[samsamsam]

And the ridiculousness continues...He gets to pay for the kid I bet, but can't be there to welcome the baby into the world. If the mother hates the father that much to deny him this rare moment, why have the kid? The kid is just going to be a tool for her to assert herself over the man.

I know, I know maybe I am reading too much into it. But how fucked up is that kid going to be with an angry woman as its mother?


http://www.nj.com/south/index.ssf/2014/0..._room.html

Quote:

A woman is allowed to keep her child's father out of the delivery room when she is in labor, a New Jersey judge has ruled according to the New Jersey Law Journal.

Superior Court Judge Sohail Mohammed — who handed down the February decision regarding a case between estranged, unmarried parents — determined that a woman may keep the father out of the room, based on her right to privacy, the report states.

The judge noted that such an issue — whether a father has the right to be notified when a woman goes into labor and whether he's allowed to be in the room even if the mom objects — has "never been litigated in New Jersey or the United States."

"A finding in favor of plaintiff for both notification and forced entry into the delivery room would in fact be inconsistent with existing jurisprudence on the interests of women in the children they carry pre-birth," he wrote in the decision Plotnick v. DeLuccia.

"It would create practical concerns where the father's unwelcomed presence could cause additional stress on the mother and child. Moreover, such a finding would also lead to a slippery slope where the mother's interest could be subjugated to that of the father's."

The judge cited Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey, which went against a state law that required women who were having an abortion to notify their husbands, the Law Journal reports.

Brian Schwartz, chairman of the New Jersey State Bar Association's Family Law Section, told the New Jersey Law Journal that the decision "clears up the issue for once and for all that the woman gets to make that decision."

[Suits]

I don't see why this is ridiculous. Despite the estranged couple's history, child-birth is a pretty uncomfortable experience and a woman should have a right to privacy if she chooses it.

What we should be up in arms about, is the unreasonable division of child custody or the lack of court enforcement when a woman refused to let the father of her child/children see them for the court mandated number of hours.

The number of cases where women use access to children as a means to control and discipline their father is sickening, but wanting some privacy while in labour is not.

[samsamsam]

For me, I think if I was going to be a father, it would matter a great deal to me to see my child enter the world. My responsibility for the rest of my life, I would like to be there to welcome the child into the world.

[Suits]

(03-13-2014 11:21 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

For me, I think if I was going to be a father, it would matter a great deal to me to see my child enter the world. My responsibility for the rest of my life, I would like to be there to welcome the child into the world.

Sure, I'd expect that same. However, just because I would want to be there, doesn't mean that my estranged partner should be forced to be in my presence during what can be a gruelling medical procedure.

It wasn't that long ago that men weren't allowed in the room ever.

Fact is, marriage is in no way to the man's advantage in Western culture. This is just one example of the many ways that you can't guarantee that you will to be a part of your child's life.

But this isn't an example of anyone's rights being trampled on. I think that it is perfectly reasonable that women retain the right to decide who is present during what can be an embarrassing ordeal. She is, after all, going to be naked from the waist down, bleeding all over the place, probably screaming and pitching a fit and in an extremely vulnerable state.

I do, however, believe that it would be perfectly reasonable to be upset over something like not having access to your child for days following his or her delivery.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Why would any man want to be in the delivery room or anywhere near it?

A baby being born is a messy and unpleasant business. Best left to the mother and a retinue of solicitous hens.

A man can go out and buy cigars for his pals. If there is a young maid in the house it's a good time to fuck her.

The whole idea that a man needs to be present during birth or take some sort of active participation is recent, and in my opinion is part of the emasculation of men in today's society. Even some decades ago it would have been considered absurd.

[Menace]

Knew this would make it on here...initially I thought it was outrageous too, but you really need to frame this as a privacy issue. Should someone have the right to be present while a medical procedure is being performed...regardless of the wishes of the other person? I think you should have the right to include or exclude anyone you want.

Also, people should not be making this mythical amazing experience out of being present for child birth. I was present for mine, but if I wasn't, I don't think I'd lose out on anything. Maybe I just don't buy into this "miracle of childbirth" nonsense that's so widely propagated. It's like thinking the wedding day is the most important day of your wedded life.

[Laner]

Just talk to an older nurse about what she thinks is "better" for the birthing mother.

When the man is in the room there is more drama and distraction. Not just for the mother but for the staff as well.

It would take some very real convincing for me to be in the same room. I just feel its best left to the mother, midwife, and other staff.

I understand the privacy of the situation. When I am busted up in a bad way I just want to crawl under the bushes out of sight for a few days. The last thing I want is an audience.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Yeah, it's all part of the (very successful) propaganda campaign that men and women are supposed to have exactly the same role in child-rearing.

This has led to what is to me one of the most disgusting phrases ever introduced into the English language:

"We are pregnant"

[PompeyChris]

How is this a privacy issue?

I think you're past "privacy issues" the moment you get intimate.

[samsamsam]

Lol, I guess I stand alone on this.

Maybe guys who have kids would chime in and say whether or not they were there for the birth and if they wanted to be there or felt obligated to be there.

I do have a desire to be a father. Just with the right woman.

[Suits]

(03-13-2014 12:17 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

This has led to what is to me one of the most disgusting phrases ever introduced into the English language:

"We are pregnant"

You are spot on about this.

Screw the equality movement. She is pregnant and I don't have mood swings. We are different and for good reason.

[Dr. Howard]

(03-13-2014 12:22 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Lol, I guess I stand alone on this.

Maybe guys who have kids would chime in and say whether or not they were there for the birth and if they wanted to be there or felt obligated to be there.

I do have a desire to be a father. Just with the right woman.

have kids, was there for the birth, I'm indifferent to its importance. Having the mother as the decider and controller of when you can see your child from second #1 of its life though...that is the injustice.

[Slim Shady]

We can argue on about weather it is "right" or a construct to have the father present during delivery. Obviously if the couple are close, it is a form of support...but it can also be about love for one's offspring. In the end it comes down to agency and "choice". hah. The father should have the right to choose, especially if he's paying for it.

[ridiculous_nicholas]

(03-13-2014 12:21 PM)PompeyChris Wrote:  

How is this a privacy issue?

I think you're past "privacy issues" the moment you get intimate.

You are joking right? So are you suggesting the moment you have sex with a woman you can then be present at all of her gyno exams? Come on man.

[ridiculous_nicholas]

(03-13-2014 02:21 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

We can argue on about weather it is "right" or a construct to have the father present during delivery. Obviously if the couple are close, it is a form of support...but it can also be about love for one's offspring. In the end it comes down to agency and "choice". hah. The father should have the right to choose, especially if he's paying for it.

It doesn't sound like they are close and since they aren't married I don't think he is paying for the delivery.

[Dr. Howard]

(03-13-2014 02:28 PM)ridiculous_nicholas Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 02:21 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

We can argue on about weather it is "right" or a construct to have the father present during delivery. Obviously if the couple are close, it is a form of support...but it can also be about love for one's offspring. In the end it comes down to agency and "choice". hah. The father should have the right to choose, especially if he's paying for it.

It doesn't sound like they are close and since they aren't married I don't think he is paying for the delivery.

I know of one state where the man is on the hook for delivery costs for an unmarried child.

[Col. Tigh]

(03-13-2014 11:21 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

For me, I think if I was going to be a father, it would matter a great deal to me to see my child enter the world. My responsibility for the rest of my life, I would like to be there to welcome the child into the world.

I respect the urge to fatherhood, but I have to disagree that any right exists for the father to be in the delivery room. She has a right to privacy, and that simply has to trump. We don't always get what we want; and as Judge Judy is wont to say, "he picked her," after all.

Securing a right to visitation at some reasonable time after delivery is another matter, certainly.

[Slim Shady]

But he'll pay child support right?

[Col. Tigh]

(03-13-2014 03:31 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

But he'll pay child support right?

Who knows? If she files a support case and he is in fact the father (as far as I know most or all states permit DNA testing to ascertain paternity), then yes, he's probably on the hook for child support. Unless he obtains custody (which could entitle him to support from her). Or she decides not to file a case (I see plenty of cases where the mother doesn't, for reasons known not to me). Or some other unknown circumstances exist--in other words, it's very case-specific.

But even if he does have to pay child support, how would that confer on him a right to be present in the delivery room? Paying support can reasonably be linked to a right to visitation or shared custody after the birth, but that's rather different.

I don't see this as a red pill/blue pill issue.

[j r]

I can understand the desire to be there when your child is born; there's nothing wrong with that. However, I'd the mother doesn't want you there, deal with it. Running to the law to get the authorities to help force your way in is a bitch move.

[Vroom]

(03-13-2014 12:22 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Lol, I guess I stand alone on this.

Maybe guys who have kids would chime in and say whether or not they were there for the birth and if they wanted to be there or felt obligated to be there.

I do have a desire to be a father. Just with the right woman.

I was there for the birth of both my kids. Both she and I wanted to be there, but it's not pretty.

For my first kid it was just hours and hours of encouraging her, and her clawing and grasping at me as she tensed and groaned - then when it was actually coming out, I made the mistake of looking right at it. Big mistake - seeing her pussy stretched out with a big head coming out of it put me off the idea of sex (with her) for weeks. And maaaaan the smell of the placenta will bring tears to your eyes.

The second time the baby wasn't breathing when it came out. It was only a few seconds before he started breathing, but it seemed like a lifetime. The nurse or midwife or whatever she was had the baby in her arms and I was overcome by an incredible urge to just get her the fuck away from my son. I've never felt anything like it, and in hindsight it was interesting to have felt just how strong a protective instinct can be, but manhandling staff tends to be frowned upon in hospitals these days. Luckily I apologised and explained what I had felt, and she'd been around enough to understand.

Seeing the mother instantly change from a pitiful, weak woman on the verge of giving up, to one of pure joy when she held it for the first time. And although I had been sucking on a constant supply of laughing gas, which is kept in a bedside cabinet for the mother, I can actually give objective observations, unlike the mother whose perception of the experience is clouded by hormones and opiates.

Although it probably won't teach you anything you didn't kniow already It's a very interesting experience, in the same way as experiencing something for yourself is better than reading about it in a book.

[samsamsam]

Vroom, would you rather have not been there?

Or in other words, knowing what you know, if you were denied that experience would be happy not to have that experience or be upset you were denied that experience?

A few of the posters, respectfully, seem not to care to be in the delivery room. I am not sure if they want to have kids, which may shape their attitudes towards this matter.

Thanks.

[Vroom]

I'm glad I've experienced it, even though it wasn't pleasant. Any learning experience is a good experience, right?

[MidniteSpecial]

You ever been in a delivery room when a woman is giving birth?

This is a blessing in disguise. If she wants you out stay out.

You do not want to see your ladies hole open up that wide. Trust me.

Also you want the woman to be as relaxed as possible. If she's embarrassed for her man to see her like that more power to her.

Animals in the wild go off alone somewhere when giving birth. Same with tribes woman.


I feel your point though. But still.

And if you do stay in the room when your lady gives birth. Stay up by her head hold her hand or something and don't look or go near her vagina.

[Col. Tigh]

I agree, there's really no damn good reason for husbands/fathers to be in the delivery room. It's a bill of goods sold by the same emasculating ilk who dictate men should be doing housework after coming home from a hard day's work.

In my case, my wife delivered each of our three children by c-section. Although I was spared the mental scarring of seeing my wife's vagina emitting a small human being, nonetheless the sounds of cutting and automated blood suction are burned into my memory.

My advice? Stay in the lobby and hand out cigars. It just might save your marriage/relationship weeks of anguish.

(That said, I'd still recommend natural childbirth over c-section, if feasible. Women recover much more quickly from a naturally stretched birth canal than they do a gaping abdominal laceration. And I've fucked women who'd given birth naturally--their pussy felt just as tight as my wife's, who never birthed a child naturally. It's made to heal up back to normal specifications.)