[Travesty]

Good to know the board is passionate about pussy either way.

8.5 no make up, made up 9. Maybe at 20 she will be a straight 9+.

Many times the hot neighborhood girl look face wise over that chiseled, angular, super model look makes me want to bang them much more badly, though objectively the neighborhood girl face is a more common look. I think it looks sweeter and more feminine and less "goddess".

[Seth_Rose]

(05-07-2014 03:24 AM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Pretty sure that's Ellen DeGeneres on the right...

[Excelsior]

(05-07-2014 03:41 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

Fair point, but in all the places I've been, I see bodies like Candice's on billboards.

Yes, but that's not proof of "universal attractiveness" (again, assume we're defining a universally attractive individual as one who is nothing less than ideal everywhere). That is proof that one standard of beauty gets more play than others for whatever reason (ex: those who maintain one standard have more buying power and influence than those who maintain another).

Quote:

The big ass look is something I've only seen in NA, and I know the same fetish exists in Latin America even though I haven't been there.

Africa, Latin America, The Caribbean, and NA (not all of NA - European descendants in North America are generally less into the big butt thing than their black or latino counterparts).

Quote:

I don't think you'll find people everywhere who consider the Latina "generally attractive."

I don't think there are many men anywhere who, if asked, would decline to smash when given the opportunity. That is what I mean by "generally attractive".

(05-07-2014 04:22 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

I thought group think and shaming was reserved for feminists...yet it seems a lot of guys are dissing Dave R for expressing his preference and opinion. I also think the 'big butt' preference is a hugely American phenomena, and I for one echo Dave's preference.

I don't think anyone is saying Bieber's gf is 5/10 or anything, that would be silly. Surely. But if people here don't agree that she's a 9 or 10, then they don't deserve to be shamed for that.

Nobody has reacted to the notion that some may not consider Ventura a "9 or 10". They reacted to the notion that she's an unbangable 6, which was put forward in this thread.

[Excelsior]

(05-07-2014 03:47 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

@Excelsior, this may seem like a quibble but I have to disagree. I believe that there is an objective standard of beauty and that any female in the world can be compared to any other and assigned a number and a rank. Of course, there is allowance to be made for tastes and types, but that does not negate the existence of an objective standard.

I disagree. Men across regional, ethnic and racial boundaries do agree on a few things when it comes to female attractiveness (.7-.8 waist-to-hip ratio is ideal, youth is preferred, etc). They can generally agree on what passes the boner test and what doesn't. It is when you move beyond that basic agreement that things get difficult: men might all agree that a given girl is no lower than a 6 on a 10 scale (let's just use that number as a hypothetical cutoff for passing the sober boner test), but they're not all going to agree on which of the numbers above that ranking should apply to the girl in question. Some might call her a 6, others an 8, others still a 9. The answer you get depends on subjective preferences.

There are significant variances between groups when it comes to preferences. Let me use some photos and hypotheticials to illustrate this:





This girl (Maliah Michel) is widely considered physically elite in the African-American community. If you polled 10,000 random African-American men and asked them to rate here out of 10, you would get a lot of 8s, 9s and 10s.

Poll a similar number of East Asian or White American men, and you could expect a much larger number of 5s, 6s and 7s.

Ask all of these same men about Kate Upton and you'll get similar polarities. The African American men would not give her as many 8s, 9s, or 10s as their Asian and White American peers will. Why?





Upton has large breasts, but not a lot in the hips. African American (and, to a somewhat similar extent, Latino) men prefer larger hips and are more willing to compromise on breast size. This can also be seen manifested in the ideal measurmeents of models in different communities. Your ideal playboy centerfold (the kind of girls favored in suburban white communities) is something like a 36-25-34. Your ideal urban video vixen/hip-hop model (the ones generally favored in the black/hispanic communities) comes in at more like 34-26-45 (these are Michel's measurements).

A girl with the playboy measurements will never be a superstar in the urban community, even if she is considered generally attractive. She doesn't have the booty that men in that community want to see. Similarly, a girl with Michel's measurements has no chance at Playboy, as many of those readers will consider her hips to be far too large.

This is the kind of reality that makes it very difficult to do the kind of objective global ranking/comparison you talk about. You can compare any female to another female as you mentioned, but the business of assigning a number and a rank will not work objectively. The number/rank a girl gets will depend heavily on the highly subjective tastes of the men doing the ranking, and these vary by ethnicity, region and culture. Maliah Michel, for example, is going to get a MUCH higher rank among African-Americans than she will among Asian-Americans.

This is why I say there is no strict objective beauty standard. Again, you'll get guys to agree on what is very ugly and on what passes the boner test for the most part, but you'll have a hard time establishing universal 9s, 8s, etc.

Quote:

In this case, it is true that Candice is objectively better looking than Bieber's girl.

That is an opinion, and whether or not you agree is going to depend heavily on your individual preferences with regard to hip size, height, hair color, skin tone, etc. All of that makes this comparison highly subjective.
If you are someone who favors darker complexions, prefers more dramatic waist-to-hip ratios and does't put much of a premium on height, Yovanna Ventura (that's the latina's name, for the record) might be more attractive to you than Candace.

Quote:

Numerically, Candice is something like a 9.5, and Bieber's girl is an exact 8.

These are your subjective ratings.

Some guy somewhere thinks Ventura is 9.5, and Candace is an 8.5 (he's not into blondes and likes thickness). Some other guy thinks they're both 9.5s (he find a wide variety of women appealing). Some other guy thinks Candace is a 9.5 and Ventura is a 7 (he loves tall, trim blondes and thinks the Latina is too thick to be ideal for him, though he'd still smash). Meanwhile, some other guy rates Ventura a 6 he WNB and Candace a perfect 10 (he just doesn't like larger hips, but loves nordic features).

Like I said, subjective.

[qote]But is she on the same level as Candice? No, that is just a higher level. And this is not because CS is a light-skinned blonde.
[/quote]

A higher level in your opinion. And it wouldn't be wrong for you to base some of that opinion on the fact that Candace is a fair, blue-eyed blonde. Some men prefer that phenotype and give women who possess it more points than those who do not. This is natural - we all have preferences.

My point is to say that said preferences preclude any notion of hard objectivity with regard to the beauty standard you're talking about. There's some agreement, but not nearly enough to make the argument you're making. Far too much of male opinion with regard to female beauty is shaped by subjective factors for your hypothesis to really work.

[soup]

I think all the guys who are ripping on bieber for not being buff or whatever need to be quiet unless they have access to the pussy that he does.

Serious

[The Lizard of Oz]

Excelsior, to claim that there is an objective standard about something is not the same as to claim that there is universal agreement. Indeed, the majority of a given ethnic group, or even the majority of all men, could rank a certain female higher than another and they could be wrong. Therefore, to point out (quite correctly) that different groups have somewhat different preferences does not prove that beauty is subjective, or only if you think that a majority vote is the sole decision criterion.

Do you believe that in other aesthetic matters? Would you say that a work of art has to be well-liked by most people to be objectively superior? I would guess the answer is no. Then why believe it about pussy?

The objective standard is not determined by any majority vote, whether of all men or of any particular ethnicity. It is determined, as always, by those men who have the best, deepest, most accurate, and most complete apprehension of the subject matter (these are also not always or necessarily the acknowledged "experts", by the way). Pussy is no different in that regard.

I believe that Yovanna is objectively an 8, and Candice (why do you keep calling her "Candace" by the way) is objectively a 9+, for all sorts of reasons. I could be wrong about this, but that would be because of a failure of taste or apprehension on my part (which I think is pretty unlikely, but that is a different matter ). Someone would have to convince me that I'm wrong by pointing out things I missed about one or both girls. It's happened to me (not often) that someone changed my mind about a girl's ranking by convincing me that I had misranked her because of a specific blind spot on my part.

[Onto]

What's more fucked up is that he's prettier than her.

[presidentcarter]

(05-07-2014 09:32 PM)Onto Wrote:  

What's more fucked up is that he's prettier than her.

[pitt]

Excelsior now we are talking. Maliah Michel is a straight 9 in my book.

[Beyond Borders]

(05-07-2014 09:45 PM)pitt Wrote:  

Excelsior now we are talking. Maliah Michel is a straight 9 in my book.

There you have it. This simply blows my mind (no hate), so I'd say Excelsior is on to something.

It's official - to me at least; these "debates" will never get us anywhere.

[The Lizard of Oz]

This is a post that I made on a much earlier thread describing in general what I thought goes into the making of a serious beauty, a true 9.5. Given my choice of example in that post I'm nothing if not consistent.

(12-06-2013 02:24 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

It's not a big mystery.

Some of the same factors contribute to every aspect of female beauty, whether it's face, body, hair or anything else. Sufficiently high estrogen which controls secondary sexual characteristics everywhere -- nice tits, nice ass, nice quim, nice mouth, nice hair. Good skin which is the key of keys. Symmetry and proportion of development which tend to either be present throughout or not.

In true, serious beauties -- which are very rare -- this reaches a laughable level. Every single thing about such a girl is high quality -- the feet, the calves (often overlooked, but no serious beauty without perfect calves), the knees, the thighs, the crack of the ass, the asshole, the belly, the underarms, the slope of the shoulders, the fall of the hair.

I'm talking highest level beauties -- less than a handful on Athlone's 10 thread would qualify. This one is a good example:

[magellan]

(05-07-2014 09:54 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 09:45 PM)pitt Wrote:  

Excelsior now we are talking. Maliah Michel is a straight 9 in my book.

There you have it. This simply blows my mind (no hate), so I'd say Excelsior is on to something.

It's official - to me at least; these "debates" will never get us anywhere.

Haha. Yeah, I agree. She's not my type. Anyone calling this chick a 6 is out of his mind though, along with anyone claiming she doesn't pass a boner test. In my book, Candice is a 9.5 and Bieber's piece is an 8.5 in the making.

[Christian McQueen]

"I think all the guys who are ripping on bieber for not being buff or whatever need to be quiet unless they have access to the pussy that he does.

Serious"

^Agreed.

Fuck muscles when you have Elvis level Fame + $200,000,000.00+ in the bank.

[Quintus Curtius]

What can I add? Not much. Her photos speak for themselves.

She also seems to have the type of body that, with care, can keep looking good for a long time. I'd imagine her evolving into a svelte Eva Longoria type, well into her early 40s.

I just hope too much fame and limelight at that age doesn't ruin her.

[Seth_Rose]

Don't see anything wrong with ripping on Bieber. I give him mad props as not only is this girl sexy as hell, but he is uber-rich, a superstar and has millions of adoring fans.

BUT...so what if he has a cute girl on his arm? A friend of his and a man with similar net worth Floyd Mayweather apparently got cuckolded recently after buying a $10 million engagement ring. If a man who epitomizes alphaness has his wife get pregnant by another man than lord only knows what fate has in store for Justin Bieber.

I also find it ironic that a man who made his name by being effeminate is pulling tail. Again, not hating just an observation. I suppose rock bands like KISS did this back in the 70's with a. Ton of success, but that just doesn't seem like part of the culture today.

Or maybe I am wrong...if I am then please, in the words of GManifesto break it down for me because maybe I'm just too young to understand why I should pay homage to him.

Edit: OK I kind of get it...a guy with his fame and fortune has no need to worry about appearances as he will get hot ass regardless, but still he can improve himself beyond looking like a dyke

[Vroom]

(05-07-2014 10:16 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

"I think all the guys who are ripping on bieber for not being buff or whatever need to be quiet unless they have access to the pussy that he does.

Serious"

^Agreed.

Fuck muscles when you have Elvis level Fame + $200,000,000.00+ in the bank.

That's just like saying nobody should rip on a fat smelly bitch because she has a nice personality.

[Christian McQueen]

^Not even close.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Here is a good way to characterize the serious beauties -- the absolute elite, of whom Candice happens to be one, and all the other females discussed in this thread are not (even if some of them, like Yovanna, are extremely hot and desirable).

A serious beauty is a female that most men would be intimidated by if they see her in person, solely because of her appearance. And this is not exactly the sort of intimidation that a beta male might experience in the face of any attractive woman -- it's different in kind. There is something about the very highest level female beauty that is experienced in person as forbidding and almost terrible. It is also true that the great beauties rarely smile.

The most luscious sexual beauties are completely different -- they are never intimidating in that exact way (they may psychologically intimidate a beta, but that is a different matter). The best sexual beauties tend to cluster in the 8-9 range, never truly exceeding that 9 ceiling.

Another point that allows you to recognize the great beauties is that they are never under any circumstances called "hot", "pretty" or "cute" -- none of these words would ever occur to one. They are never called a "smokeshow" by anyone. They are only and always called beautiful.

Here is another example of a serious beauty (Bridget Hall). It's almost as if there is a difference in kind that is evenly distributed through every part of a girl like this. The merest hint of a smile in her face is about as much as one sees in the real deal serious beauties.

[kosko]

Bieber gonna need his body guards to go part-time on that ass. She would split baby Bieber in two once she fully grown out.

Dude ain't a boy no more. He's basically a man now, and he's been tryna be serious about the weights thing as side rumors swirling he's getting help with 'gear'.... So he might as well start packing on the density. He needs to take a page from fellow maple syrup kid Drake, as he bulked up a bit and it's helped his overall physique.

Dude looking like a chicken leg with USDA ink stamps all over. He needs them calories.

[cardguy]

@The Lizard Of Oz - you should check out my thread where I discuss the highest levels of female beauty. It contains some interesting quotes from much better writers than me...

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-25833.html

[The Lizard of Oz]

More Bridget:

[darklightdispatch]

(05-07-2014 08:57 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  





Upton has large breasts, but not a lot in the hips. African American (and, to a somewhat similar extent, Latino) men prefer larger hips and are more willing to compromise on breast size. This can also be seen manifested in the ideal measurmeents of models in different communities. Your ideal playboy centerfold (the kind of girls favored in suburban white communities) is something like a 36-25-34. Your ideal urban video vixen/hip-hop model (the ones generally favored in the black/hispanic communities) comes in at more like 34-26-45 (these are Michel's measurements).

Upton, at least going by those pics, is too fat to represent the White/European ideal. In general, while there are group differences in what's considered most attractive by men, they're not huge. A black man's 9/10 is still going to be very bangable to a white or asian guy, and vice versa. It's not like some cultures prefer fat, ugly, or old women.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Last one...

[TigerMandingo]

(05-07-2014 10:59 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

More Bridget:

Yea i guess shes 'beautiful' and whatnot, but that Latina still gets my dick harder.

[LeBeau]

(05-07-2014 11:13 PM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  

Upton, at least going by those pics, is too fat to represent the White/European ideal. In general, while there are group differences in what's considered most attractive by men, they're not huge. A black man's 9/10 is still going to be very bangable to a white or asian guy, and vice versa. It's not like some cultures prefer fat, ugly, or old women.

Little tip going forward (and for others reading this).

There's no need to quote a massive post, especially one with multiple posters and pictures, just to add a short comment.

Just hit reply then delete most of the contents of the quote box, and it will still be clear who you're writing about.