[Matt Forney]

(This was originally going to be a reply on the Return of Queens thread, but it got too long and off-topic, and it's too disorganized for a blog post.)

Is anyone else getting sick of all these repentant "red pill women" running around (or, more accurately, the nutless simps who suck up to them)?

Well okay, their presence has one thing going for it at least: it's another point in favor of Roosh's prediction that the manosphere would go mainstream in 2013. When girls start swarming into a subculture/movement/whatever, that's a prime indicator that it's gone mainstream and attained real power; girls are attracted by success. But watching all these sackless clit-suckers kneeling down in front of these married chicks makes me nauseous, and I'm not the only one:

Quote:

There has been site after site after site popping up left and right from women who claimed to have gone “red pill”. From a spin off of Return of Kings, we get Return of Queens, because, you know, queens just can’t sit back and go unnoticed. There is even one RPW peddling red pill erotica. Where are they all coming from and why now? Its like a swarm of locusts. Seriously, can this many women all of a sudden just “get it”? Or perhaps, redpillsetsmefree is right and women have always “got it” and now they just feel the waters are warm enough to come out of hiding. Feminism is a dirty word, “red pill” is fresh, untainted, and already has a plethora of men attached to it, ripe for seducing.

(I note the fundamental irony of linking to a post written by a woman complaining about red pill women, but Laura Grace Robins has been around for around five years and to her credit, actually works to disprove feminism with logic and evidence instead of trying to get attention with titillation. "Tee hee, after my husband made me beg for my orgasm, he commanded me to fetch him a beer while he watched the game from his Barcalounger! I love being a red pill girl!")

I easily see the "manosphere," "red pill" or whatever getting watered down and derailed by the entry of all these chicks who think that they can just waltz in, talk about how they've "discovered" marital submission and rack up validation from the countless "alpha" men who still behave like thirsty chodes on a hot chick's Facebook page (not naming names, but you can figure out who I mean). Aside from Roosh, ROK and RVF, no one is taking a hardline stance to keep these Janey-come-latelys from poisoning the discourse in the way that girls who penetrate male spaces always do.

Not to mention that a lot of the more active "red pill ladies" have... issues. For the past week, I've been morbidly fascinated with the "RPW peddling red pill erotica" that Laura refers to in her post; it's interesting how all these "happily married," "Christian" housewives behave like garden variety attention whores. Actually, they're arguably worse, since the average chick generally doesn't openly talk about the blowjobs she gives her husband or give detailed breakdowns of how he spanks her.

I'm making a prediction of my own: 2014 will see the first "red pill divorce." Well technically, we already had one, but that chick was unknown; I suspect one of the "happily married" red pill waifu bloggers is going to follow her tingles all the way into family court.

Thoughts?

[dads]

ROQ is a bit too derivative for my liking, but I do enjoy the occasional JB post. Ultimately, as an individual you can't worry about this kind of stuff. Making fun of fat girls and betas is fun, but the real point of this stuff is self-improvement, and that will ultimately be the best advertisement for the manosphere, the red pill and everything associated with it.

[K Galt]

Seems like this is fast becoming the new topic du jour...

Check out Glorious Bastards take: http://gloriusbastard.com/?p=1456

All women are attention whores and gossips. Some are more witty, intelligent and logical than others. All have their catty, bitchy moments. Some of these ladies write awesome posts showing they "get it" and understand the logic behind much of what we all discuss. But then you can always depend on ALL OF THEM eventually doing what all women do. They just can't help themselves, and will eventually go into one or more of the typical "let's you and him fight" and "don't hit me, I'm a girl" moments.

Chics will be chics, red pill or not.

[Bacchus]

It's a form of attention whoring, as is the case for any activity where a girl participates in a overwhelmingly male area. But there are more harmful strains of attention whoring out there.

[Blaster]

"RP Women" suckups I tend to find annoying, and agree for sure. But I do occasionally find interesting content from female writers who speak truth as they see it. Judgybitch I recall enjoying. Girlwriteswhat is a bit too MRA focused, but must admit she had some really refreshing anti-feminist content. That DC blog about the girl who slept with married men (beltway banging I think?) was fascinating, though not at all pro-masculine. It was red pill in the sense that the girl was spitting sexual market truth in the faces of her female readers, but she tended to have a fairly negative view of men in general.

Worse, of course, are the "red pill" women who appear to "take up the cause" and may even genuinely believe they are trying to help, but because they're so completely unaware and unable to overcome their own internal programming they never last. They gradually begin to undermine the cause they profess to support with unconscious promotion of the female imperative. They may also engage in attention-seeking or some other self-serving behavior. Alternately, they encounter an idea too shocking to cope with and retreat back into fold.

[Daddy]

I think we need to give those kind of women a chance. We need to think strategically.

There's a critical factor that we must not forget: pussy whipped male feminists don't listen to us. They only listen to women. So if a vagina tells them that feminism is bad, they will start to believe it. Let's not forget that feminism is largely enabled by those male feminists, and without them feminism is over. If we can turn enough women on our side, that's a real great progress.

[K Galt]

I don't get a lot of the angst, though.

Sure a lot of these chics are "sirens" trying to lure men into the shoals of feminine destruction...

...but what the hell, we should all be for women who are trying to proclaim the virtues of femininity, submissiveness, reviving the arts of domesticity etc.

I mean, I've always linked to and enjoyed the blogging of plenty of women who "get it." Laura Grace Robbins, Alte, Grerp, Lena/Thag, SSM, Elspeth, JB....even the Thinking Housewife has her moments of blogging brilliance. But in every single case, read and interact with them enough, and eventually you see them do what all women do. I don't hate them for it. In fact, it makes them more endearing. lol

And you know what? It seems to me like some of the old time lady bloggers appear to be a bit jealous of all the attention these newcomer women are getting. IMO, we men of the manosphere need to stay out of the particulars - especially trying to defend or stick up for any of 'em.

There are a few lady bloggers I get along well with (email correspondence etc.) and who's blogging I enjoy. And, like any blogger that gets to a certain level of notoriety and attention, detractors, attacks and conflicts are inevitable. Despite my personal affection for some of these ladies bloggers, I have a strict policy with myself - NO WHITEKNIGHTING. EVER.

Women want to throw their hat into the arena of ideas and masculine discussion, then they should be prepared to handle the shit that goes with it, or get out if they don't have thick enough of a skin to handle.

But when it's women who've been around the manosphere attacking the newcomers and they start getting into virtual catfights... just remember why we call them "chics" in the first place.

Throw new hens into an already established flock of hens, and you'll see what happens.

Let the Hens establish their pecking order amongst themselves.

[Suits]

A real red-pill woman wouldn't blog. She'd be too busy actually bringing her man a beer.

Just kidding. A red-pill relationship has nothing to do with her bringing him a pill. A real man can get himself a beer.

No, a red-pill woman is more valuable to a man than the simple fetching of a beer, which is really a low value contribution if you think about it.

A real red-pill woman gets her attention and self-esteem from one and only one man. She doesn't need to blog.

For the motivated man, there's nothing like having a woman hitch her wagon to yours and seek to support your success, rather than independent self-validation, provided that the woman would clearly be able to achieve some of that independent self-validation from the thirsty betas out there, but chooses not to.

BTW, agree with your entire post, Matt.

[K Galt]

Of course, this topic also brings to mind an oldie but goody from one of our dearly departed blogfathers, Rob Fedders:

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2012/06/guid...phere.html

[Emancipator]

Just look at r/theredpill, with some of the most upvoted comments on threads start with either:
"As a woman, I ...."
"As a Red Pill woman, I [blah,blah,blah]"

Women make up around 10% of reddit's redpill community, and they are a very vocal minority.

[mental]

While I'm glad (and a little excited) for all the red pill women, I'm still watching them closely - they are women after all, and the hamsters may appear in the most unlikely of places.

[atahualpa]

Any time and place where men organize or get into groups, women will want to follow and participate. Women like it when there is a male space that they can let themselves into because a) very little competition and b) even red pill guys seem to become suckups in the face of a woman apparently agreeing with them.

Women are by nature status seekers and a new group is an opportunity to position themselves as the top female of the group. My observation is that in the so called "manosphere" women will come and say that they have the opinions that they think they are supposed to pretend to have in order to be in-group, but when you scratch the surface very few have any depth or actual understanding of the ramifications of their supposed opinions. They just want to be where the men are. You see the same thing at nerd conventions, chruches, etc.

Take a look over at the comments section over at the Chateau for the past several years if you want to see what this dynamic can lead to. There is a whole crew of cackling hens that never make a comment of substance, post personal anecdotes only peripherally related to the topic, riddle their comments with things intended to boost their in-group status, and devolve into a little meet-and-greet gossip circle more often then not.

When I read the comments section over there I think 'the price of eggs will be cheaper tomorrow'.

The whole Mark Minter bs drama was a direct byproduct of this phenomenon - performance art or not it illustrated both the context-independent nature of women's status whoring, and the propensity of even 'red pill' men to fall into the trap of believing that these women parroting the words and phrases somehow means that they are different.

[Ziltoid]

I'm personally utterly indifferent to their presence, be it out of genuine conviction or attention whoring (either way it makes it harder for feminists and the mainstream to dismiss red pill as 'misogynistic'), but I'm already feeling queasy thinking about the sycophantic losers that will suck up to them... The bottom of the barrel MRA/MGTOW types.
Why do some guys get so thrilled and validated when a thing with a vagina agrees with them?

[Tuthmosis]

I can't help but think "red-pill girls" are like chicks who play video games or are into cosplay. They're doing something they think men enjoy to garner attention. Since I'd rather it this way--that is, them working for male validation--than them getting skrillex cuts and talk about "stare rape," I support them. Furthermore, they have the right mindset to be attractive, both in a physical sense and in personality (non-abrasive, obnoxious, or confrontational).

Of course, that's the cynical perspective. On the other hand, they could just be women sick of pussy-ass dudes and ugly, abrasive, complaining cunts too.

I've always said: attractive girls are ten times more likely to "get it."

[soup]

If they were really "redpill" women, they'd know their place and not have blogs etc.

It's just feminism trying to co-opt our terms because they ran out of gas a long time ago.

I will say that I think "girl who knows what" or whatever that butchy short haired mra chick is called, does articulate some redpill stuff well.

[Suits]

(01-14-2014 11:44 AM)soup Wrote:  

If they were really "redpill" women, they'd know their place and not have blogs etc.

It's just feminism trying to co-opt our terms because they ran out of gas a long time ago.

I will say that I think "girl who knows what" or whatever that butchy short haired mra chick is called, does articulate some redpill stuff well.

She gets a pass on the fact that she is a lesbian, so clearly not a mere attention whore.

[Blaster]

It's weird. Lesbians seem to attract a lot of ire since it's hard to deny some of them are actively hostile to men. But my experiences with them in real life are generally quite positive. So long as you grant them some distinctly liberal politics, they can be surprisingly sympathetic to the male perspective and I often enjoy their humor more than a typical girl.

[scorpion]

The no-women-allowed policy on the RVF is one of the most important features of the forum, in my opinion.

It's sad that even in something called the "manosphere", this is pretty much the only all-male space left.

[BortimusPrime]

It's really like how packs of gorillas operate when there are no females around. They get on fine, give each other handjobs, etc. But the second a female joins the pack the dominance hierarchy is reestablished and male camaraderie means nothing. I've seen this countless times in real life social situations when females are added to the group. The alpha males start subtly amogging, the betas start putting on a song and dance routine to clumsily draw the girls' attention, and the omegas hide under the furniture or find a foosball/pool game they can intensely focus on to avoid the stress of interacting with a girl.

Even if a girl wasn't going to attention whore or start drama, this dynamic would still happen.

[Bricks]

The worst is Athol Kays forum Married Man Sex Life.

All these guys jumping though 5000 hoops to get sex from their WIVES. Toping it off is all the forum is mainly "red pill" woman giving their completely useless (non male experienced) opinions on the subject.

http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/

Check it out for yourself. I appreciate what he is trying to do, but the shrieking attention whoring helps absolutely none of these slubs get more sex from their bitch wives.

The way this forum runs it sans woman is the only way to go.

[kosko]

Red Pill women don't say much and raise their families. They get respect in their one and communities. Any broad extending herself into the public arena has an agenda to attention whore and can't be taken seriously. The only thing a women knows how to do kosher and genuinely is raise children (and that's not even 100%), anything else she does is for herself only.

[Frost]

I'm all in favour of women in the Manosphere. Lots of guys can do a pretty good impression of an alpha tough guy over the internet, and it's useful to see which ones start doing backflips on Twitter/forums/blog comments in exchange for imaginary female e-attention. The Red Pill Woman phenomenon helps the rest of us identify the weak links.

"A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

- Timothy 2:11-12

[Sombro]

I guess it was inevitable that there would be a red pill version of the Idiot Nerd Girl meme. This usually comes with any idea that starts getting widespread traction.
That said, I do like Judgy Bitch (for her sly wrath), Girl Writes What (for her hamster-killing rhetorical skills) and Dr. Helen Smith (for bringing the issues to a mainstream audience).

Quote:

There's a critical factor that we must not forget: pussy whipped male feminists don't listen to us. They only listen to women. So if a vagina tells them that feminism is bad, they will start to believe it. Let's not forget that feminism is largely enabled by those male feminists, and without them feminism is over. If we can turn enough women on our side, that's a real great progress.

This is important in recognizing allies.

[Duke Castile]

"red pill" is just another stupid word now. I perused the reddit "theredpill" and was mortified by the morons posting their simp perspectives and sour grape attitudes.

A bunch of chumps running parroting things they don't even understand, I'd blow the whole thing up if I could.

Actually you heard it hear first, they're all "R'tards".

[ghostdog]

I'm glad that here are other men who look beneath the surface of Red Pill women.

Look at this account. https://twitter.com/clairlemon
To her credit it's more innocuous compared to the others I've seen.
She criticizes feminism and posts about science. Her opinions are very unremarkable, but because she posted pics of herself she quickly accumulated 800 followers of Red Pill men mostly. They engage her and link her science stuff to which she replies with "super cool!" or "sounds interesting!"

This one comes off as cunty. https://twitter.com/Flavia_LXX
Blatant bragging. "Look at me I have a husband and child unlike those aging spinsters!"

I'm sure some of you remember "FeistyWoman" with her messy hair and aggressive facial expression. Her account is deleted now maybe because she smartened up and decided to stop flirting with right wing men while being married.

A Red Pill woman account is ironic, because it means one of two things:

- She still doesn't get how the system works, so she hasn't really taken the Red Pill. Did she forget the same dynamic exists on the internet, even more fiercely than in real life? Her online presence will recruit betas. They will comment on things she says because she has a vagina, regardless of the quality of what she has to say. If she hasn't figured this out she's just dumb and naive and nothing she has to say really matters.

- She "gets it" on some level and uses it opportunistically. As a Western woman she is used to a certain level of attention and can't come off the high. Modern married women have a more difficult time transitioning to the simple life. A part of her still needs the beta orbiters and any attention she can get from alphas. She manages a marriage and kids while writing on the internet where she knows she is lusted after as the ideal woman. It doesn't even matter if she puts out photos of herself, because men will flock anyway, and create images in their minds of what this "perfect woman" who is intelligent and submissive looks like. It's perfect.

Honestly I think some of these Red Pill women are late 20's females who realized just in time that they have no choice but to settle down. They're guaranteed to have taken rides on the carousel.

Of course there can be exceptions, and it's not hard to tell who is parroting or saying the perfect womanly things and who is actually curious and insightful. But let's be real, even JudgyBitch probably enjoys the attention a bit. They're women after all.