[StrikeBack]

(03-10-2014 11:26 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Strikeback, how do you determine what your weaknesses are?

There are many kinds of weaknesses, which would take me all day, so my short answer would be intuition and experience.

Generally I'd get the lifter to do a range of movements / exercises that could potentially expose imbalances and glaring weaknesses. Whichever exercise is hated by the lifter is often the one they're very weak at and need to do more often.

To give you some examples:

Obvious one: if the guy is sucking wind in some basic KB swings for 20 reps that I know he should be able to handle, while flying through the various curls and tricep extensions, he gets to swing more and curl less.

If I have a feeling that a lifter has weak abs (back rounding too much in deadlift, or falling forward in squats), I get him to do Ab Wheel rollouts or Hollow Body Position and observe how his back sags, his faceplanting or screaming like someone just stuck a knife in his gut. Then he gets to do abs everyday.

Experience shows me that most balanced lifters have a ratio of X:Y between a lift and one of its variations. e.g your incline bench press or military press should be within a certain percentage range of your normal bench press. If it's too low, then your shoulders are weak and therefore you should be doing more volume on incline / military press.

If a lifter is weak at a certain part of the movement, e.g weak off the chest in the bench press, he gets to spend more time there e.g the fix is to make him do lots of paused bench press on the chest.

(03-10-2014 12:59 PM)se7en Wrote:  

Thanks for this write up -- One question : Why don't you include full deadlifts in your plans for non-powerlifters?

My general principle is that powerlifting is a sport, so unless someone is keen on competing, I don't force the sport onto them. Variations of the competition lifts that suit them more are better. They'd squat, but it might be high bar or front squat, press something, but not necessarily the barbell bench press etc.

The full deadlift for non-powerlifters and novice powerlifters alike is better as a demonstration of strength than an exercise to train for strength. It is one of the heaviest free weight lifts you can do, can quickly turn into an ego lift absent the watchful eyes of a coach. For newbies who often have glaring imbalances and weaknesses, that can be dangerous. e.g they overuse the back while not engaging abs or legs properly. I deem the risks too high for the benefits.

Newbies are better off getting the whole body stronger through a variety of exercises, and only deadlift sparingly to check progress (if they're powerlifters) or not at all if they aren't competing powerlifters. Instead of deadlifts, they can build the same strength through: squats, abs work, rows, back ext, GHR, heavy KB swings etc.

FYI, I built my 3xBW deadlift through deadlifting very little, even now. I work up to 3x3 or 5x2 top sets once a week.

Later on though, as your whole body is balanced and strong, you will benefit from deadlifting more often to build a better groove / technique.

(03-11-2014 04:38 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

Great information. What do you think about rest periods between sets? Some programs recommend long ones (5-10 minutes!) while others insist that you should keep them short (1 minute max).

I'm under the impression that long rest periods are better for strength training but I simply don't have the time to burn. Does it make a difference for strength/mass gains?

Strength can be built through long, medium and short rests. They all work, but they work with different programs. A program that calls for 8 sets of 2-3 reps not to failure, leaving 1-2 reps in the tank, will need shorter rest. A program that calls for 3 sets of 5 reps done as heavy as possible, with the potential of failure, will need longer rest.

Technically for max strength (on the big compound lifts), you would like ATP - the main energy source - to be regenerated fully before taking on the next set, but you only need 2 mins for that, provided that your aerobic fitness is adequate and you're not sucking wind still.

A good rule of thumb is to rest as much as you need, but no more. Beyond a couple of mins, it's mostly psychological, not physiological.

I used to do long rest, but since I started training like the Russians and Chinese (lots of submaximal sets for 2-3 reps), I've gone the opposite and now do very short rests (relative to other powerlifters). With the big lifts, I use 30s during warmup sets, and max 2 mins on the top work sets. I tell people I coach that 2-3 mins are the max rest time for top sets, and if they feel they need more than that, they should take some weights off the bar as clearly it's too heavy. With assistant lifts, I superset and hardly rest.

There's one exception. Closer to competition, as I do more maximal lifts (skill testing), I'd rest 7-10 mins to mimic the time between attempts (waiting for other guys to take to the platform) on comp day.

For mass gain, one principle rules them all: "time under tension". Therefore shorter rest is better.

[rhodey]

(03-07-2014 08:10 PM)Switch Wrote:  

I don't think this chart should be taken seriously. It doesn't take height into account. I would think that makes a big difference. For example a 6-4 guy at 200 pounds would probably lift different weight from a 5-6 guy at the same weight. I do think this is a good starting guide, though. Apparently my only lift that is up to standard is bench, but I do exclusively bodyweight now and my gains are coming faster than ever.

A 200lb 6-4 guy with proportionately long arms would probably have an easier time Deadlifting than a short armed barrel chested 5-6 200 pounder considering everything else is equal. The converse may be true when considering the bench press.

[Billy Chubbs]

As long as they're liftin' and in shape, number's ain't nothin' but a thing...which is how I console myself, considering I only break advanced in one category.

Makes me feel

Cool that there's a lot of SS/SL guys in here. It's how I got my start too.

[nogamenick]

Safely in the intermediate category for pretty much all..some advanced. But then I train for hypertrophy exclusively. Thanks for posting this! Very insightfull

[UrbanNerd]

I don’t think one has to be exactly in any of those categories. Also age plays a role. You have to have a good body shape. At the end of the day, chicks don't care about your 1-rep max. It is not like you will do squats at a social gathering.

[fortysix]

(03-12-2014 05:20 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

I don’t think one has to be exactly in any of those categories. Also age plays a role. You have to have a good body shape. At the end of the day, chicks don't care about your 1-rep max. It is not like you will do squats at a social gathering.

Yeah man, maybe, but I get a mad rush after I breakthrough a deadlift PR.

(03-11-2014 08:43 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

My general principle is that powerlifting is a sport, so unless someone is keen on competing, I don't force the sport onto them. Variations of the competition lifts that suit them more are better. They'd squat, but it might be high bar or front squat, press something, but not necessarily the barbell bench press etc.

The full deadlift for non-powerlifters and novice powerlifters alike is better as a demonstration of strength than an exercise to train for strength. It is one of the heaviest free weight lifts you can do, can quickly turn into an ego lift absent the watchful eyes of a coach. For newbies who often have glaring imbalances and weaknesses, that can be dangerous. e.g they overuse the back while not engaging abs or legs properly. I deem the risks too high for the benefits.

Newbies are better off getting the whole body stronger through a variety of exercises, and only deadlift sparingly to check progress (if they're powerlifters) or not at all if they aren't competing powerlifters. Instead of deadlifts, they can build the same strength through: squats, abs work, rows, back ext, GHR, heavy KB swings etc.

FYI, I built my 3xBW deadlift through deadlifting very little, even now. I work up to 3x3 or 5x2 top sets once a week.

Later on though, as your whole body is balanced and strong, you will benefit from deadlifting more often to build a better groove / technique.

I am probably an intermediate weightlifter and only started deadlifting this year. Its one of my favorite exercises simply because, well, it feels good to pick up a heavy barbell from the floor. I have not had proper coaching and sometimes I fear that I may be putting undue stress on my back.

What are your thoughts on when people say that deadlifts are essential to forming a strong and well rounded back?

How long have you been training seriously, and how did you actually progress to becoming a coach?

Thanks

[Kid Strangelove]

I just got me a pair of lifting shoes, can't wait to see what kind of impact they have - guess I'll see Monday - aka squat day

[berserk]

How about a stickied weight lifting thread on this forum I think? Or just a dedicated weight lifting thread? A lot of good info, but it drowns in so many threads.

[StrikeBack]

(03-13-2014 11:48 PM)se7en Wrote:  

I am probably an intermediate weightlifter and only started deadlifting this year. Its one of my favorite exercises simply because, well, it feels good to pick up a heavy barbell from the floor. I have not had proper coaching and sometimes I fear that I may be putting undue stress on my back.

What are your thoughts on when people say that deadlifts are essential to forming a strong and well rounded back?

The deadlift is a great back exercise, but when people say Exercise X is great for blah blah, you need to question: for whom? It is a big mistake to copy an exercise and/or its rep/set scheme that is proven successful for a higher level lifter and give it to a lower level lifter while expecting the same result.

The problem with throwing the full conventional deadlift to a newbie, even intermediate one, is that it is a lift that you can use the most weights in, relatively. If you train for lower reps (5 or less) the weights can be too heavy for a newbie and tend to encourage poor form. Newbies and even intermediate lifters don't yet have the skills to lift heavy weights with good form and tend to have lots of imbalances and lack the basic coordination. Most common is too much back, not enough legs and abs. Second most common is poor or complete lack of hip hinging. Tightly related to that is the lack of glute activation.

FYI, when I deadlift these days, I feel it in my abs and glutes the next day more than back. Earlier on, it was way more back.

Using higher reps with the conventional deadlift off the floor also is not too great, as it's very taxing for the low back, which doesn't particularly recover as well as other parts.

So while the deadlift can hit everything hard and is a great exercise in that case, it requires a more advanced skill level to be effective. Lower level lifters cannot recruit enough of the body to make good use of it, and can't train enough volume to make it worthwhile anyway.

For lower level lifters, a variation of the lift might be more appropriate. Stiff-legged Deadlift or Romanian Deadlift can be done with higher reps and use lower weights by default. Heavy KB swings teach hip hinging better, and also train explosiveness and actually develop the low back very well. Barbell hip thrusts are better for glutes. Glute Ham Raise is better for hamstrings. Rows (barbell or DB) are better for upper back. Hit the abs hard to support the back. Or just squat more - the high bar squat has great carryover to the deadlift. All of those can be done with higher reps which are better for newbies. Lower reps, like 5 or less, are better for more advanced lifters who have learned how to recruit more muscles and explode properly with high tension techniques.

TL;DR: for newbies to intermediate lifters, get the whole body strong via higher reps / volume of a variety of lifts, and use the deadlift to demonstrate strength. Later on, when you're more advanced, you can increase deadlift volume to squeeze more strength out through more efficient technique.

Quote:

How long have you been training seriously, and how did you actually progress to becoming a coach?

About 4 years. While I'm not very strong, I learn movements very well (thus having good techniques), am good at explaining / showing people how to lift, and at spotting & correcting errors / weaknesses, which were why my head coach got me into coaching. I consider myself more a student of lifting than a lifter, and continue my education through a variety of means, some directly from the best lifters in my country. I coach for fun to further my learning, and for my family & close friends (as I can't find them reliable PTs where they live).

[berserk]

(03-16-2014 08:17 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

FYI, when I deadlift these days, I feel it in my abs and glutes the next day more than back. Earlier on, it was way more back.

Same here and I also agree the deadlift is "dangerous" because it is an ego lift, where you can quickly move some big weight and feel like the strongest guy in the room.

It's still a great lift though, it really works a lot of muscle groups. It works abs, glutes, hams, biceps, lower back, upper back, everything but pecs and triceps.

It gives that strong, firm core.

These days I lift much lighter than before though and rather do 5 sets than 5 heavy singles.

[Blondelover]

I respect those who put the effort into this, but it is absolutely not necessary for game.

I am a skinny ectomorph with stick arms and this has been no impediment whatsoever in my journey towards poon. A woman's perception of a man's physique is, ironically, not physical. Her perception of the man's value with heavily influence what she thinks of his looks.

[RexImperator]

strstd.com has moved to here:

http://www.strengthstandards.co/#/home

[Mike0060]

I'm intermediate for all lifts but I'm only 5 months. I'd like to be in the elite category for all lifts someday. Don't have to be #1. Just in the top 1%.

[H1N1]

Interesting. Comfortably into advanced for everything except bench, which I'm barely intermediate for. Hardly surprising, I didn't do it for years because I didn't want to be 'one of those douchebag gym bros'. Paying for it now.

[The Beast1]

i'm squarely between novice and intermediate on all of the lifts (don't do cleans).

Mad jelly at you guys who are in the advanced zone. How long did it take to get there?

Rex, you've got a naturally big frame so freakish genetics is your gift

[H1N1]

(07-14-2015 02:33 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

i'm squarely between novice and intermediate on all of the lifts (don't do cleans).

Mad jelly at you guys who are in the advanced zone. How long did it take to get there?

Rex, you've got a naturally big frame so freakish genetics is your gift

I would say approximately a year of doing everything right. But it took me a few years to reach the point where I could do a year doing everything right.

For cracking into advanced, the numbers are quite low compared to serious strength athletes, and I'd say it is a good table for the averagely gifted to work with - meaning over the course of a training lifetime, getting comfortably into advanced should be possible for almost all.

[TonySandos]

I feel like a dick for TLDR the whole last page, but has a conclusion been reached on the accuracy of this list's standards?

I'm in the 132 range and all the categories I checked looked reasonable

Edit: Just looked at the 132 weight standards(which is what I fluctuate between the most at 127 to 145) again.

I have to say that I legitimately wonder if my back would survive the elite level on the squat. Is that supposed to be with training wheels? I've never been masterful at squats though I feel like I should.

[alexdagr81]

I am advanced in all except the clean, I have never used a belt either.

[christpuncher]

Damn you're a lot of strong guys. I'm just above novice in all of these except clean, which I'm slightly below.
Still, I'm pretty sure I'm stronger than 80% of men I see out there, which I guess is saying something bad about men in general...

[blackaldr]

I'm midway between advanced and elite for all of the lifts.

[zatara]

I saw that chart years ago on the old exrx site, which was fantastic. The muscle map and the associated gifs for each body part demonstrating exercise movement were a great resource.

Most guys should be able to hit the 'Advanced' level of lifting from that chart within 3 or 4 years of proper training, I think. That'd be enough to place you in the top 10% of guys physically, presuming you're also in decent all-round shape (ie you're not a fat mess - you do some cardio). It's pretty achievable. Most guys I know who played rugby semi-seriously in college would be at around that level.

[Sonoma]

I'm pretty close to untrained/novice for everything

On the plus side, my body doesn't look fat

[Mess O.]

I've been training consistently for 9 years now, and have charted every session for the last 5. Now, if only I could harness what's kept me motivated all this while and impart it onto the fellas, so I can get some stable training partners.

[Agastya]

I'm deadlifting 345 at 165 lbs, where do I fit into this?

[heavy]

(07-17-2015 01:18 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

I'm deadlifting 345 at 165 lbs, where do I fit into this?

Why did you post that?

(07-14-2015 12:42 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

strstd.com has moved to here:

http://www.strengthstandards.co/#/home