[quaker13]

[ballsyamog]

Blck how tall are you

[asdfk]

I'll give some background.

Women will of course pay attention to a tall or muscular man in their near vicinity. They would be stupid not to, since this man can fuck them up physically. They feel nervous being in the presence of someone who is much bigger and stronger than them. Any tall guy knows what happens when he picks up a small girl, wether said guy has muscles or not.

Now, how a woman responds to the nervousness she feels when confronted with a stranger that is so strong, is dependent on several factors. The most relevant is that if the guy looks friendly, she might mistake her nervousness for attraction (because the physical sensations are similar). If you can make a woman nervous and at the same time convey you are friendly, there is a high chance she will make a (false) assumption her nervousness must mean she is attracted.

The exact same response - where she attributes nervousness to sexual attraction - can be accomplished with game.

I cannot take credit for the above finding, but I have seen time and time again how effective it is. Again, think of what happens when you (physically) pick a girl up that you know and how much she likes it. You can incite the same with your body language and you do not have to be the strongest man in the room to do so.

Picking up a girl and holding her in your arms is completely free, yet will have a similar emotional effect. You can incite that emotional effect as well without touching them, but that is for a different thread.

Or you can spend years and years in the gym so you don't have to learn how to put a woman in a state like this. That's also an option.

[rudebwoy]

Utter BS

[zatara]

(02-26-2019 04:01 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

Due to privacy concerns, I will not state publicly where exactly I did not experience a rise in SMV after getting in amazing shape.

Just imagine a 2nd-tier city in a Western European or Nordic country with an excess of men in a pre-instagram era. Where many people are highly educated. You never see anyone with a shirt off because it is too cold.

I wish I had an explanation why my SMV did not increase, but I don't. I just know that it didn't and that my muscles were useless to pick up chicks.

Insult to injury, the biggest player I knew was built like a toothpick. We became eskimo brothers several times.

So you're basing your entire highly questionable argument off of your experience in one city, 10 odd years ago, which you won't even name the country of?

Despite this completely contradicting the life experience of almost every other poster in this thread (in many wildly different locations), widely accepted advice on the Roosh forum, well researched behavioral psychology and everything else.

As rudebwoy accurately sums it up: utter BS.

[Savonarola]

(02-27-2019 12:12 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

I'd believe the female looks in this video more if half the jacked guys weren't walking around shirtless in a crowd of clothed people. It's apples and oranges.
Put those same guys in shirts and they wouldn't get quite the same stares.
They'd get some, but not all.

[Repo]

I still feel unless if you've done a heavy cycle and have lived as both a jacked guy and a natty but in shape guy, then you dont know what your talking about because you havent lived as both. Your just guessing based off what you see.

[realologist]

(02-27-2019 03:36 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

I'll give some background.

Women will of course pay attention to a tall or muscular man in their near vicinity. They would be stupid not to, since this man can fuck them up physically. They feel nervous being in the presence of someone who is much bigger and stronger than them. Any tall guy knows what happens when he picks up a small girl, wether said guy has muscles or not.

Now, how a woman responds to the nervousness she feels when confronted with a stranger that is so strong, is dependent on several factors. The most relevant is that if the guy looks friendly, she might mistake her nervousness for attraction (because the physical sensations are similar). If you can make a woman nervous and at the same time convey you are friendly, there is a high chance she will make a (false) assumption her nervousness must mean she is attracted.

The exact same response - where she attributes nervousness to sexual attraction - can be accomplished with game.

I cannot take credit for the above finding, but I have seen time and time again how effective it is. Again, think of what happens when you (physically) pick a girl up that you know and how much she likes it. You can incite the same with your body language and you do not have to be the strongest man in the room to do so.

Picking up a girl and holding her in your arms is completely free, yet will have a similar emotional effect. You can incite that emotional effect as well without touching them, but that is for a different thread.

Or you can spend years and years in the gym so you don't have to learn how to put a woman in a state like this. That's also an option.

[The Usual Suspect]

So why don’t your precious body builders ever top the lists/poll in women’s magazine etc as worlds sexiest men throughout the ages?

There is a point of diminishing returns...bottom line is have a physique that “suits” you. It’s probably more important the confidence you derive from it, so roll how you want too

Like any women or man we all have preferences, but a fully jacked guy will have a narrower attraction catchment, but will obviously still get attention. Women who like that look are probably more aggressive in expressing it though...cave man biology etc

I bet you a guy with a Brad Pitt fight club type body would get more attention walking around the same street shirtless

[Moma]

(02-28-2019 06:50 AM)The Usual Suspect Wrote:  

So why don’t your precious body builders ever top the lists/poll in women’s magazine etc as worlds sexiest men throughout the ages?

There is a point of diminishing returns...bottom line is have a physique that “suits” you. It’s probably more important the confidence you derive from it, so roll how you want too

Like any women or man we all have preferences, but a fully jacked guy will have a narrower attraction catchment, but will obviously still get attention. Women who like that look are probably more aggressive in expressing it though...cave man biology etc

I bet you a guy with a Brad Pitt fight club type body would get more attention walking around the same street shirtless

If you use what women say as a gauge to how they feel sexually, you will shortchange yourself savagely in the sexual market and develop a strong possibility of falling into inceldom. If you logged onto this forum to improve your game, using a women's magazine as a gauge of your sexual prowess should never be part of your vocabulary.

[The Usual Suspect]

I’m not using for my game, I don’t need anyone’s approval...just evidence of my argument of hundreds of thousands of women voting anonymously on what they find attractive year on year. The rock probably features highest on them out of jacked guys

We all have our types - big/small breasts etc, race preference even. I’m not saying jacked doesn’t work in the slightest...just that it’s not the most popular look out there

[Ouroboros]

(02-28-2019 07:06 AM)The Usual Suspect Wrote:  

I’m not using for my game, I don’t need anyone’s approval...just evidence of my argument of hundreds of thousands of women voting anonymously on what they find attractive year on year. The rock probably features highest on them out of jacked guys

We all have our types - big/small breasts etc, race preference even. I’m not saying jacked doesn’t work in the slightest...just that it’s not the most popular look out there

Game 101: pay attention to what women do, not what they say.


If these same women were anonymously surveyed about their ideal man, no doubt they would use words like 'chivalrous', 'polite', 'cultured', 'kind', 'educated' and 'gentlemanly'. And yet men who embody these traits are far more less likely to attract women in real life than thuggish drug dealers, sportsmen or rappers.


Don't assume that women lie to themselves any less than they lie to men.

[The Usual Suspect]

So how about tinder then? The shallowest app. Not a single ripped bodybuilder here in the UK’s top ten most right swiped. In fact the only popular shirtless guy is pretty skinny

Guess those women are all lying to themselves when they swipe too?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.daily...es-UK.html

You honestly think Beckham - probably the most attractive man on the planet - would look better or get more attention if he was massive?

[Repo]

(02-28-2019 07:29 AM)The Usual Suspect Wrote:  

So how about tinder then? The shallowest app. Not a single ripped bodybuilder here in the UK’s top ten most right swiped. In fact the only popular shirtless guy is pretty skinny

Guess those women are all lying to themselves when they swipe too?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.daily...es-UK.html

You honestly think Beckham - probably the most attractive man on the planet - would look better or get more attention if he was massive?

Fine you win, go look like these guys and see how often women randomly grope you throughout the day or randomly proposition 3somes or 4somes with you.

One of those guys said hes literally only been on one Tinder date, what a fucking article.

Its disappointing that you think women's polls and cosmopolitan articles dictate how you should optimize yourself with women. We would need to get over that barrier before you could begin to understand what everyone here is saying. Might as well not learn game since most women claim that doesnt work either.

[Ouroboros]

(02-28-2019 07:29 AM)The Usual Suspect Wrote:  

So how about tinder then? The shallowest app. Not a single ripped bodybuilder here in the UK’s top ten most right swiped. In fact the only popular shirtless guy is pretty skinny

Guess those women are all lying to themselves when they swipe too?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.daily...es-UK.html

My point was that surveys of women should be taken with a grain of salt, even if they're anonymous.

As for the question of what physiques are most swiped on tinder (I didn't read the article, but I'll just assume for the sake of argument that it's correct), that isn't actually definitive proof of what women like. Women don't respond to photos the same way they respond to things in real life.

Case in point: dick picks. Many women aren't turned on by such photos at all, even though they are usually turned on by the real thing under the right circumstances.

I'm not a muscular guy so I can't speak from experience here...nonetheless it makes sense that being large has a certain real-life impact on one's presence that doesn't translate at all through photos.

(02-28-2019 07:29 AM)The Usual Suspect Wrote:  

You honestly think Beckham - probably the most attractive man on the planet - would look better or get more attention if he was massive?

Beckham is a celebrity whose fame would be enough to make him attractive regardless of his looks. He obviously doesn't need to be any larger.

Fame >>>>>>> looks

[asdfk]

^Repo dropping some bombs in the above post.

Quote:

I still feel unless if you've done a heavy cycle and have lived as both a jacked guy and a natty but in shape guy, then you dont know what your talking about because you havent lived as both. Your just guessing based off what you see.

To clarify, I do not want to speak for guys with top 0.01% physiques, like some people here.

I also don't feel comfortable speaking for guys with 1% physiques like I was myself in the past, since as I said, results vary.

If this was a topic solely about bodybuilding or lifting weights, I would shut the fuck up and go eat some ice cream. But the thread title is "Is There A Point Of Diminishing Returns On Weightlifting And Attracting Girls?"

I can speak of guys in the other 99%, sometimes in the below 10% of looks, that get bangs left and right without a great physique. For whom any form of lifting weights brings diminishing returns in the amount or quality of girls they bang.

If it makes my friends irrational to rather bang more girls then to spend time in the gym... Ok bro, whatever.

More importantly, I can confidently state that for finding a girlfriend or getting some plates being in an amazing shape is not required and in fact has a terrible return on investment.

I have a huge dataset for this (that I can't post about here) but even on this forum there are plenty of guys who do just that.

If you want to deny that guys on here got a girlfriend or some plates without being super fit or running a cycle.... Ok then.

[The Usual Suspect]

I got bloody groped on Saturday night just fine. You’ve got me on foursome though haha. And that guy only having one date? That’s his own fault for shit game because he’s obviously not lacking in online appeal

The way I live my life and optimise my body is for my benefit and how I want to be, not how a woman wants/thinks she wants me. They are merely the bonus of leading a better life - as I have stated in the motivation thread I get 10x more personally out of going Thai boxing, bjj and swimming than the gym

I like to come on here for engaging with fellow open minded guys on the self improvement path, and yes obviously there are golden nuggets around. I’m am fortunate enough where my looks alone garner attention.

I’ve not said being jacked is a bad thing - but there is a point where it will turn some women off...but those who it attracts will be more aggressive in pursuit and more sexually open - like I said cave man biology

My opinion is just that it’s not the most universally attractive look across women. Yes every female is likely willing to sleep with both Beckham and jacked guys like the rock or statham, but 8/10 would chose Beckham if they could only have one

The athletic look is the most universally popular imop, but do what suits your body and most importantly gives you confidence. The rock would look stupid and less attractive if he switched bods with Beckham and vice versa

[rudebwoy]

Most dudes are skinny, fat or out of shape. I have friends that don't lift and do well with women, granted they are more aggressive than me.

So to claim your skinny fat friend gets hot girls doesn't prove anything. I know hot girls who are dating guys I wouldn't rate.

Also, I don't see what the big mystery is as to where you live. Somehow I doubt your boss or next door neighbour is going to stumble upon this forum or thread and realize your true identity.

Again, please stop posting because you are only repeating the same noise. Quaker called you out and your ducking him.

This thread is about having a good body, it isn't about famous athletes or what People's Magazine deems the sexiest person on the planet.

I also love the way people are saying it requires hours in the gym to get a good body, if an hour a session 3 or 4 times a week is too much then I can only laugh. I know geeks who spend way more time than that playing video games or watching their favourite superhero on the big screen.

[quaker13]

(02-28-2019 10:42 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Most dudes are skinny, fat or out of shape. I have friends that don't lift and do well with women, granted they are more aggressive than me.

So to claim your skinny fat friend gets hot girls doesn't prove anything. I know hot girls who are dating guys I wouldn't rate.

Also, I don't see what the big mystery is as to where you live. Somehow I doubt your boss or next door neighbour is going to stumble upon this forum or thread and realize your true identity.

Again, please stop posting because you are only repeating the same noise. Quaker called you out and your ducking him.

This thread is about having a good body, it isn't about famous athletes or what People's Magazine deems the sexiest person on the planet.

I also love the way people are saying it requires hours in the gym to get a good body, if an hour a session 3 or 4 times a week is too much then I can only laugh. I know geeks who spend way more time than that playing video games or watching their favourite superhero on the big screen.

Any minute now they are gonna start proclaiming that dressing well doesn't get you any more women than dressing like shit

[zatara]

(02-28-2019 12:06 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

Any minute now they are gonna start proclaiming that dressing well doesn't get you any more women than dressing like shit

Why should asdfk waste precious money, and effort, on dressing well? Hes got friends who wear burlap sacks who have hot girlfriends. QED my friend, QED.

[Savonarola]

(02-28-2019 12:06 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

(02-28-2019 10:42 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Most dudes are skinny, fat or out of shape. I have friends that don't lift and do well with women, granted they are more aggressive than me.

So to claim your skinny fat friend gets hot girls doesn't prove anything. I know hot girls who are dating guys I wouldn't rate.

Also, I don't see what the big mystery is as to where you live. Somehow I doubt your boss or next door neighbour is going to stumble upon this forum or thread and realize your true identity.

Again, please stop posting because you are only repeating the same noise. Quaker called you out and your ducking him.

This thread is about having a good body, it isn't about famous athletes or what People's Magazine deems the sexiest person on the planet.

I also love the way people are saying it requires hours in the gym to get a good body, if an hour a session 3 or 4 times a week is too much then I can only laugh. I know geeks who spend way more time than that playing video games or watching their favourite superhero on the big screen.

Any minute now they are gonna start proclaiming that dressing well doesn't get you any more women than dressing like shit

This is multivariate analysis.

To a woman, male attractiveness contains about 50 different variables, all in a constant state of fluctuation. So it's impossible to make generalizations.
A man who dresses poorly may have many other variables working in his favor.

This is why we say women are complex. They are. Their sexuality is fluid and impossible to pin down with any certainty because they're overwhelmed by all the variables that their hindbrain is trying to consider. It's why they do seemingly irrational things. Those irrational actions are actually quite *rational* according to their programming, which is more complex than ours.

Ever ask a group of women about a certain man's attractiveness? They'll argue about him, change their minds, discuss, see what other women are feeling, etc.
We don't need that.
Show a picture of an attractive female to a group of men. No disagreement, no conversation. It's obvious. Five seconds. "Yeah." "Yeah." "Mos def."
To men, female attractiveness only has 2 variables: youth and beauty.
(I'd add niceness as a 3rd, but that's a recent addition for me.)
That's it. That's all we look for. So we're much simpler creatures in that sense.

[Savonarola]

(02-28-2019 08:59 AM)The Usual Suspect Wrote:  

I’ve not said being jacked is a bad thing - but there is a point where it will turn some women off...but those who it attracts will be more aggressive in pursuit and more sexually open - like I said cave man biology

My opinion is just that it’s not the most universally attractive look across women. Yes every female is likely willing to sleep with both Beckham and jacked guys like the rock or statham, but 8/10 would chose Beckham if they could only have one

The athletic look is the most universally popular imop, but do what suits your body and most importantly gives you confidence. The rock would look stupid and less attractive if he switched bods with Beckham and vice versa

I'd say that ottermode -- David Beckham -- is the most universally admired. Especially on white men. 90% of women around the world are turned on by that. My guess: It's probably because ottermode looks great in stylish clothing, and being seen out and about with a handsome, well-dressed man is MORE important than sex to women. Women live and die by social proof.

[rudebwoy]

I totally disagree about Beckham, I don't understand why he is being mentioned. Again how does he help your game?
Have you spoken to 90% of the women?

I am a man of color, white women are my staple and I look nothing like Beckham.

I am talking about the average guy that can gain a bit of muscle and gain more attention, plus also feel better about themselves.

No one is talking girly men we see on TV or playing soccer.

I am amazed trolls are coming here and trying to disagree with this, dressing well doesn't need to be mentioned. It is like brushing your teeth or washing your hair.

[The Usual Suspect]

Not a troll in the slightest. Like us guys different women prefer different bodies, Beckham is being used as a recognisable face/body we can all relate too visually.

The question of the thread is can eventually becoming too big or shredded work against your SMV

I’ve only said the following

1) yes it can if you end up with a “look” that isn’t balanced/doesn’t suit yourself or is “unnaturally” shredded
2) the most favoured body type amoung women is a celeb example I have given, backed up with real world swiping
3) ultimately what matters most is the confidence you derive from it

At no point have I said working out is a big no-no or pointless and that it doesn’t help

Providing you’re on a sliding scale between Beckham (optimal athletic/slim) to Bradley Cooper in the middle (optimal for “strong” guys) to the rock (optimal for jacked) you are definitely at an advantage

I’d say anything outside of that is working against you/diminishing your attraction - the guy in the snap shot of the YouTube video above is too massive imop, looks like a cartoon caricature

[Teedub]

(02-28-2019 02:24 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I totally disagree about Beckham, I don't understand why he is being mentioned. Again how does he help your game?
Have you spoken to 90% of the women?

No, but I've spoken to enough to know that he was considered seriously desirable, physically, for about 15 years. As is Jason Statham for that matter (he's not even particularly big, a swimmer's build with very low bodyfat). I've never actually overheard normal girls talking about how hot Dwayne Johnson is, just guys admiring him.

Most woman are attracted to the physique of the popular sports stars of their country, for very obvious reasons. It makes sense that being significantly muscular is more popular in the USA then it is in Italy, for example.

Anyway this thread is everyone just rationalising their life choices. Being skinny isn't good, but there's nothing wrong with aspiring to look more like an athletic tennis / soccer player than a bodybuilder. And yes, I acknowledge the bodybuilder look is more difficult to achieve. But if you think it's the be all and end all... head over to the Misc forum and witness the whinging from those guys who thought getting enormous would equal super hot girlfriends and/or playerdom.