goats. This is strange to me since i've never really been a super handsome guy or anything.
I also get that line where, "you must be a player, you do this all the time, blah blah blah"
glad someone opened up a thread on this and shine some light.

[Nomad77]

The high quality the girl, the more confident she will be, the less this will happen.

[Redwood]

I mean, yeah if you're truly an alpha male, you wouldn't sweat those hos.

[Constitution45]

Well if you are approaching and reading RoK posts or other material, you are already way further ahead than the majority of the male population. Because this forum and game in general is a reaction to all this fucked up emasculating culture, it really gives an insight into male&female dynamics which most people have the benefit of just not knowing; especially guys from other countries, which have a hook up culture that is a lot less toxic.

My number one regret, is with approaching average looking girls, a lot of it came from approach anxiety, however these ones will turn out to be rude or even if it escalated I wouldn't feel like I had accomplished a lot. I vow that whenever I approach girls in the future, they will be 8 or above.

[reaper23]

i've come to the realization that i terrify most 6's and 7's. i make them all nervous and suspicious of my motives. i've had to dumb down some of my accomplishments/lifestyle to make the younger ones feel comfortable.

part of the journey i'm on right now is understanding and consolidating how i've grown. i under estimated myself for a while. my recent pulls have really highlighted the fact that i've come a long way. readjusting my frame upwards is actually not as easy as it sounds.

[Dalaran1991]

Forgot the most important question:

How do you know if the girl is being cold to you because, well she is not interested/your game doesn't hook VS she thinks you are out of her league (which is what we are discussing here)?

This is very important for newb-intermediate gamers like me who have a tendency to overgame/oversell, so please give input.

I'm still not that sharp with game but I did have some girls who were very warm to me said things like "you are a player no? You really like girls" or "There's nothing you haven't done/Is there anything you don't know?" then they turned ice cold afterward.

I'm not sure if in that kind of situation I did something that kill attraction or they turned their bitch mode on as self-defense.

[Grit]

Why do you think women are intimidated by what you assume is high value? I thought game set the standard of 'observe who women are fucking and act that way'

in other words, here's a simple thought.

Women often say that they like excitement. If you interpret that literally, I mean real tangible increase in heart rate, rapid breathing, dizziness, blood rush to the head, etc. Having wads of cash and nice clothes in most cases has no effect on another person's heart rate.

Now, context is super important, because money can be used in way that invites a girls excitement. Language can be used to create excitement. Violence can do it too. Travel does it. Acting out of context (think about the excitement of possibly getting caught doing something naughty in a monotonous place) does it.

So when most girls age 16-26 are looking for excitement, and not a good provider, not stability, not a house, not a job, not bills, not kids, not even looking out for friends or family- but plain and simple excitement, now you are better to define 'high value' as 'high excitement'

[The Beast1]

(07-10-2014 12:48 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Why do you think women are intimidated by what you assume is high value? I thought game set the standard of 'observe who women are fucking and act that way'

in other words, here's a simple thought.

Women often say that they like excitement. If you interpret that literally, I mean real tangible increase in heart rate, rapid breathing, dizziness, blood rush to the head, etc. Having wads of cash and nice clothes in most cases has no effect on another person's heart rate.

Now, context is super important, because money can be used in way that invites a girls excitement. Language can be used to create excitement. Violence can do it too. Travel does it. Acting out of context (think about the excitement of possibly getting caught doing something naughty in a monotonous place) does it.

So when most girls age 16-26 are looking for excitement, and not a good provider, not stability, not a house, not a job, not bills, not kids, not even looking out for friends or family- but plain and simple excitement, now you are better to define 'high value' as 'high excitement'

This makes sense and probably is why I suffer. Without speaking, I look very serious, stern, and potentially able to cut you down to size. The second I open my mouth it's obvious i'm a level 10 dork.

Yet a similar friend of mine who plays guitar in a band and is all around a fun guy gets laid no problem. He doesn't look intimidating at all. He's been in college for 5 years, is on welfare and food assistance, and bangs like it is no tomorrow.

I guess the one benefit I have is keeping girls around. I struggle at drawing them in, but can keep them through thick and thin. He can get the girls, but loses them after a certain amount of time. Smart guy though.

(07-09-2014 08:46 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 07:56 AM)velkrum Wrote:  

are damaged women intimidated by good men?

Quote:

people are conditioned to what they're used to.

Its all they know.

When a new concept enters ie. you as a good guy, it shakes their belief system to the very core, their paradigm has being directy challenged and the only way to handle it is to reject it. These girls don't believe they deserve the love and respect you give them and will run straight to the arms of the guys who treat her the way they're used to.

A few thoughts:

There is an old clip somewhere from Patrice O'Neal that explains this part. He had a fish tank that had a couple of exotic fish in it. I believe they were African Cichlids. He had a gentlemen that came by a few times per month to clean the tank and check on his fish. He decided that he didn't need the guy anymore, so he tried to clean the tank himself. When he did, the fish became very ill and were on the verge of death. After poking around online, he realized that these fish were used to poor quality water, as that is what they were conditioned to living in back in their native habitat. He had to get the old fish tank guy back to fix it for him.

He would then take and related this to women. Some women are so used to being with the real dark triad alphas with no future, that looking at a natural alpha or a successful alpha, they poison their own chances since they are used to the "dirty water", so to speak. This could account for part of it, which leads into my next point:

Quote:

Now that I have some success, am confident, am secure as a man, dress well, am in shape, and know what I’m doing in life—the girls around here are definitely intimidated.

Remember the concept of projection: it's why women act dominant to get dominant men, it's why they swear like a sailor, drink liquor, and wear heels (think height). They are attracted to those qualities, so they assume men are attracted to those qualities, and portray them. Even though they couldn't be more wrong.

This also applies in another way: I'm sure we've all seen those articles where women bemoan that most guys are "intimidated" by a strong, independent woman ™. If we assume this to be projection, we can infer that they often experience intimidation by a strong, independent male. Therefore I think that women can very well be intimidated by a guy who is higher value than she is used to being able to maintain.

The only other explanation I can think of at this time is if the women are in "provider mode". This usually happens either post-wall, or right after a particularly nasty pump-and-dump, or toxic relationship with an alpha.

That's a good theory. Thanks for the post. Rep given.

[Samseau]

(07-09-2014 04:45 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

I've found that most average girls who exhibit this behavior have been pumped and dumped by a player before. At least once if not more. They get pulled into a harem by a guy who didn't want a LTR and proceeded to spin them as plates until they get frustrated and leaves.

Ironically, it's probably guys like us that cause this problem to occur. Chalk it up to another victim of the sexual revolution.

Correct.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-10-2014 05:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 04:45 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

I've found that most average girls who exhibit this behavior have been pumped and dumped by a player before. At least once if not more. They get pulled into a harem by a guy who didn't want a LTR and proceeded to spin them as plates until they get frustrated and leaves.

Ironically, it's probably guys like us that cause this problem to occur. Chalk it up to another victim of the sexual revolution.

Correct.

I think, we are sometimes over-intellectualizing a point. I see the following reasons for that kind of behavior:

1. She is one of the good girls/higher value and tries to avoid obvious Players
2. She is a sucker for Dark Triad Alphas or for a different variation of Alpha - you are just not her type
3. She feels that you are way too attractive for her and you will dump her anyway - or worse - she is absolutely shocked that you are interested in her (rare in current times of the entitlement-queens)
4. All 3 of the above reasons fall away, when she is horny, is in the right ovulation cycle, needs a dick to forget about her ex-boyfriend, gets drunk enough and you will do for that night. Then she will fuck you, while having turned you down 2 weeks before in the very same bar.

Very few girls are actually consistent all the time - either being total sluts and having ONSs every night or totally sticking to their pre-determined dating rules and putting out only after a prolonged courting-process. Most are just drifting along - given the right moment, the right place and the right man - she will fuck You and hamsterize away her behavior in the morning after.

It is our job to become the man who has an increased likelihood of becoming a desirable man with Game, who also happens to be out there via Day-Game and Night-Game in order to be there - and who is skilled at stoking the embers of her fiery loins. Without those embers, there is little anyone can do - not Brad Pitt, not George Clooney and no Justin Bieber. No man is able to get all the women he wants all the time.

[reaper23]

i recently came across what could be considered a very high value female. think legit 10 in her day, fame, plus money. she was mid 30's so past her prime and into a new career.

we dated 4-5 times but she kept her distance and limited physicality. she really wanted to learn about me first and b/c of her value, i rolled with it. she kept me at a distance and when she determined i wasn't right for her (and really she not for me either) she ended it.

clearly this is terrible game but at some points you meet your match. and i'll admit she tried to keep frame and i was successful at breaking it, but not entirely obviously.

this is an entirely different perspective than the scaring 6's and 7's but still same phenomenon of rejection. rejection of any kind is where the lessons are.

[Santoro]

The other side of the coin is that if you are high value...be aware if you are flagrant about it in your attitude. There's a fine line between chest thumping and being a confident, genuine, social man. Girls (and people in general) can sniff out value without being beat over the head with the message.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-13-2014 11:00 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

i recently came across what could be considered a very high value female. think legit 10 in her day, fame, plus money. she was mid 30's so past her prime and into a new career.

we dated 4-5 times but she kept her distance and limited physicality. she really wanted to learn about me first and b/c of her value, i rolled with it. she kept me at a distance and when she determined i wasn't right for her (and really she not for me either) she ended it.

clearly this is terrible game but at some points you meet your match. and i'll admit she tried to keep frame and i was successful at breaking it, but not entirely obviously.

this is an entirely different perspective than the scaring 6's and 7's but still same phenomenon of rejection. rejection of any kind is where the lessons are.

That former 10 is a 7-6 at best at age 35. Fame and money are no attraction points for men of value. In effect she was looking for a future husband / LTR and. Some women between the ages 31-34 are harder to game than between 21-29. They are making a last ditch effort of getting Mr. Big.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/1...e-bracket/

Don't take me wrong - sometimes there are some single women at age 35 who have not ridden the carousel and are quite sane, but they are few and far in between. A man aged 55+ is doing fine dating in that age-range.

[Samseau]

(07-13-2014 11:00 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

i recently came across what could be considered a very high value female. think legit 10 in her day, fame, plus money. she was mid 30's so past her prime and into a new career.

we dated 4-5 times but she kept her distance and limited physicality. she really wanted to learn about me first and b/c of her value, i rolled with it. she kept me at a distance and when she determined i wasn't right for her (and really she not for me either) she ended it.

clearly this is terrible game but at some points you meet your match. and i'll admit she tried to keep frame and i was successful at breaking it, but not entirely obviously.

this is an entirely different perspective than the scaring 6's and 7's but still same phenomenon of rejection. rejection of any kind is where the lessons are.

Honestly, you should have kept her at the 3-date rule. By giving her so much time to "decide" if you would have sex, you basically let her have control. I think you were dazed by her beauty and fucked up here. It's cool. We all do it around the hottest girls.

Just take the lessons forward to the next women, that's all we can do.

[reaper23]

(07-13-2014 07:01 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-13-2014 11:00 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

i recently came across what could be considered a very high value female. think legit 10 in her day, fame, plus money. she was mid 30's so past her prime and into a new career.

we dated 4-5 times but she kept her distance and limited physicality. she really wanted to learn about me first and b/c of her value, i rolled with it. she kept me at a distance and when she determined i wasn't right for her (and really she not for me either) she ended it.

clearly this is terrible game but at some points you meet your match. and i'll admit she tried to keep frame and i was successful at breaking it, but not entirely obviously.

this is an entirely different perspective than the scaring 6's and 7's but still same phenomenon of rejection. rejection of any kind is where the lessons are.

Honestly, you should have kept her at the 3-date rule. By giving her so much time to "decide" if you would have sex, you basically let her have control. I think you were dazed by her beauty and fucked up here. It's cool. We all do it around the hottest girls.

Just take the lessons forward to the next women, that's all we can do.

I totally let her have control. there was not much else i could do. her frame was unshakeable. she was russian too. very delicate to handle. but i was along for the ride and knew that really she wasn't a good fit for me. she definitely was not going to be down for being just another in the rotation and thats fine.

i limited my expenses and we had some good fun. and we're friends now. she actually has depth and is interesting so its a win for me.

date three was at my house, lights off, i pushed as far as i could. when a woman is used to having every man in the universe try to claim her, use her, fuck her just for who she is, etc and more - she knows all the games.

this is all part of my general strategy though.

you build the pyramid of multiple girls giving you everything you want that you have complete control over. and then there are the 'reach' women i'm willing to take risks on or do things a bit differently.

no matter. literally a week later a hotter, younger, taller version of this woman picked me up on the street. american and not all flush with fame and money, so gamed as usual and quick success.

and to other poster saying a legit 10 at 26 drops to a 6 in 8 years is hysterical. good luck with that perspective buddy.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-14-2014 08:52 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

and to other poster saying a legit 10 at 26 drops to a 6 in 8 years is hysterical. good luck with that perspective buddy.

Maybe I should clarify:

A 9-10 can be in terrific shape by age 35 still, but her average value generally has fallen for the average man as well. Otherwise the 25 year old billionaire scion would pick her just as well, but this does not happen in reality.

However individually there are factors which raise every woman by several points depending on his liking - vegan (if you are vegan), spiritual, religious, RedPill, feminine etc. Just as I add sometimes several points on my individual attractiveness-scale for certain areas, there are certainly others who are doing the same. So frankly I can understand also a High-Value-Man picking even a 35-year-old for a wife, but face it - she is not 21-24 anymore and the God of biomechanics is brutal.

[aphelion]

This is part and parcel of why Mark Manson advocates showing desire. Once you successfully indicate that you're A) a high value male and B) that you genuinely desire the object of your affection, she can feel free to act upon her attraction as well.

A lot of times, the reason why valuable guys get rejected is that deep-seated fear that she is just being used for a bang. Genuine desire mollifies that fear.

[reaper23]

(07-14-2014 09:43 AM)aphelion Wrote:  

This is part and parcel of why Mark Manson advocates showing desire. Once you successfully indicate that you're A) a high value male and B) that you genuinely desire the object of your affection, she can feel free to act upon her attraction as well.

A lot of times, the reason why valuable guys get rejected is that deep-seated fear that she is just being used for a bang. Genuine desire mollifies that fear.

indeed. the past year my game has become more of deflecting my status/value and being beta as shit. offering emotional intimacy, being affectionate, etc.

but my game is to guide them gently into being another one of the girls on rotation getting her dose of special time with me every so often.

women i'm meeting these days (aside from the one referenced above) seem to be very happy to find a guy who can offer them a safe place emotionally, great sex and an escape from the world - yet with neither party hoping/expecting it to escalate into a R-elationship. this space i've made for them seems to be particularly appealing.

[reaper23]

(07-14-2014 09:37 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 08:52 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

and to other poster saying a legit 10 at 26 drops to a 6 in 8 years is hysterical. good luck with that perspective buddy.

Maybe I should clarify:

A 9-10 can be in terrific shape by age 35 still, but her average value generally has fallen for the average man as well. Otherwise the 25 year old billionaire scion would pick her just as well, but this does not happen in reality.

However individually there are factors which raise every woman by several points depending on his liking - vegan (if you are vegan), spiritual, religious, RedPill, feminine etc. Just as I add sometimes several points on my individual attractiveness-scale for certain areas, there are certainly others who are doing the same. So frankly I can understand also a High-Value-Man picking even a 35-year-old for a wife, but face it - she is not 21-24 anymore and the God of biomechanics is brutal.

yes her value has fallen from when she was 24. but a 6 bro? seriously. i mean, i can't barely fuck a six anymore. a 10 who has aged but stays in great shape is to me, or in this case in particular, definitely an 8.

the problem with this one was that she was married from 21-29, locked up from 30-34 and is now trying desperately to find a husband and dad for the kids she wants.

messing with me aint getting her there

[Samseau]

(07-14-2014 09:43 AM)aphelion Wrote:  

This is part and parcel of why Mark Manson advocates showing desire. Once you successfully indicate that you're A) a high value male and B) that you genuinely desire the object of your affection, she can feel free to act upon her attraction as well.

A lot of times, the reason why valuable guys get rejected is that deep-seated fear that she is just being used for a bang. Genuine desire mollifies that fear.

Bro, Mark Manson did not invent showing desire. This is so lol on so many levels.

You can go back to probably the pick-up books in the 1970's on when/how to properly show male desire without getting blown out. Fuck, it's in Ovid's Art of Love.

[Samseau]

(07-14-2014 10:04 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 09:37 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 08:52 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

and to other poster saying a legit 10 at 26 drops to a 6 in 8 years is hysterical. good luck with that perspective buddy.

Maybe I should clarify:

A 9-10 can be in terrific shape by age 35 still, but her average value generally has fallen for the average man as well. Otherwise the 25 year old billionaire scion would pick her just as well, but this does not happen in reality.

However individually there are factors which raise every woman by several points depending on his liking - vegan (if you are vegan), spiritual, religious, RedPill, feminine etc. Just as I add sometimes several points on my individual attractiveness-scale for certain areas, there are certainly others who are doing the same. So frankly I can understand also a High-Value-Man picking even a 35-year-old for a wife, but face it - she is not 21-24 anymore and the God of biomechanics is brutal.

yes her value has fallen from when she was 24. but a 6 bro? seriously. i mean, i can't barely fuck a six anymore. a 10 who has aged but stays in great shape is to me, or in this case in particular, definitely an 8.

the problem with this one was that she was married from 21-29, locked up from 30-34 and is now trying desperately to find a husband and dad for the kids she wants.

messing with me aint getting her there

If a woman wears daily sunscreen, eats right, and exercises, she can easily look amazing until 40. No joke.

That said, this woman you were gaming is getting old and needs a meal ticket, so of course she's going to play hard to get. Since she's in America (and not Russia), I'm sure she will get a husband no problemo.

[Truth Teller]

(07-14-2014 10:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Bro, Mark Manson did not invent showing desire. This is so lol on so many levels.

You can go back to probably the pick-up books in the 1970's on when/how to properly show male desire without getting blown out. Fuck, it's in Ovid's Art of Love.

I don't think he inferred that Mark Manson invented showing desire. Doing so would be tantamount to saying that Mark Manson invented direct game, which he clearly did not.

Showing desire as a high status, attractive man is a valid tool. However, if you're a beginner and you go around saying "Hey, I just saw you, and I think you're beautiful," you're going to fail a lot more than you would by being more middle of the road.

Also, don't get me started on Mark Manson's vulnerability thing. It sounds good, but he takes it way too far.

[reaper23]

(07-14-2014 10:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 10:04 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 09:37 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 08:52 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  

and to other poster saying a legit 10 at 26 drops to a 6 in 8 years is hysterical. good luck with that perspective buddy.

Maybe I should clarify:

A 9-10 can be in terrific shape by age 35 still, but her average value generally has fallen for the average man as well. Otherwise the 25 year old billionaire scion would pick her just as well, but this does not happen in reality.

However individually there are factors which raise every woman by several points depending on his liking - vegan (if you are vegan), spiritual, religious, RedPill, feminine etc. Just as I add sometimes several points on my individual attractiveness-scale for certain areas, there are certainly others who are doing the same. So frankly I can understand also a High-Value-Man picking even a 35-year-old for a wife, but face it - she is not 21-24 anymore and the God of biomechanics is brutal.

yes her value has fallen from when she was 24. but a 6 bro? seriously. i mean, i can't barely fuck a six anymore. a 10 who has aged but stays in great shape is to me, or in this case in particular, definitely an 8.

the problem with this one was that she was married from 21-29, locked up from 30-34 and is now trying desperately to find a husband and dad for the kids she wants.

messing with me aint getting her there

If a woman wears daily sunscreen, eats right, and exercises, she can easily look amazing until 40. No joke.

That said, this woman you were gaming is getting old and needs a meal ticket, so of course she's going to play hard to get. Since she's in America (and not Russia), I'm sure she will get a husband no problemo.

daily yoga, sailing, vegetarian, no gluten, very focused on keeping herself fit and healthy. plus an amazing wardrobe and perfect style.

she has her own money, made a ton before. she really isn't looking for a meal ticket. looking for quality sperm delivery and father/husband. can't blame her.

and the fact she knows herself so well and want she wants/needs actually is admirable.

and for me, whatever. i got laid the day before, the day after, and sometimes the day of the dates i had with her. no skin off my back to give it a whirl.