A fat person has you pinned down on the ground- how do you escape?
Quote: (02-22-2014 03:29 AM)Draugr Wrote:
@Rio,
If he is close enough to bite my nose off, then so am I.
No, you aren't.
For one, he's on top, so he controls where your face is. All it takes is one hand on your head to control where your nose, ear, whatever is, lean in, and bite it off. You will not be able to move your head to bite back. Besides that, he's on top and and can easily pull away. You are on bottom, and will be stuck there with no chance of defense.
Quote: (02-22-2014 03:47 AM)Draugr Wrote:
Also if they lean in to bite, pull them in for a choke.
You're obviously clueless about this. You're not choking anyone while you're mounted or on bottom side control.
Quote: (02-22-2014 02:59 AM)Statsi Wrote:
He could bite your nose off at any point anyway, or slit your throat. You don't know his intentions, I'm not fighting in the street for style points, the moment an attacker tries to control you, or does physical harm, is the moment you trigger the animalistic all bets off fighting.
Yeah he could, but it's extremely rare. However, if you go and significantly escalate the situation while you're pinned and helpless, it makes it much more likley he's going to respond much more brutally.
Not to mention, how to do you plan to use your groin strikes on someone while you're pinned underneath them? Even if you could hit them, you have no leverage and your punches will have no power. You're just going to escalate the situation into something much more violent while you're trapped on the ground.
As far as eye gouges, you won't be able to reach their eyes. If they are on top, they can hit you, and you can't him them back. They can also control your wrists super easily from top, and you are left helpless.
Had you ever stepped on the mats, you'd know that being pinned by someone much larger than you is a very bad situation, and your groin strikes will do nothing other than supremely piss them off.
There is no offense to mount while you're pinned under someone. You have to escape before you can attack.
Quote: (02-22-2014 04:02 AM)Draugr Wrote:
Its a guillotine from the guard.
First you were talking about escaping mount now you're talking about a different position.
Quote: (02-22-2014 01:50 AM)Draugr Wrote:
Bridge, post, and shrimp out from underneath.
If that doesn't work, try pain compliance. I had good results with finger and wrist locks. Death grips on anything loose can induce a lot of pain, if you have the finger strength.
If you can't get a grip try striking some vital points. The bladder, floating ribs, solar plexus. But this is tough to do as fat has protective properties.
Just cut them open and all the fat might pour out.
Play possum and wait for them to get hungry
Well, you're not going to like it, but if you can reach....
Stick your finger in his asshole. In wrestling they called this "picking his corn," though I fortunately never witnessed anyone actually do it.
You better believe that such a move would make any guy squirm off of you as fast as he could, giving you a chance to get away. haha
You better hope he doesn't regain his composure quickly enough to hold you down though because he's surely going to try his best to beat your brains after a stunt like that.
Stick your finger in his asshole. In wrestling they called this "picking his corn," though I fortunately never witnessed anyone actually do it.
You better believe that such a move would make any guy squirm off of you as fast as he could, giving you a chance to get away. haha
You better hope he doesn't regain his composure quickly enough to hold you down though because he's surely going to try his best to beat your brains after a stunt like that.
Beyond All Seas
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
@Poosywrecker,
Fighting is like having sex, sticking to one position means you're getting fucked.
Fighting is like having sex, sticking to one position means you're getting fucked.
Quote: (02-22-2014 12:48 AM)RioNomad Wrote:This was my go to move since i was smaller than everyone else.
However doing the bridge never fails to throw someone off balance, i have done it to guys almost 70 pounds heavier than me.
Ive practiced techniques to escape from mount for a year and im not even close to being good at them. So expecting to do something even remotely similar in a fighting situation for an untrained guy is wishful thinking.
We used to do drills with the teacher on top of us with boxing gloves and he would hit us until we escaped. The adrenaline rush makes you forget technique if youre not used to getting hit in that position.
I will say thought that there is a proper way to mount someone its not like you fell on his stomach and start opening up his eyebrown via elbows like in the UFC, its really easy to lose balance, and at least for me personally my punches dont have anywhere near the same force as when im standing up. Youre pretty much hammer fisting the other guy. Most guys will not be able to hold that position very long and throw good punches, unless of course you just lay there with your legs straight covering your face.
I would recommend anyone to just do the bridge (that would give enough space to move out your hips against most untrained guys), and then just slide your hips out, there was a move where you roll over to one side i cant even remember whats its called in spanish (maybe rio knows?) , but again you would have to train for it. From there push away the guy with your legs putting your feet on his hip, and get up as fast as you can.
Bench him off of me
I don't know about it being very rare. For my age group in my country murder is the number one cause of death for men my age, so I'm more likely to die from a guy attacking me that any other way. For the groin attack reaching down and squeezing/yanking on his testes would be the plan. This is the method women in India use to murder their husbands, you better believe there's less of a strength difference between me and my attacker than a man vs a woman.
It's rare that some random is going to attack you and end your life, sure granted. It's incredibly common once a fight has begun for the losing party to end up with permanent damage.
It's rare that some random is going to attack you and end your life, sure granted. It's incredibly common once a fight has begun for the losing party to end up with permanent damage.
Also I've trained jiu jitsu in my youth, by all means disagree with fighting back incase it escalates the situation, but trying to void my points by alleging it's a lack of mat experience is a bullshit argument. I've been torn apart by bigger guys who have managed to get mount, which is why I said the best thing to do is to avoid it happening in the first place. Once is happens though this assumption you're better laying there rather than rolling the dice is not for me.
Is this a serious thread or just one of those kinda serious kinda funny threads?
Most of the posts seem to be competing for who can come up with the most witty response.
Grabbing a guy`s balls? How? His groin is buried in your stomach
Bench him off me? No comment
Biting or gouging eyes? Youre not gonna be close enough to bite anything, and as far as gouging the eyes from that position he can just grab one of your fingers and try to break it, not to mention arm bar if he has training.
Again i dont know if some of this responses are serious but im assuming a guest might come in here read this and think well im not gonna find any value in this forum.
Most of the posts seem to be competing for who can come up with the most witty response.
Grabbing a guy`s balls? How? His groin is buried in your stomach
Bench him off me? No comment
Biting or gouging eyes? Youre not gonna be close enough to bite anything, and as far as gouging the eyes from that position he can just grab one of your fingers and try to break it, not to mention arm bar if he has training.
Again i dont know if some of this responses are serious but im assuming a guest might come in here read this and think well im not gonna find any value in this forum.
Quote: (02-22-2014 07:21 AM)Statsi Wrote:
Also I've trained jiu jitsu in my youth, by all means disagree with fighting back incase it escalates the situation, but trying to void my points by alleging it's a lack of mat experience is a bullshit argument. I've been torn apart by bigger guys who have managed to get mount, which is why I said the best thing to do is to avoid it happening in the first place. Once is happens though this assumption you're better laying there rather than rolling the dice is not for me.
Did you train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Really?
I obviously never said not to fight back. You're trolling me now and twisting my words.
You do have a lack of mat experience, I know because you said "I've trained jiu jitsu in my youth". So I know you've never really trained BJJ extensively, and probably trained some other bullshit form of Ju Jitsu.
This whole thread is about not laying there, and about escaping. Again, you're making shit up.
Quote: (02-22-2014 07:18 AM)Statsi Wrote:
For the groin attack reaching down and squeezing/yanking on his testes would be the plan. This is the method women in India use to murder their husbands,
Ok lol. But I'm telling you, if you had ever really trained, you'd know there is no chance you are going to reach down and rip someones balls off. I know it seems possible to someone who doesn't train, but to someone whose trained for nearly 4 years with BJJ black belts and pro MMA fighters, I can tell you, when you're pinned on the ground, you really won't be able to do that.
Quote: (02-22-2014 05:34 AM)Draugr Wrote:
@Poosywrecker,
Fighting is like having sex, sticking to one position means you're getting fucked.
Which is exactly what this thread is about, is getting out from under a bad position.
You have a lot of cute one liners in here though. You've trained for less than 6 months, right? I mean really trained, not shown up here and there for a coupe months, quit going, then showed back up a year later only to quit 4 months later again. That doesn't equal 1.5 years.
More of the same from you, just implying I don't know enough bjj so I'm full of it. I stopped training when I got into lines of work that depended on me not being injured or bruised. I could easily say you couldn't escape if the guy on top knows what he's doing, that he's better at fighting and out to kill you. In that case you are fucked, do you have anything to actually contribute than if the guy is better you're fucked and if only I knew more jiu jitsu I'd agree with you? Cause that's some logical fallacy nonsense. It's not about that guy, it's about what you can do. It's not about how much mat time I've had, it's about what you can do when a guy pins you.
Hell, just lie there while the dude decides on how merciful he's feeling. After all it's not that common that you get hurt right?
Maybe if you had any actual experience in street fights you'd know your cute jiu jitsu escapes don't matter once the guys pinning you, see that fallacy is pretty easy and still pointless. I don't fight for fun, I don't have a point to prove in a street fight. If a dude is pinning me it's because he's randomly attacked me, when a random attack begins how bad does it usually get?
Hell, just lie there while the dude decides on how merciful he's feeling. After all it's not that common that you get hurt right?
Maybe if you had any actual experience in street fights you'd know your cute jiu jitsu escapes don't matter once the guys pinning you, see that fallacy is pretty easy and still pointless. I don't fight for fun, I don't have a point to prove in a street fight. If a dude is pinning me it's because he's randomly attacked me, when a random attack begins how bad does it usually get?
What you can do when a guy pins you has a lot to do with mat time (experience and repetitions) and correct technique found in Brazilian Jits. The only kind of Scottish Ju Jutsu technique I've ever seen is the kind of arguing you're doing on this thread.
Quote: (02-22-2014 11:45 AM)Statsi Wrote:
More of the same from you, just implying I don't know enough bjj so I'm full of it. I stopped training when I got into lines of work that depended on me not being injured or bruised. I could easily say you couldn't escape if the guy on top knows what he's doing, that he's better at fighting and out to kill you. In that case you are fucked, do you have anything to actually contribute than if the guy is better you're fucked and if only I knew more jiu jitsu I'd agree with you? Cause that's some logical fallacy nonsense. It's not about that guy, it's about what you can do. It's not about how much mat time I've had, it's about what you can do when a guy pins you.
Hell, just lie there while the dude decides on how merciful he's feeling. After all it's not that common that you get hurt right?
Maybe if you had any actual experience in street fights you'd know your cute jiu jitsu escapes don't matter once the guys pinning you, see that fallacy is pretty easy and still pointless. I don't fight for fun, I don't have a point to prove in a street fight. If a dude is pinning me it's because he's randomly attacked me, when a random attack begins how bad does it usually get?
You're an ESL student, right?
I never said it isn't common for people to get hurt in street fights. I said it isn't common for them to get their faces eaten. You're blatantly twisting my words in every one of your rebuttals.
And again, I clearly never said to just lie on the ground with the dude on top of you, please quote where I said that. This whole thread is about escaping while you are pinned. That obviously does not mean to lie there.
You're giving terribly ignorant advice that will get people hurt if they follow it. We both know you are arguing just to argue, and have no experience with what you are talking about.
Quote: (02-22-2014 11:45 AM)Statsi Wrote:Of course if a guy is bigger than you and knows jiujitsu or wrestling sorry but youre not getting out, youre staying there until he decides hes had enough.
I could easily say you couldn't escape if the guy on top knows what he's doing, that he's better at fighting and out to kill you.
In that case you are fucked, do you have anything to actually contribute than if the guy is better you're fucked and if only I knew more jiu jitsu I'd agree with you?
Cause that's some logical fallacy nonsense. It's not about that guy, it's about what you can do. It's not about how much mat time I've had, it's about what you can do when a guy pins you.
There is no hail mary punch/gouging/biting that can save you against a more skilled opponent.
Stating the obvious? Maybe dont go around looking for trouble if you cant deal with the consequences?
The OP was what can you do (assuming an untrained guy with an obvious weight disadvantage) when someone holds him in the ground in the mount position. The only thing to do in that position is to do the bridge to try to throw him off balance long enough to get your legs free and get up. Thats it.
Why would anyone with no training want to stay in the ground and grapple a bigger opponent?
An untrained guy that also knows what he's doing? The reason you can't eye gouge is that if he knows what he's doing he'll break your arm, the reason you can't groin strike is that he knows what he's doing so keeps his groin pressed into your stomach.
Just in case a fat person gets you pinned, you could carry a packet of oil or lube and release it on them. Then you could slide them off.
Quote: (02-22-2014 01:00 PM)soup Wrote:
Just in case a fat person gets you pinned, you could carry a packet of oil or lube and release it on them. Then you could slide them off.
Not bad Soup, but you obviously never trained in the butter attack.
My go to move is to carry some chicken wings in my pockets. I will throw them away from me and when he goes for the feeding frenzy I will slip away.
Now that I type this, I am starting to think the chicken wings is why the fat people are trying to smother me. It's like they can smell it miles away. Maybe it's time to find a new go to move.
My mistake, when you said it wasn't common I thought you meant serious injury. I don't want to argue about a hypothetical, we both have said it's best not to allow it to happen in the first place. I think if it does happen it's a precurser to serious damage and you should try anything, regardless of how little chance of success, to escape. You have said that doing so may escalate the situation.
Maybe if I had your experience on the mat I would agree with you, who knows. Maybe if you had experienced more knife attacks you would agree with me, who knows.
Maybe if I had your experience on the mat I would agree with you, who knows. Maybe if you had experienced more knife attacks you would agree with me, who knows.
The other technique is to always carry a roll of Velcro. If a fat gets you down you can put Velcro on it and Velcro it's limbs to it's body.
If you do it right, the arms will be vrlcored to it's back and legs .. It will be a ball of velcroed fat that you can easily roll off of you and into a mud puddle.
You can also stick hot peppers in it's folds.
If you do it right, the arms will be vrlcored to it's back and legs .. It will be a ball of velcroed fat that you can easily roll off of you and into a mud puddle.
You can also stick hot peppers in it's folds.
Quote: (02-22-2014 01:30 PM)soup Wrote:
The other technique is to always carry a roll of Velcro. If a fat gets you down you can put Velcro on it and Velcro it's limbs to it's body.
If you do it right, the arms will be vrlcored to it's back and legs .. It will be a ball of velcroed fat that you can easily roll off of you and into a mud puddle.
You can also stick hot peppers in it's folds.
Then smother him in honey. Get back a safe distance. Wait for bears. Pull out the popcorn and enjoy the show...
.
.
...stop looking at me like that.
Wald
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