[VincentVinturi]

Could it be that the countries where women are treated as Protected Species result in shitty attitude because men can't bitch slap a woman for acting cray when it's truly warranted...?

Think about it: we're hierarchical animals and one of the most effective ways to control behavior is through violence or the threat of violence. In most cases actual violence isn't necessary. But just women knowing that a dude can knock the stupid out of them if they act hysterical is a strong deterrent of shitty behavior.

In the West, women are completely insulated from any consequences to ANY of their actions whatsoever. You so much as breathe on a woman too hard in America and you're looking at serious legal fallout. In countries where there's a strong masculine/feminine polarity the men have the implicit authority to use violence judiciously.

I've never had to really smack a woman. But if somebody pisses me off I get this crazy fuckin Ralph Gracie style look in my eyes that usually stops any kind histrionics in their tracks.



What do ya'll think?

[SydneyD]

Be like a white Confucius in a constant state of meditation

Be like the Taoist unperturbed by outside forces

Or as Roosh would say, be like the clown in this chaotic circus that is America and find a way to entertain these bitches and their toddler-like minds

Be like Machiaveli. "The End justifies the Means" right? And your "End" is to get laid right?

So you must be prepared to take shit from women because women are very shitty in nature.

Be like Confucius. It is inevitable that a hot bitch you're gaming will flake but should that compromise your dignity? IT SHOULD NOT! Women and their shitty behaviour is an incurable part of life. ACCEPT THIS. You should not me emotionally stirred or destabilised if a woman acts like a bitch because she is a bitch! If she flakes on you don't just sulk and push the metaphorical Next button, give her one more strike before doing so.

I reckon that 'nexting' a bitch after minimal bitchy behavior in the name of 'self respect' is a sign of emotional insecurity. Be like the buddhist monk and don't allow that shit to phase you!!! Listen to your penis! It wants to ravage her genitalia regardless of whether or not she flaked once SO don't let your emotions get in the way of your penis' happiness.

That being said, don't take too much shit from women for God's sake you're not a public toilet. Don't let her trample over you like she owns your ass. Find the balance between accepting her shitty nature and not entertaining her shitty behavior and only then will you find true joy

*NB- The above should be read with a very strong Chinese accent

[WestIndianArchie]

I can't really call it. Maybe i'm just used to American lizards, but their behavior is the sort of thing I expect from chicks of a certain age and attractiveness.

That being said, you're hitting these chicks with a nice double attack
- comply with my rules
- get lost.

She either gets with the program, or gets a bus pass.

You're screening for compliance, for long term acceptability, and you're cutting through the chaff. Some notches, I'd rather have my sanity/integrity back.

My other thought on this, is by sticking with your standards, you get a better quality of girl for you.

What you lose in quantity, you more than make up for in quality, all things being equal of course. (and they never are, are they?)

WIA

[TonySandos]

I'm a person that sees my goals and aspirations as more important than temporary situations or outside interference.

If I'm going to evaluate putting up with anything, from girls to a shitty job, I weigh that time spent on if I'm cheating myself by partaking instead of time spent otherwise. If I am then I wash my hands of it with no regret.

[Noir]

(06-16-2014 02:52 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I can't really call it. Maybe i'm just used to American lizards, but their behavior is the sort of thing I expect from chicks of a certain age and attractiveness.

That being said, you're hitting these chicks with a nice double attack
- comply with my rules
- get lost.

She either gets with the program, or gets a bus pass.

You're screening for compliance, for long term acceptability, and you're cutting through the chaff. Some notches, I'd rather have my sanity/integrity back.

My other thought on this, is by sticking with your standards, you get a better quality of girl for you.

What you lose in quantity, you more than make up for in quality, all things being equal of course. (and they never are, are they?)

WIA

I would generalize more on the scope of it and say its all Westernized women.

I have encountered this in Europe, worse in the West than the East but prevalent throughout.

My own personal opinion is that women are like that as a result of their environment making it easier/more acceptable for such behaviour. That combined with supply and demand, more thirsty guys, more options.

My long term solution is to keep progressing and making myself better. Becoming a stronger magnet. Elevating myself to the top league where the supply and demands are shifted- 80/20 rule where I am no longer just the 20% but the 1% who attracts the elite women without textbook obstacles.

My progress is going through a flakiness patch at the moment with the 8s and 9s trying to get me to accept bratty behaviour, pre-bang. I don't concern myself anymore and I ignore but I never next absolutely on the first two strikes.

I will re-message them after a while and they are responsive. Sometimes all you have to do is let their minds 'reset' due to the knee-jerk reaction they have towards things, influences by any sort of externality. The only drawback is that a lot of these hotties move on to the next supplicating guy, usually below their league. Hell, some of them just want to be fucked and don't care about meeting your standards (wifey) because they don't care about your conception of them or are more invested in 3rd party images such as their profiles on facebook. Nomad77 posted something similar to this, I agree 100%.

The attention 'net' of women has increased therefore the demand for their attention and acknowledgement has increased through the multitude of avenues for their 'fix'. Conversely, the supply has remained the same. If anything, we have more women punching above their weight.

Keep in mind, I refer to girls in my age group, 19 - 26.

26 - 32 are less flaky but more demanding. It is a bigger investment and a different product you are selling altogether. Your standards remain the same nonetheless. My experience is that with these ones, they will flake if they sense a player vibe compared to the younger crowd which enjoy it i.e girls want what other girls want, their social value increases etc.

Nonetheless, I always maintain whenever girls ask me if I am looking for someone:

"I am not looking for someone but I am open to auditions"

[Vaun]

(06-16-2014 02:52 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I can't really call it. Maybe i'm just used to American lizards, but their behavior is the sort of thing I expect from chicks of a certain age and attractiveness.

That being said, you're hitting these chicks with a nice double attack
- comply with my rules
- get lost.

She either gets with the program, or gets a bus pass.

You're screening for compliance, for long term acceptability, and you're cutting through the chaff. Some notches, I'd rather have my sanity/integrity back.

My other thought on this, is by sticking with your standards, you get a better quality of girl for you.

What you lose in quantity, you more than make up for in quality, all things being equal of course. (and they never are, are they?)

WIA

This is my problem, I have always screened for long term viability. I am always on the hunt for the one that wants me the most, who treats me the best.

I want the long term viability of a cool fuck buddy. I get stuck between ElMech's advice and this. Some nights I close it out and put up with anything, and others I string it along to find one to get closer to.

But calling girls out has costed me lays. One this weekend that I am regretting a little. I alienated her by saying her dumb racist Hungarian jokes were unfunny. Not because they were, but because she was such a pain in the ass in general to deal with. We had been out twice and had fun dates. She scampered off, and I got tired of putting in the work.

[dog24]

(06-16-2014 01:52 AM)soup Wrote:  

I think the trick us to make yourself into a guy that those girls wouldn't dare act like that around.. If fact they'd do the opposite and try to please you.

How do you suggest we do that with girls who know nothing about you?
If youre referring to looking like a badass i can tell you it has nothing to do with that, only men respect guys that can beat them up out of fear, i agree with what vv said. Girls dont fear the consequences of being rude anymore.

[General Mayhem]

(06-15-2014 04:28 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

That's not them outright disrespecting me, but I feel I'm disrespecting myself by associating with people who are indifferent to seeing me, even if they would let me fuck them. How many dates and fucks until these girls would say something as simple as "I miss you" or "I wish you were here."

I never have this feeling with my male friends - among my male friends, if a guy exhibited behavior like that it would be weird, and I'd soon stop associating with them. But many girls are used to being appreciated, and not doing the appreciating, and that quickly tires me out.

I'm glad you posted this because it got me rethinking my mindset. You want girls who appreciate you on a deep level.

I'm the same way. To me this topic is less about basic disrespect and more about how to filter girls who are going to genuinely appreciate you in the long run.

I've had no luck trying to change bitches. If she isn't overly excited about me right away she usually isn't going to be later on. Even if I fuck her good and she keeps coming back for more she still isn't going to appreciate my personality, just my dick.

I have to keep it real though, I could probably do a better job displaying my value. I want to blame women, but my game could always be tighter.

[Basil Ransom]

I'm starting to think that the sort of behavior that's rankling me is common among men too, I just don't notice it because I'm quick to extricate myself from men who pull that shit. Discussions on here can seem a little anti-woman because we're ignorant of the flaws of most American men, because they have little to offer us in the way of friendship so we avoid their company, whereas we'll give every young woman with a slim waist and a nice face a try.

It's a little like if a man started touching your face to provoke you, and you proceed to sock him in the face - and then everyone calls you a violent brute for starting a fight, when really it was the other dude who started shit, and you were just defending your dignity. I have never gotten into a physical fight as an adult, but I get into the verbal equivalent of these dustups.

I see the little passive aggressive bullshit encoded into the language of women or weak men, but if I call them out on it and dish it back, they'll say I'm overreacting, I'm incredibly rude, I'm being aggressive, etc. Eg, someone asks you "why do you put so much effort into cooking food? (in a derisive tone)" and I'd like to respond "well see, you are fat and that's a fate I'd like to avoid, plus I like to eat well." I grew up in an environment where there were no real bullies, but it was standard operating procedure to call out dudes like that without any real repercussions.

I encounter this most at work, where I'm forced into interacting with certain people I'd otherwise avoid.

[Samseau]

I think a lot of guys here might be too judgmental on girls. Just remember that if you had grown up in her body, and with her experiences, you'd probably be the exact same bitch she is. So don't judge too harshly. Even if you can objectively see she's a piece of shit worthless whore, just remember you'd probably be no different had you been in her shoes. So don't be too hard on her. Life is cruel to women in America because it corrupts them.

[simondice]

Is it that bad in LA? Florida doesn't have that much bullshit from girls (there's many girls from all over the world though).
Maybe it's decreasing because your vibe is a little judgmental? I used to have that problem that I would be too judgmental and my vibe would go to shit, and girls would disappear. I would confuse dominance and frame, and judgment, which makes girls go running for the hill.

[Dalaran1991]

Yeah, definitely. We as men try to be upright and honorable, but that just doesn't work with girls and game.

Obviously there's a point where you gotta draw a line, but most of the time, according to my experience and observation, having a lot of self-respect in small things hurt you.

I think there has been many debates on this forum why you should never call a girls out when and if she flakes, bc that will NOT get you laid. Chateau Heartise also wrote about this. In my work or even with my friends, if someone flakes more than twice I stop having them in my life. In game so often you find yourself ringing up flaky girls simply bc you are running the number game.

Same thing when a girl insults you. I'm still a noob but I find that sometimes it's hard to tell when a girl is being flirty and game-y vs. downright disrespectful. All game wisdom tell you that you oughta stand your ground, laugh and deflect/reframe etc. Normally when some1 talks to me like that I call him/her out.

I think in terms of game it really helps to be a playful assholes who doesn't give a shit and takes no one and nothing seriously, vs being Ned Stark in Game of Thrones. Gone are the days when ladies get wet seeing an honorable and charismatic white knight.

[MikeCF]

(06-15-2014 10:21 PM)LaCobra Wrote:  

(06-15-2014 02:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

My first advice would be to remember that self-respect doesn't mean self-important. Many men (especially younger men) conflate the two concepts.

Mike, could you expand on this?

Let's take flaking as an example.

A man sets a date for drinks with someone who he just wants to put his penis in. He doesn't really care about her or want to get married or make some lifelong connection. He's going out to get laid.

And the girl doesn't show up because something better comes up, or because she's bored, or maybe she feels fat, or maybe she had a bad day at work, or make she wants to stay home and pet her cat.

Isn't it a bit self-important to get fired up over that?

A lot of times we gotta ask, "Who the fuck are we to get mad over something like this?"

If I had an appointment for brain surgery and my doctor flaked, I'd be outraged - and deservedly so. I expect my lawyer to show up to court on time. If I had a trip planned with friends, I'd be pissed if they were late and we mmissed out flight.

But when someone you have no real connection with doesn't show up (or cancels) some casual interaction...What is the big deal?

[MikeCF]

(06-16-2014 11:54 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

I see the little passive aggressive bullshit encoded into the language of women or weak men, but if I call them out on it and dish it back, they'll say I'm overreacting, I'm incredibly rude, I'm being aggressive, etc. Eg, someone asks you "why do you put so much effort into cooking food? (in a derisive tone)" and I'd like to respond "well see, you are fat and that's a fate I'd like to avoid, plus I like to eat well." I grew up in an environment where there were no real bullies, but it was standard operating procedure to call out dudes like that without any real repercussions.

I encounter this most at work, where I'm forced into interacting with certain people I'd otherwise avoid.

I can relate as I used to be that way.

In hindsight, I was still processing anger.

Now I don't GAF.

When you are so quick to see slights, often you imagine slights when they were never intended that way.

That affects your frame. It can make you come off as a very negative person.

You may disagree with me now (you're early 20s), but you'll start to see the light as you approach 30.

There's a reason male sexual value peaks when he hits his late 20s. It's not due to forehead wrinkles.

You are a bit more "seasoned."

You still have that male aggression....But it's way in the background.

That comes off as an aura that women find attractive.

[soup]

Also flakes matter less and less when pump up the size of your Rolodex.

I'm a poet and i don't know it.

[Giovonny]

No.

I get laid MORE because I have self respect..

I see a cute girl, I must approach her! Why? Because I have self respect.

I go to the gym, I bust my ass! Why? Because I have self respect.

I wanted 18 and 19 year olds, I worked hard to get them! Why? Because I have self respect.

I respect myself enough to go after what I want.

Respecting myself is why I am on this forum today.

I wanted more out of life. I knew I could do better. I knew I could get young, college girls.

I respected myself enough to try. I respected myself enough to believe that it was possible. Respecting myself is why I never gave up! Respecting myself is why I worked my ass off!

Respecting myself allowed me to make my dreams a reality.

*****

In terms of "calling girls out" for bad behavior..

I do it, occasionally. But, honestly, I don't encounter too much "bad behavior" from girls.

I game young, college girls during the day time. They are usually very sweet and naive.

[Sonsowey]

I have cut girls off for flaking behavior, who I may have fucked.

Like a girl I got dome from the second date but just wouldnt fuck. She set up another date, flaked, and then kept talking like she wanted to meet up again. I figured it wasnt worth the headache.

[soup]

It's a game, so everything you do- every action you take should be in the service of what you are trying to get out of the game.

For some people it's winning. Others just have fun messing around in it.

Figure out what you want from the game, and act accordingly. If your goal is to win a game, then everything you should do should be geared at winning. Calling out a girl doesn't really inherent meaning from this perspective because in some contexts it's good game and others it's anti-game.

You got to know when and where it's appropriate, and how to do it- tone of voice, etc.

[Travesty]

^ Samseau's comment is good. It isn't girls' fault the way they turned out they are incentivized to.

The better energy is put to subtley infusing red pill knowledge in friends around you and by voting with your feet and moving to girls that don't act that way.

People and girls included follow high value wherever it goes.

Shame is dead. You now just have to be the beacon other people recognize as better.

[Basil Ransom]

"Just remember that if you had grown up in her body, and with her experiences, you'd probably be the exact same bitch she is."

Just because someone was born a degenerate brute, it doesn't mean I have to tolerate their company. And just by virtue of being a member of this forum, you and I have demonstrated that we are not the average man or woman, nor need we sympathize with them.

"It's a game, so everything you do- every action you take should be in the service of what you are trying to get out of the game.

For some people it's winning. Others just have fun messing around in it."

I agree - the notch might be worth it to one guy but not to another because of what it takes to get it. Even if you're getting the notch, if you feel you're doing too much to get it you're ultimately losing.

Some things I've encountered lately:

A girl flaked on me twice and still wanted to meet, I told her she could make me dinner (or fuck off).
Another girl shamed me for saying I wanted more than just sex when she said the same exact thing, and told me to fuck off (her getting angry made me feel good ).
The girl I was seeing refused to learn to drive or take the bus to see me, and lived with her parents, and I was done doing 80% of the driving. Plus she wasnt paying for shit or cooking for me.

Another girl flaked on me today hours before the date, despite texting me for the past couple weeks. The shit goes on and on.

[party1981]

I have noticed this. In the other thread, I mentioned the Mormon girl. She got distant after I put my foot down about abortion, religion, etc. I raised my voice a little - she was being rude ("don't ever talk to me about abortion again").

She never looked at me the same again.

[All or Nothing]

(06-16-2014 07:33 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Some things I've encountered lately:

A girl flaked on me twice and still wanted to meet, I told her she could make me dinner (or fuck off).
Another girl shamed me for saying I wanted more than just sex when she said the same exact thing, and told me to fuck off (her getting angry made me feel good ).
The girl I was seeing refused to learn to drive or take the bus to see me, and lived with her parents, and I was done doing 80% of the driving. Plus she wasnt paying for shit or cooking for me.

Another girl flaked on me today hours before the date, despite texting me for the past couple weeks. The shit goes on and on.

I would not characterize this as disrespect. This is more like the layer of bullshit that exists between a man and sex when interacting with a woman.

The layer of BS is always going to be there and it comes down to you over whether or not you want to sift through it to get laid.

I will say that the dating market in America is collectively controlled by women, so this leads to an increase in the level of obstacles that exist on the pathway to sex. In addition to this, a lot of the women have either bland or masculine personalities which decreases the level of incentive a man would have in pursuing sex.

Still, as far as I see it, you only have a few options: proactively work to increase your tolerance level, move to a market that is more in men's favor, or have less sex.

I can speak from experience. My tolerance level is very very low. When presented with a challenge or obstacle on the way to sex, I walk away. It has led to me losing out on A LOT of sex over the past year and the only girls I ended up with were one's that opened their legs for me a few minutes after walking into the bedroom.

So personally, I believe that the best course of action is to work on building your patience and tolerance level if you have no plans on moving. The added benefit from working on this is increased mental resilience.

Either way, the choice is yours.

[From Vegas to Tokyo]

(06-16-2014 01:02 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Let's take flaking as an example.

A man sets a date for drinks with someone who he just wants to put his penis in. He doesn't really care about her or want to get married or make some lifelong connection. He's going out to get laid.

And the girl doesn't show up because something better comes up, or because she's bored, or maybe she feels fat, or maybe she had a bad day at work, or make she wants to stay home and pet her cat.

Isn't it a bit self-important to get fired up over that?

A lot of times we gotta ask, "Who the fuck are we to get mad over something like this?"

If I had an appointment for brain surgery and my doctor flaked, I'd be outraged - and deservedly so. I expect my lawyer to show up to court on time. If I had a trip planned with friends, I'd be pissed if they were late and we mmissed out flight.

But when someone you have no real connection with doesn't show up (or cancels) some casual interaction...What is the big deal?

As much as people chalk up 'dark triad' traits, especially sociopathy, in terms of managing flakes, a touch of empathy can go a long way.

Ask yourself "Given the social interaction I have had with her, if I were her, would I flake on me?". Often times, the answer is yes. If you don't lay the groundwork properly the first time you meet, or if you are dating online, you've got to expect a high level of flaking. Sure, if you orbit around for long enough, putting up with her shit, she might bang you in the end, but in my experience, while my 'hit rate' might be a touch lower, I'm banging a lot more girls since I'm not wasting my time trying to make something happen with a girl who I know I have a relatively low chance of making it work.

At the end of the day, game goes a long way, but it works way better in person than over the phone, and if you can't be compelling enough in person, your flake rate is going to go through the roof. A little bit of screening on your part when you first meet the girl can go a long way to saving you time dealing with flakes.

Ask yourself "Did our interaction end on a high point, or a low point?". If the answer is a high point, like making out in the club, banging at her place, a blowjob in the bathroom, etc., assuming that you haven't gotten in your own way since then by fucking up text game, she's probably not going to flake. If you sensed the interaction dying and just asked her for her number to close it off, you ended the interaction at a low point, and her chances of flaking are infinitely higher than if the interaction ended at a high point.

End your interactions at a high point, leave her wanting more. Your flake rates will likely fall.

[Thesoloist]

Once you take the "Pill", learn "Game" or "Self-improvement" whatever you wanna call it. There comes a point where you have to set boundaries for yourself on how you want other people to treat you not just women but men as well.

In the last two years I've kicked out more women from my apartment then I can count for being disrespectful or various other reasons. My time is precious and I don't like it to be fucked with. As I'm entering my 30's I can honestly say that pussy is not in the top 3 priority for me right now and this actually has made me a more focused and motivated person. Compare that to the thousands of approaches I've made the last few years and all the energy I spend chasing/smashing/losing my hair over these slores If I woulda used that same energy I could have million dollar business by now.

Do I enjoy witty banter with a girl who can be a bit sassy? of course but most of these girls are far from witty and confuse bitchyness as being sassy or "sarcasm" hence a lot of westernized girls attitudes turn me off especially the black ones

(06-16-2014 11:54 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

I'm starting to think that the sort of behavior that's rankling me is common among men too, I just don't notice it because I'm quick to extricate myself from men who pull that shit. Discussions on here can seem a little anti-woman because we're ignorant of the flaws of most American men, because they have little to offer us in the way of friendship so we avoid their company, whereas we'll give every young woman with a slim waist and a nice face a try.

It's a little like if a man started touching your face to provoke you, and you proceed to sock him in the face - and then everyone calls you a violent brute for starting a fight, when really it was the other dude who started shit, and you were just defending your dignity. I have never gotten into a physical fight as an adult, but I get into the verbal equivalent of these dustups.

I see the little passive aggressive bullshit encoded into the language of women or weak men, but if I call them out on it and dish it back, they'll say I'm overreacting, I'm incredibly rude, I'm being aggressive, etc. Eg, someone asks you "why do you put so much effort into cooking food? (in a derisive tone)" and I'd like to respond "well see, you are fat and that's a fate I'd like to avoid, plus I like to eat well." I grew up in an environment where there were no real bullies, but it was standard operating procedure to call out dudes like that without any real repercussions.

I encounter this most at work, where I'm forced into interacting with certain people I'd otherwise avoid.

HOLY CRAP

I thought I was the only one noticing this

Yeah it's getting waaaaaaaaay out of hand with men, I seriously only have a handful of guys who I can call my friends and most of them live in other states.

When I was fucked up and fat everyone was cool with it, started losing weight and become more assertive/dress better now I'm getting the

"He thinks he is better then everyone now...." crap

[Samseau]

(06-16-2014 07:33 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

"Just remember that if you had grown up in her body, and with her experiences, you'd probably be the exact same bitch she is."

Just because someone was born a degenerate brute, it doesn't mean I have to tolerate their company. And just by virtue of being a member of this forum, you and I have demonstrated that we are not the average man or woman, nor need we sympathize with them.

Don't sympathize - pity. Pity is the best emotion to handle broken women with. Pity avoids anger, keeps you above them, and allows you to see their flaws in a more humorous light since no one takes a pitiable person seriously.

Speaking from a position of anger or disgust:

Her: "Oh my god are we seriously going there?"
You: "Oh my god! Yep."

From a position of pity:

Her: "Oh my god are we seriously going there?"
You: "Like you had anything else better to do. "

I think your disgust for American women spills over into your game. I know because it's happened to me many times. I finally got over caring and realized there was nothing I could do about the situation other than to pity what is basically a perfectly good waste of a woman, which is the average American female.

Quote:

A girl flaked on me twice and still wanted to meet, I told her she could make me dinner (or fuck off).

I think here you acted from a position of anger or disgust. Instead of asking for her to make dinner why not just ask if she wanted to come over directly? Had you any pity, you could have at least given the girl a chance. Asking her to make dinner was too much. Sure it would have made you feel better, but that one extra step may have cost you a bang. And she still could have apologized through sex.

The way I see it, she never meant anything to my life, so it doesn't matter if I get respected or not. Feelings don't exist. They're just in my head. As long as my time or money isn't wasted then her symbolic actions toward me do not matter. You're just doing it for the bang, which is tangible unlike feelings.

Quote:

There's a reason male sexual value peaks when he hits his late 20s. It's not due to forehead wrinkles.

You are a bit more "seasoned."

You still have that male aggression....But it's way in the background.

That comes off as an aura that women find attractive.

This is right on the nose. As men age they relax and stop taking anything a woman says or does seriously. And a man in his late twenties is still in his physical peak while having finally developed his Game.