[KorbenDallas]

Lol, why do people on the left always title their videos, "Conservatives heads explodes"?

Saudi Arabia has recently deported 1 million immigrants. 9 million left soon after, they didn't want to go through the same process.

Democrats and Republicans are generally anti-amnesty and for closing and protecting the border.

Being anti-immigration isn't being "wacist". American blacks and whites are both anti-immigration and their not "wacist". At RVF of all places I would think we could at least use the word racist in cases where it actually applies instead of harnessing our inner Rachel Maddows.

[ElJefe]

(06-11-2014 04:03 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Hispanics by and large are conservatives. They believe in hard work and strong family values. At least that is what I have seen from many of them. Hard workers and good family structure.

Keeping labor down is what elitists want. They run big business, and keeping labor down makes them more money and helps destroy their small business competition. Elitists are big govt. supports who know they can best keep labor down with a growing govt. to destroy small business.

Hispanics are under the enchantment of "Caudilloism"

Hispanics believe in strong-men and authoritism, less in the individual strength of ordinary yeomen in a Jeffersonian sense, which is the philosophical reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. self-reliant, intelligent, educated men, each one equally capable. This is very Anglo-Saxon and has its roots in the Germanic warrior culture, and it shines in the poetry of Beowulf and the Icelandic Sagas. The mottos of Latin American states put their faith in concepts like "order" and "progress" as if they were phenomena dependent on a strong government for momentum.

Hispanics are hard ass workers. I myself worked in a vineyard picking grapes with them. They are hospitable and funny.

But theirs is a different culture from that distinct Anglo-Saxon/Germanic version that lays at the root of what was American culture from 1620 to around now, and what the founding fathers understood our society to consist of (and hence how our institutions were designed). As the English-German heritage of America is replaced by a Latin or alternative heritage, it is clear so will other aspects of our political life. This need not necessarily be bad, but experience tells us it probably will be so from our perspective. Strong free markets and an absence of government intrusion requires that the people are able to govern and defend themselves. See Tocqueville.

All that is changing now. Demography is destiny.


[img]images/attachtypes/pdf.gif[/img]  Latin American Liberalism - mirage af Alvaro Vargas.pdf (Size: 103.65 KB / Downloads: 52)

I'd say the political culture of any ethnic group can be changed, but it requires assimilation.

The rate of assimilation is inversely proportional to the intensity of immigration, ie. no. of immigrants in a given area to total population, and rate of new arrivals, percentage of a social network of similar ethnicity to oneself, and cultural distance.

The more different the culture, the fewer immigrants you can handle at a time, the more important it is to not let the concentrate in any one area.

That's why China town is so distinctly different. Very different culture + many Chinese at once = ghetto.

It's what happened with the Irish and Italian immigrants and is why Chicago, New York, Boston and Providence are still renouned for their corrupt political class. And that assimilation only really began to work after a full stop on immigration, and these guys are still more corrupt than Scandinavian-Americans, German-Americans or English-Americans.

The US could perhaps handle 10 million Hispanics. Not 60 million. Not in a million years. We can barely handle 40 million African-Americans. And one reason why African_Americans are havign such a tough time of it is because they're not in high demand as farm hands, because Hispanics depress farm wages. The best scenario would be earning 40USD an hour as a farm hand in the US, which is possible due to high productivity, just not necessary due to high labor supply. It would be far less attractive to be a criminal if you could 8,000 dollars a month using your physical strength working outdoors.

[It_is_my_time]

(06-11-2014 05:19 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 04:03 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Hispanics by and large are conservatives. They believe in hard work and strong family values. At least that is what I have seen from many of them. Hard workers and good family structure.

Keeping labor down is what elitists want. They run big business, and keeping labor down makes them more money and helps destroy their small business competition. Elitists are big govt. supports who know they can best keep labor down with a growing govt. to destroy small business.

Hispanics are under the enchantment of "Caudilloism"

Hispanics believe in strong-men and authoritism, less in the individual strength of ordinary yeomen in a Jeffersonian sense, which is the philosophical reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. self-reliant, intelligent, educated men, each one equally capable. This is very Anglo-Saxon and has its roots in the Germanic warrior culture, and it shines in the poetry of Beowulf and the Icelandic Sagas. The mottos of Latin American states put their faith in concepts like "order" and "progress" as if they were phenomena dependent on a strong government for momentum.

Hispanics are hard ass workers. I myself worked in a vineyard picking grapes with them. They are hospitable and funny.

But theirs is a different culture from that distinct Anglo-Saxon/Germanic version that lays at the root of what was American culture from 1620 to around now, and what the founding fathers understood our society to consist of (and hence how our institutions were designed). As the English-German heritage of America is replaced by a Latin or alternative heritage, it is clear so will other aspects of our political life. This need not necessarily be bad, but experience tells us it probably will be so from our perspective. Strong free markets and an absence of government intrusion requires that the people are able to govern and defend themselves. See Tocqueville.

All that is changing now. Demography is destiny.



I'd say the political culture of any ethnic group can be changed, but it requires assimilation.

The rate of assimilation is inversely proportional to the intensity of immigration, ie. no. of immigrants in a given area to total population, and rate of new arrivals, percentage of a social network of similar ethnicity to oneself, and cultural distance.

The more different the culture, the fewer immigrants you can handle at a time, the more important it is to not let the concentrate in any one area.

That's why China town is so distinctly different. Very different culture + many Chinese at once = ghetto.

It's what happened with the Irish and Italian immigrants and is why Chicago, New York, Boston and Providence are still renouned for their corrupt political class. And that assimilation only really began to work after a full stop on immigration, and these guys are still more corrupt than Scandinavian-Americans, German-Americans or English-Americans.

The US could perhaps handle 10 million Hispanics. Not 60 million. Not in a million years. We can barely handle 40 million African-Americans. And one reason why African_Americans are havign such a tough time of it is because they're not in high demand as farm hands, because Hispanics depress farm wages. The best scenario would be earning 40USD an hour as a farm hand in the US, which is possible due to high productivity, just not necessary due to high labor supply. It would be far less attractive to be a criminal if you could 8,000 dollars a month using your physical strength working outdoors.

Very insightful post, I greatly appreciate it.

It is also depressing to read. Because if the USA does turn into another 3rd world socialist hellhole, and we are well on our way, but I didn't realize how close until reading your post, then men around the world will be shit out of luck.

Without a strong USA, the entire world will become violent. Forget bedding women, you will be fighting for survival daily, no matter where you live.

It is a damn shame to look at how great the USA was only 30 years ago. A man could easily get a good job, have a good faithful feminine sexy wife, and a couple of kids and raise them safely and securely. And the elitists pushing liberal feminism has destroyed all of that. The American dream, IMO, is now dead. And all of us will suffer, unless you are an elitist billionaire living above the fray.

[MidWest]

(06-11-2014 06:39 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 05:19 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 04:03 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Hispanics by and large are conservatives. They believe in hard work and strong family values. At least that is what I have seen from many of them. Hard workers and good family structure.

Keeping labor down is what elitists want. They run big business, and keeping labor down makes them more money and helps destroy their small business competition. Elitists are big govt. supports who know they can best keep labor down with a growing govt. to destroy small business.

Hispanics are under the enchantment of "Caudilloism"

Hispanics believe in strong-men and authoritism, less in the individual strength of ordinary yeomen in a Jeffersonian sense, which is the philosophical reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. self-reliant, intelligent, educated men, each one equally capable. This is very Anglo-Saxon and has its roots in the Germanic warrior culture, and it shines in the poetry of Beowulf and the Icelandic Sagas. The mottos of Latin American states put their faith in concepts like "order" and "progress" as if they were phenomena dependent on a strong government for momentum.

Hispanics are hard ass workers. I myself worked in a vineyard picking grapes with them. They are hospitable and funny.

But theirs is a different culture from that distinct Anglo-Saxon/Germanic version that lays at the root of what was American culture from 1620 to around now, and what the founding fathers understood our society to consist of (and hence how our institutions were designed). As the English-German heritage of America is replaced by a Latin or alternative heritage, it is clear so will other aspects of our political life. This need not necessarily be bad, but experience tells us it probably will be so from our perspective. Strong free markets and an absence of government intrusion requires that the people are able to govern and defend themselves. See Tocqueville.

All that is changing now. Demography is destiny.



I'd say the political culture of any ethnic group can be changed, but it requires assimilation.

The rate of assimilation is inversely proportional to the intensity of immigration, ie. no. of immigrants in a given area to total population, and rate of new arrivals, percentage of a social network of similar ethnicity to oneself, and cultural distance.

The more different the culture, the fewer immigrants you can handle at a time, the more important it is to not let the concentrate in any one area.

That's why China town is so distinctly different. Very different culture + many Chinese at once = ghetto.

It's what happened with the Irish and Italian immigrants and is why Chicago, New York, Boston and Providence are still renouned for their corrupt political class. And that assimilation only really began to work after a full stop on immigration, and these guys are still more corrupt than Scandinavian-Americans, German-Americans or English-Americans.

The US could perhaps handle 10 million Hispanics. Not 60 million. Not in a million years. We can barely handle 40 million African-Americans. And one reason why African_Americans are havign such a tough time of it is because they're not in high demand as farm hands, because Hispanics depress farm wages. The best scenario would be earning 40USD an hour as a farm hand in the US, which is possible due to high productivity, just not necessary due to high labor supply. It would be far less attractive to be a criminal if you could 8,000 dollars a month using your physical strength working outdoors.

It is also depressing to read. Because if the USA does turn into another 3rd world socialist hellhole,

Without a strong USA, the entire world will become violent.

See! This is what I'm trying to say! It's rhetoric like this that makes Hispanics vote Democrat or vote for who in their eyes is perceived as less racist.

So as a Hispanic American myself, how am I contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole???? I really want to hear this.

[DjembaDjemba]

Unfortunately if millions of blacks and Hispanics started voting for the Republicans, millions of people who share eljefe's view will be either forced to abandon the party or force a titanic struggle within it for what it represents.

The tea party has many good ideas I agree with, but too many in their fanbase hold biased views that makes it difficult to share the movement with others who don't look like them.

Luckily this hasn't happened on north side of the border yet.

[It_is_my_time]

(06-11-2014 01:36 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 06:39 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 05:19 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 04:03 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Hispanics by and large are conservatives. They believe in hard work and strong family values. At least that is what I have seen from many of them. Hard workers and good family structure.

Keeping labor down is what elitists want. They run big business, and keeping labor down makes them more money and helps destroy their small business competition. Elitists are big govt. supports who know they can best keep labor down with a growing govt. to destroy small business.

Hispanics are under the enchantment of "Caudilloism"

Hispanics believe in strong-men and authoritism, less in the individual strength of ordinary yeomen in a Jeffersonian sense, which is the philosophical reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. self-reliant, intelligent, educated men, each one equally capable. This is very Anglo-Saxon and has its roots in the Germanic warrior culture, and it shines in the poetry of Beowulf and the Icelandic Sagas. The mottos of Latin American states put their faith in concepts like "order" and "progress" as if they were phenomena dependent on a strong government for momentum.

Hispanics are hard ass workers. I myself worked in a vineyard picking grapes with them. They are hospitable and funny.

But theirs is a different culture from that distinct Anglo-Saxon/Germanic version that lays at the root of what was American culture from 1620 to around now, and what the founding fathers understood our society to consist of (and hence how our institutions were designed). As the English-German heritage of America is replaced by a Latin or alternative heritage, it is clear so will other aspects of our political life. This need not necessarily be bad, but experience tells us it probably will be so from our perspective. Strong free markets and an absence of government intrusion requires that the people are able to govern and defend themselves. See Tocqueville.

All that is changing now. Demography is destiny.



I'd say the political culture of any ethnic group can be changed, but it requires assimilation.

The rate of assimilation is inversely proportional to the intensity of immigration, ie. no. of immigrants in a given area to total population, and rate of new arrivals, percentage of a social network of similar ethnicity to oneself, and cultural distance.

The more different the culture, the fewer immigrants you can handle at a time, the more important it is to not let the concentrate in any one area.

That's why China town is so distinctly different. Very different culture + many Chinese at once = ghetto.

It's what happened with the Irish and Italian immigrants and is why Chicago, New York, Boston and Providence are still renouned for their corrupt political class. And that assimilation only really began to work after a full stop on immigration, and these guys are still more corrupt than Scandinavian-Americans, German-Americans or English-Americans.

The US could perhaps handle 10 million Hispanics. Not 60 million. Not in a million years. We can barely handle 40 million African-Americans. And one reason why African_Americans are havign such a tough time of it is because they're not in high demand as farm hands, because Hispanics depress farm wages. The best scenario would be earning 40USD an hour as a farm hand in the US, which is possible due to high productivity, just not necessary due to high labor supply. It would be far less attractive to be a criminal if you could 8,000 dollars a month using your physical strength working outdoors.

It is also depressing to read. Because if the USA does turn into another 3rd world socialist hellhole,

Without a strong USA, the entire world will become violent.

See! This is what I'm trying to say! It's rhetoric like this that makes Hispanics vote Democrat or vote for who in their eyes is perceived as less racist.

So as a Hispanic American myself, how am I contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole???? I really want to hear this.

My comment was based on ElJefe's observations. I do not necessarily agree or disagree with his observations, I was only following up that if his observations are correct then we are in serious trouble as a first world nation.

But if you vote for the Democrat Party, or the real name... Socialist Feminist Party, then you are most definitely contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole.

We cannot afford this spending. I'm not saying the Republicans have it all right, or they are even all that much better. But we simply cannot afford all this spending and waste of a giant federal govt. We are heading 100 MPH off the cliff to where Greece is today. The only way to stop it is to stop the spending and reduce the govt., the opposite of what the Democrats want.

[It_is_my_time]

(06-11-2014 01:40 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Unfortunately if millions of blacks and Hispanics started voting for the Republicans, millions of people who share eljefe's view will be either forced to abandon the party or force a titanic struggle within it for what it represents.

The tea party has many good ideas I agree with, but too many in their fanbase hold biased views that makes it difficult to share the movement with others who don't look like them.

Luckily this hasn't happened on north side of the border yet.

What views does the Tea Party hold that "makes it difficult to share the movement with others who don't look like them"?

[assman]

(06-11-2014 02:29 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

What views does the Tea Party hold that "makes it difficult to share the movement with others who don't look like them"?

I'm curious about this too. I'm not white, and vote for libertarian or Tea Party candidates when they are available.

I think the mainstream media propagandizing of the Tea Party as white racists has misled many people. Are there likely some white racists in the Tea Party? Sure (though I've never met a TP supporter that I thought was racist and I've met lots of them). There are also plenty of bigots (towards race, towards sex, towards religion, toward anything they don't approve of, etc.) in the Democratic Party.

So I should vote for societal suicide because there are a small minority of white racists among libertarians and Tea Party supporters?

[It_is_my_time]

(06-11-2014 02:47 PM)assman Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 02:29 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

What views does the Tea Party hold that "makes it difficult to share the movement with others who don't look like them"?

I'm curious about this too. I'm not white, and vote for libertarian or Tea Party candidates when they are available.

I think the mainstream media propagandizing of the Tea Party as white racists has misled many people. Are there likely some white racists in the Tea Party? Sure (though I've never met one that I thought was racist and I've met lots of them). There are also plenty of bigots (towards race, towards sex, towards religion, toward anything they don't approve of, etc.) in the Democratic Party.

So I should vote for societal suicide because there are a small minority of white racists among libertarians and Tea Party supporters?

I'm interested as well. I know lots of people who support the tea party. They come from all races/religions and back grounds.

The T.E.A. Party simply stands for "Taxed Enough Already". It has nothing to do with race.

Are there some racists in the T.E.A. Party? Probably. Are there racists in all political groups? Most likely. Calling the TEA Party "racists" because of a few wackos members would be like calling the Democrats racist for their strong support from the Black Panthers.

I don't think most Democrats are racists, but I think most of them are misguided and their thinking that more govt. will make their lives better is something they need to reconsider.

[ElJefe]

(06-11-2014 01:36 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

So as a Hispanic American myself, how am I contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole???? I really want to hear this.

As for the marginal effect you yourself generate... well, that depends. If you voted for Barry, well, that's one very obvious way.

Otherwise, you're probably not a very representative individual.

The fiscal impact of amnesty was calculated at 6.3 trillion dollars. That's not including any additional immigrants who come in as a result of amnesty.

As for legal hispanic immigrants, the problem is mostly confined to those who work for low wages. Since the sum of public goods they consume is a fixed number, whereas wage level depends on labor supply, the more immigrants, the lower wage levels, the harder it becomes to earn enough to make good the costs you impose on the government, for instance by having higher fertility, ie. more children in tax-payer funded school.

That in itself causes problems, because school quality usually gets worse as the number of Hispanic children increases. This is because of the low socio-economic background of most children, and the negative peer effects is enough for whites to take their children out. Then the whites must either move to a new district and pay for a huge mortgage, or leave the state all together. This is also a form of cost to society, because it is in essence a wealth transfer from those leaving bad neighborhoods to those who got lucky. Not really the American dream.

It might not be so bad if hispanics then trended to the overall national mean in terms of academic achievement. But they don't. Their PISA results are consistently below the national mean and well below that of whites (albeit better than blacks). This difference corresponds quite well to the already well-known difference in average IQ.

Unlike other immigrant groups, Hispanics fail to make much gains in academic achievement after the second generation.

Basically, they constitute a permanent underclass. They will always be "low-wage" workers in relative terms, and therefore they will be less likely to pay in taxes what they consume in public goods. This will not make society poorer per se (but could easily, and probably does, in other ways), because the economy is, as we know, dynamic, but it will pose a lot of challenges in several dimensions that frankly a lot of people (most people) would rather have been without had the FACTS been laid out to them before people started this crazy experiment called the 1965 immigration act.

Now, I am not saying YOU are like this. But YOU may not be representative. Coming to terms with a general truth (that Hispanics on average do worse) while taking note that this information per se says nothing about you personally is a useful intellectual exercise.

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-11-2014 01:36 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

See! This is what I'm trying to say! It's rhetoric like this that makes Hispanics vote Democrat or vote for who in their eyes is perceived as less racist.

So as a Hispanic American myself, how am I contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole???? I really want to hear this.

Once I had an elderly client who said "Those god damn Mexicans fucking shit up by voting for that socialist!"

Then she looked at me and realized what happened.

So she said "Oh not you honey. Them."

What does she mean by them? Who knows. I certainly know what she means by those mexicans and having to look at me to amend her comment.......

[Faust]

Quote:

Once I had an elderly client who said "Those god damn Mexicans fucking shit up by voting for that socialist!"
Then she looked at me and realized what happened.
So she said "Oh not you honey. Them."
What does she mean by them? Who knows.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume she meant the Mexicans who voted for the socialist.

[TonySandos]

I don't think it's fair that people who say things like that get racism implied upon them.

That's like saying it's impossible to know a classy, black person who makes their own way in life and also acknowledge that there are swathes of black people who would support a welfare increase regardless of the ulterior effects of that choice.


To put it another way; when a black friend tells me "white people are nasty because they don't use washcloths, but not you tony" I acknowledge the truthful assertion that it's popular for white people to not use washcloths, not 'I know what he really means by that!'.

[TonySandos]

(06-11-2014 06:36 PM)Faust Wrote:  

Quote:

Once I had an elderly client who said "Those god damn Mexicans fucking shit up by voting for that socialist!"
Then she looked at me and realized what happened.
So she said "Oh not you honey. Them."
What does she mean by them? Who knows.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume she meant the Mexicans who voted for the socialist.

It was almost a Nazi convention two months back, now we're being invaded by "what do you mean 'you people!'" sensitivities.

I'm starting to buy into this pendulum theory


Thanks for derailing and fucking up an entire thread Midwest. You didn't give any proof to a single racism charge that you continued to counter with

[MidWest]

(06-11-2014 06:39 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 06:36 PM)Faust Wrote:  

Quote:

Once I had an elderly client who said "Those god damn Mexicans fucking shit up by voting for that socialist!"
Then she looked at me and realized what happened.
So she said "Oh not you honey. Them."
What does she mean by them? Who knows.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume she meant the Mexicans who voted for the socialist.

It was almost a Nazi convention two months back, now we're being invaded by "what do you mean 'you people!'" sensitivities.

I'm starting to buy into this pendulum theory


Thanks for derailing and fucking up an entire thread Midwest. You didn't give any proof to a single racism charge that you continued to counter with

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? When someone says "YOU DAMN MEXICANS" they really mean it, how is that not racist?? Why else would someone say that? Then they look at Cattle and say "no, not you"?? Get the f'ck out of here with that!!!!

Trust me i've been there myself "Cattle" and I too have heard rhetoric by many whites against Hispanics and blacks while I'm present. I've heard it all, from making fun of Mexican immigrants working on the High School rooftops and yelling "la migra" to referring to a Mexican Spanish teacher as "F'cking Mexican" all of this in my presence. Since I'm a light skin Mexican many of my white partners in school and work don't realize I'm Hispanic and when they say greasy things like that I check there asses on the spot. And they usually respond with "Sorry, not you, you're cool" F'ck all that!

I'm sorry for derailing the thread, but this all ties into why I think Cantor lost. Cantor saw the reality with the growing demographic of Hispanics, and tried to advocate for immigration reform. Sadly, the district he represents are full of old white racists who gave him the door. It was inevitable.

[KorbenDallas]

lol Midwest.

I guess as a "minority" you feel that you're a protected class and righteous anger that a filthy white devil would dare cause you discomfort in the progressive, new, modern America.

Playing basketball as a white boy in urban America, I've heard it all. I've been stolen from, treated like shit because of how I look, and race taunted, among other things I don't want to discuss, but this is literally the first time I've ever discussed this on this forum and its to make a point. It hasn't made me hate all black people or hold it against them that I know they are generally extremely racist towards white people, especially when they don't think white people are around.

No country in the world lets anyone who can make it to its borders become a citizen. The fact is that all ethnic groups say racist things. But the immigration issue, is not racist. It just so happens the illegal immigrants are Hispanic. So yea, there is going to be some grumbling among the natives that our government isn't doing anything to protect the border.

And by the way, if you think white people are "wacist" concerning the immigration issue, you should hear what southern blacks have to say about illegal immigration. Trust me, its a lot worse.


The thing is, you believe opposing illegal immigration is racist because its your people who happen to be the illegal immigrants. Are anti-immigrant blacks in Africa racist for opposing the mass immigration of chinese settlers? No. They are defending their land from foreign invaders. Same in Europe with regards to Arabs immigrating in large numbers and refusing to assimilate.

The facts are the facts. Mexicans vote for the same failed policies as the places they are fleeing from. To be pro-amnesty is to be anti-traditional American values.


Mexico has an extremely strict immigration policy and its people routinely refer to whites as 'gringo' a derogatory term. I don't see you whining about Mexico's virulent racism and anti-white, anti-guatemalen immigration policy.


*Notice that according to Midwest all the people who voted for Brat are "old white racists" because they felt Brat would possibly get our government to enforce laws that are already on the books. So, according to Midwest, holding our government accountable for refusing to uphold the law is "racist". And notice how because he's heard white people say a few racist comments, he has a deep disgust for all white people who vote against his people politically and labels them all white racists.

Whose really the racist here?

[Faust]

Quote:

So as a Hispanic American myself, how am I contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole???? I really want to hear this.

Sure, I can probably clear that up if you're curious. Now, when I say "you", keep in mind that I don't mean you, individually. I don't know you, but if your hobbies include posting on a forum like this you're probably a pretty cool guy. For all I know, you may have 15 PhDs and your hobby might be curing cancer while developing nuclear fusion. So when I say "you" below, I mean "You, a completely average immigrant from Mexico or South America."


1.) Your presence here makes it harder for the people here to find a job, and if they do find a job, they're going to be paid less. There are times when having a lot of immigration is good for the economy; when you have a shortage of workers that can't be filled domestically. The US in 2014 does not have any shortage of low-skilled workers like you (With "you" again referring to the average Hispanic.) It has an absolute glut of them. One of the first things you learn in any economics class is that a person's wage is the price of their labor, and labor is a good like any other. It's subject to supply and demand. More immigrants means more workers, and more workers means lower wages and a higher unemployment rate. It has nothing to do with your race, we'd face the same problems from a sudden influx of Canadians, Irish, or Martians. But your coming here makes life demonstrably worse for American workers. And since you generally come here with no real skills, you're driving down wages for the other low-skill workers in the market: the poorest and most disadvantaged of us. I've got a fairly high skill job in obscure specialty, and I'm in no danger of losing it to competition. A guy who grew up on a farm in say, Akron, Ohio, whose family in the 5th percentile for income? A generation ago he could've done well enough to support a family on his own, and now both he and his wife have to work full time, and take government benefits on top of that. Some poor black kid in the inner city? A generation ago, he could've made enough to live manning the counter at the grocery store. Now he's probably on welfare, and maybe turning to drug dealing to supplement his income. There are a lot of reasons why that's happened, but some of the blame rests on you.

2.) A multicultural society is a distrustful one, with lower levels of civic involvement. In other words, your presence is causing a social breakdown across the United States, and it's having disastrous effects.. That's the finding of a liberal political scientist named Robert Putnam. In the 90s he came out with a book called "Bowling Alone", which documented a huge collapse in social trust and civic involvement that had occurred in the US across the past generation. I've got a copy, and it's huge. It's chapter after chapter detailing the horrible effects that a breakdown in social and community involvement has on a society. Increased crime. Increased corruption. Increased rates of depression. Increased rates of divorce. Hell, it even causes an increase in deadly heart attacks! The interesting thing about the book, though, is that when it came out, he had not the slightest idea what was causing this. There's at least a hundred and fifty pages devoted to examining every potential cause he could think of, and rejecting them all. Well, a few years ago, he finally found the answer, or at least, one of them: having a lot of people from another culture hanging out in your country is very bad for you. People are happiest in a monoculture, and they suffer badly when they're in a "diverse" environment. Before I go any further, I should point out that Putnam is a serious liberal; he met with President Clinton, President Obama likes to name-drop him, and he held off publishing his findings for 6 years because they offended his sensibilities. So no trying to write this off by saying he's a racist tea-partier.
From the wiki I linked, if you're a white person living in an area with a lot of Hispanics, you're likely to suffer the following:

Lower confidence in local government, local leaders and the local news media.
Lower political efficacy – that is, confidence in one's own influence.
Lower frequency of registering to vote, but more interest and knowledge about politics and more participation in protest marches and social reform groups.
Higher political advocacy, but lower expectations that it will bring about a desirable result.
Less expectation that others will cooperate to solve dilemmas of collective action (e.g., voluntary conservation to ease a water or energy shortage).
Less likelihood of working on a community project.
Less likelihood of giving to charity or volunteering.
Fewer close friends and confidants.
Less happiness and lower perceived quality of life.
More time spent watching television and more agreement that "television is my most important form of entertainment".


3.) You like to vote for socialists who turn your country into hellholes. If you're from Venezuela, for example, you may well have voted for a government which is so incompetently run they can't even keep their citizens supplied with TOILET PAPER. They're the worst of the lot, but none of the other countries are much more competently run. If you want to vote for the guys who haven't figured out how the whole toilet paper thing works, that's completely within your rights in your home country, but I'm sure you'll understand if we'd rather not have you voting here.



There are any number of other reasons, but I think that covers the big ones. Notice that none of the things I listed have the slightest bit to do with racism. They'd apply just as well to any other racial group.. It doesn't matter if Hispanics are smart, stupid, hard-working, or lazy. If you're Hispanic and you come to the United States, you're making things worse for the people who live here.

[MidWest]

(06-11-2014 06:08 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 01:36 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

So as a Hispanic American myself, how am I contributing to the US becoming a 3rd world socialist hellhole???? I really want to hear this.

As for the marginal effect you yourself generate... well, that depends. If you voted for Barry, well, that's one very obvious way.

Otherwise, you're probably not a very representative individual.

The fiscal impact of amnesty was calculated at 6.3 trillion dollars. That's not including any additional immigrants who come in as a result of amnesty.

As for legal hispanic immigrants, the problem is mostly confined to those who work for low wages. Since the sum of public goods they consume is a fixed number, whereas wage level depends on labor supply, the more immigrants, the lower wage levels, the harder it becomes to earn enough to make good the costs you impose on the government, for instance by having higher fertility, ie. more children in tax-payer funded school.

That in itself causes problems, because school quality usually gets worse as the number of Hispanic children increases. This is because of the low socio-economic background of most children, and the negative peer effects is enough for whites to take their children out. Then the whites must either move to a new district and pay for a huge mortgage, or leave the state all together. This is also a form of cost to society, because it is in essence a wealth transfer from those leaving bad neighborhoods to those who got lucky. Not really the American dream.

It might not be so bad if hispanics then trended to the overall national mean in terms of academic achievement. But they don't. Their PISA results are consistently below the national mean and well below that of whites (albeit better than blacks). This difference corresponds quite well to the already well-known difference in average IQ.

Unlike other immigrant groups, Hispanics fail to make much gains in academic achievement after the second generation.

Basically, they constitute a permanent underclass. They will always be "low-wage" workers in relative terms, and therefore they will be less likely to pay in taxes what they consume in public goods. This will not make society poorer per se (but could easily, and probably does, in other ways), because the economy is, as we know, dynamic, but it will pose a lot of challenges in several dimensions that frankly a lot of people (most people) would rather have been without had the FACTS been laid out to them before people started this crazy experiment called the 1965 immigration act.

Now, I am not saying YOU are like this. But YOU may not be representative. Coming to terms with a general truth (that Hispanics on average do worse) while taking note that this information per se says nothing about you personally is a useful intellectual exercise.

Please!! If the Hispanic community were its own country it would be the 10th largest economy in the world. They have a 1.4 trillion dollar buying power and our economy is becoming younger because the Hispanic community is younger. When your country is young, the more potential it has to succeed, immigrants are a bloodline for any country. And the statement that Hispanics somehow have a "lower IQ" than whites its so wrong on many levels that I can't begin to describe. It sounds like a statement made by a white supremacist back in the early 1900s.

About that number you have of the cost of legalizing immigrants at 6.3 trillion dollars. I read that article. Its written by the Heritage Foundation and at the same time I read in that same article that immigrants don't pay taxes which is farther from the truth. It is virtually impossible to live in America without paying taxes. Impossible! Thus the article negates the contributions of immigrants as a whole, as if immigrants take and give nothing in return back in return, which is false.

Hispanic owned businesses grew 44% in the last 10 years. 28% of all new businesses in America came from the Hispanic community, and according to study by the New American Economy explained that Hispanics are 3x more likely to create a business and add jobs than whites. Hispancs have added 650,000 new jobs every year in California alone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18...22670.html


http://www.renewoureconomy.org/wp-conten...-final.pdf

http://www.nationaljournal.com/thenextam...s-20120911


Also the notion that Hispanics are lower achieving and are generally only low wage workers is a huge overstatement on your part. Say that to the hundreds of thousands of our teachers, attorneys, entrepreneurs, doctors and small business owners in our thriving Hispanic communities in Miami, Chicago, California, New York, the SouthWest and all over America.

[TonySandos]

Midwest calm down. Stop offensively comparing other members to nazis, kkk and the likes because they disagree with you or have the honor of being the first person I ever pressed the report button on.


Your main fallacy is comparing legal immigrants to illegal ones.

Yes you can live in the USA without paying taxes. That's why they work under the table. No one can track your earnings if they don't have proof that you even exist from lacking job on paper and a birth certificate.

That's called keeping all your earnings without giving back

[Patriarch]

Any time I hear someone saying boundless immigration is good for our country, and that it is racist to say otherwise, I ask them to consider the following:

If millions of low-skill Americans poured into Mexico, refused to speak Spanish, refused to assimilate into Mexican society, etc. Would it have a net positive or negative effect on Mexico? Either way, this mass influx of Americans would change Mexican culture. I don't want citizens of another country to have to accommodate my people if they are too ignorant and parasitic to live by house rules, and I expect others to likewise not use my country as a halfway house. We should restore quotas on immigration a la early 1900's, but we won't because that would be racist.

How do you think Russia would react if millions of Chinese were pouring into eastern Siberia? I know some of us like to subscribe to the rule "don't attribute to malice what can be explained through incompetence," but here's another aspect of the argument to consider- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)

The concept of "Greater Mexico" or the Mexican Reconquista. This isn't some tin-foil hat and fairy dust idea like the US still trying to annex Canada. This is a doctrine which is taught in both Mexican and American universities. Forget gender studies and all that bull shit. In the southwest, it's Latino Studies professors who present the greatest threat to the stability of our country. This is just modern day settler colonialism. What did countries do when they wanted land that was already settled by someone else, but they wanted to take it with minimal bloodshed? They sent settlers to that region, waves and waves of settlers, until their culture, language, religion, etc. became dominant over the native culture, and then the invading government simply took the land, which was theirs in everything but law.

I wouldn't be surprised if the American Southwest broke away into it's own country in the next fifty years. Less surprised than if conservative states declared independence. If protected groups want to secede, the government will call it "self-determination," as opposed to "treason" of right-leaning states.

[cooledcannon]

(06-11-2014 09:21 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Yes you can live in the USA without paying taxes. That's why they work under the table. No one can track your earnings if they don't have proof that you even exist from lacking job on paper and a birth certificate.

That's called keeping all your earnings without giving back

Giving back? To who? You already worked for the person who was paying you!

[TonySandos]

(06-11-2014 10:08 PM)cooledcannon Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:21 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Yes you can live in the USA without paying taxes. That's why they work under the table. No one can track your earnings if they don't have proof that you even exist from lacking job on paper and a birth certificate.

That's called keeping all your earnings without giving back

Giving back? To who? You already worked for the person who was paying you!

Public services and infrastructure costs that all vary dependent on local law.

[MidWest]

(06-11-2014 10:10 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 10:08 PM)cooledcannon Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:21 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Yes you can live in the USA without paying taxes. That's why they work under the table. No one can track your earnings if they don't have proof that you even exist from lacking job on paper and a birth certificate.

That's called keeping all your earnings without giving back

Giving back? To who? You already worked for the person who was paying you!

Public services and infrastructure costs that all vary dependent on local law.

This

http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-ille...pay-taxes/

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-11-2014 09:21 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Yes you can live in the USA without paying taxes. That's why they work under the table. No one can track your earnings if they don't have proof that you even exist from lacking job on paper and a birth certificate.

Have you worked without paying taxes?

If not, then one cannot really give an opinion without having any first hand experience.

[MidWest]

(06-11-2014 09:21 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

Midwest calm down. Stop offensively comparing other members to nazis, kkk and the likes because they disagree with you or have the honor of being the first person I ever pressed the report button on.


Your main fallacy is comparing legal immigrants to illegal ones.

Yes you can live in the USA without paying taxes. That's why they work under the table. No one can track your earnings if they don't have proof that you even exist from lacking job on paper and a birth certificate.

That's called keeping all your earnings without giving back

Why am I to believe otherwise? When I read statements like "Hispanics have lower IQ's than whites" and people agreeing on the forum that saying "Goddamn Mexicans" is no big deal and another guy saying that because of Hispanics we're becoming a "third world shit-hole" I take offense to that and I have to call it out, not because they disagree with me, but because of these types of statements.