[WanderingSoul]

(02-05-2014 01:32 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Money yes, bitches, no. No one would take those dudes serious in the South. My skinny cripple ass would out game them 9.8/10 times. I know cause I've done it and still do it.

Fuck, I forgot I was making fun of a cripple.

I feel like an asshole now.

[Neo]

99% of guys will never reach the point where they're too big. Gaining muscle is hard...really fucking hard. I laugh when I see people complain about how hard it is to lose weight. Compared to gaining lean mass it's nothing.

[jariel]

[Bushido]

I used to be the skinny guy who got laid anyway and argued that muscle doesn't matter.

Let's just say that I was totally wrong.

At 6'2 and 200 lbs I'm by no means "big", but the difference in attention is huge.

IMO the only guys with the right to comment are the ones who have made the full transition.

Personally, my biggest friends all get laid like crazy. And this is in Asia where muscles aren't supposed to matter.

[ComebackKid]

(02-05-2014 07:26 PM)Neo Wrote:  

99% of guys will never reach the point where they're too big. Gaining muscle is hard...really fucking hard. I laugh when I see people complain about how hard it is to lose weight. Compared to gaining lean mass it's nothing.

I'm a tall guy and I used to be a stick, it took years of lifting to break 200 lbs lean. I'm a natural ectomorph, my genetics for strength and muscle are low. Not that I was doing everything right either, but I still made gains.

At my height to be 'big' I'd probably have to be like 230-240 lbs, and I don't see getting there without gear. In terms of the post above where the guy reached 205 lbs at 6'3 and all of sudden had women throwing themselves at him, I've never experienced that. 205 at 6'3 isn't even that big. It's possible he was in a good environment(college) or was better looking(I have mediocre facial aesthetics)

In terms of getting laid, IME the more muscular you are, the more you're just running fuck up avoidance game. Since I began lifting quality and lays have gone way up, but I still have to approach, be cool, interesting, and run game. I'm not at the point where girls will come up to me and want to feel my muscles. I tend to only be complimented once I'm in bed with her. Those guys who say that muscles don't matter are full of it in my opinion. Being bigger and muscular isn't the end all be all of getting laid, but it sure makes things easier.

Edit: Like I said I don't think there's a diminishing point, but an issue I've seen is girls usually pigeonholing really jacked guys.

"He's vain, only into himself, etc."

Also a lot of bigger guys tend to walk around and don't seem like they have fun, outgoing personalities. That probably hurts them a lot more with certain girls then being really jacked.

Key in my opinion is to show contrasting parts of your personality. Look at a guy like Arnold, big, jacked, but he was always smiling, horsing around, and had charisma.

What is your bf%? There's very big difference between being say 6-7% and 14%. The guys that get the attention tend to be lean.

[cpred]

(02-05-2014 07:26 PM)Neo Wrote:  

99% of guys will never reach the point where they're too big. Gaining muscle is hard...really fucking hard. I laugh when I see people complain about how hard it is to lose weight. Compared to gaining lean mass it's nothing.

I'm a tall guy and I used to be a stick, it took years of lifting to break 200 lbs lean. I'm a natural ectomorph, my genetics for strength and muscle are low. Not that I was doing everything right either, but I still made gains.

At my height to be 'big' I'd probably have to be like 230-240 lbs, and I don't see getting there without gear. In terms of the post above where the guy reached 205 lbs at 6'3 and all of sudden had women throwing themselves at him, I've never experienced that. 205 at 6'3 isn't even that big. It's possible he was in a good environment(college) or was better looking(I have mediocre facial aesthetics)

In terms of getting laid, IME the more muscular you are, the more you're just running fuck up avoidance game. Since I began lifting quality and lays have gone way up, but I still have to approach, be cool, interesting, and run game. I'm not at the point where girls will come up to me and want to feel my muscles. I tend to only be complimented once I'm in bed with her. Those guys who say that muscles don't matter are full of it in my opinion. Being bigger and muscular isn't the end all be all of getting laid, but it sure makes things easier.

Edit: Like I said I don't think there's a diminishing point, but an issue I've seen is girls usually pigeonholing really jacked guys.

"He's vain, only into himself, etc."

Also a lot of bigger guys tend to walk around and don't seem like they have fun, outgoing personalities. That probably hurts them a lot more with certain girls then being really jacked.

Key in my opinion is to show contrasting parts of your personality. Look at a guy like Arnold, big, jacked, but he was always smiling, horsing around, and had charisma.

You make some good points there. I have been actively lifting for the past year or so and went from a 155lb and 32in waist to now i'm 186lbs and a 30in waist and i'm 6'3". It's not about getting massive but being cut, feeling good and looking fit.

[StrikeBack]

I'm sure there are all kinds of girls who say muscles are yucky, but Magic Mike didn't make hundreds of millions from women because they looooove the dialogues.

Anecdotally, I used to know a group of hotties who did everything they could to get on Spartacus the TV show as extras, just so they could fuck the muscular gladiators.

Of course the critical difference here is being lean & cut. Big muscles covered by fats don't really inspire 'em lady boners.

[MunichSux]

@ Neo : pook's point seemed to be how he made the gradual shift from very skinny to solid built (not big though by any stretch of the imagination, as you correctly observed) and how women responded all along the way, and that around 200 - 205 lbs on a 6'3'', with bf at around 10 - 12 %, most women (never all, of course) will tend to consider your body physically attractive. If the facial structures are solid, too, it'll mean "SNL turboboost", lol !

I was around 155 lbs on a 6'4'' frame, and you're right, it's very challenging for people with our bone and muscle fibre structure to put on lbm .

There are genetic freaks, though, who put on muscle mass so easily that they have to restrain themselves, otherwise they'd become to large / big. A problem I wish I had !

[Remington]

(02-08-2014 08:36 AM)MunichSux Wrote:  

@ Neo : pook's point seemed to be how he made the gradual shift from very skinny to solid built (not big though by any stretch of the imagination, as you correctly observed) and how women responded all along the way, and that around 200 - 205 lbs on a 6'3'', with bf at around 10 - 12 %, most women (never all, of course) will tend to consider your body physically attractive. If the facial structures are solid, too, it'll mean "SNL turboboost", lol !

I was around 155 lbs on a 6'4'' frame, and you're right, it's very challenging for people with our bone and muscle fibre structure to put on lbm .

There are genetic freaks, though, who put on muscle mass so easily that they have to restrain themselves, otherwise they'd become to large / big. A problem I wish I had !

I'm right there with you man. When I graduated high school, I was 6'6 and about 185lbs. That was when I was lifting like a crazy person trying to get bigger. Never able to pack on any weight. After college, I weighed around 210-215lbs. I quit lifting my senior year of college because I was lazy and preferred drinking beer over going to the gym. Once I graduated, I realized how much of a pussy I was and began lifting at least 3x a week. Started eating right and presently my weight is around 235-240lbs. That muscle I packed on was great because girls really started to take notice...something that never happened beforehand. Another thing I noticed is when I'm at the gym, people actually stop what they are doing to watch me lift because apparently I put up a lot of weight.

Keep pushing yourself beyond your limits every time you go to the gym. I'm always sore for at least 4-5 days after heavy cycles. I still need to gain about 15-20 more pounds to be at my goal weight. If any of you gentlemen have any diet tips, I would love to hear some advice to packing on this additional weight.

[elite_pimp]

(02-08-2014 09:03 AM)Remington Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 08:36 AM)MunichSux Wrote:  

@ Neo : pook's point seemed to be how he made the gradual shift from very skinny to solid built (not big though by any stretch of the imagination, as you correctly observed) and how women responded all along the way, and that around 200 - 205 lbs on a 6'3'', with bf at around 10 - 12 %, most women (never all, of course) will tend to consider your body physically attractive. If the facial structures are solid, too, it'll mean "SNL turboboost", lol !

I was around 155 lbs on a 6'4'' frame, and you're right, it's very challenging for people with our bone and muscle fibre structure to put on lbm .

There are genetic freaks, though, who put on muscle mass so easily that they have to restrain themselves, otherwise they'd become to large / big. A problem I wish I had !

I'm right there with you man. When I graduated high school, I was 6'6 and about 185lbs. That was when I was lifting like a crazy person trying to get bigger. Never able to pack on any weight. After college, I weighed around 210-215lbs. I quit lifting my senior year of college because I was lazy and preferred drinking beer over going to the gym. Once I graduated, I realized how much of a pussy I was and began lifting at least 3x a week. Started eating right and presently my weight is around 235-240lbs. That muscle I packed on was great because girls really started to take notice...something that never happened beforehand. Another thing I noticed is when I'm at the gym, people actually stop what they are doing to watch me lift because apparently I put up a lot of weight.

Keep pushing yourself beyond your limits every time you go to the gym. I'm always sore for at least 4-5 days after heavy cycles. I still need to gain about 15-20 more pounds to be at my goal weight. If any of you gentlemen have any diet tips, I would love to hear some advice to packing on this additional weight.

I've been filling big gallon ziplocks with a DIY Soylent for the past 2 months and have been getting pretty good gains: http://diy.soylent.me/recipes/demigula-m...g-3500-cal

I'll have one shake with water in the AM when I first wake up (before working out), another one after practice (breakfast), a regular lunch, one around 330PM, regular dinner then a snack before bed. So, likely it's ~1500 extra calories per day from soylent.

I'm 6'3 205 (I was 195 prior to soylent). I'm a rower, so I won't ever get huge, but I burn a huge amount of calories ever day. If I STOP working out, I typically lose 10 - 15lbs.

I used to be 6'3 155 lbs back in high school...looking back it was not attractive. My current girlfriend even said she would not have been attracted to me back then.

In college I went up to ~185...but I was still super skinny.

Post college I've been hovering from 190 - 210, depending on how heavy I'm lifting and if I'm in rowing season.

Based on the IOIs I'll get from girls walking down the street...198 - 205 has been optimal...but thats just me and my body type. Tall, lean but some extra thickness.

[Sonsowey]

I have felt that many self improvement activities can reduce your ability to pull.

For instance, playing in a band. Its great to say to a girl "I play in a band." But having regular practices several nights a week cuts into your time to pull.

Going to the gym and being fit is great, but again youre spending time onsomething outside of game. It helps when gaming but again, there goes a few evenings a week where youre busy with other things.

The biggest cockblocker of all could be employment. When I was employed I pulled OK, but I lost my job and suddenly could spend mad time on pulling, and mo surprise, my results went up even tho I was broke.

[Veloce]

(02-08-2014 04:20 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I have felt that many self improvement activities can reduce your ability to pull.

For instance, playing in a band. Its great to say to a girl "I play in a band." But having regular practices several nights a week cuts into your time to pull.

Going to the gym and being fit is great, but again youre spending time onsomething outside of game. It helps when gaming but again, there goes a few evenings a week where youre busy with other things.

The biggest cockblocker of all could be employment. When I was employed I pulled OK, but I lost my job and suddenly could spend mad time on pulling, and mo surprise, my results went up even tho I was broke.

Good point.

I haven't had any new bangs for 2014 yet, and I'm not making any efforts to. My most notches came in 2012 when I discovered Bang. But I was a stringbean (6'3" 185 lb) and I didn't bang any girls that year that I would be terribly proud of.

Roosh talks about "making deposits" in the game of life. That's where I'm at right now.

I can say, since starting lifting 15 months ago, the amount of attention when I AM out has at least doubled.

But this shit is harder than I thought it would be. Really hard. I'm currently cutting and it's probably going to take me 3-4 months to get any semblance of a 6-pack. I'm just now appreciating how shitty my genetics are. Classic skinnyfat ectomorph. Did stronglifts for a year and ate like a mofo and gained 30 lbs, but a lot of that went around my waistline.

Still, given the choice of working out 5 days a week and stacking cash, or running approaches 5 nights a week in L.A. and spending cash, I'll take the former any day. I'm not thinking of 2014 or even 2015. I'm thinking of 2016, when I'll be 35, fucking built and lean, with a sizeable amount of cash at my disposal. At that point it'll be time to start taking "withdrawals" from life.

[Sonsowey]

Yea, definitely good to be prioritizing getting your life in order, bitches are always there. But I can imagine you may want to get a bang in every now and then.

Pro tip though, use cheap dates. Take girls to the park. Take girls to an amazing view. Invite them to free concerts or art shows or any big event outside. Go to a craft fair, a wine tasting, art show, anything out of the ordinary. Check out timeout L.A. or other such sites for ideas. http://www.timeout.com/los-angeles

Fun and free and makes you stand out.

[Veloce]

(02-08-2014 04:53 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Yea, definitely good to be prioritizing getting your life in order, bitches are always there. But I can imagine you may want to get a bang in every now and then.

Pro tip though, use cheap dates. Take girls to the park. Take girls to an amazing view. Invite them to free concerts or art shows or any big event outside. Go to a craft fair, a wine tasting, art show, anything out of the ordinary. Check out timeout L.A. or other such sites for ideas. http://www.timeout.com/los-angeles

Fun and free and makes you stand out.

Don't get me wrong, I still chat girls up anywhere I go. But those nights of going out JUST to hit on girls are over, at least for the time being.

[RoverT]

Athleticism and aesthetics are usually preferred by women to size. In other words, definition over size. Most guys obsess about getting bigger, but as noted nutrition expert Alan Aragon said, "The fastest way to look like you've packed on 20 pounds of muscle is to lose 10 pounds of fat." And Aragon is the real deal, not some geared up bro-scientist like Greg Plitt.

If your goal is impressing ladies (especially younger ones), dial in your nutrition and focus on creating the broad shoulders and V-taper with a 10-12 body fat percentage and you'll be golden. Powerlifting is a bad-ass sport, but a 500+ pound deadlift isn't going to impress most women, while a lean, compact but jacked physique that looks good in fitted clothes and even better out of them will.

[rhodey]

(02-08-2014 09:41 PM)RoverT Wrote:  

Athleticism and aesthetics are usually preferred by women to size. In other words, definition over size. Most guys obsess about getting bigger, but as noted nutrition expert Alan Aragon said, "The fastest way to look like you've packed on 20 pounds of muscle is to lose 10 pounds of fat." And Aragon is the real deal, not some geared up bro-scientist like Greg Plitt.

If your goal is impressing ladies (especially younger ones), dial in your nutrition and focus on creating the broad shoulders and V-taper with a 10-12 body fat percentage and you'll be golden. Powerlifting is a bad-ass sport, but a 500+ pound deadlift isn't going to impress most women, while a lean, compact but jacked physique that looks good in fitted clothes and even better out of them will.

Or you could be that lean jack badass who can still deadlift 500#. Being strong and lean are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Just takes time....

[AnonymousBosch]

(02-05-2014 10:29 PM)dreambig Wrote:  

I used to be the skinny guy who got laid anyway and argued that muscle doesn't matter.

Let's just say that I was totally wrong.

At 6'2 and 200 lbs I'm by no means "big", but the difference in attention is huge.

IMO the only guys with the right to comment are the ones who have made the full transition.

Personally, my biggest friends all get laid like crazy. And this is in Asia where muscles aren't supposed to matter.

We can't trust what women say they like in a man, especially as there's a lot research that shows that a womea's concept of what she likes is fluid, and largely-dependant on the man she's currently with. And I'd agree men need to experience both being 'fit' and being 'big' for themselves and go with whatever gets the notches for them.

I added about 10kgs (22lbs) of muscle in the back half of last year, which took me up to 220lbs. Girls kept calling me a 'beast'. The ugly 5-and-unders, and the overinflated, bitchy 6-7 range seemed to get resentful and pre-filtered themselves out from any real world conversations with me when they're with their friends, which was all right with me, but damn, do they look as they sip their frapps, and if you have to social interact with them isolated from their circle, then they're all big eyes.

Day game improved greatly. The prettier women were very friendly and polite. An 8.5 opened me in the Health Food Store, asking for 'nutritional advice', and swung that into a training session by the lake here and a few weeks of post-workout banging. Tiny-waisted women would talk to me in the supermarket, opening me by asking if I could reach something on a high shelf for them. Girl game recognised. A lot more pokes and jokey 'plausible-deniability' flirting from girls in my circle and on Facebook too.

There were also instances of random sexual come-ons where women would simply decide they wanted me to fuck them. This'll sound like crap, but I'm sure the bigger guys will recognise the random shit that happens.

- A chick rubbing up against my cock in an elevator. Didn't bang - ugly.

- At a concert, a tidy blonde walked past, looked at me, came back, threw her arms around me and said "I'm coming home with you." Saw no reason to argue. Banged.

- A girl stopped me in the street and said they needed a male stripper for a friend's bachelorette party, and would I be interested, but she'd need a 'private show' first to see if I was any good. Banged.

- The early 20's temp at work corned me in the copy room at my previous job and started talking how she was studying 'Reiki massage' and needed someone to practice on, if I'd like to come around one night, coupled with stroking my arms and arse, with me praying one of the lesbo haired HR bitches didn't wander past. It was literally the first time she'd spoken to me in 3 weeks of her working there, and that's what she opened with. Banged, but after she stopped working for us. I don't shit where I eat.

- A note tucked into the seat on my bike with a number promising 'the best blowjob of your life', which I never rang. Suspected it was a dude.

- A mate's neighbour takes in his washing during a dust storm, rewashes it for him, then hangs it on his line a few minutes after we both return. She bends to the basket and hangs, over and over, short summer dress with no-underwear. Her husband was at work. Didn't bang, but he did. Smokin' hot, but batshit crazy. She told him during sex she'd take on both of us if I wanted and she was into being beaten and autoerotic asphyxiation.

I suspect extreme size makes thirsty girls who hunger for dominance act out irrationally.

Slimmed back down over December for health reasons. Down to about 200 now with lower body fat. Life seems less like a porno.

[WanderingSoul]

(02-08-2014 05:01 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 04:53 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Yea, definitely good to be prioritizing getting your life in order, bitches are always there. But I can imagine you may want to get a bang in every now and then.

Pro tip though, use cheap dates. Take girls to the park. Take girls to an amazing view. Invite them to free concerts or art shows or any big event outside. Go to a craft fair, a wine tasting, art show, anything out of the ordinary. Check out timeout L.A. or other such sites for ideas. http://www.timeout.com/los-angeles

Fun and free and makes you stand out.

Don't get me wrong, I still chat girls up anywhere I go. But those nights of going out JUST to hit on girls are over, at least for the time being.

I don't go out just to hit on girls either. I go out with my friends to get drunk, have fun and party. A big part of that fun also includes hitting on girls, but I don't go out solo to hit on girls unless I'm feeling that alcoholic urge (family trait lol) to knock some back and none of my friends are down to go out.

[soup]

Aside from being a real muscle man like what Mikecf is describing, I think a lot of physique is about how you carry yourself.

You need to look dominant. You have to look like you could easily dominate the girl physically, and at least hold your own against other guys, if not dominate them too.

I wonder what it would look like to see a guy who had big muscles but terrible body language and frame.

If it came down to it, I'd rather have less muscle and excellent, non/reactive body language, than to be big but have bad body language.

I still think it's good to have muscles, especially if you are gaming girls who grew up in a situation where having muscles was a signal of power.

Where I am, it can help but is not necessary. A lot of girls in NYC are going for vibe, facial looks, fashion, etc. Most girls I know would take a guy with a model/actor face and low muscle mass to an average looking guy with big muscles. They want to be with someone who looks famous.

In LA it seems like being big probably has a lot more meaning because the weather is good for showing off physique.

[Veloce]

(02-09-2014 11:24 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I don't go out just to hit on girls either. I go out with my friends to get drunk, have fun and party. A big part of that fun also includes hitting on girls, but I don't go out solo to hit on girls unless I'm feeling that alcoholic urge (family trait lol) to knock some back and none of my friends are down to go out.

I'm assuming that where you are, the bars that you like bring in attractive girls.

In L.A. it's the opposite. All the bars I like bring in fat, disheveled 6s and below. I'm not even talking dives. Hot girls just don't like cocktail bars. They're all in Hollywood drinking red bull and vodka and listening to top 40.

[rudebwoy]

Mr Bosch nailed it, now can we stop with this nonsense about what you "think" women like.
I also had some chick approach me at the gym about needing someone to massage for practice in her course. She had that same wide eyed crazy look and felt no way that my buddies were around.
Shit I need to hit the gym.

[AnonymousBosch]

(02-09-2014 11:48 AM)soup Wrote:  

Aside from being a real muscle man like what Mikecf is describing, I think a lot of physique is about how you carry yourself.

You need to look dominant. You have to look like you could easily dominate the girl physically, and at least hold your own against other guys, if not dominate them too.

I wonder what it would look like to see a guy who had big muscles but terrible body language and frame.

I think that's a large part of being big without looking goofy. What is the overall vibe you're giving off through your beahviour:

Do you look like you lift because you're insecure and want to get pussy?

Or, do you look like you lift because you give off a masculine aura of *control* and *discipline* in everything that you do?

The 2nd is what attracts non-niche women, and particularly the women who do understand cause and effect, and put the effort into looking good.

On your last point, I see guys around town all the time who have the height and the genetic frame who could slay pussy with just some exercise and learning to carry themselves like men. Instead they're all slumped shoulders, avoiding eye contact and lowered chin.

[Screwston]

Do yall think a guy with a Bruce Lee body would have girls throwing themselves at him?

[Kieran]

^ I'm fairly close to Bruce Lee but taller, and maybe a little smaller as his lats were huge. I have full six pack, am really lean (maybe not quite as lean as Bruce lee but not far off), and my muscles look kind of complete but small. I've never been laid because of it. However, I pretty much wear clothes that don't reveal anything. In clothes you can see that I am wiry because my waist and hips are very narrow, and my shoulders kind of jut out, but nobody would ever know the shape I am in underneath.

I've never been to places where I'd need to take my shirt off (pool parties etc.), so I can't really answer, although last summer when I was playing football in the park with my shirt off some jail baits started taking photographs of me, and when I get birds home and take off my shirt, I always get something like "Oh my god I wasn't expecting that" etc.

I look this way because it's how I want to look (need to stay light to stay competitive in my sport, want to be able to fit the clothes I like, and also just like how it looks), but it takes quite a bit of effort to maintain any muscle and stay this lean, so I wouldn't recommend doing it for birds as you will be disappointed. Maybe if I added a little mass and got even leaner to really get the Bruce Lee look then it would change, but I doubt it.

Edited to add: Just had a look at some photos of Bruce Lee, I'm actually bigger than him, but not quite as lean. I'd guess he is around 6% bodyfat while I'm around 7-8%.

[NeVerGymLess]

Didn't read the thread but I banged over 12 girls from online game last year( thanks to my pics ) . I had one hot 24 year old drive one hour to meet me for a drink and sleep over at my place ( she also had a b/f at home (open-relationship) So to answer your question , I started out as a chubby 200 pound kid on this site in 2008 and couldn't get one girl to fucked me in South America . Now I'm 27 years old , 6 1 , 220 pounds jacked ... I get 2 to 3 messages a day from Fetlife and another NSA website I'm on to meet up and fuck ...