[gringochileno]

(01-26-2014 12:54 AM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 09:44 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

Not too long ago it was normal for me to go 2-3 dates before a girl would give it up. Now, if anything a failure to get the notch on the 1st meeting almost certainly means I won't be getting it at all.

On a related note, do you guys have any tried-and-true go-to moves for 2nd dates?

I have seen this trend too. I almost wonder if this is a new hamster shit test on OKC--"if he cant impress/dazzle me enough to get me into bed on the first date then he is not going to get it at all". New hamster slut logic?

This is a problem for me because I generally go for the second date bang.

On a second date, you need to master logistics and guarantee you end up at her place or yours. I do this by insisting that I pick her up at her place and drive her to the date venue--it can suck because I live in Los Angeles with nightmarish traffic. However, it guarantees that I will end up either back at her place or mine. Does not guarantee sex, but greatly increases the odds.

What sort of venues are you choosing? I live in Chicago so logistics are usually no issue but am at something at a loss of what kind of place to take a girl to have the best chance of pulling once you've already done first-date-bang recipe but didn't quite get the notch.

[Flavius Aetius]

Since I am in LA logistics is usually terrible--so that is my biggest obstacle.

I think that if you have already tried the bar date you have to try something new to keep the hamster's attention. Never try the same venue again. The easiest gambit is to invite her to your place for a "home cooked meal," specially prepared by you--maybe you are trying out a new recipe. You don't have to actually make the meal yourself or have any culinary skills, but it usually gets her over to your place, at night, with alcohol. Easy indicator to tell if she is DTF.

My favorite venue is the Griffith observatory---take the girl their at night (after dinner) to see some fun science stuff and a great view of Los Angeles. I literally run this venue every time because it works so well. Watch planetarium show about earth in the solar system, walk outside to wonderful view overlooking the city, wax poetically about life, our place in the universe, and seizing moments in life--get the passionate kiss/physical contact and take her back to her home/your place. High success rate.

Since you are in Chicago this does not help unless you have something similar.

Another date idea I run is a fun outdoor hike in nature with the promise of dinner later that night. Gets you both some needed exercise and both of you hot and sweaty. Since I am driving and pick her up at her house, I take her back to my place for a quick shower before we go out to eat and to meet my super cute dogs. Once she is already at my place, in my shower--things go well and we usually never end up going out to eat. Have had failures, but overall success rate is good.

[Yeti]

(01-26-2014 03:57 AM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  

Since I am in LA logistics is usually terrible--so that is my biggest obstacle.

I think that if you have already tried the bar date you have to try something new to keep the hamster's attention. Never try the same venue again. The easiest gambit is to invite her to your place for a "home cooked meal," specially prepared by you--maybe you are trying out a new recipe. You don't have to actually make the meal yourself or have any culinary skills, but it usually gets her over to your place, at night, with alcohol. Easy indicator to tell if she is DTF.

My favorite venue is the Griffith observatory---take the girl their at night (after dinner) to see some fun science stuff and a great view of Los Angeles. I literally run this venue every time because it works so well. Watch planetarium show about earth in the solar system, walk outside to wonderful view overlooking the city, wax poetically about life, our place in the universe, and seizing moments in life--get the passionate kiss/physical contact and take her back to her home/your place. High success rate.

Since you are in Chicago this does not help unless you have something similar.

Another date idea I run is a fun outdoor hike in nature with the promise of dinner later that night. Gets you both some needed exercise and both of you hot and sweaty. Since I am driving and pick her up at her house, I take her back to my place for a quick shower before we go out to eat and to meet my super cute dogs. Once she is already at my place, in my shower--things go well and we usually never end up going out to eat. Have had failures, but overall success rate is good.

All great ideas.

[Kieran]

Biggest change I notice is that, as a general rule, women no longer become easily attached. I see more men get easily smitten, while women seem to be more like men. Women getting clingy used to be a problem I had to be cautious of, but now not nearly as much as before.

Also agree with Nek on more men dropping out of the game. I know of men who go out not even thinking that meeting somebody is a possiblility. Similarly, I seem to know more and more men clinging onto shitty one sided relationships as a shelter from the harsh realities of the sexual market place. Most of these cases I would bet my right arm that their partners are fucking out on them too.

[Neo]

Here are some trends I've noticed.

Overall theme, as others have mentioned, back to the primitive.

Increase in the number of girls interested in casual sex, especially online. Before I took a hiatus from online dating, 2013 was my best online gaming year yet. If a girl meets up 90% of the time she's down.

Girl's becoming openly angry when they don't get laid or get their way. I remember flaking on some girls and they sent me nasty texts. I translated this as them being horny, and proceeded to bang quite of few of them on the next meetup.

Girl's getting more satisfaction during sex than I do. With quite a few girls in the past year I felt they viewed me as a cock first and a human being second. They had the same look in their eyes as an addict getting their fix. It was a bit unnerving.

Not caring about protection, many had no issues trying to shove my cock in them raw. They also want you to bust your load inside them, or don't care much if you do. Having self control is very important these days.

Lack of attachment or emotional intimacy.

Increased narcissism, and what I call the rise of the pseudo expert. In conversation, they talk as if they know the ins and outs of a subject, but the minute you begin asking tough questions they break down.

[gringochileno]

(01-26-2014 03:57 AM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  

Since I am in LA logistics is usually terrible--so that is my biggest obstacle.

I think that if you have already tried the bar date you have to try something new to keep the hamster's attention. Never try the same venue again. The easiest gambit is to invite her to your place for a "home cooked meal," specially prepared by you--maybe you are trying out a new recipe. You don't have to actually make the meal yourself or have any culinary skills, but it usually gets her over to your place, at night, with alcohol. Easy indicator to tell if she is DTF.

My favorite venue is the Griffith observatory---take the girl their at night (after dinner) to see some fun science stuff and a great view of Los Angeles. I literally run this venue every time because it works so well. Watch planetarium show about earth in the solar system, walk outside to wonderful view overlooking the city, wax poetically about life, our place in the universe, and seizing moments in life--get the passionate kiss/physical contact and take her back to her home/your place. High success rate.

Since you are in Chicago this does not help unless you have something similar.

Another date idea I run is a fun outdoor hike in nature with the promise of dinner later that night. Gets you both some needed exercise and both of you hot and sweaty. Since I am driving and pick her up at her house, I take her back to my place for a quick shower before we go out to eat and to meet my super cute dogs. Once she is already at my place, in my shower--things go well and we usually never end up going out to eat. Have had failures, but overall success rate is good.

Great post.

[runsonmagic]

This is an awesome thread.

To echo what others have said - I've also noticed that it's first date bang or nothing. OKC has dropped off, in favor of tinder - but I also see the same girls on Tinder, OKC, & pof, even thought I'm rarely on the later.

I've also noticed women don't debate. I'm used to relationships where if you express disagreement you discuss it, but I've noticed younger women will just leave if they don't get their way. This may be a function of me dating younger women and giving women more no's in the past year.

I'm noticing that lines that used to get a laugh or just be funny, now get me called "rude," a "douche," or "do you even have friends?" Keep in mind, these aren't cocky negs, but bad puns or playful quips that would make my sister giggle when we were little.

It may tie into the seriousness someone else mentioned - about women talking like a job interview on dates. Work people don't know how to joke, and jokes feel like an attack on their fragile status. Adrieana Richdardson syndrome (or whatever that dongle joke ladys name was).

I notice on dates I talk about cool places I've traveled, and they talk about work.

I've noticed women are more comfortable being directly propositioned for sex, or invited on first dates directly to your apartment. Again - this may just be me becoming more comfortable here and getting better results.

Girls have zero fear of unprotected sex, STDs, or pregnancy. It's unnerving.

[crunkpopeye]

Great Thread. Getting back into the game after finding the "manosphere" summer 2013 and reevaluating my dating history and surroundings has been surreal. Technology dramatically shifting interpersonal communication has definitely seen texts go from AIM-type back and forth to drawn out email style.

I feel like I woke up out of an 18 month coma because I barely recognize my own society. Bad bitches used to buss it open just to get out the house and now they're content to receive hundreds of likes of their double mirrored "on the way to work" instagram images.

This has subconsciously fucked up their bird brains beyond repair, especially when half of the images are numerous "eat pray love" style quotes to rationalize this "journey" of a life they are pursuing that rarely extends beyond some random marketing coordinator job (which feeds a loopy entitlement demeanor) to masquerading as a gluttonous "foodie" and going out for yet another friends birthday to interact with no one and have a smart phone photoshoot.

After experimenting with the game/psychological material I found, it's always my mission to pop someone's little bubble when I speak to them and it's amazing to see the transformation when they are forced to put the device down and stop referring to endless youtube videos, celeb worship, and all around fake sensational media nonsense.

I realized I run a "observational environmental riff / convert common interest into cheap adventurous new date" game but my conversions have been low due to girls being in love with being busy and me refusing to be another inbox admirer.

Yesterday I overheard two female coworkers referring to "settling down and popping out some babies" as if it a routine errand. I see from these posts that hoes have not progressed much from my college regimen of coming over, getting faded, and taking dick.

Also the reality show craze has amplified their propensity for drama and nonsensical arguments. They associate dating with screaming matches. This is by far the worst offender.

I understand a few initial, playful shit tests but lately it feels like I'm hanging out with the mafia because they are busting balls for nothing. The "compliment & cuddle" may creep back into my arsenal for the rare chick with a pleasant, delicate, feminine demeanor.

BTW I'm 26 in ATL. If u like stupid thick asses, 20 inch weave and loud mouths, come on down.

[Ingocnito]

(01-21-2014 12:46 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

very high level of self-focus in girls more recently. GPA, degrees, the next career move is on par with obsessive. I think of some of the most nerdy driven handful of kids in my high school and they way they would talk about grades and colleges and this is how many many girls talk about their GPA, career. It is sewn directly to their soul. She would try to bounce the conversion toward me rarely, but with no real direction behind it, like she did not know how to focus and have some fun banter to learn about someone new.

She rifled off like a secretary when it was her turn to talk, it was the way she talked though.

Like I wasn't there, like she was in a sound booth talking into a microphone. She had strong eye contact with me, but I could tell she was very interested and happy to talk about her own life of busy activities and almost seemed to not know that in a social setting you should share in such a way you involve and draw the other person in.

I give her credit that she did not have her phone out, and had her full attention on the conversation. The way she conversed I feel is what I am experiencing lately though. College/ Grad/ Career girls that aren't 100% party girls are so wrapped up in their career, and staying "busy" it's like they see a date with a new guy as a checklist item in the day and not something to try to get a real experience out of.

I don't like it. (ME NEITHER!!). >> I like party girls,<< not because they are easy, but because they aren't so wrapped up in their own shit they forget how to have a joint new experience with guy. Their head isn't filled with checklists.

The chick was honestly attractive, definitely WB multiple times just looking at her, but after our date ended I couldn't imagine kissing her. She had no personal charm. I haven't had this feeling before. I'd usually be happy to be in line to bang an attractive thin blonde co-ed.

If I go on a second date with her I will drink much more. And go to a venue with louder music. Doctor's orders.

I couldn't agree more (especially bolded). It's not just students, it's early career holders. Last year I had 3 dates like this, 2 in particular that resembled this scenario very closely. I'm also learning that the career / "busy body"-minded girls also represent a new breed of college grads, trying to finish off their graduate degrees and have a much lesser ability to practically apply their Master's or Doctorate based learning just based from what I hear come out of their mouths.

After 7 years of straight book learning, how much can the human brain really retain? Maaybe 7-10%?.. 20% of you're a genius, and 40%+ = savant.. ?

A master's degree is the bachelor's of 15 years ago so to speak in earning potential, but really, I've never met so many morons (I mean dumber than most bachelor's degree holders of 20 years ago), women and men alike, with Graduate degrees nowadays.

I suspect they will slowly become a virus to the much needed STEM positions that will propel the U.S.'s service based economy. Tomorrow's leaders. scary.

I think the GL Loser mentality for scanning these girls is becoming more important in person. Kino tests early on are necessary now, you might as well save yourself the hassle of sitting through their pedestal sermon and just walk the fuck out of the date if you can't derail they're 1 tracked babbl-a-thons bout themselves. I think it's a form of digitally induced social anxiety more or less.

I had a solid 8 do this to me for 2 dates - started to go like lectures or a boardroom meeting - so at the end of the 2nd date, I went caveman on her and basically shoved her face in my crotch and she gave me a blow job. That was the last time I saw her because I really couldn't stand her personality based on this behavior.

[Ingocnito]

.........
[/quote]

This is a good point. We disparage women for being rubbish... young Western men today, perhaps especially in the Anglosphere, are also a bit weak.

What I find is that there's a sharp dichotomy between pussified beta and unkind alpha.

It's important for every dude to be a good, kind guy. You can be an asshole and still be kind. That's part of what being an alpha is all about - a little cocky, but playful, and good-natured.

The problem is that I see a lot of assholes, seemingly including on this forum, who have forgotten all the good things about maintaining your childish innocence, about helping men when they're down, about being a leader on your own accord not because it brings you money or glory, but because it's the right thing to do.
[/quote]

Yeti, I think the vets on these boards are especially helpful.. and in fact, that is the core of what makes them leaders in the world.

Label it alpha or what you will, but IMO, most of us here aren't just spouting off on ways to "one-up" our fellow gentlemen.

In fact, the really true assholes are conformists, the ones who aren't searching for the answers to; "Why is everything so fucked up nowadays?" And these assholes can be converted to red-pillers.

But unlike the fem-centrics, feminists, manginas, politicians, socialists, etc.. the "leaders" of this - and other related forums - don't cram the red-pill down people's throats like the above-mentioned constructionists, they present the facts and observations and let them speak for themselves.

[Travesty]

A few days ago I got a 21yo chick back to my place, she stayed over, tons of LMR, next morning finally got her naked and she gave head. No sex quite yet, went on a 2nd short date to keep things warm, schedules didn't allow time for me to get the kill before she goes outta town for a bit.

Either way she comes off as being very scared I am just going to pump and dump her.

She texts me today out of the blue if I am open to dating without commitment.

This struck me as it aligns with much of Heartiste's latest predictions on how being an "Alpha Cad" is going to keep skyrocketing in value.

This girl told me immediately how turned on she got by how direct I was both in text and in person by getting my hands all over her quickly. She said she always has needy pussies after her or dating her. She said she has made several guys cry in person by either wanting to break up, telling them she doesn't have the same feelings, or that they are bad at sex lol. Of course to round it off she couldn't not brag about how sexual of person she is and how she has experimented inside relationships hahah. Classy.

So in final what I see is:
- She is testing me with this dating without commitment because she is so tired of orbiters and pussy boyfriends
- She wants to whore around at the same time at will

Either way - girls are becoming heartless in their sex needs. I have not run into this so blatantly before. It was comical listening to her keep telling me how I was the only guy that has ever challenged her while at the same time spilling horrifying beta bitch stories. This girl is from a wealthy family, no tattoos/piercings, barely drinks (got her pretty drunk by drink 3), classy clothing, finishing college a year early etc..

Oh yeah and WTF is with all the young chicks refusing to take birth control while sleeping around? I don't get it. I swear the chicks 25+ are way more likely to use BC. There are what? 15 different kinds. Fuck.

[nek]

(01-23-2014 10:47 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 08:22 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 12:37 AM)nek Wrote:  

Social Circle more important than ever. Why night game has declined. They want proof that your atop or near the top of some social hierarchy. If they just meet up at a bar when you're by yourself, you essentially have no social proof. It's a weird dichotomy really. Part of me thinks that this is becoming an arms race for men and part of me looks around and realizes how many guys have really dropped out of the race. So it seems to be getting harder and easier all at once.

Nek can you expound upon this? What does this entail - that men are dropping out of the game, while women are placing more demands upon men generally. What are the consequences for the game-aware player? On the whole is it easier for us, or harder? Are there certain types of women that are easier than ever to bang?

I think it is becoming exactly like what globalization is doing to the American economy right now.

Wages for the average dude is going down. The smart top dogs are breaking away at the same time.

Same with girls for these guys. The average guy's quality is going down. Top dogs are getting more than ever.

This will continue until the average dude gets the balls to stop putting up with shit from both our government and our women.

With Xbox and porn this will take decades of slow downgrading before it will come.

At a campus known to have some of the hottest college girls in America today I saw a good looking dude, well dressed, smiling with glee and holding hands with a fat tub of lard. This speaks volumes in how quality of women is going down even in "pussy paradises" and at the same time guys enjoy the shit sandwhich with a grin.

Sorry for the late reply, just saw this, but yeah Travesty hit the point pretty well. What I was getting at is that the requirement for "dominance" is getting higher, where now they want proof of your dominance (i.e. being the top dog in a social circle). And with facebook, they can verify this to some degree. This is going on in the realm of physical dominance as well, as seen with the increase in guys getting huge, chemically aided or not. The standard for being "built" has increased. They want guys who are even more willing to risk their own safety and freedom (prison). But I think there has to be a point where enough is enough and the price is being driven so high that sex simply isn't worth it to more and more guys. I don't have a crystal ball, but I'd advise that you weather the storm, keep improving on yourself, and simply by being one of the ones still left you can help your position. However, I guarantee nothing.

[nek]

(02-13-2014 09:53 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

Oh yeah and WTF is with all the young chicks refusing to take birth control while sleeping around? I don't get it. I swear the chicks 25+ are way more likely to use BC. There are what? 15 different kinds. Fuck.

It's the inner animal. Birth control, condoms, these are civilized things, they want rawness. Sex with a condom or birth control bores them, and maybe the birth control itself makes sex less enjoyable. New sexual extremes are needed.

[Yeti]

(02-15-2014 12:36 PM)nek Wrote:  

(01-23-2014 10:47 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 08:22 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

(01-22-2014 12:37 AM)nek Wrote:  

Social Circle more important than ever. Why night game has declined. They want proof that your atop or near the top of some social hierarchy. If they just meet up at a bar when you're by yourself, you essentially have no social proof. It's a weird dichotomy really. Part of me thinks that this is becoming an arms race for men and part of me looks around and realizes how many guys have really dropped out of the race. So it seems to be getting harder and easier all at once.

Nek can you expound upon this? What does this entail - that men are dropping out of the game, while women are placing more demands upon men generally. What are the consequences for the game-aware player? On the whole is it easier for us, or harder? Are there certain types of women that are easier than ever to bang?

I think it is becoming exactly like what globalization is doing to the American economy right now.

Wages for the average dude is going down. The smart top dogs are breaking away at the same time.

Same with girls for these guys. The average guy's quality is going down. Top dogs are getting more than ever.

This will continue until the average dude gets the balls to stop putting up with shit from both our government and our women.

With Xbox and porn this will take decades of slow downgrading before it will come.

At a campus known to have some of the hottest college girls in America today I saw a good looking dude, well dressed, smiling with glee and holding hands with a fat tub of lard. This speaks volumes in how quality of women is going down even in "pussy paradises" and at the same time guys enjoy the shit sandwhich with a grin.

Sorry for the late reply, just saw this, but yeah Travesty hit the point pretty well. What I was getting at is that the requirement for "dominance" is getting higher, where now they want proof of your dominance (i.e. being the top dog in a social circle). And with facebook, they can verify this to some degree. This is going on in the realm of physical dominance as well, as seen with the increase in guys getting huge, chemically aided or not. The standard for being "built" has increased. They want guys who are even more willing to risk their own safety and freedom (prison). But I think there has to be a point where enough is enough and the price is being driven so high that sex simply isn't worth it to more and more guys. I don't have a crystal ball, but I'd advise that you weather the storm, keep improving on yourself, and simply by being one of the ones still left you can help your position. However, I guarantee nothing.

Thanks. I guess the question is how to remain one of the survivors. Perhaps all that it requires is strong inner game. Even without strong external game (going out to meet new women), by simply understanding how ineffectual men are today and exhibiting ourselves as the refreshing alternative, we can swoop the women fed up with their typical counterparts.

For us, there is no spring, only the wind that smells fresh before the storm.

[Sumanguru]

You dudes who mentioned that women treat their profile like resumes are dead on.

The very first thing I see with most women's profiles now is some mention of their job/career/educational status/property ownership...you know, exactly the thing that I don't care about and that isn't a judge of your character. *sigh*

Also the plague of fatness continues. I hadn't been on OKC for a while so I did a search for my top % matches within 10 miles, and 5 out of 20 were too chubby/fat. (And mind you, I don't like skinny bitches, ass is nice, but these chicks were too chubby/fat to be respectable). So from the gate only 15 of my top 20 are even viable. *grumble*

[Jestx]

Was at a club last night and it got me thinking about this thread based on my observations. Saw too chicks, both very attractive looking, in bottle service standing up on the table not even addressing their surrounding but taking pictures and looking at their phones and laughing at some stupid shit on each other's phone.

In the past at least if the girl was going to be brought into bottle service they would at least have to interact with the dude paying for the table, even if they had no intention of fucking him later on in the night. NOW - these girls have no desire or NEED to even give anyone around them the time of day, they get validation not only in their immediate surroundings but in the virtual world 24/7/365.

If any guy/guys would have attempted to approach them or try speaking to them they would've been shocked, if not confused on how to react at all. This really is a different world.

[redbeard]

(02-16-2014 03:56 PM)Jestx Wrote:  

Was at a club last night and it got me thinking about this thread based on my observations. Saw too chicks, both very attractive looking, in bottle service standing up on the table not even addressing their surrounding but taking pictures and looking at their phones and laughing at some stupid shit on each other's phone.

I've seen girls get their own bottle service for the sole reason of getting attention. Instead of using daddy's money on bettering themselves (gym membership, better hair car, etc.), girls will get bottle service by themselves to make up for their lack of value. It's like what's always said: women are turning into men with tiny dicks. Guys don't care if girls are in bottle service. It's not attractive.