[The Beast1]

I have a question for the RvF group mind.

Lets say there is a machine that fundamentally changes the entire culture of America to a hybrid 1950s modern era where women don't ride the carousel, are feminine, kind, and basically want their men to be men.

Obviously, there are no fears of divorce rape because the wife you picked is scared sh!tless of what would happen if she left you (no security nets).

The caveat of this is, you have to get married young and participate in society. That means no more bar sluts, no more harems, and definitely a lot more shaming on both males and females to not participate in the classic cad/slut lifestyle.

Basically, the dream of what we say we want happens. Roosh comes back to America and it is a poon paradise. The years of feminism and lefttard ideologies are completely erased from everyone's memory.

Would you give up the cad lifestyle to live in this universe where men are respected and women understand their roles as child bearers and nurturers?

[scorpion]

Yes.

[j r]

Who is the "we?"

All of my close male friends are married, most with kids and living in the 'burbs. Despite what the manospere says, that life I still alive and well, especially among the upper middle class.

Personally, I chose to spend my 20s and most of my 30s not settling down. And I would do it again. I've never been interested in the 1950s. You guys can have it.

[Onto]

Great question Frenchie. It's not just modern day women who shun the old school traditional life.

[Glaucon]

We do not really know what life was like in the 1950.

It had its own problems I am sure of it.

[The Beast1]

(03-26-2014 12:01 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Great question Frenchie. It's not just modern day women who shun the old school traditional life.

It's a question i'm starting to grapple with.

I should have rephrased the question more specifically.

Lets say all of the things on our favorite list:
http://www.returnofkings.com/16837/24-signs-shes-a-slut

Becomes a non issue anymore. The only caveat is, you have to settle down and pick a wife. You obviously can be a bachelor through your 20s and amass your own personal fortune but society will hamper your empire building until you pick up a wife. Just like in the 50s, a bachelor past a certain age was thought to be gay.

Think a coalescence of modern america with some tradition. Women can work, vote, have the same rights as today. Except there is no divorce rape (women get nothing out of a divorce), factory jobs are present, PC culture never existed, and there were abundant opportunities for a man to define himself.

I needed to be more specific in this question.

[Flavius Aetius]

Absolutely--and the commercials were great too.

[runsonmagic]

I personally don't want to go back in time, I want to go forward.

I don't think the 1950s were as great as people make them out to be. Just as feminists make them out to be the most oppressive era ever, traditionalists make them out to be a utopia. Neither seems fully true.

Aside from relationships, the 1950s had widespread use of DDT on all crops, issues with healthy clean food, the brewing cold war, a nightmarish birth system, and those godawful educational films. Give me my paleo food, and internet over that any day.

Still, adds with girls being spanked in them are kinda hot. Wouldn't mind that. But we have the internet and DSLRs, so why not just make more of those now?

[player]

Sex with a variety of unfeminine women becomes unfulfilling. I'd definitely take marriage 1.0 with a young, pretty, feminine virgin so I could focus on building a business empire and becoming rich and powerful (and having mistresses on the side ). Creating a dynasty like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds or Kennedys would be my dream.

[rottenapple]

I would def not, I prefer the sluts and the harem. I agree that women were better back then for relationships and def marriage, but Id rather take my chance in this area with big fun when im young and when I'm older I'll either have to hope to be able to control my girl or find a girl outside who has similar characteristics as those back in the day (from outside Western world most likely).

[The Beast1]

(03-26-2014 01:19 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

I personally don't want to go back in time, I want to go forward.

I don't think the 1950s were as great as people make them out to be. Just as feminists make them out to be the most oppressive era ever, traditionalists make them out to be a utopia. Neither seems fully true.

Aside from relationships, the 1950s had widespread use of DDT on all crops, issues with healthy clean food, the brewing cold war, a nightmarish birth system, and those godawful educational films. Give me my paleo food, and internet over that any day.

Still, adds with girls being spanked in them are kinda hot. Wouldn't mind that. But we have the internet and DSLRs, so why not just make more of those now?

I agree, i'm trying to take the good of the 1950s, the good of the 2000s, and make something new and old at the same time.

It's a obviously utopian in my head, but it will never be perfect. Just a system that holds some semi cohesion in place and offers opportunities to those with enough balls to take it.

[Mujeriego]

I'm going to decline a trip on the time machine. The "Leave It to Beaver" life is about as close to hell as I can imagine.

[Hotwheels]

(03-26-2014 11:44 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Yes.

I concur.

Edit-If not for understanding divorce rape early on, I probably would have been married 20 years ago.

[Snowplow]

I think what Frenchie is getting at is that its not actually the 1950s but the mindset of it. How people acted. If you took all of our technology and invention of today with the attitude of the people then, then yes I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Suits]

(03-26-2014 05:08 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 11:44 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Yes.

I concur.

Edit-If not for understanding divorce rape early on, I probably would have been married 20 years ago.

I would have been very happy to live the same life that my parents did. Hard work, dedication to family and commitment to beliefs.

I'm only jumping from one woman to another to fulfil healthy needs that I can't safely fulfil in another way.

Just making the best of a bad situation. Marriage or even shacking up with a woman these days is an irrational choice.

[Walderschmidt]

Yes.

~Wald

[The Beast1]

(03-26-2014 05:13 PM)Snowplow Wrote:  

I think what Frenchie is getting at is that its not actually the 1950s but the mindset of it. How people acted. If you took all of our technology and invention of today with the attitude of the people then, then yes I would do it in a heartbeat.

Yes! This is exactly what I meant. Thanks for articulating it.

[scorpion]

I think a lot of guys don't understand that the "player lifestyle" is not some kind of eternal ideal, it's simply a logical response to a culture that has become increasingly degenerate and degraded. Running game and fucking dozens of sluts a year is not traditionally masculine behavior, it's simply the easiest way to maximize your individual pleasure in today's society, which is narcissistic and sex-obsessed to an extremely unhealthy degree. All of us are inherently damaged from growing up and living in this society in ways that are difficult for us to even realize, simply because it's basically all we've ever known (i.e. a man who is born blind doesn't really understand what he's missing out on, he just makes the best of his situation).

If instead we had grown up in a society that was more traditional, we wouldn't even have the desire to fuck tons of sluts. Why? Because the vast majority of women wouldn't behave like sluts, and we wouldn't be bombarded by sexual images in the media 24/7. Our sex drives would be lower as a result, and that masculine energy would be re-directed into things like raising children, forming strong community bonds, productive work and hobbies. Traditional masculinity is about becoming the respected patriarch of your own family, it's not about perfecting the art of seduction so that you can seek out tons of strange pussy.

Guys who think they have it great today because they can game tons of sluts are no different than today's damaged women who trumpet the present as the best of all times, simply because they can eat what they want, fuck who they want, and generally live free from all consequences. This is the attitude of a child, not a man. Eating cookies for breakfast and staying up until 2 A.M. is something kids would consider desirable, but obviously it's not the ideal situation for them or in their best interest. Similarly, it seems initially appealing for a man to be able to get cheap and commitment-free access to sex from multiple women, but it's ultimately indicative of an extremely poisoned social environment.

So it's tempting for men to think they have it great these days simply because they have easy access to sex. And that's true. Men have never had such easy access to sex as they do now. But the error in thinking is that sex is the highest good. This is the great lie that we've been sold our entire lives by a degenerate and highly sexualized culture. Sex is not tied in to your masculinity. Obtaining sex should not be the overriding focus of a man's life, and an obsession with sex is indicative of a problem, no different than the person who eats themselves into obesity or drinks themselves into oblivion.

Our minds are poisoned from growing up in a toxic culture that tells us that sexual pleasure is the greatest thing in life. Most people don't even realize the extent of the damage. It's simply "normal". And that is the great tragedy: we don't even know what we've lost. So we just sort of drift along, chasing orgasms and thinking we have it so great, and only in those quiet and lonely moments allowing the thought of how meaningless it all is to creep into our heads.

[Saga]

People focus far too much on the 1950's as an illustration of 'traditional society'. Its iconic lifestyle was indeed an attempt to achieve 'normalcy' after depression and war, but it enacted profound (perhaps irreparable) breaks with tradition: the urban-rural pattern of settlement (heretofore ubiquitous among all civilized societies) was disrupted by suburban sprawl and urban decay; familial, communal, regional and national bonds were severed in favor of consumerism and careerism; unswerving orthodoxy marketed as feel-good individualism became dogma.

In other words, the 1950's lifestyle was a simulacrum of the very same long-standing ways of life that it endeavored to diminish, and successfully so. Undoubtedly, no period that gave rise to 'planned obsolescence' could be considered conducive to tradition, and on the contrary almost every thread that makes up modern society can be traced to precisely that period.

[Hotwheels]

(03-26-2014 06:09 PM)Saga Wrote:  

People focus far too much on the 1950's as an illustration of 'traditional society'. Its iconic lifestyle was indeed an attempt to achieve 'normalcy' after depression and war, but it enacted profound (perhaps irreparable) breaks with tradition: the urban-rural pattern of settlement (heretofore ubiquitous among all civilized societies) was disrupted by suburban sprawl and urban decay; familial, communal, regional and national bonds were severed in favor of consumerism and careerism; unswerving orthodoxy marketed as feel-good individualism became dogma.

In other words, the 1950's lifestyle was a simulacrum of the very same long-standing ways of life that it endeavored to diminish, and successfully so. Undoubtedly, no period that gave rise to 'planned obsolescence' could be considered conducive to tradition, and on the contrary almost every thread that makes up modern society can be traced to precisely that period.

You're reading way too much into it.

[The Father]

(03-26-2014 05:15 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 05:08 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 11:44 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

Yes.

I concur.

Edit-If not for understanding divorce rape early on, I probably would have been married 20 years ago.

I would have been very happy to live the same life that my parents did. Hard work, dedication to family and commitment to beliefs.

I'm only jumping from one woman to another to fulfil healthy needs that I can't safely fulfil in another way.

Just making the best of a bad situation. Marriage or even shacking up with a woman these days is an irrational choice.

Me too, Suits. Me too.

[Suits]

(03-26-2014 05:51 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

I think a lot of guys don't understand that the "player lifestyle" is not some kind of eternal ideal, it's simply a logical response to a culture that has become increasingly degenerate and degraded. Running game and fucking dozens of sluts a year is not traditionally masculine behavior, it's simply the easiest way to maximize your individual pleasure in today's society, which is narcissistic and sex-obsessed to an extremely unhealthy degree. All of us are inherently damaged from growing up and living in this society in ways that are difficult for us to even realize, simply because it's basically all we've ever known (i.e. a man who is born blind doesn't really understand what he's missing out on, he just makes the best of his situation).

If instead we had grown up in a society that was more traditional, we wouldn't even have the desire to fuck tons of sluts. Why? Because the vast majority of women wouldn't behave like sluts, and we wouldn't be bombarded by sexual images in the media 24/7. Our sex drives would be lower as a result, and that masculine energy would be re-directed into things like raising children, forming strong community bonds, productive work and hobbies. Traditional masculinity is about becoming the respected patriarch of your own family, it's not about perfecting the art of seduction so that you can seek out tons of strange pussy.

Guys who think they have it great today because they can game tons of sluts are no different than today's damaged women who trumpet the present as the best of all times, simply because they can eat what they want, fuck who they want, and generally live free from all consequences. This is the attitude of a child, not a man. Eating cookies for breakfast and staying up until 2 A.M. is something kids would consider desirable, but obviously it's not the ideal situation for them or in their best interest. Similarly, it seems initially appealing for a man to be able to get cheap and commitment-free access to sex from multiple women, but it's ultimately indicative of an extremely poisoned social environment.

So it's tempting for men to think they have it great these days simply because they have easy access to sex. And that's true. Men have never had such easy access to sex as they do now. But the error in thinking is that sex is the highest good. This is the great lie that we've been sold our entire lives by a degenerate and highly sexualized culture. Sex is not tied in to your masculinity. Obtaining sex should not be the overriding focus of a man's life, and an obsession with sex is indicative of a problem, no different than the person who eats themselves into obesity or drinks themselves into oblivion.

Our minds are poisoned from growing up in a toxic culture that tells us that sexual pleasure is the greatest thing in life. Most people don't even realize the extent of the damage. It's simply "normal". And that is the great tragedy: we don't even know what we've lost. So we just sort of drift along, chasing orgasms and thinking we have it so great, and only in those quiet and lonely moments allowing the thought of how meaningless it all is to creep into our heads.

If I could give you another rep point for this, I would, but I can't, so here ya go.

[Bushido]

While Scorpion makes some good points, I would choose to stay in the current environment.

It's not really a hypothetical question because you can find traditional women in many countries outside of the West - Asia is full of feminine women who want to marry a reliable provider and bring up kids. You can even find a virgin if you look hard enough.

I live in Japan and there are plenty of examples of traditional marriage all around me, especially out in the countryside. But i have come to realize something: Even in the best scenario with the best girl, marriage fucking sucks.

While we all complain about our women in the West, most of us who take a plane abroad aren't rushing to commit to traditional women either. Why? Because traditional marriage is a trap.

Even if you marry a "good" girl, it's all on you. The greatest irony for me is that feminists have destroyed an institution that was designed to protect women's interests.

Marriage = Huge responsibility in return for children and tepid sex with your aging wife once a month.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Sometimes people in the manosphere get too nostalgic about some (non-existent) ideal past. Traditional marriage is not some kind of dream where you come home to dinner on the table and get your cock sucked every night by your loving wife. The traditional marriage is about duty, not love.

You are nothing more than a money machine to your wife. Your role is to provide until retirement, no matter how badly your job might suck. If you run away from it all you will be forever shamed by society. You are essentially a prisoner. While you may both be "in love" at the beginning, the sex quickly falls off after the kids arrive. The sex on your wedding night was only ever a tool to ensure your commitment.

After the kids start school, your wife has time to burn and engages in leisure with her married friends while you continue work your ass off. You don't resent her because you accept that it's your duty to provide. Hey, that's what you signed up for right?

And yet, you grow more distant from one another. Your wife begins to feel more like a sister than a lover. After a time, you start sleeping in separate beds. As the man, you will work and work and work. You will do overtime to pay the bills even if it means barely seeing your kids. Your wife still cooks for you, of course, but the food doesn't taste as good as you remember it being.

If you are attractive and of means, you might take on a mistress or two but somewhere in your unconscious mind, you will be wondering why you are living the life you do. You love your family but it feels like a lot of sacrifice in return for very little.

This is all the best scenario. A recession or two, failing health or other bad luck with have disastrous effects on your life. As soon as you are unable to provide, your wife will begin to despise you, even if she doesn't know it.

In more conservative eras there were always highly eligible bachelors who knew what was up. They could easily marry but chose not to and, as such, were scorned and shamed by society and called "irresponsible" or "eccentric". Women naturally gravitate towards marriage. Men have to be indoctrinated.

As Scorpion suggests, perhaps I am "damaged" by our modern culture but I'd much prefer to stay single and be free. Free to quit a bad job. Free to move countries. Free to take up new interests. Free to travel. Free to go out with my boys. Free to do whatever the fuck I want. Give me my sluts and my freedom any day.

[svenski7]

I think you will find most RVFers saying yes but in their heart of hearts the answer is a resounding no.

This 1950s Golden Era crap is ridiculous.

Would the black players like to go back to 1950s Game where they get lynched for whistling at a white women?

This is why Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election. He stood for good family values and a time where a man's word was bond but he couldn't sell it to the masses. The liberal media slaughtered him when he mentioned the 1950s as a Golden Era by bringing up Civil Rights and Womens' Rights issues that are today considered a no-brainer.

[Sp5]

No, because I am sure it would result in unintended and possibly disastrous consequences.

It would be like one of those time travel movies. You fix cultural norms to those in the 1950s, then you wake up 50 years later and its Fascist America, or Communism, or a nuclear wasteland.

Unless invaded, societies change organically and naturally over a period of time. There is always a struggle, and the pendulum always swings back and forth.