[Crackshot]

The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America

It is said to be China's biggest church and on Easter Sunday thousands of worshippers will flock to this Asian mega-temple to pledge their allegiance – not to the Communist Party, but to the Cross.

The 5,000-capacity Liushi church, which boasts more than twice as many seats as Westminster Abbey and a 206ft crucifix that can be seen for miles around, opened last year with one theologian declaring it a "miracle that such a small town was able to build such a grand church".

The £8 million building is also one of the most visible symbols of Communist China's breakneck conversion as it evolves into one of the largest Christian congregations on earth.

"It is a wonderful thing to be a follower of Jesus Christ. It gives us great confidence," beamed Jin Hongxin, a 40-year-old visitor who was admiring the golden cross above Liushi's altar in the lead up to Holy Week.

"If everyone in China believed in Jesus then we would have no more need for police stations. There would be no more bad people and therefore no more crime," she added.

Officially, the People's Republic of China is an atheist country but that is changing fast as many of its 1.3 billion citizens seek meaning and spiritual comfort that neither communism nor capitalism seem to have supplied.

Christian congregations in particular have skyrocketed since churches began reopening when Chairman Mao's death in 1976 signalled the end of the Cultural Revolution.

Less than four decades later, some believe China is now poised to become not just the world's number one economy but also its most numerous Christian nation.

"By my calculations China is destined to become the largest Christian country in the world very soon," said Fenggang Yang, a professor of sociology at Purdue University and author of Religion in China: Survival and Revival under Communist Rule.

"It is going to be less than a generation. Not many people are prepared for this dramatic change"


.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

[The Beast1]

It's ironic that the developing countries happen to have the largest Christian populations. Russia and China? Christianity flourishes where people are miserable.

[Uzisuicide]

This is the best news I've heard all day....

[Samseau]

(04-22-2014 11:14 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

It's ironic that the developing countries happen to have the largest Christian populations. Russia and China? Christianity flourishes where people are miserable.

It's not really ironic at all when you consider the spiritual reasons why people become Christians, and the historical reasons why people lose their faith in Christ. It's cyclical and observes a very strict pattern.

Poor people become Christians when they understand that there is more to life than money and status. Especially true of the rich who lose their money to random chance (like an economic crash or natural disaster) or criminals who commit violent crimes and land in prison.

Why? Because these people ultimately find themselves without anything and they realize how little the world cares about them.

But then they remember their family and friends. They remember the fun times they had watching sports with their buddies or playing a game with their sibling. They remember the simple pleasures in life. The pride they once had, the "pride that cometh before the fall," is lost as the world capriciously takes it away from them. For no amount of money or status is secure in this world as money has no loyalty. Neither can politics save you, as the sway of the masses can turn the most powerful men into outcasts overnight.

And when these poor souls finally realize that the idols they were once chasing were nothing more than mirages, what are they left with? Who will listen to their cries for help? Who can offer them light in the darkness?

This is when people find God. Because the truth was Christ never cared how rich or powerful you were. God loves you even if you're prison for committing great sins. Christ knows you better than you know yourself. And when He sees you in pain, He is the only being left that can help you overcome it.

And what are Christ's teachings? Love thy neighbor. Respect your family. Give expecting nothing thereof. Do not pray or boast in public. Stay humble. Make only as much money as you need. Do not merely pursue sex; instead find love with just one person. Please Christ and He will make you happier than all of the money in the world. It is only the poor who see the truth of this. Thus, "the meek shall inherit the earth."

This brings us to the other half of the religious cycle. Because the real irony is that if everyone follows Christ's teachings, then a nation will become strong and have true wealth even though material wealth was not their goal. For true wealth is not merely money, but having a community that loves and believes in each other. A nation built on Christ is a nation built on a solid foundation that lasts much longer than economic swings or political fortune.

And so Christian nations over time become extremely powerful in the economic sense we are accustomed to. Because Christian women focus on providing for their families and having many children, and because Christian men focus on providing for their children and not chasing new pussy all of the time, the irony is that a poor people who follow Christ will become extremely wealthy within a few hundred years. The population will be booming, demand will be high, jobs will be plentiful, and the armies will be full of fit, young men.

The children of this prosperity of course, do not understand religion or the need for it. Having want for nothing, it is this generation which forsakes the God which created them, find Him unnecessary and archaic. And as these spoiled brats squander the wealth of their parents and take their good fortune for granted, slowly communities slide into ruin or die outright. They either get conquered by their stronger and harder working cultures or they focus on exploiting their own communities as the wealth slowly dries up.

In addition to the decadence, the Churches themselves usually become corrupt as well. This is the story of the Catholic church, whose great successes only lead to extreme moral decay within the Church and abandonment by it's members. When the Russians turned to communism in 1917, they too were sick of their Orthodox Churches who hoarded money in conjunction with the equally corrupt Tsar. And as the Churches fall from power even more people become unbelievers as they conclude that religion must be bullshit.

However, since it was the faith which gave these communities success in the first place, eventually the unbelievers, both those in the Church and outside of the Church, kill the communities which spawned them, and the survivors of these disasters find themselves with nothing else to turn to... except God. And thus the cycle begins anew.

This cycle well documented in American history and is known as "The Great Awakenings." They were major forces in American history, both politically and culturally, as they helped to advance the beliefs in free speech and freedom of religion, as well as convert Blacks and other minorities to the Christian faith.

It is no surprise that former atheist regimes in Russia and China are turning to Christ in record numbers. I expect the coming economic and demographic crash in China to really force the Chinese people into some serious soul-searching.

[Wutang]

"In addition to the decadence, the Churches themselves usually become corrupt as well. This is the story of the Catholic church, whose great successes only lead to extreme moral decay within the Church and abandonment by it's members. When the Russians turned to communism in 1917, they too were sick of their Orthodox Churches who hoarded money in conjunction with the equally corrupt Tsar. And as the Churches fall from power even more people become unbelievers as they conclude that religion must be bullshit."

France is the perfect example of this. They were known as the "daughter of the church" and no where else was the church more opulent, wealthy, and also corrupt. Becoming a priest was one of the ways to achieve status and to add to your coffers and to join the ranks of the elite in France. And we all saw what happened during the French Revolution. During the Enlightment no where was atheism as fashionable as it was in France - hell in France they tried to create an atheistic religion from scratch called the Cult of Reason as a middle finger to the Catholic church.

[Samseau]

(04-22-2014 12:44 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

"In addition to the decadence, the Churches themselves usually become corrupt as well. This is the story of the Catholic church, whose great successes only lead to extreme moral decay within the Church and abandonment by it's members. When the Russians turned to communism in 1917, they too were sick of their Orthodox Churches who hoarded money in conjunction with the equally corrupt Tsar. And as the Churches fall from power even more people become unbelievers as they conclude that religion must be bullshit."

France is the perfect example of this. They were known as the "daughter of the church" and no where else was the church more opulent, wealthy, and also corrupt. Becoming a priest was one of the ways to achieve status and to add to your coffers and to join the ranks of the elite in France. And we all saw what happened during the French Revolution. During the Enlightment no where was atheism as fashionable as it was in France - hell in France they tried to create an atheistic religion from scratch called the Cult of Reason as a middle finger to the Catholic church.

Yes, those were justified reactions to the horrible corruption of the Church.

From a religious perspective, we would say that the Catholic Church lost God's favor and hence it was abandoned and destroyed.

[Sherman]

Both Communism and liberal Western churches are falling for the same reason. They are vacuous ideologies which don't provide any meaning or emotional support in an uncertain world. But it's interesting that millions of Chinese became prosperous before the rise of Christianity. Also, South Korea, which is a first world country has a large Christian population. So, it is more than just a palliative for poverty. Christianity has had the least success in Japan, which has a strong culture that wasn't damaged by Communism.

It was Benjamin Franklin who promoted George Whitefield and the Great Awakening through his printing press. Even though Franklin was a Deist, he knew that faith would benefit democracy and improve the economy of the country.

The Western elites, who seem to be most concerned about LGBT and the right of a man to hump another man, are depraved and their scientism is doomed to fail as a viable philosophy.

[DarkKing]

China already had a big native Christian movement back in the 19th century. It's known as the Taiping Rebellion. Hong Xiuquan said he saw God in a dream, declared himself the younger brother of Jesus and made the Bible be the subject of the civil service examination instead of the Confucian classics. A devastating war ensued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

[Bacchus]

A bit off topic, but images of Chinese Jesus really look odd.

[Wutang]

(04-22-2014 05:17 PM)DarkKing Wrote:  

China already had a big native Christian movement back in the 19th century. It's known as the Taiping Rebellion. Hong Xiuquan said he saw God in a dream, declared himself the younger brother of Jesus and made the Bible be the subject of the civil service examination instead of the Confucian classics. A devastating war ensued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

Hong was quite the player himself from what I read.

[Parlay44]

Christians have the "slave mind" as Muslims describe it. It's the perfect religion for emerging markets. It creates mindless worker drones that can be exploited and controlled by money.

Just dangle the prospect of a better life in front of dirt poor people and they'll work themselves to death.

[Sherman]

Quite the opposite of being slaves: (from the article)

"As a result, a close watch is still kept on churchgoers, and preachers are routinely monitored to ensure their sermons do not diverge from what the Party considers acceptable.

In Liushi church a closed circuit television camera hangs from the ceiling, directly in front of the lectern.

"They want the pastor to preach in a Communist way. They want to train people to practice in a Communist way," said the house-church preacher, who said state churches often shunned potentially subversive sections of the Bible. The Old Testament book in which the exiled Daniel refuses to obey orders to worship the king rather than his own god is seen as "very dangerous", the preacher added.

Such fears may not be entirely unwarranted. Christians' growing power was on show earlier this month when thousands flocked to defend a church in Wenzhou, a city known as the "Jerusalem of the East", after government threats to demolish it. Faced with the congregation's very public show of resistance, officials appear to have backed away from their plans, negotiating a compromise with church leaders."

[Sargon of Akkad]

(04-22-2014 06:05 PM)Bacchus Wrote:  

A bit off topic, but images of Chinese Jesus really look odd.

The irony of this statement is hillarious. If you think the blond, blue-eyed Jesus is any more accurate than this, you're forgetting which part of the world he actually came from, namely, the Middle East.

These are estimates by historians on what Jesus may have really looked like, based mostly on what is known about the appearance of most men in Judea at the time.





Europeans made a Middle Eastern Jew look European, while Chinese made him look Chinese. So what? You think Buddha looked anything like the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans depict him, either? He was from India.

[WalterBlack]

China will never be a "Christian" country. In terms of pure numbers, there will be a shitload of Christians but the population of China is so vast that it won't count for much. 150 million is only 10% of 1.5 billion.

[Sargon of Akkad]

^^ True, with China's population, even a small portion of the population can outnumber most other countries. Saying that a minority of Chinese Christians outnumbers Christians in the US doesn't mean that much. The number of Chinese Muslims probably outnumbers quite a few Arab nations as well. That doesn't make China a Muslim nation.

[WalterBlack]

(04-22-2014 09:20 PM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

^^ True, with China's population, even a small portion of the population can outnumber most other countries. Saying that a minority of Chinese Christians outnumbers Christians in the US doesn't mean that much. The number of Chinese Muslims probably outnumbers quite a few Arab nations as well. That doesn't make China a Muslim nation.

Same with India - India is number 2 or 3 in terms of Muslim population globally, and no way is it a Muslim country. There's more Pakistani Christians in Pakistan than there are Pakistani Muslims in UK!

[Yatagan]

(04-22-2014 09:12 PM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

These are estimates by historians on what Jesus may have really looked like, based mostly on what is known about the appearance of most men in Judea at the time.

I'm of European (Iberian) non-jewish extraction and that looks like it could be an older version of me.

[runsonmagic]

Russia is going to be the home of democracy and freedom.

China is going to be the home Christianity.

America is gonna be speaking Spanish.

I will be drinking under my desk.

[Bacchus]

(04-22-2014 09:12 PM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

The irony of this statement is hillarious. If you think the blond, blue-eyed Jesus is any more accurate than this, you're forgetting which part of the world he actually came from, namely, the Middle East.

These are estimates by historians on what Jesus may have really looked like, based mostly on what is known about the appearance of most men in Judea at the time.





Europeans made a Middle Eastern Jew look European, while Chinese made him look Chinese. So what? You think Buddha looked anything like the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans depict him, either? He was from India.

I never said that the image of the blond Jesus is the accurate one, only that seeing the Chinese version of Christ has the same effect on me as seeing a Chinese Col. Sanders.



Or to use one of your examples, a European Buddha.

Anyway, I actually agree with you that the historical Jesus probably looked like the earliest surviving depictions of him:

[Sargon of Akkad]

^^I'm not sure on the exact dates, but even the earliest depictions of Jesus were made hundreds of years after his death and would have looked nothing like the way the man would have looked.

At about 14:42 in the video below, you can see that the earliest Christian depictions of Jesus were merely symbols (like the "fish", etc.), and actual visual images of the man himself came much later. Even these were then borrowed from artistic depictions of Roman gods at the time. So there's no way of knowing from early Christian art what Jesus would have actually looked like.

[Feisbook Control]

Asian Christians are the most annoying fucking people on the planet. Because they often weren't raised with it (or when they were, it was in one of the more radical sects), they're like a kid with a new toy they have to show off to you. They've always got a story about how they were "saved". Occasionally, I get cornered by one of these clowns at a social engagement and they just have to tell me about Jesus, despite me growing up in a Christian family and going to a Christian private school where we had religious education once per week and a chapel service once per week, plus bigger services several times per year. Yeah, great. You want to tell me about Jesus. How about I tell you about Confucius? Or better yet, how about you fuck off?

The trouble with these people is you can't just tell them to fuck off because then everyone in the room will look at you like, "What's your problem?" Yet anything else only encourages these people. It's like one giant shit test dealing with these people. I've found that you have to just let them say their spiel (any interruptions cause them to start again from the beginning) until they move on to some other poor sap. It's that or you have to physically stand up and walk away from them (assuming they won't follow, which some do). I don't know whether they really are socially inept or whether they don't care and are going to plow on regardless. Very annoying though. If these are Christ's followers, then fuck Christ, honestly.

[L M McCoy]

Delete.

[kosko]

(04-22-2014 09:14 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

China will never be a "Christian" country. In terms of pure numbers, there will be a shitload of Christians but the population of China is so vast that it won't count for much. 150 million is only 10% of 1.5 billion.

Exactly. Which is why I take China articles with a grain of salt since they are just used to drum up content for sites and papers. China is the "biggest" in basically every category to due the sheer numbers but when you take a step back it's never truly that large and expansive as articles will state.

[Sherman]

Christianity was less than 10% of the population when it became the state religion of the Roman Empire. The numbers are important because it gives the Church power to expand and they can no longer be wiped out by the Communists like Falun Gong. It’s large enough that the Communist officials are starting to feel threatened. All it takes is for one Communist leader to convert and become the Chinese Constantine. It's Christianity's ability to convert that makes it an unpredictable game changer.

“China denies church ‘demolition campaign’ but says Christianity’s growth ‘excessive’”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...ssive.html

[Wutang]

(04-23-2014 01:09 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

Asian Christians are the most annoying fucking people on the planet. Because they often weren't raised with it (or when they were, it was in one of the more radical sects), they're like a kid with a new toy they have to show off to you. They've always got a story about how they were "saved". Occasionally, I get cornered by one of these clowns at a social engagement and they just have to tell me about Jesus, despite me growing up in a Christian family and going to a Christian private school where we had religious education once per week and a chapel service once per week, plus bigger services several times per year. Yeah, great. You want to tell me about Jesus. How about I tell you about Confucius? Or better yet, how about you fuck off?

The trouble with these people is you can't just tell them to fuck off because then everyone in the room will look at you like, "What's your problem?" Yet anything else only encourages these people. It's like one giant shit test dealing with these people. I've found that you have to just let them say their spiel (any interruptions cause them to start again from the beginning) until they move on to some other poor sap. It's that or you have to physically stand up and walk away from them (assuming they won't follow, which some do). I don't know whether they really are socially inept or whether they don't care and are going to plow on regardless. Very annoying though. If these are Christ's followers, then fuck Christ, honestly.

I saw that you're in Taiwan. I'm Taiwanese myself and it seems like everytime I go back there is more and more of a visible Christian presense there. Back in the 90s it was pretty much invisible but starting in around the beginning of the 2000s I noticed more and more house churches popping up. Now when I go back I see a Catholic church in my mom's old neighborhood that was never there before, a Christian channel (Good TV...they actually had an interview with Jeremy Lin and his mama lol), and when I go to bookstores in those multi-floor malls I always see Christian staionary, bookmarks, and the like.

Last time I checked the statistics less then 10% of the population in Taiwan is Christian but they seem to have a disporpotional amount of public visibility in comparison to their numbers. This might be serve as a predicition of what may happen in the future with mainland China, the overall Christian population will remain small but they will exert a large amount of influence over the country. In fact you already see a bit of this in the early 20 century: people such as Sun Yet Sen, Chiang Kai Shek, and the Soong family were all Christians and they played a decisive role in stirring the direction China took in the 20th century.