[soup]

(03-13-2014 03:41 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 03:30 AM)soup Wrote:  

Your response makes you sound retarded.

^
Well at least I am glad your elaborate response really elevated the quality of scrupulous argumentation on this forum a few levels up.

You have no argument. You are just telling us to trust you.

[Mage]

(03-13-2014 03:30 AM)soup Wrote:  

Can you give us a god that we can check out, or do we have to take your word for it?

Also, if he's real, do want us to worship your god like you do?

Listen it's you who's asking for more and more.

Surely after that you will complain that "religious people" like Mage want to "force" their beliefs on you.

Also I told you I don't worship anything.
It seems for me you have some preconceived notions, some strongly rooted stereotypes, in your head that you just cannot get rid of and constantly want me to refute.

No use of speaking with you on this topic more.

[soup]

(03-13-2014 03:52 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 03:30 AM)soup Wrote:  

Can you give us a god that we can check out, or do we have to take your word for it?

Also, if he's real, do want us to worship your god like you do?

Listen it's you who's asking for more and more.

Surely after that you will complain that religious people like Mage want to "force" their beliefs on you.

Also I told you I don't worship anything.
It seems for me you have some preconceived notions, some strongly rooted stereotypes, in your head that you just cannot get rid of and constantly want me to refute.

No use of speaking with you on this topic more.

This post sounds like syrup. Give us some thing we can check-out.

[Bill]

(03-12-2014 10:09 PM)soup Wrote:  

Almost every guy on this thread is trying to argue that god exists.

It´s american brainwashing or stockholm syndrom. People don´t want to be ostracized. In Germany most people are atheist they laugh at this. I am in Turkey, the level of religious brainwashing is on a higher level. To expect Atheists to to stand still and shut up to the craziness is insane. How to take people serious when they see and talk about "ghosts and santa clause" all the time?

[WanderingSoul]

Fuckin hipsters think they know everything. If they knew shit, they wouldn't be fuckin hipsters!

[big poppa]

Not one of us knows the answer so that is why debates on religion are ridiculous.

With that being said,

You can't umbrella all religious people as brainwashed and indoctrinated. While some are, many others including myself believe that there is a definite higher power, and also understand that religious texts are written by men who are flawed.

Proving that Noah didn't carry 2 of every animal on a ship doesn't prove there is no God

There can be a million different interpretations as to who or what God actually is, it could even just be positive/negative energy created from your own thoughts and actons.

But I'll be fucked if a rock exploded one day, and years later we've got 6+ billion people running around with thoughts and ideas.

Anyway, everyone has their perspective and I see no point trying to change anyone's.

[caracal]

The Romans mocked the Christians (and crucified and fed them to the lions, apparently) when Christianity first appeared. Then the Christians mocked the Romans/pagans (and engaged in the Crusades/Inquisition and molested little boys, apparently) Now the atheists mock the Christians and as atheists form organisations and create their own dogma I suspect they'll eventually end up committing some sort of atrocities as well (I've read blog posts by an atheist 'celebrating' the arson of a church because it is bringing enlightenment, for example) This is just the cycle of history. There is an excellent quote in 'A Very Private Gentleman' by Martin Booth (made into the movie The American with George Clooney): 'I have no intention of insulting or demeaning the beliefs of my fellow man. Nothing can be gained thereby save controversy and the dubious satisfaction of insult.'

Anway that was a bit off-topic...

This particular example is not as bad as that church that pickets the funerals of soldiers saying they'll go to Hell, but it's still not good. Sure the cross may not have received approval and the courts ordered it removed, but I could point out several breaches of council regs on my street alone but no one bothers with making a fuss about it because no one on my street is a douche (that I know of). I suspect the person who complained about this is, quite simply, a douche and even worse than that, a douche with a barrow to push.

[Sargon of Akkad]

(03-12-2014 10:09 PM)soup Wrote:  

Almost every guy on this thread is trying to argue that god exists.

Actually, no. hardly anyone on this thread has been trying to argue for god's existence.

[Dr. Howard]

@Soup, you seem to be really passionate about dis-proving god/religion when it comes up. What makes you such a passionate atheist evangelist? Religious evangelism is easy to understand but where does a conviction to convince people that no god exists come from?

[Flint]

(03-12-2014 07:08 PM)Frost Wrote:  

I don't know if I believe in God or not, but I do know this with 100% certainty: The Atheist cult is a sad, pathetic bunch of left-wing whiners who are trying to destroy the last remaining shred of traditional values in the western world. I would much rather associate with Christians, raise my children as Christians, and - when it comes down to it - fight beside Christians, against their Feminist, Marxist, Atheistic enemies.

Also, Atheism is - on a dispassionate, logical level - completely retarded. Even Richard Dawkins, patron saint of the neckbeard, technically identifies as an Agnostic.

Same old conspiracy theory that gets reiterated all over the place yet remains fundamentally flawed and ridiculous. The fallacy here is that movements and ideologies like feminism, Marxism and atheism or, on the other side, conservatism, Christianity and Capitalism do not in the least build diametrically opposed factions nor do these ideas necessarily imply each other.

Atheism is not any more of a "cult" than the manosphere, supporters of free markets, feminism or conservatism. All these movements are diverse, quarelling and fragmented in themselves and are not monolithic entities like many people would like to see them. There are conservatives who are atheists and not averse to feminism. There are Christian feminists who hate social welfare and love free markets. There Marxists who are pretty much into traditional values and gender roles. Neither feminism nor Marxism, atheism or Conservatism have undisputed leaders.

I'm not sure why you refer to Richard Dawkin's personal views. As if every atheist would worship him as his father figure and role model and as if there wasn't a plethora of atheist thinking before him, reaching back to the ancient Greeks. I'm an atheist and I don't give a shit if he thinks he is an agnostic. He might be a great scientist but he is a bad philosopher/debater and you don't need him, Hitchens or other atheist writers to come to the conclusion that God is an invention.

Apart from that, the kid who demanded to remove the cross is a fucking loser with no compassion for that grieving mother. But an average atheist has just as much to with him as mainstream Christians have with the Westboro Baptist Church.

[soup]

(03-13-2014 08:04 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

@Soup, you seem to be really passionate about dis-proving god/religion when it comes up. What makes you such a passionate atheist evangelist? Religious evangelism is easy to understand but where does a conviction to convince people that no god exists come from?

Redpill is about sharing truth isn't it?

People on this thread are acting is if sucking some alpha guy's dick is ok.

Anyguy who worships another man is a homo or a closet homo.

If god could exist, and he can't, then he would be the biggest alpha in the universe, and you'd be his slave.

The question is- do you want to worship your slave master?

[TigerMandingo]

^ what the..... where do you begin with this one?

[Libertas]

(03-13-2014 08:29 AM)Flint Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 07:08 PM)Frost Wrote:  

I don't know if I believe in God or not, but I do know this with 100% certainty: The Atheist cult is a sad, pathetic bunch of left-wing whiners who are trying to destroy the last remaining shred of traditional values in the western world. I would much rather associate with Christians, raise my children as Christians, and - when it comes down to it - fight beside Christians, against their Feminist, Marxist, Atheistic enemies.

Also, Atheism is - on a dispassionate, logical level - completely retarded. Even Richard Dawkins, patron saint of the neckbeard, technically identifies as an Agnostic.

Same old conspiracy theory that gets reiterated all over the place yet remains fundamentally flawed and ridiculous. The fallacy here is that movements and ideologies like feminism, Marxism and atheism or, on the other side, conservatism, Christianity and Capitalism do not in the least build diametrically opposed factions nor do these ideas necessarily imply each other.

Atheism is not any more of a "cult" than the manosphere, supporters of free markets, feminism or conservatism. All these movements are diverse, quarelling and fragmented in themselves and are not monolithic entities like many people would like to see them. There are conservatives who are atheists and not averse to feminism. There are Christian feminists who hate social welfare and love free markets. There Marxists who are pretty much into traditional values and gender roles. Neither feminism nor Marxism, atheism or Conservatism have undisputed leaders.

Frost is talking about clusters of views, not saying that everyone who is a Marxist is also a feminist or the like for example, just that the two tend to cluster together because they are based on similar premises. The atheists derisively called the "atheist cult" by many that Frost speaks of are those who tend to make a big deal of their atheism, consciously think about it, and take action based on it. These people undeniably overwhelmingly skew to the left, though this is not necessarily true.

Then there are atheists like me (and I think you) that just accept it and go along. I barely think anything of it and couldn't care less about it because it isn't a big part of my life. I guarantee Frost wasn't talking about those that fall into that category.

All that said, it's somewhat sad to see this board looking like a youtube comment thread.

[Dr. Howard]

(03-13-2014 12:18 PM)soup Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 08:04 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

@Soup, you seem to be really passionate about dis-proving god/religion when it comes up. What makes you such a passionate atheist evangelist? Religious evangelism is easy to understand but where does a conviction to convince people that no god exists come from?

Redpill is about sharing truth isn't it?

People on this thread are acting is if sucking some alpha guy's dick is ok.

Anyguy who worships another man is a homo or a closet homo.

If god could exist, and he can't, then he would be the biggest alpha in the universe, and you'd be his slave.

The question is- do you want to worship your slave master?

Just trying to get a better sense of where you are coming from. From what you wrote it seems like you are compelled to enlighten others.

As for worshiping my slave master as god, that sounds fine if there is some way that I can at least accept the gifts of some all powerful being simply by admitting that he is my master that sounds like a good investment. I think it helps me be humble about my human limitations, as self determining as I think I am I'm never going to be able to control time or physics or even a roulette wheel.

I don't know if its 'alpha' but it is wise to know that is always someone better than you out there, and if its beyond 'someone' there is always something better. ie. the strongest human could easily be bested by a mediocre gorilla for example. In my case I recognize that as ultimately being God regardless of how many notches I get or how rich I am, something cosmic could just fart on me and that would be the end so I am grateful/happy/slave master worshipping each day I wake up and something terrible hasn't happened to me.

I can't prove god exists, but my life has been much more enjoyable for me once I decided that i was not in total control and accepted that God is going to manage some things in my life that I cannot.

This statement though:

(03-13-2014 12:18 PM)soup Wrote:  

Anyguy who worships another man is a homo or a closet homo.

I don't know about homo but worshipping another person will likely lead to regret or at least a regrettable full back tattoo of an athlete. I completely agree. Thats just another upside of the God thing, I already have a master so I'm not inclined to search for or bow to a human one.

Anyhow, I like Soup's crusades against God, they are reaffirming.

[Teutatis]

(03-13-2014 07:37 AM)big poppa Wrote:  

Not one of us knows the answer so that is why debates on religion are ridiculous.

With that being said,

You can't umbrella all religious people as brainwashed and indoctrinated. While some are, many others including myself believe that there is a definite higher power, and also understand that religious texts are written by men who are flawed.

Proving that Noah didn't carry 2 of every animal on a ship doesn't prove there is no God

There can be a million different interpretations as to who or what God actually is, it could even just be positive/negative energy created from your own thoughts and actons.

But I'll be fucked if a rock exploded one day, and years later we've got 6+ billion people running around with thoughts and ideas.

Anyway, everyone has their perspective and I see no point trying to change anyone's.

What are actons?

and

That's not how the big bang is thought and theorized to have happened.


Anyway, I absolutely agree that not believing in religion is different than not believing in god; we can argue that one is just a human construct while the other is the energy, the fountain, the source, the everything that transcends human smallness by such a scale that our human minds can't grasp. The problem is that there is zero evidence for this fountain, source god to exist, unless you call the universe itself god. Not a sentient, conscient being but just the totality of everything that exists. Then what's the point of calling it god.

But I know this is not what people think when they think of god. Most likely they think of something abstract that has some kind of awareness and intelligence and is interested in what we do on this planet. Again, there is zero evidence for this god to exist. As much as I'd like for such a god to actually exist and to tell me why and how we're here and why the universe exists, I don't think there is. We're alone in an empty and cold universe that has no point and who doesn't care we exist. We die and that's it, nothingness forever. I wish I'm wrong tough, but everything we know so far points to it being true.

[Teutatis]

By the way, being a godless heathen myself I have no problem with the mother putting a cross where her son died.

[megatron]

(03-12-2014 06:03 AM)j r Wrote:  

This is all true, but let's be honest and point out that the religious have a much greater history of enforcing their beliefs on everybody else than do the non-religious. In DC, you can't even by a bottle of liquor on a Sunday. NY wa the same way until somewhat recently.

Also, religion is a choice. If it's your choice, more power to you. I don't have any desire to go around tearing down other people's symbols, but the idea that everyone needs religion is absurd.

Athiest political movements (Asian and Russian communists) have killed nearly 100 million people in the 20th century. Also forced millions of abortions. The Nazis, who were Anti-Christian, killed millions too (many priests among them). Religions, even when counting Islam (the most violent religion by far), can't even come close to that over their ENTIRE histories.

[Blunt]

@Soup This is why atheists can be some of the most obnoxious trolls. Yes, you are trolling, not speaking 'truth'.

No one can know whether God exists. That is why it's called faith. You choose to believe that since there is no evidence of His existence that he therefore does not exist. Christians, like myself and other religious and agnostic people believe that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Don't try to take some kind of moral high road by claiming you are preaching truth when actually you are just insulting the religious beliefs of people who share this forum with you and wish you no harm.

It is necessary to respect the religious or irreligious beliefs of everyone. Disguising disrespect of anyone's beliefs as atheism is shameful and is no better than people who may have tried to force beliefs on you.

[KC4]

Sry it became a double post.

[KC4]

The mother had all the right in the world putting that cross on the roadside. Why? It symbolic thing believing that her son is at a happy place. I completely support that reason. But whether god exists or not is another story. I don't believe in anything neither that good exists or he don't or whatever deity is controlling us from some random space station. But I have always found religion as more of guidelines than anything else. I am not a big fan of religious that claim that you go hell for not believing in that god or the other which is ludicrous. With that said why shouldn't she be allowed to have her cross there. Can she physically show her love to her son that doesn't exist any longer. No she does it symbolically. Why a cross? She was raised in Christian country right with Christian values right? So why shouldn't she.

[Bill]

Right because I don´t believe in ghosts and don´t respect people who believe in ghosts makes me a troll. So be it.

[Blunt]

Yes Bill. The only difference between you and Al Qaeda is that you (probably) have not killed anyone who disagrees with you. However your contempt for people with different beliefs, like theirs, is evident.

[Dr. Howard]

(03-14-2014 12:14 PM)Blunt Wrote:  

Yes Bill. The only difference between you and Al Qaeda is that you (probably) have not killed anyone who disagrees with you. However your contempt for people with different beliefs, like theirs, is evident.

Thats a bit harsh, I expect people to have contempt for those who believe in God. It makes total sense for an outsider to think 'what is the point of singing a song about a ghost on sunday'. I'd have a hard time believing that there was a moon landing if someone just wrote about it in a book and there was no video/sound and all that remained of cape canaveral was a few rusted pieces of metal from the launchpad.

@Bill, on ghosts though, I find it easier to believe in ghosts than in God. If you've seen and/or heard one there is no faith or belief required, it is unmistakably unnatural. By the same premise I would advocate that you not believe in animals like the wolverine, cougar or bear. They produce the same 'holy shit' effect when you stumble upon one especially when some biologist has declared there are none in the area you are working in.

[soup]

(03-14-2014 11:27 AM)Blunt Wrote:  

@Soup This is why atheists can be some of the most obnoxious trolls. Yes, you are trolling, not speaking 'truth'.

No one can know whether God exists. That is why it's called faith. You choose to believe that since there is no evidence of His existence that he therefore does not exist. Christians, like myself and other religious and agnostic people believe that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Don't try to take some kind of moral high road by claiming you are preaching truth when actually you are just insulting the religious beliefs of people who share this forum with you and wish you no harm.

It is necessary to respect the religious or irreligious beliefs of everyone. Disguising disrespect of anyone's beliefs as atheism is shameful and is no better than people who may have tried to force beliefs on you.

Insulting beliefs?

I didn't know that beliefs could get insulted.

If you are going to define god as a thing that exists out of existence, then there is nothing to prove, because that's an impossibility and you are just masturbating with words.

If their is a "God" that exists in nature- a conscious force that controls everything, than that thing is an overlord.

Yes- everyone has to takes leaps of faith and gamble in all aspects of their lives.

But tell me why the concept of Zombie rising from the dead and proclaiming he is the son of god is more believable than fat man flying through the sky with flying reindeer and a bag filled with nearly unlimited space.

What if I told you that I was god?

[Blunt]

I'm glad I could educate you Soup.

I didn't define God as a thing that 'exists out of existence'. I don't even know what you mean by that. I said no one can know whether he exists, as in for a fact.

I will not explain Christian beliefs to you. If you would like to know more there are plenty of resources out there. As I said before, I respect your beliefs as an atheist, but I don't respect you mocking beliefs that you don't understand.

If you told me you were God I would probably put a dollar in your cup, call you a cab home, or smile and continue about my day, depending on the context.