[Christian McQueen]

(07-01-2014 11:11 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I don't a have problem with fucking a lot of girls as long as the fucking is for fucking and not because you hate them and just trying to fuck them over. Understand the difference?

Men and women are different and are not equal but that does not mean they should not be treated with respect. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for women. Maybe it's because I have never really been fucked over by a woman. But I was taught to treat people like you would like to be treated and it doesn't matter if they are men or women.

Perhaps there is confusion due to communication through the interweb.

It seems like guys go through a cycle:

1. They are naive and accept women at face value and take them literally.

2. They get fucked over due to their lack of experience with women and then become bitter.

3. They discover game and either use it to 'get back at women', or they get over their bitterness and use game to interact with women while not making foolish decisions.

4. Most guys get through the bitter stage and come out on the other side more well-adjusted and move on.

5. Some guys don't and are always stuck in the bitter stage. This is unfortunate.

Based on the amount of hell I went through I statistically should have never come out of the bitter stage, however, I did.

I love women, perhaps too much, this is why I can look back at how I was wronged, learned from it and am a better man who can help others.

It's ironic, but looking back at my mistakes, I can't even be mad, because it made me who I am today. Like Kanye said, everything I did made me who I am today, so I can say, I am almost thankful I dealt with some bitchy women because it forced me to grow up and learn how to deal with them.

If anyone reading this is stuck in that bitter stage, read closely:

Your past does not determine your future. If you hang onto that bitterness you will only hurt yourself. The girl who 'hurt' me the most and almost drove me to suicide (the BPD girl) I can honestly say that if I ran into her on the street, I could acknowledge her with serenity and not feel a tinge of anger. Why is this?

Because I went through the stages of grief and came out much smarter and stronger.

When it comes to women the old saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is very true and once you get out of the bitterness stage you will feel a peace like you've never felt before.

An almost zen like state, because you can now accept women for who they are, not what you want them to be and you can handle them accordingly.

I also believe that age has something to do with this. Depending on when a man starts having sex and dating women will also determine when he goes through these stages.

I will say, that the best players are those who have had their 'heart broken', healed and use game to better their lives and handle women like a man and not a scorned schoolboy.

There's something about be broken down into dust and then rebuilding oneself independent of women that takes you to the next level.

Just my 2 cents and thinking out loud.

[KorbenDallas]

Nomad, I think the problem people are having with you, is that you come off thinking you are better than other people here.

I haven't gotten fucked over by a woman either. I've gotten rejected, dumped, standard stuff, but nothing too bad. That doesn't mean I can't empathize with guys who got divorce raped, falsely accused of rape, or other very serious wrongs that have happened to a lot of guys in the world.


You saying, "Well, girls have never screwed me, therefore I don't understand these misogynistic attitudes!" is very....baby boomer sounding.

Young guys have relatives who've been through the wringer, friends who have been falsely accused, and seen behavior you in your old age can't possibly dream about.


I pretty much agree with your outlook on women Nomad, but you don't really understand this crazy new world as an older man.


In the west, it truly is a brave new world out there. Maybe if you took the time to humbly learn from other guys with different experiences, it might potentially help you one day.

[Nomad77]

@Oz Let me give you an example. One guy I helped after he got better. Fucked seven girls in seven days just to see if he could do it. It wasn't about the sex. He actually didn't enjoy the sex with most of them. How many guys on here are trying to fuck a girl just to get a "flag"? I know a few. So while you might not know them I have first hand experience and in some cases I am helping them to do it.

Just because the women you have known have not been worthy in your eyes does not mean that has been my experience. In the end we are all products of our experiences. I have not walked in your shoes.

There will never be a time when there isn't people, both men and women, fucking other people over. For every man that is has been fucked over by a woman I know a woman that has been equally fucked over by a man. And yes, I am an arrogant SOB

[soup]

(07-01-2014 11:32 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Nomad, I think the problem people are having with you, is that you come off thinking you are better than other people here.

I haven't gotten fucked over by a woman either. I've gotten rejected, dumped, standard stuff, but nothing too bad. That doesn't mean I can't empathize with guys who got divorce raped, falsely accused of rape, or other very serious wrongs that have happened to a lot of guys in the world.


You saying, "Well, girls have never screwed me, therefore I don't understand these misogynistic attitudes!" is very....baby boomer sounding.

Young guys have relatives who've been through the wringer, friends who have been falsely accused, and seen behavior you in your old age can't possibly dream about.


I pretty much agree with your outlook on women Nomad, but you don't really understand this crazy new world as an older man.


In the west, it truly is a brave new world out there. Maybe if you took the time to humbly learn from other guys with different experiences, it might potentially help you one day.

I've seen baby boomers get hit with the bad shit it as well.

[Nomad77]

@McQueen I would say that was worth at least a buck, great stuff

[The Lizard of Oz]

Nomad: fucking a girl "just to get a flag" is not the same thing as fucking a girl because you hate her or are trying to fuck her over. Do you think it's the same?

Is there a particular problem with fucking a girl to get a flag? Are girls too sacred for that?

I don't see the need to add to the seemingly endless list of things that men are supposed to feel bad or guilty about.

[Nomad77]

@Oz When the fucking is no longer about fucking and about something else, like self-validation, I think it's a problem yes. But that's just my opinion and I don't go around on here shaming men for doing it. In my eyes that's no different than a girl that goes out with a guy she doesn't like just to get a free dinner or gifts from him.

[Big Country]

I think this thread can be accurately summed up in the phrases :"There is more than one way to skin a cat" and "To each their own".

The whole idea of Roosh's video was to explain that as long as certain variables remain unchanged, and the outcome is the same, then the enjoyment you get is decreased by degrees each and every time you do it. This isn't a detriment to the idea of notch-counting so much as it is a look at the rationale we use when getting women. One person can easily look at getting women as a form of validation and another can look at getting women as purely pleasurable.

In the end though, all that really matters is how an individual approaches it. As always, our own choices are often defined by: the actions of others, the environment we grew up in, and our base-line genetics. The goal it seems is to rid yourself of negativity that reduces your chance at happiness and by extension your quality of life. Women (and other people) should only make up a small fraction of that.

Also there is way too much hostility in the air for opposing viewpoints. We're all free thinking men who have come to conclusions in our own ways and it is highly unlikely a post will fundamentally change us. Sure we can pick up a new bit of information here and there, but wholesale change is nigh impossible.

[AnonymousBosch]

(07-01-2014 11:54 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Nomad: fucking a girl "just to get a flag" is not the same thing as fucking a girl because you hate her or are trying to fuck her over. Do you think it's the same?

Is there a particular problem with fucking a girl to get a flag? Are girls too sacred for that?

I don't see the need to add to the seemingly endless list of things that men are supposed to feel bad or guilty about.

I've had plenty of meaningful and meaningless sex, and don't really see one as morally superior or more innately-precious than the other. It's largely just people acting on animal urges, and we ascribe emotions depending on the context, including the phantom construct of who we wish our partner to be.

That sweet, precious girl you're 'making love' to will, one day, come into the bathroom as you're showering to take a shit, having a conversation with you the entire time.

Plenty of girls are chasing flags themselves. They have their own sexual agency, and, at least from my experience, see damn good at filtering out the true misogynists. If they don't want to risk their precious feelings being hurt, they can close their damn legs.

[kaotic]

(07-01-2014 11:30 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

4. Most guys get through the bitter stage and come out on the other side more well-adjusted and move on.

5. Some guys don't and are always stuck in the bitter stage. This is unfortunate.

THIS is the most important part of the pill/game stage.

I feel you on this McQueen the amount of hell I was put through should've left me bitter and jaded. Fortunately, I now enjoy women, the rush of meeting new women, and my eyes have been opened to a new world view.

[Nomad77]

I have to admit since I have never really been screwed over by a woman it's difficult for me to really relate. I can only imagine what it would feel it and I would imagine that it would not be a pleasant experience. I have no illusion that women can treat men badly BUT and this is a BIG BUT I also believe that no one can hurt us mentally. All mental pain is a product of our own making. When people do not act as we "expect" them to then we become disappointed. For example, when we complain about flaking girls it's based on our expectation that a girl should or will act in a certain way and when they do not we become disappointed.

All of our pain associated with relationships are the product of relationship models that are inherently flawed. They only work for very small minority of people and no one questions them to this day. Everyone just goes with the flow and then wonder why the shit doesn't work out. I do not use standard relationships models, never did.