[Elim]

Not to take away from your experience, but I don't think one needs to take a trip to Peru and feel like shit and spend that much money to realize important changes and make them happen. If your realizations are surprising to you, then maybe you are sleepwalking through life. What else are you missing out on?

Drugs can bump us in the right direction, and I've done many, but I don't think they're usually the best method for lasting change. In general, nothing good comes easy, and I'm not saying ayahuasca is a walk in the park, but it's still easier than starting a meditation practice and being disciplined. Don't hate me, just sharing my thoughts.

[strengthstudent]

(03-12-2014 06:18 AM)Elim Wrote:  

Not to take away from your experience, but I don't think one needs to take a trip to Peru and feel like shit and spend that much money to realize important changes and make them happen. If your realizations are surprising to you, then maybe you are sleepwalking through life. What else are you missing out on?

Drugs can bump us in the right direction, and I've done many, but I don't think they're usually the best method for lasting change. In general, nothing good comes easy, and I'm not saying ayahuasca is a walk in the park, but it's still easier than starting a meditation practice and being disciplined. Don't hate me, just sharing my thoughts.

I am not a psychedelic evangelist/messiah but I see them as an useful substance for many people, that's it. I got into these things when I heard that one of my favorite influences(Robert Greene, Alan Watts, Jordan Belfort) did psychedelics and said how beneficial they were. Eventually got into McKenna, Aubrey Marcus, Joe Rogan etc.

I don't really like the word "drug" because it has so much negative connotations. It is obvious that these plants are not magic pills but according to personal experience and hundreds of anecdotal evidence, they can be immensely helpful. They are neutral substance which can either strengthen your perspective or completely see your life from a different angle. When you use these substances, the people who have used them know that you see, feel and think from a whole different angle and let you see things which you have taken granted or have missed.

I knew one guy who I did once LSD with, and he used the whole meaning of the trip to rationalize his inaction, laziness and that "career doesnt matter". Whereas I personally was thinking how to kick more ass. But LSD is more recreational "fun" substance than introspective hell like shrooms or ayahuasca.

The great thing about psychedelics is that once to couple of times per year is enough for experienced folks, while majority people could only trip once in a lifetime and reap huge benefits. I personally suggest my friends to try shrooms at least once, because it affects their perception of the world & themselves so much, that it is almost always beneficial. The most challenging aspect is to delete the cultural conditioning and wrong / incorrect beliefs regarding these things. Almost always they are nothing but fearful propaganda and prejudice.

[Elim]

I agree they can be helpful. I don't know how many times I've tripped. 50-100 ...somewhere in there.

I support people if they want to try a substance, but I no longer encourage most people to use anything. I've seen too many people with horrible reactions, and I don't want to take any responsibility for that anymore.

[strengthstudent]

(03-12-2014 09:03 AM)Elim Wrote:  

I support people if they want to try a substance, but I no longer encourage most people to use anything. I've seen too many people with horrible reactions, and I don't want to take any responsibility for that anymore.

Definitely, I show the pros and cons, give them enough information and then let them know that if they want to do it they can contact me. I don't think it is very ethical to push it.

(03-11-2014 03:58 PM)White Trash King Wrote:  

Just watched a show that discussed ayahuasca last night on TV. DMT is the chemical in ayahuasca that causes the trips. The show was 'Ancient Aliens', the episode about shamans. They did about 5 minutes on it, but doctors administered DMT to patients in a controlled environment, 60 people I think. Anyway,,they all reported seeing strange beings, and all but a few said they received a 'message' that basically said 'thank you for discovering this, now we can communicate with you easier'. Some trippy shit for sure. That's why I want to take it,,,enlightenment, ive been reading about it since 05

I think they are more a window to enlightenment/end of suffering/awakening/whatnot, not a door. They can give you glimpses(satori in zen) of it, especially with shrooms which have been scientifically proven to shut down ego parts of the brain. Alan Watts said about psychedelics: "When you get the message, hang up the phone.".

[Elim]

^ Agree with everything on this last post.

[Architekt]

Anyone who hasn't taken huge quantities of potent psychadelics isn't in any position to tell people not to take them. Interestingly enough, anyone that has taken them almost certainly wouldn't tell other people not to at least try them

There is no way to describe the way it affects your mind and body. It's completely understandable that people automatically assume spiritualilty/divinity/whatever at their peak. It's not so much insanity, as the only explanation most can produce

I'm kind of a freak in this regard (logic still works at all times, even while tripping beyond sacks), but a lot of people will hit a point where they pretty much lose, entirely, the ability to rationalise (ie; delirium). At this stage, you're not tripping anymore, you're actually experiencing the world in the way it enters your muddled head - many people are left with no explanation for the way they feel but the "spiritual enlightenment" they heard their hippy friend telling them about

If you can remember at all times that you're just tripping and think things through, you'll never have a bad trip, and don't have to worry about demons, or aliens, or whatever..

That being said, Ayahuasca is often full of datura or a similar plant, which potentiates the DMT, making it active orally. This is great, but datura also has a strong deliriant effect, so you're much more likely to mistake the hair on your arms for spiders, and your lamp for a spaceship sending aliens who came to abduct you.

Remember, though - it's just a trip and nothing can hurt you.

Enjoy yourself, and the experience.

[tiggaling]

(03-13-2014 04:44 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

That being said, Ayahuasca is often full of datura or a similar plant, which potentiates the DMT, making it active orally. This is great, but datura also has a strong deliriant effect, so you're much more likely to mistake the hair on your arms for spiders, and your lamp for a spaceship sending aliens who came to abduct you.

Datura can be used as an admixture, but when utilised as an admixture people will not have this experience. They normally go deep into themselves and are not looking at their hand or at their lamp.

Datura just amplifies the positive aspects of Ayahuasca, with brighter visuals and so on - but on the other hand, it is rarely used in the west and it is more commonly used in South America, but even then, it is not well used and only a little bit of it is utilised.

[Elim]

(03-13-2014 04:44 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

Interestingly enough, anyone that has taken them almost certainly wouldn't tell other people not to at least try them

I just did. I consider myself a psychonaut, and I definitely believe there are some people who should not use drugs. It's ignorant to think everyone should do them and that they should be recommended to everyone. This is a very personal decision, and nobody should be pressured one way or the other.

[puckerman]

I am more and more intrigued by this, but going all the way to South America isn't really that easy. Is there any option here in the USA? I live in Austin, so I won't be surprised if there is something about it near here.

[Architekt]

(03-13-2014 09:30 AM)Elim Wrote:  

It's ignorant to think everyone should do them and that they should be recommended to everyone

It's ignorant to think that you can do whatever you want, while saying others can't - not to mention hypocritical

[tiggaling]

There is this going on in Austin as far as I know. Talk to people, put it out there if they know anything about this. Seek and you shall find.

Also, these Ayahuasca groups can be a good place to make connections to quality social circles, and meet conscious girls who generally want to take responsibility for their life.

[strengthstudent]

I took a heroic dose of psilocybin shrooms yesterday. Had an excellent trip, alone. It was very introspective and just joyful. It is funny that in many cases you lose the ability to understand things automatically -- you have to manually realize the meaning for words, how things relate to one another and so on. This kind of let's you re-think some of your values logically because in reality we may have many values which we didn't think for ourselves. Majority of these brainwashed values are illogical but they are rooted so deep inside you that you cannot help but react to them with illogical emotional responses. I just read Nathaniel Branden's Psychology of Self-esteem and he talked a lot about this how emotions are nothing but value-responses, where some values are logically thought reflecting the reality but some aren't.

During this trip I experienced first time this thing what people call the 'ego death'. Didn't expect it, didn't believe in it, didn't try to achieve it. It just happened. I believe I achieved the state momentarily for 3-4 times. It usually doesn't last very long because the ego and thoughts step back in very quickly. The moment you realize you have experienced the glimpse of sudden awakening, the understanding of it will destroy it.

Whole concept of zen is about seeing consistently the glimpses of the world outside the conceptual mind. The classic zen koans are often about making a paradox to your mind which lets you realize that everything is just what a mind does. It is fucking nuts and just irrational, illogical for the conceptual mind because it is outside of it. This whole thing doesn't make any sense, and that is kind of point of it, it makes sense by making not sense. You just cannot put a finger on it.

[strengthstudent]

empty

[blueshark747]

Seriously we are def gonna vomit before the hallucinating begins???

Screw that.....

[Steve9]

(03-17-2014 09:20 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  

During this trip I experienced first time this thing what people call the 'ego death'. Didn't expect it, didn't believe in it, didn't try to achieve it. It just happened. I believe I achieved the state momentarily for 3-4 times. It usually doesn't last very long because the ego and thoughts step back in very quickly. The moment you realize you have experienced the glimpse of sudden awakening, the understanding of it will destroy it.

For any guys that have experienced 'ego death' - how did that experience change your life afterwards. In what ways are you living differently that you did before?

[strengthstudent]

(03-17-2014 08:03 PM)Steve9 Wrote:  

For any guys that have experienced 'ego death' - how did that experience change your life afterwards. In what ways are you living differently that you did before?

Usually after the whole trip you just often enjoy more the life as it is. What changed for me is that the whole thing of getting depressed or anxious is preposterous. If you have things which are important for you, like career, you should take it seriously but not not be attached to the outcome if things don't go the way you expected. This applies very well to picking up girls too. I haven't gone out yet, but we will see how I'll do tomorrow when I do.

Quote:

The study involved 36 college-educated adults (average age of 46) who had never tried psilocybin nor had a history of drug use, and who had religious or spiritual interests. The participants were closely observed for eight-hour intervals in a laboratory while under the influence of psilocybin.

One-third of the participants reported the experience was the single most spiritually significant moment of their lives, and more than two-thirds reported it was among the top five most spiritually significant experiences. Two months after the study, 79% of the participants reported increased well-being or satisfaction; friends, relatives, and associates confirmed this. They also reported anxiety and depression symptoms to be decreased or completely gone. Fourteen months after the study, 64% of participants said they still experienced an increase in well-being or life satisfaction.

[Checkmat]

After listening to Amber Lyons talk about this topic on Joe Rogan's show this week, I'm glad there's an ongoing conversation about it. Couple of questions..

Does using ayahuasca show up in a 4 or 8-panel drug urinalysis?

Any negative aspects of ayahuasca? Everything seems to be all positive with no downsides besides the physical sickness. Any dangers that we should be aware of?

As someone who struggles with tons of anxiety, depression, insecurity and emotional issues, ayahuasca sounds like it'd be worth trying.

[urbannomad]

Are there any really good one week retreats with just 4 ceremonies and $900 or less ?

[LaserBear]

Checkmat..
There is no chance of testing positive for DMT.
They simply don't test for it, its in tons of plants, and your body naturally right now, and only psychoactive when taken with an MAOI inhibitor.
That's all ayahuasca is, some high DMT concentration plant + some MAOI inhibitor.

If you have serious anxiety issues you should probably take some other less intense psychedelics first... starting out dmt would be akin to cliff jumping into the ocean, to get over your fear of water, before you know how to swim, alone, at night.

Once your subconscious starts feeding your conscious its just you and yourself. That's the beauty of all hallucinogenic drugs, its just you and you, reflecting on yourself through the world around you.

I'd aim for LSD, mushrooms, or a 3rd plateau dxm trip (available at your local walgreens in both liquid and pill form) before you go running overseas to take the holy grail of hallucinogens.

Personally I am quite experienced with almost all hallucenogens (LSD, dxm, mushrooms, 2ci, 2ce, and diphenhydramine, salvia, ket, MDMA, etc). and id suggest considering these things before going in.
Family history of schizophrenia?
How well do you handle not being in control?
Have you tripped in the past and were you able to relax, remember you were on a drug, and enjoy the ride?
and
Are you well researched on all possible negatives and poaitives from a non biased source? If not your buying a trip without researching where you're going. You wouldn't do that with a plane, why do it with your consciousnesses.

Go to erowid.com
Research any drug you consider doing, they have experience reports, scientific studies, dosage estimates, everything you could possibly need for every chem imaginable.
(https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/...asca.shtml is the ayahuasca experience vaults)

Don't lightly go into a trip. That's how people end up freaking out. This is a vision quest. Treat it with reverence for you only get out what you put in.

LSD and DXM helped me cure my depression, but they were the means... not the end. I highly recommend tripping to deal with personal issues, just be sure to use it as a tool to evaluate your life from a new perspective, not an escape.

DMT is the only mainstream trip I have not experienced, but all of my friends who have compare it to salvia in strength, and I would not send someone to salvia for a first trip.... it would be too much to comprehend.

If you are experienced, trip away.

Go read experience reports for ayahuasca and DMT (same drug different effect lengths, will be easy to split apart in reports) on erowid.
Just essays of peoples experiences.
Find the similarities and prepare before you go in.
Its just safety prepping.
Then, trip away if you feel confident.

Best of luck man.

[puckerman]

I'm still very interested in finding a shaman here in the USA. I don't want to spend all that money to travel to South America.

[strengthstudent]

I smoked DMT a while ago. Had problems inhaling it(was very harsh + had a sore throat from flu) and managed to get only a "strong" 5 minute trip with intense visuals but nothing groundbreaking. Will be trying with a stronger dose in coming days, hopefully managing to get a full short psychosis with the trip.

I will also try Ayahuasca this Summer with a friend. Maybe some day I will have a real ritual but until I get rich enough, this has to suffice.

[puckerman]

Please let us know all about your experience.

[strengthstudent]

I did Ayahuasca with 2 friends yesterday with peganum harmala + syrian rue. I was the shaman and brewed the drinks.

Lots of puking... two of us couldn't keep the shit inside for long enough(minimum of 30 minutes) and it ruined our trips. I threw up at the beginning for like 5 times and then again 1 hour later for 5 times. After 2 hours we brewed second rounds of drinks but with half the dose, and managed to keep them in and breakthrough. Unfortunately due to the half dose, the trip wasn't as intense as it could have been, but I went pretty deep for 2 hours. In addition to re-evaluation my relationships with all of my family members, I could feel the substance(or "energy") which these relationships consist of. The another interesting experience was seeing my whole consciousness and trying to chase the thoughts. It felt like my whole consciousness was like a huge congress hall where all of my thoughts were separate persons or "entities". When I noticed thinking of one thing, someone else shouted the next thought from "across the hall".

That one friend of mine who managed to keep the maximal dose inside was really the whole duration of the trip in his own head. He didn't puke once. He said the trip was half good, and half bad but super intense nevertheless. At the beginning he was smiling for hours(his trip was almost twice as long due to the dose), then the last hours he had this blank stare and at some point he sobbed for half a hour. I asked him if he wanted to do this again and he said: "not for a long time".

In comparison to other psychedelics, our ayahuasca(mimosahuasca) was very little visual(compare that to shrooms which are super visual, or acid) but very deep inside the head. Mostly eyes closed visuals and hallucinations, eyes open only mild. My friend who experienced the full dose said the same. The "original" ayahuasca could be different(there are d. caapi ayahuasca, peganum harmala(mimosahuasca) and pharmahuasca(dmt powder). Some shamans also put some shrooms into their ayahuasca which can make it more visual.

Someone who isn't me will be trying this again in near future(maybe next month).

[TonySandos]

I have a question.

Would any hallucinogens be problematic to take during a semester or learning period at work? I'm wondering if any would inadvertently cause forgetfulness of recently learned concepts or vocabulary. Is it just best to do trips during vacation esque periods?

[strengthstudent]

(06-15-2014 03:03 AM)TonySandos Wrote:  

I have a question.

Would any hallucinogens be problematic to take during a semester or learning period at work? I'm wondering if any would inadvertently cause forgetfulness of recently learned concepts or vocabulary. Is it just best to do trips during vacation esque periods?

I haven't had any problems. I tripped yesterday and been studying some heavy mathematical stuff for a couple of hours today. I don't think it is easy to study the day you take any substance but the next day when you wake up, you are feeling exactly the same as before but with new experiences. In other words, a trip during a weekend shouldn't have any interference with work/studying. They say only MDMA has a hangover period after the use but I have never tried it.

typo fixing to my last post Wrote:

The "original" ayahuasca could be different(there are p. viridis ayahuasca(the original), mimosa hostilis(mimosahuasca) and pharmahuasca(dmt powder)