[Saga]

(01-06-2014 09:16 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

America's best (suburban) public schools are pretty decent actually.

Many have good reputations but the average class (ie not honors or AP) will fall well short of that, and students are increasingly fed standardized tests instead of genuine knowledge and intellectual challenge. Also don't forget, the number of asinine rules that are regularly enforced (overwhelmingly against boys) is staggering at times. Combined with the monotony and lack of independence (having to get driven everywhere for everything) for kids in the suburbs and it becomes an underwhelming picture in many ways.

[YardDog]

"America has no culture"

This is generally said by a Euro who is wearing blue jeans, has his iPhone out, listening to rock and roll or hip-hop, and works 'online'. The irony is just too good.

As an American the more I travel and the older I get the more I appreciate the motherland.

[loveblondes]

Culture ? Just speak 5 minutes with the average european woman (british excluded) , now do the same with your average American woman , no need to explain more.

[Scott Free]

(01-06-2014 08:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

America is a paradoxical country. We hands down have the best universities in the world. Like out of the top 20 colleges, they are all in America except for Oxford and Cambridge. Yet public schools in major cities are problematic. However suburban schools that are majority white are on par with European countries. Hate to bring it up but the education issue in America is largely a race one. Just like with crime.

To somewhat add to this: prior to migrating, we used to discuss during my high school Econ classes how the US has (at the time, at least... not so sure now) the world's largest middle class. Everyone wanted to move to the USA, because we would never be kings or emirs or sultans or nobility where we were at. Achieving wealth and status was extremely difficult, especially in third world countries where the chasm between rich and poor were dauntingly harder to cross. "But in America... any guy can have a chance to make it!" my grandfather used to say. He'd been an engineer for some 60 odd years and he was just above the Philippine poverty line.

In the US, there was no such stark gap between the rich and the poor. It was relatively easier for a freshman to start a computer business in his dormitory and become a millionaire. This kind of success seemed to transcend race, age and gender. Majority of Americans were in the middle class and could live reasonably comfortable lives. It's probably still the case, but between education problems, big government getting intrusively bigger and crime being turned into a business by the privately run penitentiaries, among other issues... in turn leads to difficulties with earning a living causing the middle class to start to shrink and allow the rich and the poor substantially grow... and grow apart.

I don't believe that it's more of a race issue though. If anything, lack of education affects any race and that contributes to limited earning ability and perhaps, the premise for turning to crime. It's a sad state. I hope to make what wealth I can here and build a portable lifestyle. As Q said to Bond, "Always have an escape route."

[Sp5]

For perspective, you have to look at international surveys comparing countries. There might be problems with the methodology or data collection, but these surveys are a rough measure.

In the OECD's educational survey of student performance in math, the USA is below mean and well below the top scoring Asian countries, but around the same as Russia, Sweden and Spain. The best comparison is with Canada, which scores 518 to the US's 481. So improvement in math education is needed. In reading, it scores slightly above-average, one point lower than the UK (498 vs 499) and higher than Ireland, a homogeneous country famous for its authors.

In the ease of doing business, the USA is ranked #4 out of 189 countries by the World Bank.

[jasond]

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/12/pisa-...erica.html

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/12/overa...erica.html

[tiggaling]

Land of The Free?

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/go...y_01032014

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2013/04/29/...ny-states/

[Scuba_Instructor]

The Next 100 Years: A Forecast for the 21st Century by George Friedman is worth a read. Basically says that America would continue to be the dominant power in the world for the forseeable future.

Has some interesting hypotheses and is pretty engaging.

[paninaro]

(01-07-2014 02:24 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

For perspective, you have to look at international surveys comparing countries. There might be problems with the methodology or data collection, but these surveys are a rough measure.

In the OECD's educational survey of student performance in math, the USA is below mean and well below the top scoring Asian countries, but around the same as Russia, Sweden and Spain. The best comparison is with Canada, which scores 518 to the US's 481. So improvement in math education is needed. In reading, it scores slightly above-average, one point lower than the UK (498 vs 499) and higher than Ireland, a homogeneous country famous for its authors.

The US I think is always destined to score poorly on those tests, because of the large number of immigrants and children of immigrants in schools. If a lot of kids in school speak English as their second language, then they're not going to do that well on tests either. A lot of the higher-scoring countries simply don't have such a large and steady flux of immigrants (except perhaps Canada, and even then it's concentrated in just 2-3 cities).

[BahamaPapa]

(01-06-2014 12:21 PM)Saga Wrote:  

Your opinion is perfectly valid but it's not objective, it's subjective to your experiences and you.

Clearly the use of the word "objective" was not appropriate for the context of what I was trying to say. Good catch. The point I was trying to make was that I'm not a native American. I don't have the same bias as someone who was born there. I consider myself as much a Bahamian as an American

(01-06-2014 12:21 PM)Saga Wrote:  

It's true we have exceptional geographic diversity...however, the "we're a baby" argument doesn't fly when you consider that every country in the Americas is more or less as young as we are and yet the US doesn't see nearly the cultural variation that you see in the rest of the new world. You can even do a fair comparison with younger parts of Europe: one street in St. Petersburg (built from scratch starting in 1703, decades after the American colonies were first settled) has as much if not more cultural/architectural value as you'll find in a dozen US cities put together. Other countries not only preserved their cities but took great pains to rebuild them after they were flattened by bombing...American cities were reduced to sorry shells surrounded by cookie-cutter developments in the 1960s and 70s just because it was good business (note that I'll be the first one to say that this country once had a vast collection of exciting, dynamic cities...but the suburban obsession put paid to that). Ironically the one boast of the American city, the skyscraper, has been lately overtaken by the gulf states and their oil money towers. In spite of all that the US does have great cultural offerings: our music and performing arts are top-notch if you know where to look and in the big cities you can find tons of activities to get involved in (to say the least)...but the aforementioned cultural shortcomings remain glaring.

Let's be specific here. What cultural variation are you referring to in the new world? As far as the architecture comment goes I'm not sure I understand that either. Are you saying that unless a country has an illustrious form of architecture then it becomes culturally deficient? Are the cities and skylines of Ecuador or Honduras that captivating and innovative? Also, wouldn't said illustriousness be subjective anyway? At the shop I worked at in little Hartford, CT there were at least 4 different languages being spoken daily by the workers. The building was made of these ugly red bricks. Does that mean there's less culture within it's walls?

(01-06-2014 12:21 PM)Saga Wrote:  

Lastly, we have a great deal of diversity but the main of the country is pretty standardized. A mall in Cali and a mall in Mass could be switched tonight and few would notice a big difference tomorrow. Contrary to what you say, that's not because of youth it's mostly because of relatively recent post-industrial developments.

This is pretty much an extension of what you said previously but I'll bite. I said America is young and it hasn't had the time other countries have had to develop a distinguished identity. How could it? It's founding population wasn't even remotely indigenous to the area. Since then it's population has been supplemented with more people from different places. European countries have been distinct from one another for centuries. The people of those countries identify with those distinctions. They take pride in those distinctions. America is pretty much a collection of individuals trying to work and live together. I feel like in time the baby will grow up, figure out a way to truly make all those puzzle pieces fit and create something that all her citizens can hang their hat on.

(01-06-2014 12:21 PM)Saga Wrote:  

The rest of your post I don't disagree with and you make good points. I think it's dope you're getting a lot out of life in the US and that you enjoy it (I do too), it's just the idea that the US "has it all" that I don't really buy.

I'm not sure where I made the statement that the US "has it all". On a side note, what other place have you lived other than the U.S that you would recommend? I'm having a hard time figuring out where I want to go next.

[speakeasy]

Why do people think America has no culture? Because it's only 400 years old? Mexico as a nation is younger than we are, yet people think Mexico has a culture. Why? Because they have sombreros, mariachi music, serve tacos and have Dia de Los Muertos? We have baseball and cowboy hats, created way more music, we have turkey and stuffing and we celebrate Halloween. Why is that not a culture?

I really don't get this claim about America not having a culture. If anything America has such a powerful culture that it has infiltrated much of the rest of the planet.

[leidenschaft]

People who say America has no culture clearly lived in the US for a good portion of their lives, and cannot see that American culture is so dominant that it is defacto in the world.



Also, America has by far the best schools in the world. Harvard/Stanford/MIT are miles ahead of Oxbridge when it comes to science, technology and engineering.

[Volk]

(01-07-2014 01:31 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Why do people think America has no culture? Because it's only 400 years old? Mexico as a nation is younger than we are, yet people think Mexico has a culture. Why? Because they have sombreros, mariachi music, serve tacos and have Dia de Los Muertos? We have baseball and cowboy hats, created way more music, we have turkey and stuffing and we celebrate Halloween. Why is that not a culture?

I really don't get this claim about America not having a culture. If anything America has such a powerful culture that it has infiltrated much of the rest of the planet.

Speakeasy man! What a mistake you have written! Neither cultures go back 400 years,especially not the mexican. They are both young cultures but they have huge differences on how they have developed and replaced themselves.

Quote:

American culture is so dominant that it is defacto in the world.

With the existence of Internet, I don't even think you can call your culture as exclusively American anymore. And to be honest, it is not as predominant as you think. Maybe in the western world and the very developed countries (give or take, only a small top % of the world)

[leidenschaft]

Of course its not exclusively American. Just like how French culture has English, German, Spanish influences. No culture is exclusive without outside influences.


Japan, one of the most isolated societies, still received profound cultural influence from China, and then the west. Finland, another extremely isolated society, has received cultural influence from both Russia and the West.

[Saga]

(01-07-2014 01:12 PM)BahamaPapa Wrote:  

Clearly the use of the word "objective" was not appropriate for the context of what I was trying to say. Good catch. The point I was trying to make was that I'm not a native American. I don't have the same bias as someone who was born there. I consider myself as much a Bahamian as an American

OK yeah that's true.

Quote:

Let's be specific here. What cultural variation are you referring to in the new world? As far as the architecture comment goes I'm not sure I understand that either. Are you saying that unless a country has an illustrious form of architecture then it becomes culturally deficient? Are the cities and skylines of Ecuador or Honduras that captivating and innovative? Also, wouldn't said illustriousness be subjective anyway? At the shop I worked at in little Hartford, CT there were at least 4 different languages being spoken daily by the workers. The building was made of these ugly red bricks. Does that mean there's less culture within it's walls?

In terms of cultural variation take Mexico for instance (not saying Mexico's awesome, it goes without saying they've got tons of serious problems but they're only a century or so older than us with a similar history so it's a fair comparison)...from what I remember lots of the states have very distinct and recognizable forms of traditional food, dance and forms of dress: Nuevo Leon, Veracruz, Jalisco, Nayarit, Guerrero, Michoacan, Yucatan, Puebla, etc. Can we say the same? Does Ohio or Connecticut have a unique folk music and dance, a distinctive cuisine, its own traditional clothing? You can still find cultural variation across regions but from what I've heard from old-timers it used to be much stronger.

Architecturally there's no doubt the US has a host of great buildings but this isn't about skyline: Paris' skyline is nothing next to Dubai's but a city is much more than that. The larger point is that with some exceptions American city streets sometimes lack attention because we've neglected them for a long time, and I think that affects how they function as social units. I remember I was showing a few Finns around a decently-sized local city and they were like "oh the river is over there let's go to a cafe and hang out"...and then I told them there weren't any cafes on the riverfront because that part of the city had been completely demolished to make way for an interstate highway in the 1960s. They were downright mystified...and I can't blame them.

I think you're right that we can also distinguish between the physical vessel and its cultural contents, and like I said the US has a lot of world-class stuff to offer in that sense, no argument from me there.

Quote:

This is pretty much an extension of what you said previously but I'll bite. I said America is young and it hasn't had the time other countries have had to develop a distinguished identity. How could it? It's founding population wasn't even remotely indigenous to the area. Since then it's population has been supplemented with more people from different places. European countries have been distinct from one another for centuries. The people of those countries identify with those distinctions. They take pride in those distinctions. America is pretty much a collection of individuals trying to work and live together. I feel like in time the baby will grow up, figure out a way to truly make all those puzzle pieces fit and create something that all her citizens can hang their hat on.

Yeah I don't disagree, but my concern would be that we're passing through (or have passed through, according to some...I'm not smart enough to know which) our most prosperous period and we could have much more to show for it. It also feels like communities are weakening, not strengthening, but that's just my feeling.

Quote:

I'm not sure where I made the statement that the US "has it all". On a side note, what other place have you lived other than the U.S that you would recommend? I'm having a hard time figuring out where I want to go next.

I lived for awhile in a few parts of Europe which was great, it's hard to say one thing about all them because they're wildly different. It depends on what you're looking for...Mediterranean Europe knows how to live the good life but their economies are teetering and it can seem like forever for anything to get done, oh and the concept of 'service with a smile' simply doesn't exist. German-speaking Europe is the opposite because everything works well, is very well organized and it's economically strong, but then again people there can be distant, closed-off to strangers and they're so obsessed with fixing everything (even if it's not broke) and making arbitrary rules (even if it's not a problem) that it gets annoying. Scandinavia was interesting (I wasn't in Denmark thankfully) because people are really polite and measured but the "always in moderation" attitude extends to everything and I ended up wishing there was more bravado. I suppose you have to take the bad with the good wherever you go, but what lifestyle you like the most comes down to taste. Other guys on this forum have lived in more places than me so definitely get their take because it's more in-depth than mine.

I will say I did miss the US for a few reasons: people are more open to strangers, usually less snobby (though in my experience women in big American cities are more stuck-up, go figure), more laid-back, you can find spicy food and most importantly it's always good to be able to converse and joke in your own language. Anyway I'm planning to get out of the US this year (Asia most likely), not because I'm unhappy but because there's so much more out there...including more feminine women and cheaper stuff

[coolstorybro]

(01-07-2014 01:31 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Why do people think America has no culture? Because it's only 400 years old? Mexico as a nation is younger than we are, yet people think Mexico has a culture. Why? Because they have sombreros, mariachi music, serve tacos and have Dia de Los Muertos? We have baseball and cowboy hats, created way more music, we have turkey and stuffing and we celebrate Halloween. Why is that not a culture?

I really don't get this claim about America not having a culture. If anything America has such a powerful culture that it has infiltrated much of the rest of the planet.

I agree, America has tons of culture, from the whole Cowboys and Indians, to music - jazz, rock, hip hop - to american cinema (though it had its gold age decades ago), american food (the pizza) and many other things which westerners take for granted.

What america doesn't have is the long anchor in history like european countries. That kind of humility that comes from walking in a city where the church and streets may be almost 1000 years old.

However, american culture is beginning to look less as the brass new thing and more crude and rash because of the foreign policy in recent years and the declining economy.

I've noticed that most asian countries now look towards Korea for their inspiration culturally where as in the past it was Japan and before that America. Economic might spreads culture.

[Feisbook Control]

This always reminds me of the couple of times I rode Greyhound around the U.S.A. Been to 30-something states. That was pre-911, so maybe it's changed dramatically since then, but it's still one of my favourite countries that I've been to.

[rimjobs4life]

(01-08-2014 07:17 AM)coolstorybro Wrote:  

What america doesn't have is the long anchor in history like european countries. That kind of humility that comes from walking in a city where the church and streets may be almost 1000 years old.

Humility as in building brothels right by those historic churches like in Amsterdam’s Red Light District? Americans respect their churches much more than Europeans do.

[buja]

"Our military has kept us safe"

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
Major General Smedley Butler - Major General of United States Marine Corps (the most decorated Marine of his time)

[loveblondes]

(01-08-2014 11:20 PM)rimjobs4life Wrote:  

(01-08-2014 07:17 AM)coolstorybro Wrote:  

What america doesn't have is the long anchor in history like european countries. That kind of humility that comes from walking in a city where the church and streets may be almost 1000 years old.

Humility as in building brothels right by those historic churches like in Amsterdam’s Red Light District? Americans respect their churches much more than Europeans do.

real humility to be able to talk to hold a normal conversation like a human being... something american women fail to understand.., in the US if you arent enough cool you get simply ignored, neither 99% of women have the intellectual capacity to follow a normal conversation that does not involve gossip or any other form of shallow stuff.

Compare the reaction of women to an average male who sits alone in a train/cafe/public place reading book or newspaper, for european girls you can be an interesting and misterious person, in america doing things alone means you are a loser because they equate it with being a social outcast.

[svenski7]

Quote:

"America has no culture"

This is generally said by a Euro who is wearing blue jeans, has his iPhone out, listening to rock and roll or hip-hop, and works 'online'. The irony is just too good.

Usually a German whose family decided to skip the boat to the New World so they could continue to get slapped around by France, England and Russia.

(01-07-2014 01:44 PM)Volk Wrote:  

Quote:

American culture is so dominant that it is defacto in the world.

With the existence of Internet, I don't even think you can call your culture as exclusively American anymore. And to be honest, it is not as predominant as you think. Maybe in the western world and the very developed countries (give or take, only a small top % of the world)

lol du trollst

[jimukr104]

(01-10-2014 06:46 PM)buja Wrote:  

"Our military has kept us safe"

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
Major General Smedley Butler - Major General of United States Marine Corps (the most decorated Marine of his time)

LOL...I often feel the same way, a hired gunslinger for the gov't. But then again I don't like the avg civilian..so fuck them!

[tiggaling]

[somebeast]

Quote:

real humility to be able to talk to hold a normal conversation like a human being... something american women fail to understand.., in the US if you arent enough cool you get simply ignored, neither 99% of women have the intellectual capacity to follow a normal conversation that does not involve gossip or any other form of shallow stuff.

Compare the reaction of women to an average male who sits alone in a train/cafe/public place reading book or newspaper, for european girls you can be an interesting and misterious person, in america doing things alone means you are a loser because they equate it with being a social outcast.

+1