[Chaos]

I'm with BB here. I'm not hating on marriage. Life is all about doing things what you want, if you really want it, then go for it. Actually I'm taking off my hat for guys who can do it and especially for guys who can handle it well and being satisfied with it.

Personally I couldn't. My head would expload.

Marry if you want, but come back here after a year and tell us how it went.
I predict you'll learn yourself a lesson or two.

[Great Ape]

Re: Visas.

Looks like there are various types of visas which might work.
If this still seems like a reasonable idea in a couple weeks, I'll go talk to an immigration lawyer, and I'll report back with my findings.

(06-04-2014 05:05 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Do you have any male friends, OP?

Yeah. None of them are in the same place as me, game-wise. One is naturally good with women. Two have no game but have a much more "blue pill" point of view and are content to wait until they naturally meet a girl through their social circle or work.
One is an Indian immigrant and is confident that his family network can set up him with a high-quality woman when he is ready.
I talk to my friends about other things.


For those of you telling me that I should go improve my game: I hear you. There's plenty of room for improvement.
But I haven't had much success with cold approaches so maybe it's not a good strategy for me.
Of my last two bangs, one was a girl I worked with, and the other was a girl my friend/coworker introduced me to.
Since the last time I got laid (a few months ago), I've done dozens of cold-approaches (mostly day game, e.g., coffee shops and public transit) and gone on a bunch of dates but none have panned out.

[robreke]

(06-04-2014 02:48 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Marriage? You don't need to marry a girl to get her to come back home with you. Are you nuts?

Just invite a random girl from the Philippines or wherever to get a visa and live with you for a few months or so. She will come. And when her visa runs out, you get a new girl to come live with you. If you have unlimited cash you can do this forever.

Then, after living with many different girls, you can decide if you want to tie the knot with any of them.

I heard it was really tough for Ukrainian women to get visas to the US. And I only want a white woman....not a fillipino or Asian. I would go there first and find one I liked. Anyone have experience with getting a Ukrainian girl to visit you in the states?

[pitt]

LISTEN

Do not bring any foreign girls to your country, this will be the biggest mistake you will ever make.

If your goal is just to get laid, you better off having sex with high quality escorts or travel to those locations whenever you have time off work and keep working on your game meanwhile.

Bringing a girl back to your country to spend some time with you will make you look like a fool in her eyes and probably she won't be a good girl. What good girl will just meet a foreign guy and decide to go spend sometime with him in his country?

She may even decide to make your life hell while she is in the US with you. Remember, the more you help them, the more ungrateful they become.

Don't do this man, for real.

[VincentVinturi]

@OP - 2 things:

1. I was living back in SFO and my game was perhaps at its sharpest back then.

I approached at least 10 girls daily. I had hundreds of numbers in my phone.

And you know what? I did not get laid nearly as much I would have liked out there.

As far as I could tell, the people who were really cleaning up in terms of pussy were my BJJ training partners who bounced/bartended in the clubs and dudes with huge social circles.

The logistics there are heinous, the attitude and feminism rating is off the fucking dial and despite the huge queer population, it's still a sausage fest out there.

I think what makes chasing American tail so uniquely daunting is the fact that even when you're horny as hell, every word out of an American girls mouth is like boner kryptonite. It's like you have to hurry up and fuck her before her disgusting personality completely turns you off. Apropos:



All this is to say, it's not that you don't have game necessarily but it's just that the odds are completely stacked against men in the States and in the bay area specifically unless they manage to carve out a clever pussy-getting strategy.

And even then, I don't know how worth it it is...


2. Since you're in business, I suggest you look at the potential marriage as a business transaction.

On the one hand you'll be (presumably) getting your needs met: sex, division of labor vis-a-vis cooking/cleaning/sex, etc. And on the other hand, your gal will have the house, the well-to-do hubby and maybe some kids.

I think that's generally a pretty good deal assuming:

A) there's no way this broad can ever get her hands on your assets, and...

B) you can fuck around with other girls on the quiet tip.

What complicates this otherwise good bargain is the fact that if you import a chick from EE or SEA to the states and especially to a hyperbolic, keep up with the Jones' environment like the Bay, your wife will probably lose her charm and sweetness sooner rather than later.

The commie/gay/feminist California laws will also probably enable her to completely rape you financially if the shizzle ever hits the fan (and if kids enter the picture).

And once she has her documents in order, will probably start looking for an upgrade in husband. Not that there's anything wrong with you but women are always looking for a better deal.

So if your main drive and passion is tech and seeing the fruits of your hard work ripen into a good living and making a small dent in the universe, it wouldn't be prudent to put it all at risk just for the sake of getting your girl situation squared away. Not to mention, even when you think you've got the wife situation locked down, you'll be dealing with whole another big ass can of worms. Good luck.

[anonymous123]

My $.02 on some of the stuff in Wayouts post:

"Being married would take pressure off of you in that area of life and you could concentrate on your career." - BS for a million different reasons, but here are a few:

1) Women are impatient. They have a hard time with the persistence it takes to build a career/business. If you aren't already well on your way, this could result in getting pressure/ultimatums from them that actually SLOWS your progress. You will need to become successful despite them.

2) Trying to save with a woman in the background is a motha$@$&!#. So you just stumbled across some cash that you wanted to save or invest? You know, to either take the pressure off or actually grow something? That money has already been earmarked.Every cent and then some. In the early days it will be furniture...but these bitches are insatiable. If you are talking about getting involved financially at 25 (like the OP), then good luck making a case at why you should have separate financial lives. Beat your chest all you want, but at 25 you will lose this one. Maybe not today, but soon enough. To me the reason why CMQ's rule of "don't marry before 30, then marry someone younger" is important is because of this. You stand no chance of not getting financially entangled at 25. When you are older and have some business success, I think many women understand they can't win this one and just might stand down (especially if younger). Understand?

3) The grass is always greener with women. So, you are focusing on your career/business and run across a rough year (or two). Guess what, this happens. Staying the course is what pays the dividends. A wife will put doubt in your mind and will try to convince you to completely uproot. It will be natural for you to have some doubts along the way and want to make a radical change. Go have a few beers with some buddies, and often they will hear you out and then tell you to simply stick it out. Bring up this doubt in front of your wife...and you are eventually going to get an earful about how you are jeopardizing both of you and that you should be polishing your resume immediately (or ditching business partner, switching industries, etc.). This is why I call BS on "focus on your career" being a bonus to getting married.

"Being married is not a death sentence! If thing don't work out - you can always divorce. Just protect your assets."

1) Maybe not a death sentence, but it can certainly destroy a business. It can put you in situations where you make rash decisions.

2) Divorce is not cheap and has very real consequences. Throw in kids and you really can't afford to be this nonchalant.

3) You don't stand a chance getting a prenuptial agreement in place at the age of 25 that is going to give protection that is worth a damn 10 years later. Especially if you've been successful. You will be viewed as Eboneezer Scrooge by the legal system when you have made some money and this poor little helpless weak lost kitten was just thrown out on the street...with mouths to feed and you obviously don't love your children. And when your own lawyer convinces you that it would just be easier to fork over a boatload of money and go make it again because at least you have shot and you agree...it will be that very same moment where the helpless kitten will say "hey, thanks for forking over 50%, my fair share, but you don't mind throwing in the art too do you?"

Sorry if this sounds like a rant...just trying to help here...

[Travesty]

San Francisco sucks especially if you don't have much natural game in you. The stories from inside and outside this forum are concrete.

Move to a different city or become location independent. If women are always on your mind this is very important to be happy.

Location and logisitics are a good 50%+ of success with women.

[Great Ape]

Thanks Vincent (Edit: and anonymous123), great perspective.

My conclusion now is that I definitely shouldn't jump into a marriage with a chick that I meet abroad. But I'll seriously consider bringing a girl back here to spend some time together in the States, and I can decide if marrying her is a reasonable option. (If not, I'll just tell her to go home, and I can always find a new chick the next year.)
There's the visa issue, but it's probably solvable since I'm willing to shell out some money.

[Deluge]

(06-04-2014 05:52 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

San Francisco sucks especially if you don't have much natural game in you. The stories from inside and outside this forum are concrete.

Move to a different city or become location independent. If women are always on your mind this is very important to be happy.

Location and logisitics are a good 50%+ of success with women.

It seems like he has no game, would moving to another American city really make a substantial difference? I think not; reverse fundamental attribution error.

How will OP even know how to tell whether a woman is marriage material or not? Also he might burn through tons of women he brings stateside who eventually become turned off by him.

OP is what pickup coaches call a "hard-case newbie". These are the guys who can approach hundreds of women like OP said he did and have nothing to show for it because they're not normal guys, often times they will have problems with social anxiety, being on the autism spectrum or problems with social interaction in general. At the end of day I don't see any happy ending for OP unless he fixes his social/game issues, whether he chooses to be a player or settle down after he does that is up to him. Doing anything else is merely addressing his symptoms (loneliness, involuntary celibacy) and not his actual problem.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-04-2014 02:33 AM)Great Ape Wrote:  

Would I be content with getting married and seeing the same person every day when I come home?
She'll probably want to have kids--am I ready to have kids?
Is my wife going to want to split up after I bring her over here, since I don't have a good track record of keeping women's interest?
So I have a lot of doubts, but my current overwhelming frustration makes me seriously consider this option anyway.
What do you think?

Before you go Rodgers on us, or get banhammered, ask yourself this question

"What will having a woman in my life mean to me?"

The end of loneliness?
A willing cum receptacle that's better than my Fleshlight?
Finally someone I can love?
Finally someone that loves me?

WIA

[Brodiaga]

(06-04-2014 10:36 AM)pitt Wrote:  

LISTEN

Do not bring any foreign girls to your country, this will be the biggest mistake you will ever make.

If your goal is just to get laid, you better off having sex with high quality escorts or travel to those locations whenever you have time off work and keep working on your game meanwhile.

Bringing a girl back to your country to spend some time with you will make you look like a fool in her eyes and probably she won't be a good girl. What good girl will just meet a foreign guy and decide to go spend sometime with him in his country?

She may even decide to make your life hell while she is in the US with you. Remember, the more you help them, the more ungrateful they become.

Don't do this man, for real.

Why not? If a girl is well off and can get a visa to visit you, why not have her come over? A friend of mine had a girl from Moscow visit him for a couple of weeks. 2 weeks of no strings attached sex with a reasonably hot girl for a guy who generally has trouble getting laid with the kind of girls he likes. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Another friend met a Russian girl who was already in the US learning English and living in a dorm room. She moved to his place and spent a few months there before she came back to Russia. A hot girl, about 15 years his junior.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-04-2014 04:17 AM)jariel Wrote:  

Game for the most part is some shit guys learn about so that they can go out and get girlfriends and have relationships. I'm not sure when, but at some point it became about diving into as many pussies as possible, and everyone in the community, including guys who really don't get pussy themselves, is trying to push guys in that direction, even guys who can't live that life nor really want to.

Lemme offer a different narrative.

Camp #1 - the AFC's

When I got into the game, most guys who were talking about it could get a date. They had girlfriends at one point. Most of them weren't virgins.

But dating some chick from your Social Studies class is very different than walking into a night club and taking a hot chick home.

That's the dream.

Walk in, looking smooth, bouncer gives you the nod, you and your boys walk through the crowd like Kings, girls pointing at you and whispering to one another.

These first set of guys wanted to be able to meet those kinda girls and know what to say and do.

Camp #2 - WBAFC's

Somewhere along the line, guys who didn't have that base level of how to socialize with people got involved in game. These guys would be ecstatic with ANY girlfriend.

The pick up jargon was
- Average Frustrated Chump
- Way Below Average Frustrated Chump

If you ever read candid interviews of pick up instructors, you'd find that most instructors realized that they were getting a lot of guys from the Elliot Rodgers pool, and not a lot of regular guys.

The George Sodini types need therapy, counseling, and probably behavior modification classes. (Or a nice swift kick in the ass and out of their comfortable first world lives....)

Nowadays, I can't call it. Maybe the internet has made it hard for a young man to find ANY girl to go out on a date with. I dont' believe it, but stranger things have happened.

WIA

[Captain Gh]

Fallowing on the WIA post, did you try to pay for some professional coaching since you view that you're gaming efforts did not get you the results that you thought that you deserved?

Happy that you listened to us and forgot about the plan of getting married. One of my best friend who's not into gaming always said that you need to go through your womanizing days before you even consider getting married.

[csmass]

(06-04-2014 02:33 AM)Great Ape Wrote:  

I'm 25 years old, and I've done the basics.
I've read about game for the last five years, I've approached hundreds of women in coffee shops, run game at bars, tried online dating sites.
I'm in good shape, and I wear well-fitting clothing.

On the other hand, I'm socially awkward, I don't put people at ease, I don't make girls laugh.
I live in the SF Bay area and plan to stay here because my career in technology is my main passion in life, and I need to be here now for my career.

I've had almost zero success with women since I moved to the SF Bay area four years ago.
I can get dates occasionally, but they don't lead to sex or relationships.
I didn't have much success previously when I was in high school and college; the little success I've had has been short lived and with really low-quality girls.
I really want a woman and it's driving me crazy.

Last winter I spent two weeks in the Philippines.
(Also spent a week in Thailand--had a good time there, but the Philippines was on a different level.)
It probably won't surprise most of you that girls loved me in the Philippines.
There was one girl who I met on the beach one evening. I spent the next week with her and it was wonderful. Best, prettiest, sweetest girlfriend I've ever had. I briefly forgot that I ever had any trouble with women.
I also had no trouble lining up dates and getting laid through a dating site (DIA) while I was staying in Manila.

Anyway, I'm sick of running game here in California. I'm sick of spending so much effort thinking about women, only to be disappointed. It's a distraction from the things I want to be thinking about; my work, my goals, and the things that only I can do in this world.

So I'm thinking of traveling somewhere for a couple months (luckily that's possible with my current work situation) and trying to meet a girl to marry.
Obviously that's a big and crazy thing to do with my life, and I have a lot of doubts.
Would I be content with getting married and seeing the same person every day when I come home?
She'll probably want to have kids--am I ready to have kids?
Is my wife going to want to split up after I bring her over here, since I don't have a good track record of keeping women's interest?
So I have a lot of doubts, but my current overwhelming frustration makes me seriously consider this option anyway.
What do you think?

I am in the same boat, except I am in Seattle. I can't pull shit here, but I can go up to BC and pull 9's that model for car magazines. How the hell does that make any sense? I can pull fatties in Seattle or Models in BC. This makes me question wtf is wrong with the hamsters up here. Anyone else up in Seattle, if so what are you experiencing? Outside of bars, there really isn't shit for game to be had unless I lost track of all the hotspots.


If this keeps up, I am going to have to move to a city with more/better women. I can't keep spending money each weekend to go bang models, though I certainly love how kinky they are, but have little desire to spend money to travel for poon as even the hottest of poon is still attatched to a woman and I don't see any reason why my city should be any different than Vancouver BC.

[Nomad77]

I feel for you guys and I completely understand. This is why I keep saying it's rough out there for the majority of guys. But you will have to get very lucky for her not to change and become Americanized if you bring her here. You want to make your money and go live in Manila.

[csmass]

OP I meant to reply to your post earlier, but I couldn't help myself by comparing how you and I are running into similar issues in the Northwest/Westcoast.

OP, save up, learn to become ruthless and as masculine as possible. I was in your shoes not too long ago. I'm 29 now, but when I was 21ish I was quite the creampuff. I was scrawny and weak and pale and the only girls I got were asian girls. Now I'm fit, active, and cocky. You also have to learn to put people at ease. It's as easy as asking a simple question about someone that's non-intrusive, or a simple head tilt and soft smile when listening. Also, don't say you have trouble with girls or you will constantly have trouble with girls. Your train of thought dominates how you act and present yourself.

[Cobra]

Don't get married out of frustration or because someone or something (society, culture) is compelling you. Both bad reasons and I see that you're already being trapped by both.

You shouldn't be questioning if she will 'leave you' once she gets here. That means you care too much. Be ready to move on even if you do get married. The latter thought process gives you strong frame that works wonders.

And you don't just give up game after marriage. I use game in marriage and it's absolutely necessary.

[Nolecbo]

(06-04-2014 07:34 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 10:36 AM)pitt Wrote:  

LISTEN

Do not bring any foreign girls to your country, this will be the biggest mistake you will ever make.

If your goal is just to get laid, you better off having sex with high quality escorts or travel to those locations whenever you have time off work and keep working on your game meanwhile.

Bringing a girl back to your country to spend some time with you will make you look like a fool in her eyes and probably she won't be a good girl. What good girl will just meet a foreign guy and decide to go spend sometime with him in his country?

She may even decide to make your life hell while she is in the US with you. Remember, the more you help them, the more ungrateful they become.

Don't do this man, for real.

Why not? If a girl is well off and can get a visa to visit you, why not have her come over? A friend of mine had a girl from Moscow visit him for a couple of weeks. 2 weeks of no strings attached sex with a reasonably hot girl for a guy who generally has trouble getting laid with the kind of girls he likes. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Another friend met a Russian girl who was already in the US learning English and living in a dorm room. She moved to his place and spent a few months there before she came back to Russia. A hot girl, about 15 years his junior.

This is a really interesting debate. Does anyone have any firsthand experience doing this - meeting a girl online, then bringing her over?

[MdWanderer]

(06-04-2014 09:55 PM)csmass Wrote:  

I am in the same boat, except I am in Seattle. I can't pull shit here, but I can go up to BC and pull 9's that model for car magazines. How the hell does that make any sense? I can pull fatties in Seattle or Models in BC. This makes me question wtf is wrong with the hamsters up here. Anyone else up in Seattle, if so what are you experiencing? Outside of bars, there really isn't shit for game to be had unless I lost track of all the hotspots.

I live in Seattle too, so I know what you mean. My last girlfriend I had was two years ago when I lived briefly in San Diego. My roommate who is tall and really good with women can't pull there either unless it's a chick from another part of the country.

You can pull in Seattle but higher levels of game and passing shit tests is a must especially when dealing with the locals.

[Blunt]

Just be careful about what kind of visa you invite a girl over on. Girls have entire forums dedicated to finding a way to get permanent status without getting married to you (ie false DV claim).

[csmass]

(06-04-2014 10:40 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 09:55 PM)csmass Wrote:  

I am in the same boat, except I am in Seattle. I can't pull shit here, but I can go up to BC and pull 9's that model for car magazines. How the hell does that make any sense? I can pull fatties in Seattle or Models in BC. This makes me question wtf is wrong with the hamsters up here. Anyone else up in Seattle, if so what are you experiencing? Outside of bars, there really isn't shit for game to be had unless I lost track of all the hotspots.

I live in Seattle too, so I know what you mean. My last girlfriend I had was two years ago when I lived briefly in San Diego. My roommate who is tall and really good with women can't pull there either unless it's a chick from another part of the country.

You can pull in Seattle but higher levels of game and passing shit tests is a must especially when dealing with the locals.

That's what I don't get. I know 6' guys that are killers everywhere except here. I'm fairly certain this city's women are holding out for beta $$$ that aren't techies, as I see tons of beta dudes with some nice girls. Of course, this is feminist central too, so that explains a lot. Hell my friend is married to one, poor fella has to ask permission for everything he does in life.

Oh well, back to BC I go to let off some steam. Good to hear of other guys in Seattle experiencing the same shit.

[Vitriol]

(06-04-2014 05:16 AM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

In fact, you need game even more in a LTR to keep her around. If you don't think so, then good luck.

I just had a post about this in another thread a couple weeks ago. It's actually harder to keep a woman around without any major problems than it is to keep everything casual and short term. A lot of guys don't realize how much game you need to keep a relationship or marriage from turning to shit.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-35883-...#pid724979

[JWLZG]

OP -- I can relate to you in many ways. I'm the same age as you, have discovered game under 2 years ago and got into it just under a year, worked on developing myself, used to present with awkwardness/shyness/social anxiety issues.

I haven't approached "hundreds of women" yet, but saying that you've done so but are still "socially awkward, I don't put people at ease, I don't make girls laugh" brings up yet another red flag.

If you really have tried hundreds of times and failed each of those times, I'd concur that that says something about your game, or presentation. And it's going to require something more radical than travel to address that.

I'd definitely push you towards some sort of more direct action -- counselling or some other social skills workshop might push you towards the frame you want.

Travel definitely helped my game, although I didn't realise that at the start -- I was looking at more holistic terms development-wise. But looking back, I'd say that it's only a factor of the solution. Are you looking to travel in advancement of work/study goals? If so, by all means put that on the cards. While I haven't done so yet, I can still conclude that travel for the end goal of marrying up and bringing home a submissive EE/Asian bird isn't going to magically solve your game issues.

Figure out what you want partner-wise first.

If you're still set on taking back Filipina girl, there's no shortage of them and they're not going to run away. And I'm pretty sure they won't undercut the need for game.

[Tytalus]

OP:

I think you need to work on your game, because clearly despite doing tons of reading, nothing is working out very well for you. After 4 years this should not be the case.

Also, married women need good LTR game from their man, not just player/good date game to get a lay.

I recommend looking up athol kay's books at his site:

marriedmansexlife.com

For a red pill look and advice for married men.

[Celtic]

Be careful with this. A few years back I wasn't having success with women, thought along the same lines you did, and went to the Philippines with the intention of marrying her. I thought I found my future wife, but then on one of the trips I got access to her e-mail and found out she was cheating.

I was lucky to find out. I broke up with her, went back to focusing on self-improvement, and with time I was able to turn my luck around with women in the United States. It could have been bad though, I can't imagine how humiliated I would be if I brought a girl here for marriage and then she divorced me after I got a green card.

I know there are a lot of good girls in the Philippines, but there and in many other cultures there is a culture of scamming western men. Enough women there have been successful in getting payments and green cards, the women there talk to each other, and so it has gotten out there in their culture that seducing and then leaving American men is a good way of getting $.

These women who scam have game of their own and can trap experienced men and fool them into thinking they love him- if you aren't experienced, it will be even harder for you to tell. Keep in mind if you use online dating, it will be more likely the girl you meet is a scammer.

My advice would be that you avoid marriage for now, and that you focus on self-improvement. You are really young and if you try to keep bettering yourself, stay healthy, make more friends, make money, your luck with women will improve.

If you do decide to try to marry a foreign girl and bring her here, your first goal will need to be determining if she is genuine or if she wants a green card. I wouldn't marry her without dating at least a year and making at four trips to her country, and at some point getting access to her phone or e-mail, so that you can make sure she is actually into you.

I really wouldn't bother with marriage now- just keep travelling and smashing in more places.