[Ensam]

There's no reason you can't negotiate a severance package now - just call it a retention bonus.

Tell them you'll stay until the acquisition is complete but you want a six month retention bonus at the end. Something as simple as:
"Cobra shall receive a <6 months of salary & benefits> bonus on <date 3 or 4 months from now> if he still remains an employee in good standing on that date or if his position is eliminated before then"

Employers with looming layoffs do this kind of stuff all the time. Very standard in the aerospace and defence contracting industry towards the end of a project.

[samsamsam]

How will this affect your unemployment?

If you give notice you lose that I believe.

[Cobra]

(04-10-2014 08:45 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

There's no reason you can't negotiate a severance package now - just call it a retention bonus.

Tell them you'll stay until the acquisition is complete but you want a six month retention bonus at the end. Something as simple as:
"Cobra shall receive a <6 months of salary & benefits> bonus on <date 3 or 4 months from now> if he still remains an employee in good standing on that date or if his position is eliminated before then"

Employers with looming layoffs do this kind of stuff all the time. Very standard in the aerospace and defence contracting industry towards the end of a project.

This was a good suggestion; appreciate it. Although, wouldn’t asking for 6 months worth of extra compensation be considered excessive considering only an additional 3 – 4 month stay?

Just not aware of the standards well enough to know what my negotiating leverage really is in this situation, given industry differences etc. At the negotiating table, I may need to frame it as “I will forgo $XX if I stay another 3 – 4 months. So can you compensate for that?”

(04-10-2014 09:12 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

How will this affect your unemployment?

If you give notice you lose that I believe.

You’re absolutely right. I completely forego any unemployment benefits if I quit on my own accord. However, after pondering it quite a bit, the control I have to pursue my own interests will be more valuable than staying until an “unforeseen” end date where I hand over that control. So I'm trying to find that balance but definitely edging towards the former.

[samsamsam]

Well you are right in having some certainty but you passing on months of support.

I understand you have some control or at least perceived control. But I think you gave them almost all the power. And I am trying to helpful, really I am.

If anything you are doing them a favor. Follow my train of thought:

1) You give them a certain date, so they can plan accordingly - granted they are in control regardless they can let you go at any time. But now they have a clear marker and, if smart, will plan accordingly
2) As a follow on to number 2-they may push you harder since you have a date - I am not sure if you are salary or hourly. But they may squeeze (or try) more productivity out of you with no benefit to you
3) You pass on unemployment - which I really don't get why you would leave money on the table
4) By agreeing to a set date - you sort of can't look for a new job (I understand your plan is to do something on your own). But if something came along - you have agreed to stay to a certain date
5) They may have kept you longer than the agreed upon date and you would have more time to work on your plan

Yes, I get it. If you get something in writing, you have at least a known date. But I think you leave too much on the table.

I don't know how you operate, but the uncertain termination date could add fuel to have you work in the evenings on your plan. Something fear/unknown is one of the great motivators.

[Cobra]

^^^^Trust me, every single thing you said so far has done nothing but help me samsamsam. You provide another perspective that not even my closest friends and colleagues have the guts to provide. I appreciate RVF for bringing us into the same “room” to even have the benefit of a few moments of your time. First beer on me if we ever meet!

To me, it’s about the frame of mind I’m in. Yes, if you look from an alternative angle, I have given them control. However, in order to fully believe they are in control, I would have to believe that they have good options and the market favors them.

Let’s break it down. They are certainly not in a position to hire anyone to replace me (hiring is frozen). Hiring a consultant is an option; but it will be tough to train that person on systems and tasks. Overall, they can do whatever they want now but my point is that they don’t have good options better than what I offer. I also presented this option to them very professionally.

I know their options only because I know the market for these skills well. Also, keep in mind there are additional people on the team also leaving creating more work for the existing folks. That work has got to be done by someone. All I’m saying to them is that I’ll do that work but on terms more favorable to me. With my skill set, that is the best option they have. If they are smart they will take it. If they still don’t want it, it’s no hair off my back (and I’m hairy).

You are absolutely right that I’m putting money on the table by not going the unemployment route. The additional 6 months or so add no value to enrich my future in any way except for a paycheck. I will be happier to stay for a lower amount of time, crush my soul less, and forego the $2 - $3k extra. Trust me, it’s painful to forego cash money. It’s just that I have sacrificed a lot of personal time in my past and now know the immense value of it.

And this may sound a bit too righteous, but I don’t believe in unemployment money I don’t deserve (given the job market for my skills is very very active). I’m not preaching this; it’s just my own view.

Also, I should add that this is a very supportive company with nothing but great people to work with. They fully understand that people are looking for jobs. People surf job boards all day; I see it as I walk by. I take calls from recruiters a few feet away. People know what I’m doing. So I’m already in the process of looking for a job and may even have a few options lined up already. Linkedin is an awesome tool in my field; I've learned to make it work for me.

As far as my mental operation, the unknown does motivate me, but before the unknown created fear that I translated into pressure to find another job. I did this to fit myself into a peg without the knowledge of knowing my options. Now, I don’t have that fear because I navigate the market and keep in touch with some of the key and even non-key players. I created options and know my value a lot more than before. My evenings are full of kids and family in general. I'm still juggling with the coordination of this with spending time on my business goals.

I know I may sound fucking delusional but like MikeCF said in one of his podcasts, you have to be passionate to the point of delusional if you believe in something

[samsamsam]

Cobra,

Cool as long as you have it clear in your head. And you are good with the results of choices you make. I hate that word consequences.

I know this board is relatively anonymous but some of the stuff people go through is very real. Just hate for someone to make some choice without looking at it from all angles.

I expect to see some good updates from you on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cobra]

Not sure if this is a great update but the company CFO said no to the consulting idea. They said they need a full time person. Maybe they think I'm bluffing that I'll turn in my 2 weeks next Friday. Anyways...

There goes my first bump in the road.

[samsamsam]

(04-17-2014 02:11 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Not sure if this is a great update but the company CFO said no to the consulting idea. They said they need a full time person. Maybe they think I'm bluffing that I'll turn in my 2 weeks next Friday. Anyways...

There goes my first bump in the road.

Doh sorry.

[Cobra]

No biggie. My mind is going through a mix of fear, motivation and comfort. It's weird.

I know I need to get out there and play the game.

Fear stops me but motivation doesn't let me step back.

On the other hand, there is a sense of comfort knowing I am choosing a path with a risk that could put me back in the same kind of chair I'm sitting in right now at work.

Next step is to seek out positive people. I may even travel just a bit to meet some of you (hopefully) in the next 2 - 3 months.

Stay tuned.

[Cobra]

So recruiting may likely be the route I go.

2 more weeks at this job. Got a few interviews lined up this week.

One's at a boutique firm and one's at a big ass firm that people know (and probably hate). It's RH.

Likely will take a few months off to travel and would like to meet as many RVF people as possible.

Work was my primary focus all these years (with little value added to my person). So, mentally, I've flipped that script.

Game is now my focus and I plan on improving it as much as possible during this time.

I'll need every bit if I'm pimping people to employers.

[samsamsam]

Cobra,

I thought you had kids, maybe I read that wrong. Not saying you couldn't travel without kids.

I'm getting old - my memory sucks

[Cobra]

Do have some young uns. The travel will be some for them and some for yours truly. Need to find some places to travel to. Mexico City looks cool.

[Cobra]

Today's my last day. To be continued....

[Engineer]

(05-09-2014 03:34 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Today's my last day. To be continued....

Good Luck Cobra! Transitions are always exciting and hope it goes well.

[Cobra]

A little about my transition for those that are interested. Transitions are tough in that you "lose" that routine that you used to embrace. Once that embrace is let go, it's back to figuring out a new routine.

Given that I explicitly decided to leave the world of Accounting and Finance behind, getting to that new routine has been stressful. I have also had a new addition to the family which has been taking an extra toll. Overall, not going out and "hunting" and caring for a newborn even, has reduced my testosterone. It's been hard to go out everyday with a solid agenda to take over the world. Even my approaches may have suffered as a result.

However, I've crawled through all of the above, and even done at least a few approaches a week. Additionally, I have been able to interview and found what will be a game changing opportunity for me : Recruiting. Basically, it's sales, and in turn, it's game. I'm a bit anxious since I have never sold a damn thing before. However, I'm excited and ready to work hard. I just don't see myself sitting behind a desk and looking at spreadsheets. It wasn't enough of a challenge for me because it lacked variety and tended to be very routine.

I interviewed with about 11 people at a recruiting firm. 8 people were in one day; all different personalities. I was able to get a unanimous decision from all of them I think. Sidebar: There is something that I'm doing extremely well in my interviews that I'm not translating into my gaming.

Once they go through the reference checks, I believe I should be getting an offer next week.

In summary, I've been able to steer away from something mundane that I did for almost 10 years and deciding to take a step in a different direction albeit the amount of baggage I have and have convinced someone in a different profession of my social abilities. And, as anxious as I feel, it also feels DAMN GOOD!

[samsamsam]

Congrats. As long as you don't have to sell your services to companies, I am sure you will do well.

Being in finance, I got my share of calls back in the day.

I always like the guys that were positive and friendly, but didn't act like they were doing me a fucking favor. You know what I mean.

I am sure you will get a lot of coaching from your new employers so I won't say any more.

I will close with this

[Dragonstone]

Cobra, getting employers to hire "your candidate" is no easy task. I've dealt with some useless people in that field, and you sound like you're already ahead of the game. Good Luck!

[Wahawahwah]

Edit. Okay damn seems like i was late. Good luck with your future activities.





Wait dude.
Its easier to just mentally focus on finding another job or starting your own venture while you're still employed.

First off, its way easier to get recruited while your still employed than when u show as unemployed. Its also easier to negotiate salary / structure at a new firm as an employee at a current firm...unemployment makes you appear more desperate even if you're not.

Second, if youre planning your own venture its still easier to start doing so from within the firm so when you actually come out, you hit the ground running instead of staring from ground zero.

If you have an idea when that you'll be losing your job, then that gives you the opportunity to plan out your next course of action. By prematurely quitting, you're only handing the power back to them.

Fuck the firm man. Fuck them for letting you go. People may care personally for you but business is ruthless.

Have you officially tendered your resignation in?
I get it that you've spoken to your boss but don't put it on paper if you haven't already. You can always backtrack.
Mentally withdraw from the firms activities and utilize whatever time and mental space you can to leverage upon your skills, your experiences and the firms resources (within official capacity) to find your way forward.

Keep in mind that even though you may get more hungry and focused after you leave, your employability will take a massive hit.

Think of it this way. You've already been fired.
Work as much as you need to within official hours but do not stretch. Put your foot down and tell them you cannot work more. Tell them you're sick or have family problems etc but do not stretch yourself.

Since everyone is looking, people will already have reaxhed out to contacts within other organizations. Leverage their connections.... Ppl help out more if it appears that you have a common cause.

Good luck. Keep us updated.

[Cattle Rustler]

I'm glad that you're happy and did what you wishes.

If I'm correct, transitioned from accounting to HR, right?

[Cobra]

^^^ Shoot just saw this.

I went from Accounting to recruiting for Accounting/Finance. I posted a bit about the transition in the Accounting Career Data Sheet as well.

So....

I GOT AN OFFER!

And start in about a month.

Really excited about making new connections and taking my clients out (eventually).

This thread may now have to die down .. feeling a bit melancholy.

I'll be celebrating in NYC and hope to meet some more players.

[samsamsam]

Where will you be located, where you are now or re-locating? Congrats!

[Cobra]

Still staying in Chicago ma man.

[Brodiaga]

Hey Cobra, congrats on getting a new job.

[samsamsam]

Cobra,

I know you mentioned this thread may be dying down. But as a headhunter type you will be dealing with guys who were let go as well as guys/gals that are actively looking.

Maybe you'll do case studies on what to do and what not do.

Obviously, you don't have to, but it might help some guys keep it in perspective while job hunting.

[Cobra]

Thanks Brodiaga. Looking forward to NYC.

@samsamsam That's a good point bro. I would be happy to.