[The Father]

(11-28-2014 09:07 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

Thanks. It's my life. This community is important to me because it has helped me a great deal.

Me too.

[Travesty]

Millenials like myself definitely don't need to work as hard.

I have a passion for listening to music. I don't need to save for new albums. I have Spotify.

I want to watch something? I can pirate it. I don't need to save $ for going to the movies or DVDs even anymore. Hulu, Netflix etc al... cheap alternative.

Car culture isn't as big as it used to be. Sure having a cool car is still nice in high school or college but listening to my old man talk about the pride in his car and being able to tell what car is by just listening to its engine without looking are long gone. Another thing we don't need to work hard for and keep well maintained ourselves.

We don't have to search stores for new clothes we like, we can get a blog list updated through email and have Amazon ship it to us.

We don't have parents that watch out for our debt from a young age. You want to go out of state to college? Sure. Study abroad for more $, sure. Grad school? Why not. Backpacking excursion after college? Hell yeah.

We got the essentials of life much easier.

[DarkTriad]

I think Chopper said it best -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[DarkTriad]

(11-28-2014 09:14 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(11-28-2014 09:07 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

Thanks. It's my life. This community is important to me because it has helped me a great deal.

Me too. The men here strike a delicate balance. It's clear to me that red pill men are among the best of men. But, there are hundreds of MRA sites where the men are red pill - but not by choice, because they are bitter losers who couldn't get a date in a women's penitentiary with a carton of cigarettes! What Roissy calls Incels (Involuntary celibates). But the men here are different - a pretty cool, savvy group of guys who on the whole can pull some quality tail. But also know that they shouldn't let that run their lives - there's fitness, travel, finances, investing...and overall contentment. I've gotten some life-saving advice on these forums.

I'm not even a big traveler (the primary purpose of this site) and it's STILL one of my favorite sites because it's just such a solid group of guys.

[Troll King]

A lot of good responses here. I think the big problem, that hasn't been mentioned so far, is how there isn't a middle ground for millenials. We either grew up with helicopter parents or we grew up as latch key kids. Either your parents and school and others smothered and micro managed you or you were largely left to your own devices, like I was, and was raised on TV, Microwave meals, and the internet.

I think this has created two groups. Those that never learned how to stand up by themselves who are now much more conformist. And those who were largely left to raise themselves and are now very nihilistic.

[DrewP]

I'm in the millenial age group myself. I've observed that the following are the defining characteristics of millenials:

-Unwillingness to chat up strangers (probably the most pronounced difference I see)
-The whole concept of girls going out but wanting to be left alone by guys (my parents literally can't comprehend this)
-Extreme reluctance to enter into relationships
-23+ year old women going for charismatic players over intelligent, successful, stable men
-Being glued to smart phones (duh)
-Strong desire for a large number of casual friends/acquaintances just to feel popular
-General whininess/negativity about anything too familiar (e.g. hometown, home state, school, workplace, etc.)
-Pathological obsession with travel, not just as an occasional treat, but as a way of life
-Unrealistic assessment of self-worth (e.g. fatties who think they have "nice curves")
-Unrealistic dreams and expectations; everyone thinks they'll make it in glamorous, over-saturated fields of work
-Extremely liberal (duh)
-More politically inclined overall
-High prevalence of mental illness diagnoses
-More "book smart"; better at abstract thinking
-Fine with gays

You may notice most of those characteristics are centered around female behavior. I guess the takeaway is that today's men are more similar to our fathers than today's women are to their mothers.

[El Chinito loco]

(11-30-2014 07:50 PM)DrewP Wrote:  

-More politically inclined overall

In a completely superficial "missing the point" sort of way they are political but they don't have much actual knowledge of in depth issues.

They can repeat the popular activist issue or hashtag of the day but if you press them on on their beliefs they fall apart. It's just trendy activism.

Quote:

You may notice most of those characteristics are centered around female behavior. I guess the takeaway is that today's men are more similar to our fathers than today's women are to their mothers.

American society has raised a generation of narcissistic women and completely alienated its young men.

[The Father]

(11-30-2014 03:37 PM)Troll King Wrote:  

A lot of good responses here. I think the big problem, that hasn't been mentioned so far, is how there isn't a middle ground for millenials. We either grew up with helicopter parents or we grew up as latch key kids. Either your parents and school and others smothered and micro managed you or you were largely left to your own devices, like I was, and was raised on TV, Microwave meals, and the internet.

I think this has created two groups. Those that never learned how to stand up by themselves who are now much more conformist. And those who were largely left to raise themselves and are now very nihilistic.

Good points.

[Jazzman92]

(11-28-2014 12:34 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(11-28-2014 11:42 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

OP's people are technically Gen Xers who are in their own right horribly pathetic.

I have my own complaints i've stated about true millenials on this forum.

I personally think the disillusionment within my generation will cause something to happen. Who knows.

I'm not sure they are technically Gen X. The one was about 30, so born 1984. I'm a Gen-X'er and these kids bare no resemblance to me. As a boy:

- I knew no one with a peanut allergy. Not one kid. Now, you can't even bring your OWN PB&J sandwich to school, because some kid three rows down could be allergic and get a whiff of your PB. That's right - peanut butter is banned in some schools. Banned quicker than a troll in front of Tuthmosis

- We played dodge ball, kick ball, all the 'violent' games kids are not allowed to play today.

- Only winners got trophies. Losers got mocked.

- If you cried in school, you were labeled a "pussy" or a "faggot" and the other kids wouldn't have anything to do with you. The school would tell you "boys don't cry". They did NOT encourage you to "explore your feelings".

- And, the most significant thing that has gone missing in Millenial classrooms: When a got her boobs early, really big boobs...she got felt up :/ The teachers would roll their eyes and look away. Now, SWAT teams would descend and any boy who even LOOKED at her boobs would have "Sex offender for life" tattooed on his forehead like Brad Pitt did in "Inglorious Basterds". That's how extremely PC school has become. Wasn't that way for me.

In short, don't call these kids MY generation

I'm 22 and we did all of the things you mentioned when I was in high school.

I used to eat pb and j sandwiches all of the time. One of my buddies used to make peanut butter and weed sandwiches and sell them. He used to extract weed and sell thc pills too, crazy smart guy.

In p.e. we played dodgeball and tackle football. Socially awkward kids got picked on all of the time. The p.e. teachers only liked the athletes, and only winners got accolades.

My friends made up a day called national ass smacking day and they would all smack the slutty girls with fat asses right on the ass. Funny thing is this day would happen every month.

Drugs were also rampant and we had a bunch of fights.

I wouldnt be surprised if high school is different now with all of the social media and cultural changes that have occurred over the last 5 years, but I doubt that it has changed significantly. One of the things I've realized over the years is that despite the societal changes that exist, human nature essentially remains the same. The degree to which certain behaviours are displayed may change, but the underlying desires and motivations remain the same. Ignorance manifests itself in different forms.

With all that being said I do agree that my generation acts more selfishly, boys act more feminine, people are too reliant on technology, and people as a whole are much more soft. Physically, mentally, and emotionally.

[The Father]

(11-30-2014 10:03 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

One of my buddies used to make peanut butter and weed sandwiches and sell them.

LOL. I need one of these! And I guess I won't have to worry about the munchies :/

[WalterBlack]

I wonder if it’s a class thing? I doubt you would see the millennial softness in working class people.

My dad did blue collar work, and his attitude when I was 18 was “Get a job”, “go to university”, or “get the fuck out of the house”. My parents never gave a shit about school PTA meetings. When I was a teenager, I basically had to go to school, not get anybody pregnant and not end up in prison. Apart from that, my parents were totally hands off.

I now work with white collar people - most of them don’t have an “edge”, and a lot of them are very spoiled children. I once overheard a 29 year old female once crying on the phone because Daddy was cutting her spending money.

My straight male coworkers are such faggots that at work they discuss latest fashions and the best places for cupcakes. They’re willing to talk to female colleagues (that they are not banging) for 30 min about feminine shit like handbags. They’re all aged 23-29. Some of them still live with their parents.

[britchard]

I'm deep in the millennial generation, and there are several other problems I see regularly which I don't think have been posted here yet.

-People who pretend to be nice, friendly and liberalist are actually the nastiest people I know of. I've seen them conpletely go out of their way to be mean to someone, just to get social approval. These aren't your classic 'bullies' either.

-Serious lack of competiveness. I can remember 'don't tackle the girls' sport lessons. Interestingly, the only times I really cried from 3+ years old was after losing at sports. I always wanted to win, and that desire has helped me later on, e.g always want to get full marks on tests, always want to practice to perfection.

[The Reactionary Tree]

Where are these people coming from? Is this a regional thing? I live in the midwest and have not seen most of this stuff i.e. parents showing to their child's job interview or speaking to their boss for them. I will admit that I do know quite a few people entering their 30s who still live at home.

All of DrewP's points I have noticed as being true generalizations of Millennials.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(12-01-2014 04:15 PM)britchard Wrote:  

I'm deep in the millennial generation, and there are several other problems I see regularly which I don't think have been posted here yet.

-People who pretend to be nice, friendly and liberalist are actually the nastiest people I know of. I've seen them conpletely go out of their way to be mean to someone, just to get social approval. These aren't your classic 'bullies' either.

-Serious lack of competiveness. I can remember 'don't tackle the girls' sport lessons. Interestingly, the only times I really cried from 3+ years old was after losing at sports. I always wanted to win, and that desire has helped me later on, e.g always want to get full marks on tests, always want to practice to perfection.

This has been a longstanding personal flaw with liberals. They care about humanity but hate actual humans.

It always bewildered me that the people who purported to care the most about social issues are the rudest to their fellow man. When I started in journalism I was crestfallen to find out the people whose work I admired were ill-mannered and sometimes just nasty.

Conservatives are often the opposite: they'll trash humanity, but show the most humanity when it comes to inter-personal relations.

[AnonymousBosch]

Something I was just thinking about: Generation X took great pride in knowing the media was always selling a false narrative for commercial interests and liked to think we weren't smart enough to be fooled by it.

Blue-Pill Millennials don't care about the falsity of a narrative as long as they get their cut - either financial or narcissistic supply - for selling it.

As they age, society will normalising their lying to achieve their ends, rationalised thievery and complete lack of honour, so my advice is not invest in them in the slightest unless they display clear evidence of red pill thinking.

[DJ-Matt]

(11-28-2014 07:17 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

SNIP

I had a similar story growing up, although both my parents are alive and treated me great. Various things happened when I was very young that caused some trauma that clearly messed me up good. I have no problem chatting up strangers but have a crippling approach anxiety with women as well as being extremely uncomfortable touching anyone (I have a warm up period with girls that's way too long).

It was through RVF and ROK and Roosh that I made massive changes in my life. I'm clearly still fucked up with touching and approaching, but I'm lifting and eating better. Plus getting a little practice and dressing better isn't hurting.

The only real depressing thing is that it happened so late, I'm in my early 30s now and essentially I am at a level with women that an 18 year old would laugh at. The only saving grace is thanks to my closeted lifestyle through my younger years I look around 25.

[StrikeBack]

(11-30-2014 07:50 PM)DrewP Wrote:  

I'm in the millenial age group myself. I've observed that the following are the defining characteristics of millenials:

-Unwillingness to chat up strangers (probably the most pronounced difference I see)
-The whole concept of girls going out but wanting to be left alone by guys (my parents literally can't comprehend this)
-Extreme reluctance to enter into relationships
-23+ year old women going for charismatic players over intelligent, successful, stable men
-Being glued to smart phones (duh)
-Strong desire for a large number of casual friends/acquaintances just to feel popular
-General whininess/negativity about anything too familiar (e.g. hometown, home state, school, workplace, etc.)
-Pathological obsession with travel, not just as an occasional treat, but as a way of life
-Unrealistic assessment of self-worth (e.g. fatties who think they have "nice curves")
-Unrealistic dreams and expectations; everyone thinks they'll make it in glamorous, over-saturated fields of work
-Extremely liberal (duh)
-More politically inclined overall
-High prevalence of mental illness diagnoses
-More "book smart"; better at abstract thinking
-Fine with gays

This list is so very spot on.

To relate it back to the workplace since that's what this thread started with, I'm in STEM (IT specifically, but it involves other STEM fields too) and I'm in a higher-up position where I lead teams and hire people, so I'm more exposed to similar dramas. I'm 31 turning 32, so I'm sort in the middle between Millenials and Gen X.

The traits I've noticed among the Millenials (99% men) in STEM are:

1. Despite growing up with tech, they on average have much poorer skills than their predecessors, adjusted for experience. In my time and earlier, we had the curiosity to fiddle with stuff, break them, find out how they work etc. None of the Millenials has a home lab / garage, and none uses facilities at work. They don't seem to have any curiosity, and also really fear failures.

2. Piss poor problem solving skills. The first thing I have to drill into those guys is to not immediately google stuff. You won't know what the hell is the right answer until you've done your homework, and we often find ourselves in cutting edge areas of tech that Google hasn't got any answer for us. Virtually none of them knows how to solve a problem without some form of information lookup.

3. Piss poor communication skills. They cannot talk to strangers at all, even when they have to (customers) or need to (networking at work parties / conferences).

4. Highly emotional. They fall apart at the slightest thing. One guy recently quit, but not before going on weeks of counselling, because he got dumped by a girlfriend.

5. Poor personal finance skill. There's no shortage of them making 70K+ and living pay check by pay check.

6. Zero basic household skill. I took the junior guys in the team out to a Korean BBQ one day, and I started - as a good host does - by laying stuff on the BBQ for the cooking. After the first round, I said now you guys help yourselves. The most curious thing happened: none of them did anything, but hungrily and quizzically looked at me as I kept cooking & eating. It turned out that none of them knew when the meat or veggies were cooked... Many of them still have their mothers coming over to do the laundry, or still live at home.

I had those things down pat when I was 11...

7. Lack of competitiveness and professional pride - so much sloppy work, and they don't care.

8. Very passive. If you want something, you ask for it. These guys don't. They'd rather bitch & moan instead.

9. Very entitled, sort of linked to being passive too. They think that a promotion will just fall in their laps, and we (their supervisors) will just read their minds and reward them. Same with getting the job in the first place. When I was just about to graduate from uni, I was networking my arse off, and if anyone hinted at having a job opening, I was onto them, getting my resume in their hands. Recently I had these young graduates asking me about jobs, and after telling them there are positions available, they went... silent, no resume sent my way, nothing. They checked with me much later and I told them the jobs were gone, they got upset and said why didn't I ask for their resumes? Right.

10. Talk like chicks. I'm not gonna take you seriously if you, a grown male adult, talk like a Valley girl, or talk in memes, and I don't care if it's supposed to be "ironic".

Having said all that about Millenials, if I've learned anything from observing my nephew (10 y.o) and his friends, who go to a top school in NYC, I reckon the next generation will be worse.

[El Chinito loco]

(12-01-2014 04:15 PM)britchard Wrote:  

-People who pretend to be nice, friendly and liberalist are actually the nastiest people I know of. I've seen them conpletely go out of their way to be mean to someone, just to get social approval. These aren't your classic 'bullies' either..

A lot of self proclaimed liberals are attracted to these superficial ideals because many of them are overcompensating for their own broken personalities. I've met so many liberals who were real racists and just general nasty pieces of shit that i'm convinced this is true.

The whole thing is phony to the core. The complete lack of personal integrity goes hand in hand with these types because they are living under a thinly veiled illusion. They are living a lie so you can't expect them to be forthright about anything else.

[Kingsley Davis]

"There's no shortage of them making 70K+ and living pay check by pay check."

[Vronsky]

I've noticed this as well and it's been a topic of conversation among my friends, several of whom are in positions where they're responsible for hiring, teaching or managing Millenials. The helicopter parenting is real.

- You'll have parents attend job interviews with their kids and sit in the reception area (at least wait in the fucking car!) and make the follow up call themselves!
- One professor friend of mine has parents call her personally to dispute their precious child's grades (in UNIVERSITY!)
- Another one is in the Student Services department for a top business school and has parents want to sit with their kids during the interview portion of admissions!
- Another is in senior mgmt and is sick and tired of the continual validation/praise the Millenials seek. They are used to getting praised all the time ("I need feedback") and when he gives some sort of constructive criticism, couched in the blandest language he can think of, the butt-hurtness starts.

The thing we all noticed is that there have always been parents who want to be super-involved in their kids lives...what struck as odd is these kids WANT their parents to be enmeshed in every aspect of their lives.

In addition to shared characteristics among both Millenial males and females, several acquaintances have noticed distinct maladjusted social behaviour among Millenial males that have now pre-disposed them to hiring females over the males. They found in their general estimation that the guys lack responsibility, are very sensitive, don't take direction well, and so many are socially inept (lack of eye contact is a big one). We've also noticed that it is next to impossible to guess as to who is straight and who is gay as so many Millenial straight men have that "gay" or "valley-girl" voice-inflection and pitch.

I do feel sorry for the Millenial generation as kids don't raise themselves and the fault for their inability to function lies squarely on their parent's laps. They're also the first generation who will be poorer than their parents and the first generation where the trappings of middle class success (career stability, home ownership, retirement benefits) will elude them due to the mismanagement of the generations above them.

[Snowplow]

Man I couldn't wait to get out of my parents house. They even tried guilting me into staying. "But think of how much money you'll save here!"
Yeah that's fine and dandy, but I'm not gonna be truly independent lightly sucking on your tits.
Plus if I stayed, I'd still have to live under their rules. Sorry ma, sorry old man, not happening anymore.
Thankfully they were never the type to hold my hand through every waking moment, which has made me more independent than some of my peers.

[philosophical_recovery]

(12-02-2014 12:32 AM)Vronsky Wrote:  

I've noticed this as well and it's been a topic of conversation among my friends, several of whom are in positions where they're responsible for hiring, teaching or managing Millenials. The helicopter parenting is real.

- You'll have parents attend job interviews with their kids and sit in the reception area (at least wait in the fucking car!) and make the follow up call themselves!
- One professor friend of mine has parents call her personally to dispute their precious child's grades (in UNIVERSITY!)
- Another one is in the Student Services department for a top business school and has parents want to sit with their kids during the interview portion of admissions!
- Another is in senior mgmt and is sick and tired of the continual validation/praise the Millenials seek. They are used to getting praised all the time ("I need feedback") and when he gives some sort of constructive criticism, couched in the blandest language he can think of, the butt-hurtness starts.

The thing we all noticed is that there have always been parents who want to be super-involved in their kids lives...what struck as odd is these kids WANT their parents to be enmeshed in every aspect of their lives.

In addition to shared characteristics among both Millenial males and females, several acquaintances have noticed distinct maladjusted social behaviour among Millenial males that have now pre-disposed them to hiring females over the males. They found in their general estimation that the guys lack responsibility, are very sensitive, don't take direction well, and so many are socially inept (lack of eye contact is a big one). We've also noticed that it is next to impossible to guess as to who is straight and who is gay as so many Millenial straight men have that "gay" or "valley-girl" voice-inflection and pitch.

I do feel sorry for the Millenial generation as kids don't raise themselves and the fault for their inability to function lies squarely on their parent's laps. They're also the first generation who will be poorer than their parents and the first generation where the trappings of middle class success (career stability, home ownership, retirement benefits) will elude them due to the mismanagement of the generations above them.

Yes, I've seen all of these as well. That, and talking to them, they had no urge to learn to drive and get a car immediately when it was legal. Everyone I grew up with had the same desire, but a shockingly high percentage of those that I've talked to just said "meh, I can take the bus or get a friend/mom/whoever to drive"! That blows my mind, the freedom of having my own vehicle was huge to me.

[SpiderKing]

(12-02-2014 12:54 AM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  

Yes, I've seen all of these as well. That, and talking to them, they had no urge to learn to drive and get a car immediately when it was legal. Everyone I grew up with had the same desire, but a shockingly high percentage of those that I've talked to just said "meh, I can take the bus or get a friend/mom/whoever to drive"! That blows my mind, the freedom of having my own vehicle was huge to me.

The indifference is the same as Millennial girls with regards to male attention

"Boyfriend? Why? I have like sooo many IG followers to like my selfies"

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(12-01-2014 11:34 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 04:15 PM)britchard Wrote:  

-People who pretend to be nice, friendly and liberalist are actually the nastiest people I know of. I've seen them conpletely go out of their way to be mean to someone, just to get social approval. These aren't your classic 'bullies' either..

A lot of self proclaimed liberals are attracted to these superficial ideals because many of them are overcompensating for their own broken personalities. I've met so many liberals who were real racists and just general nasty pieces of shit that i'm convinced this is true.

The whole thing is phony to the core. The complete lack of personal integrity goes hand in hand with these types because they are living under a thinly veiled illusion. They are living a lie so you can't expect them to be forthright about anything else.

"I've met so many liberals who were real racists and just general nasty pieces of shit that i'm convinced this is true."

You mean like the ones who choose to live in lily-white cities like Porkland, Oregon and then get on their high horse and preach to those of us in the Baltimore-DC region about race?

These people sicken me in real life and on Facebook because they're the first to go after anything they perceive as a racial "sin." The real racism is in action and deeds, not words. And if you live amongst only whites you are more racist, by default, than someone who lives in a mixed racial region but utters "impure" words regarding race.

I don't actually care where someone lives, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have someone from an all-white zip code with all-white friends setting himself up as an arbiter in racial matters.

[CaP7]

(04-12-2014 12:56 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-12-2014 12:42 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Just depends on the group Faust. You don't see it with jocks or millennia's from the middle and lower class,

Sure you do. I knew quite a few jocks in university and they were the biggest pussies I've ever met.

They liked to act real tough, but put a few beers in them and they'd be pouring their hearts out to one of the three girls that'd show up to their lame parties.

See Jonathan Martin