[cardguy]

To be fair - it took me about a year before I realised that!

[Vroom]

(05-07-2014 10:40 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

^Not even close.

How is it not?

Quote:

Fuck muscles when you have Elvis level Fame + $200,000,000.00+ in the bank.

"Fuck maintaining a slim feminine figure when you can cook a good roast dinner and are a nice person"

[Cr33pin]

(05-07-2014 05:02 PM)pitt Wrote:  

But gotta give props to Justin Bieber..he is a white kid with game (not sure if the internet is making things way easier for him but fuck it, he is doing his thing).

[Excelsior]

(05-07-2014 09:24 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Excelsior, to claim that there is an objective standard about something is not the same as to claim that there is universal agreement. Indeed, the majority of a given ethnic group, or even the majority of all men, could rank a certain female higher than another and they could be wrong. Therefore, to point out (quite correctly) that different groups have somewhat different preferences does not prove that beauty is subjective, or only if you think that a majority vote is the sole decision criterion.

Beauty is, as I noted, not entirely subjective. It is merely more subjective than your thesis allows. While it is possible to set a somewhat objective standard for what men find attractive (ex: youth, waist-to-hip ratio, smooth skin, etc), fine tuning it to the level you are doing here (creating a "universal standard" for what is an 8 or 9, claiming that there is an objective universal "assignment/ranking" via which all women can be objectively compared, etc) is simply not possible. The fact that different groups have different preferences shows clearly that the objectivity of any "universal standard" of beauty if going to be somewhat limited. Subjectivity is inherent to this debate because of differences in mate preference among different men.

Quote:

The objective standard is not determined by any majority vote, whether of all men or of any particular ethnicity. It is determined, as always, by those men who have the best, deepest, most accurate, and most complete apprehension of the subject matter (these are also not always or necessarily the acknowledged "experts", by the way). Pussy is no different in that regard.

The objective standard is determined by biology insofar as male preference for youth and a host of fertility cues go. Any notion of an "objective standard" that goes beyond this level of scrutiny is not determined by anything, because it doesn't exist. Standards vary by group and by individual - one society's 9.5 could be another society's 7, and vice versa. One individual's 6 could be another man's 7 or 8. The processes through which these numbers were generated are all valid - they differ due to subjective factors.

As for your experts, I don't know who these men are, nor am I aware of any objective process through which they were deemed to possess the "most complete" apprehension of the subject matter". What I do know is that men have some variation with regard to what they find most appealing, and these variations are generally equally valid.

Quote:

I believe that Yovanna is objectively an 8, and Candice is objectively a 9+, for all sorts of reasons.

This is not an objective statement. You believe (an inherently subjective act) that Candice is a 9 "for all sorts of (subjective) reasons".
I believe that both Yovanna and Candice are 9s, and have my own subjective reasons for doing so. We're both right.

Quote:

I could be wrong about this,

No, you couldn't. You've expressed a subjective opinion - there is no right or wrong there.
As I noted above, an "objective standard" for beauty exists insofar as it governs very general preferences between men for fertility cues, youth and a handful of other things. The existence of this standard indicates to us that both of these women are objectively attractive - one could not objectively consider them anything less than reasonably above average (let's call that a 7/10 at a minimum).
Beyond this, you're in subjective territory. You call Yovanna an 8, but the man who calls her a 7 o a 9.5 is no less correct than you are. Candice is your 9, and perhaps an 8 to another man. You're both right.

Quote:

Someone would have to convince me that I'm wrong by pointing out things I missed about one or both girls. It's happened to me (not often) that someone changed my mind about a girl's ranking by convincing me that I had misranked her because of a specific blind spot on my part.

I think you're taking this a little too seriously. Nobody should need to convince you of anything - your opinion is yours. You can debate with others who differ for shits and giggles if you'd like, but at the end of the day there is no right or wrong between your calling Candice a 9.5 and the other guy calling her an 8. You evaluation of a given girl is based on how you perceive here in concert with the subjective preferences you have. If you have a natural affinity for tall, blue-eyed, nordic blondes and tend to favor a thinner body type absent a very thick lower half, nobody is going to be able to convince you to rate a short, dark, thick latina ahead of Candice. And that's ok.

(05-07-2014 10:41 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Here is a good way to characterize the serious beauties -- the absolute elite, of whom Candice happens to be one, and all the other females discussed in this thread are not (even if some of them, like Yovanna, are extremely hot and desirable).

A serious beauty is a female that most men would be intimidated by if they see her in person, solely because of her appearance. And this is not exactly the sort of intimidation that a beta male might experience in the face of any attractive woman -- it's different in kind. There is something about the very highest level female beauty that is experienced in person as forbidding and almost terrible. It is also true that the great beauties rarely smile.

The most luscious sexual beauties are completely different -- they are never intimidating in that exact way (they may psychologically intimidate a beta, but that is a different matter). The best sexual beauties tend to cluster in the 8-9 range, never truly exceeding that 9 ceiling.

This is a nice subjective analysis that I'm sure works well for you and a host of other men in characterizing what you consider to be "serious beauties". It is valid, but no more valid than those that do not have the same women in their own "absolute elite" category that you do.

Quote:

Another point that allows you to recognize the great beauties is that they are never under any circumstances called "hot", "pretty" or "cute" -- none of these words would ever occur to one. They are never called a "smokeshow" by anyone. They are only and always called beautiful.

Many men refer to women they consider "elite" as "hot", "fine", "bangin", "smokeshows", among other references. Candice Swanepoel is regularly described in such terms online and in public. The propensity to describe a given woman's physical appearance using only a single term, "beautiful", cannot be used as an objective means with which to tease out some sort of strict objective standard of beauty (in this case, apparently, the kind of standard that "objectively" separates the 8.5s and 9s from the "9+s").

This is a very subjective opinion. It is your subjective opinion, and it is valid...but it is still an opinion.

[Christian McQueen]

@Vroom:

Because JB is in-shape, he's just not jacked.

The dude is young and he probably has a high metabolism. I was a HARD gainer until around 21yo. Before then I did everything in my power and while shredded, wasn't muscular per se.

If he was a fat fuck, then I could see your point, but he's not and is technically in shape.

Odds are he'll start to bulk up in a couple of years, then he'll be jacked and be worth $300 million and all can be happy.

[soup]

(05-07-2014 10:41 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Here is a good way to characterize the serious beauties -- the absolute elite, of whom Candice happens to be one, and all the other females discussed in this thread are not (even if some of them, like Yovanna, are extremely hot and desirable).

A serious beauty is a female that most men would be intimidated by if they see her in person, solely because of her appearance. And this is not exactly the sort of intimidation that a beta male might experience in the face of any attractive woman -- it's different in kind. There is something about the very highest level female beauty that is experienced in person as forbidding and almost terrible. It is also true that the great beauties rarely smile.

The most luscious sexual beauties are completely different -- they are never intimidating in that exact way (they may psychologically intimidate a beta, but that is a different matter). The best sexual beauties tend to cluster in the 8-9 range, never truly exceeding that 9 ceiling.

Another point that allows you to recognize the great beauties is that they are never under any circumstances called "hot", "pretty" or "cute" -- none of these words would ever occur to one. They are never called a "smokeshow" by anyone. They are only and always called beautiful.

Here is another example of a serious beauty (Bridget Hall). It's almost as if there is a difference in kind that is evenly distributed through every part of a girl like this. The merest hint of a smile in her face is about as much as one sees in the real deal serious beauties.

I agree that Bridget here has a finer face despite blemishes in skin.

Why is it intimidating?

The answer is very simple I believe: behind that intense concentrated beauty is a great amount conflict and death in the story of her ancestery..

Think about how much effort went into to making that face exist.

Thousands of years of men striving and killing each other to get the highest quality. She represents probably the latest and possibly the greatest iteration of those efforts.

The point to take away from all of this is that beauty is NOT random.

There's no way.

It has been cultivated.

Beauty is intentional. It's an expression that connects the present with distant past.

[Beyond Borders]

Honestly, if anyone doesn't think a kid that rolls like this...



...could pull hot 18-year-old American women even without fame, they are in some hard-core denial.

I don't know anything about his personality because I don't watch TV that runs his shit, but I imagine any kid who has achieved what he has and had the same experiences is also pretty charismatic.

Add in that he's partying, doing drugs, and getting in trouble (all shit women are drawn to), I think blaming his success with women strictly on fame is a stretch.

Would he be banging women of the same caliber?

Most probably not. But the kid would most likely be getting some damn decent tail.

You may not like him, but not liking guys that women do is not unheard of.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Beiber fan. I wouldn't even be able to pick out one of his songs.

But I see no reason to make him an open-field day for hating (at least in the woman dept).

Where I come from, a kid that fit and rocking this style, with good looks thrown in, would be kicking back at a party, rolling blunts and juggling some very sexy young birds.

[Vroom]

I wasn't actually ripping on him, becasue I saw a photo of him a few months back and thought he was starting to look a bit more muscular. But he's certainly still a little guy, and it does look a little funny that his missus is taller than him.

Still, just because he's getting nice pussy is no reason to put him on a pedestal and insulate him from criticism - success with women doesn't equal being a leader in the world of men. If Bieber and 100 random dudes were stranded on a desert island, their previous lives nothing but a memory, I reckon he'd be pretty close to the bottom of the pecking order.

Without a doubt I'm envious of the position he's in, with top-shelf young pussy on tap and all the money I could ever spend, but no way would I actually want to be him - There's a fuck of a lot about him to sneer at.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Nah sneer at him all you want.

I'm not pedestalizing anyone in this world, let alone this kid.

I just think it's kind of silly when guys insinuate he has no game, as some have done throughout this thread.

His game may not exist if he hadn't been dealt the cards he was, but from what I can see, he does have game.

Always passing it off as fame game is limited thinking, in my opinion. I think any youngster who developed a similar style and persona could improve their success with bitches.

Not that I advise it. Trying too hard - as he seems to be doing in an effort to overcompensate for his previous image - has a danger of leading you down the wrong path too.

Criticism is always perfectly fine, and he's a prime target. But ignoring that he is doing some things right is just denial.

As for the girls being taller, meh. I've seen plenty of short guys with tall, good-looking women. To me it just reflects better on him favorably - I never see it a reason to smirk or down on him.

[soup]

(05-07-2014 11:48 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

@Vroom:

Because JB is in-shape, he's just not jacked.

The dude is young and he probably has a high metabolism. I was a HARD gainer until around 21yo. Before then I did everything in my power and while shredded, wasn't muscular per se.

If he was a fat fuck, then I could see your point, but he's not and is technically in shape.

Odds are he'll start to bulk up in a couple of years, then he'll be jacked and be worth $300 million and all can be happy.

Clearly, Vroom doesn't understand the power of fame.

When you are famous, famous to the point where you have Slash from Guns n Roses commenting on the ridiculous amount of access to pussy you have, it doesn't matter how jacked you are.

Justin Bieber is a king. He's operating on a different level than you, Vroom.

Don't be jealous. Part of Redpill is recognizing the truth of the situation. You complaining about Justin Bieber's physique strikes me as an attempt to get validation from the guys on the forum more than anything else.

It's not trolling per se (I hope).. I've seen this kind of thing with other guys here.. it's more of a way to get a little ego boost shot. Maybe that will help you when you go out and game.

I think that if you recognize what you are doing, and own your shit, you will be coming from a stronger space.

[Sourcecode]

No one has posted a picture of them with a chick that rivals JB's yet?

I guess this thread can be locked

[DWF]

That girl is about a 7-8 at best. The drool fest is a bit puzzling to me. We seem to have a lot of thirsty brothers here, but I shouldn't be surprised, given the kind of women folks would bang in the "Would You Hit It?" thread. She's a 20 compared some of those hideous creatures.

It's also amusing seeing the butthurt from Christian McQueen for those who don't find the girl super good looking. Why are you so thin-skinned man? Must everyone agree with everything you say and worship you? Grow up and stop being such a bitch!

As for hotter examples, well, no one even comes close to a young Sophia Vergara, this picture is when she was 25-26, I believe:

[soup]

(05-07-2014 04:45 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  

What about this girl that Bieber also banged? she's Hungarian

I'd have to see her body, but, so far, this girl looks more appealing to me than Bieber's perrito in the OP

[DWF]

And in terms of white girls, here's an example of someone hotter:

[Beyond Borders]

(05-08-2014 12:10 AM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

No one has posted a picture of them with a chick that rivals JB's yet?

I guess this thread can be locked

Now, what, Sourcecode?

[soup]

(05-07-2014 04:48 PM)OMYG Wrote:  

There no point to bash others for their personal preference.

Don't bash others, but pointing out why a girl isn't perfect shouldn't be taken as an insult by the guys who like her.

[DWF]

One more:

[soup]

(05-08-2014 12:31 AM)DWF Wrote:  

And in terms of white girls, here's an example of someone hotter:

Disagree. This blond doesn't have the same sexual energy as the Latina. Kind of boring looking. She's definitely a hot piece of trim, but in comparison to the OP, her face looks a little chubby.

[soup]

(05-08-2014 12:32 AM)DWF Wrote:  

One more:

This is more like it. If we are going to knit-pick, I'd say her nose is kind of funky. Looks Polish.

Nevertheless, I'd still impregnate.

[Beyond Borders]

(05-08-2014 12:27 AM)DWF Wrote:  

It's also amusing seeing the butthurt from Christian McQueen for those who don't find the girl super good looking. Why are you so thin-skinned man? Must everyone agree with everything you say and worship you? Grow up and stop being such a bitch!

[soup]

(05-08-2014 12:27 AM)DWF Wrote:  

That girl is about a 7-8 at best. The drool fest is a bit puzzling to me. We seem to have a lot of thirsty brothers here, but I shouldn't be surprised, given the kind of women folks would bang in the "Would You Hit It?" thread. She's a 20 compared some of those hideous creatures.

It's also amusing seeing the butthurt from Christian McQueen for those who don't find the girl super good looking. Why are you so thin-skinned man? Must everyone agree with everything you say and worship you? Grow up and stop being such a bitch!

As for hotter examples, well, no one even comes close to a young Sophia Vergara, this picture is when she was 25-26, I believe:

Why are you calling members here "bitch" ?

[void]

Bieber can be proud that at least 50% of the RVF board jerked off to his girlfriend.
In SMV, bieber probably has the SMV of the whole board combined x 9000

[Christian McQueen]

@DWF:

I never got rustled about members having different tastes, I merely pointed out that his Fame + Money = More Pussy than muscles without money and fame.

Enjoy your time on the forum while it lasts.

[OMYG]

(05-08-2014 12:32 AM)soup Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 04:48 PM)OMYG Wrote:  

There no point to bash others for their personal preference.

Don't bash others, but pointing out why a girl isn't perfect shouldn't be taken as an insult by the guys who like her.

Couldn't agree with you more, some disagreements here were getting out of hand.

[Vroom]

(05-08-2014 12:09 AM)soup Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 11:48 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

@Vroom:

Because JB is in-shape, he's just not jacked.

The dude is young and he probably has a high metabolism. I was a HARD gainer until around 21yo. Before then I did everything in my power and while shredded, wasn't muscular per se.

If he was a fat fuck, then I could see your point, but he's not and is technically in shape.

Odds are he'll start to bulk up in a couple of years, then he'll be jacked and be worth $300 million and all can be happy.

Clearly, Vroom doesn't understand the power of fame.

When you are famous, famous to the point where you have Slash from Guns n Roses commenting on the ridiculous amount of access to pussy you have, it doesn't matter how jacked you are.

Justin Bieber is a king. He's operating on a different level than you, Vroom.

Don't be jealous. Part of Redpill is recognizing the truth of the situation. You complaining about Justin Bieber's physique strikes me as an attempt to get validation from the guys on the forum more than anything else.
It's not trolling per se (I hope).. I've seen this kind of thing with other guys here.. it's more of a way to get a little ego boost shot. Maybe that will help you when you go out and game.

I think that if you recognize what you are doing, and own your shit, you will be coming from a stronger space.

Except that I didn't complain about his physique at all. In fact, the only comment I made on it was more of a compliment.

But, if some dudes do want to rip on him for it, they don't need to "shut up" as you put it - it's valid. Like it or not, Size grants status among men, as does age - neither of which Bieber has.
Proficiency or accomplishments in pertinent fields is another status booster, but his is debatable - singing isn't generally viewed highly among men, but he does have plenty of time and resources to branch out into whatever he wants, but until such time, he'll keep getting sneered at.