[leidenschaft]

Hi Guys,


I am graduating this year with a Political science/Political Economy degree from a top 25 US university and will have about 12k student loans (federal only). The school is not HPYSM level where I can get an entry level analyst position at Goldman (UVA level), but I'll likely be able to find something. Unfortunately, I am just not very good at math and have no interest in computer science. I have repeatedly tried to use Code Academy and other similar sites to start learning some HTML coding, but I just dont have that type of mind

That being said, I do have a stellar GPA and fabulous professor references for graduate programs. My original intention was to go to a top 6 law school and grind out the biglaw for a few years, then start my own thing.


What are some possible directions I could take at this point? My parents will not shell out for the MA/JD programs at all. Biglaw in 2014 just seems too risky....


My ultimate goal is to work in either Germany, France, Switzerland, or Austria. I have zero interest in any other places like Asia/Latin America. I love the history of Europe and loved traveling around European countries. I have high school level French.


1. Should I just give up learning programming if I just cannot do it? What are other alternatives that don't require any skill with HTML/coding? it seems that even running a blog requires HTML knowledge....

2. What are steps I can take now to facilitate obtaining a work visa ? (Family from Uruguay, cannot apply for the heritage VISAs)

3. Do you guys recommend that I look for jobs in Europe now or work on my credentials first?

4. For those of you with MBAs/PHD- How well does a top 10 degree fare in Europe when it comes to applying for a position requiring a Visa?




tldr: 22years old, social sciences degree (12k debt), want to live and work in European country. What steps should I take?

[Peregrine]

You mention that your ultimate goal is to work in X country, but what do you want to do there?

[leidenschaft]

(01-03-2014 11:18 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

You mention that your ultimate goal is to work in X country, but what do you want to do there?

Oops my bad, I want to work for an organization like WB/IMF/UN

[Peregrine]

(01-03-2014 11:20 PM)leidenschaft Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 11:18 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

You mention that your ultimate goal is to work in X country, but what do you want to do there?

Oops my bad, I want to work for an organization like WB/IMF/UN

Okay. Those are large organizations with many different roles though. You'll need to be more specific. What do you want to do for the WB/IMF/UN?

[BishesMyron]

go to a top graduate school (Masters) in EU, MBA's are uncommon. Visa is not an issue, language is but for most positions they wont care just cause you come from a top school

[Hencredible Casanova]

(01-03-2014 11:05 PM)leidenschaft Wrote:  

Hi Guys,


I am graduating this year with a Political science/Political Economy degree from a top 25 US university and will have about 12k student loans (federal only). The school is not HPYSM level where I can get an entry level analyst position at Goldman (UVA level), but I'll likely be able to find something. Unfortunately, I am just not very good at math and have no interest in computer science. I have repeatedly tried to use Code Academy and other similar sites to start learning some HTML coding, but I just dont have that type of mind

That being said, I do have a stellar GPA and fabulous professor references for graduate programs. My original intention was to go to a top 6 law school and grind out the biglaw for a few years, then start my own thing.


What are some possible directions I could take at this point? My parents will not shell out for the MA/JD programs at all. Biglaw in 2014 just seems too risky....


My ultimate goal is to work in either Germany, France, Switzerland, or Austria. I have zero interest in any other places like Asia/Latin America. I love the history of Europe and loved traveling around European countries. I have high school level French.


1. Should I just give up learning programming if I just cannot do it? What are other alternatives that don't require any skill with HTML/coding? it seems that even running a blog requires HTML knowledge....

2. What are steps I can take now to facilitate obtaining a work visa ? (Family from Uruguay, cannot apply for the heritage VISAs)

3. Do you guys recommend that I look for jobs in Europe now or work on my credentials first?

4. For those of you with MBAs/PHD- How well does a top 10 degree fare in Europe when it comes to applying for a position requiring a Visa?




tldr: 22years old, social sciences degree (12k debt), want to live and work in European country. What steps should I take?

Finding work in Europe is tough, even with the residency. Were you born in Europe or do you have the ability to claim citizenship via ancestry? European companies don't pay professionals as much as the US companies, even for the same job. Your best shot is having a US company - or a multinational with an office stateside - sponsor you to work there in one of their European offices.

Here are some things you could do.

- Take the State Dept Foreign Service Exam to become an FSO. Real easy exam. As an FSO, you get to live and work abroad supporting US diplomacy in the civil service.

- Join the Peace Corps (two year stint where you can actually learn some skills and pick up an MA while you're in the program). No money in it though.

- Find a job in the US. Tap into your school's alumni connections (use Linkedin and reach out to the Career Services dept at your school, talk to your professors). Also, talk to people in your existing network or identify mentors who are already working in the places you want to work (Linkedin is good for this). Best way to get a "good" job.

- Go to graduate school. With your good GPA and French comprehension, I think you'd be a good candidate for one of the reptuable international relations schools (i.e. SAIS or GSFS in DC). SAIS has an international campus in Bologna, Italy where you can spend as long as one year out of the two in the program. Since you want to work at the WB or IMF, being in DC will open up a lot of doors for you.

- If you decide to go the working route and come up on a good job, consider business school if you like business. Having at least a few years of work experience is highly desirable at the most competitive bschools.

- You can also look into applying to graduate schools in Europe. The UK is a popular choice for American students.

Don't go to law school, especially since you don't seem to really want to practice law as a lifestyle. It's very demanding and you'll probably be time poor for a while coming out of school.

I think you're in a good place. I don't have the gloomy view about BA degrees that many others seem to have, especially if you did well and attended a reputable institution. You have plenty of options. Good luck!

[leidenschaft]

Thanks for the dose of optimism. I really appreciate it


However, I have considered your suggestions an was looking for alternatives to the typical "travel" jobs.

1. Foreign service places new people in less desirable locations. I would definitely be placed in Africa, Mid east, Asia, Latin America before western europe.... I will definitely take the exam to see how it goes.

2. Peace corps does not let you choose location. Also, it is basically 2 years in a small town/impovershed city and not too beneficial for careers.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(01-04-2014 12:23 AM)leidenschaft Wrote:  

Thanks for the dose of optimism. I really appreciate it


However, I have considered your suggestions an was looking for alternatives to the typical "travel" jobs.

1. Foreign service places new people in less desirable locations. I would definitely be placed in Africa, Mid east, Asia, Latin America before western europe.... I will definitely take the exam to see how it goes.

2. Peace corps does not let you choose location. Also, it is basically 2 years in a small town/impovershed city and not too beneficial for careers.

For the FS, you would definitely be given a "hardship post" in one of your first two rotations. But you can choose the regions, not specific country, you prefer and rank them in order of appeal. Definitely take the exam since it's a no-cost investment as a free test. You only need to register online and go to the test site on exam day (you're given like 3 hours to complete the test).

Right about the PC. You can choose region but not specific country. And they don't have a presence in all regions. For Europe, I think it's only Ukraine and Moldova, and maybe Romania. I know a guy who got assigned to an island in Fiji. You'd likely be in very spartan conditions and somewhere quite remote, but many people who did it have no regrets. Not ideal for those on a career track right away, though PC does have a good alumni network in DC where most of them wind up after they've finished.

[paninaro]

If you want to do WB/IMF/UN, I believe you need to speak at least 2 languages fluently (English counts as one) so start beefing up on your French.

One "back door" into WB and IMF is to get hired for a contract position (i.e. non-permanent), with hopes they'll hire you permanent after that. But keep in mind most projects they deal with are not in the countries you'd like to be in. For example, a friend of mine at IMF has been on Rwanda projects for the past 5 years (he's DC-based.. just flies there a few times a year).

Another area to look at to build up qualifications that may help in getting a job in Europe is to work for an NGO/contractor that's in development. Think NDI and the like; there are thousands of them in the DC area, and they do projects from USAID, WB, and IMF. Your major in college may help in this case too.

[fortysix]

I was exactly where you are about five years ago, and I eventually went on to pursue one of the two degrees that you mentioned. The market is indeed tough for JDs as well as MBAs, and it can be fairly cut throat to get the top consulting or big law positions out of these programs, especially if you are not at a top school. Unfortunately, I did not get recruited by the top firms, and I was very dissapointed, thinking that I missed my chance at riches and success. However, thanks to aggressive networking I was able to find a mentor who put took me under his wing and created a position for me at his company where I work extremely flexible (although often gruel) hours with interesting work, and most importantly, gave me the opportunity to grow our business (I need to get on this shit asap, btw).

My lesson from all of this for you is to try to find mentors -- there are some very good posts about networking on this forum which you should be able to find. Since you said you are graduating this year I am assuming that means that you have one more semester or two quarters left. Take this time to meet as many people as you can in careers that you may be interested in. Make a list of 5 areas that you potential want to work in, and then think of anyone you know through family or college that works in these fields and arrange to meet with these people. Come with questions ready. Ask them how they got started out, what their major was, why they decided to chose this career, how can you get into this career, and whether they recommend for you to pursue it, and who else they recommend you talk to. Since you are not yet 100% on what you want to do I cannot stress how important this will be -- some of these people will potentially guide you and tell you who else to talk to, and will also tell you how you can begin making money. Your school's alumni network or a simple google search will help you get started. Seek out people in positions of power that graduated from your university and write them asking to meet for a 15 minute cup of coffee or perhaps a phone call (try to meet face to face, though) PM me if you want more tips.

One more thing I want to stress -- when I was 22 I was not thinking about money, I was thinking more about what type of work was most interesting to me, and if I could get by doing that, I would be fine with that. I want you to know that in the past five years, my perception has changed -- The direction of my career is now oriented by money. Although I am still working in the field which I set out to work in, I am always trying to push myself in directions which would set me up to make more profits in the future. Thus, take a minute to consider whether you will be content working in a bureaucracy such as the WB, IMF, or the UN -- I do believe that the top positions at such organizations will allow you to pull in $100k+, but I think a lot of them require extensive work experience as well as extensive education. My two cents: I believe that an organization such as the UN would be great to end up at, but may not necessarily be the best place to begin your career.

A bit more specific:

. Should I just give up learning programming if I just cannot do it? What are other alternatives that don't require any skill with HTML/coding? it seems that even running a blog requires HTML knowledge....


Running a blog doesn't require HTML knowledge, just set up with WordPress and get a customized theme if you so wish. Honestly, if you would like to get involved in programming, I would just flip through a few introduction to web design or introduction to blogging books to get familiar with the terms and then do this:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-29744.html
Some ideas: You can make money as a businessman consolidating and having other people work for you. You got a liberal arts degree which means that you should be pretty good at writing and communicating -- now use these skills to write to clients and to outsource what they want to your team.


2. What are steps I can take now to facilitate obtaining a work visa ? (Family from Uruguay, cannot apply for the heritage VISAs)
I dont know, but I would recommend you e-mail ex patriots working in positions of companies in which you want to work. They could help you learn more about the VISA process and also about working in Europe in general.


3. Do you guys recommend that I look for jobs in Europe now or work on my credentials first?
Honestly, Europe is expensive as fuck. My advice to you would be to line up a good job, even if in a cubicle or at a bank or whatever 9-5, (although I recommend sales or trying to start your own small business by outsourcing) and just get your shit together in the meantime -- Spend your evenings e-mailing potential employers, figuring out visa shit, researching graduate school applications, etc, and while you do this stack your money. Simply getting a year or two of REAL work experience where you gotta hustle is invaluable. It will change you and prepare you to move to Europe. Also try to become independent 100% so that you can understand the importance that money has in your life (maybe you want a lot more, or maybe youre ok with not making that much )


4. For those of you with MBAs/PHD- How well does a top 10 degree fare in Europe when it comes to applying for a position requiring a Visa?

I sought out positions abroad and was told numerous times I would have gotten the position if my grades were better. My grades were bad. My school was outstanding. However, I was 100% fluent in the language of the countries where I sought out work, and for this reason I would have been very valuable. Whatever. If you finish a great school, and have outstanding grades, and speak the language of the country to which you are applying you have a good chance of finding a position abroad. I see that you speak French. Spend the year you work improving your french. You want to be as close to fluent as possible if you are serious about moving abroad -- this will be what sets you apart from the other applicants.

#######################

The most important thing for you right now is to identify people through google search, networking events, or whatever, set up coffee meetings, and speak with them. Make sure you meet with some people who are entrepreneurs and are making a lot of money -- they will bring the most perspective. Also, never feel intimidated to e-mail anybody. EVERY very successful person got to where they are through the help of somebody else. Successful people understand that by helping others they also make themselves stronger.

Finally, check out the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad. A lot of people talk a lot of shit about this book, and it may be a bit outdated, but if you have not read this or anything like it you NEED to read it to open yourself up to a wealth-oriented way of thinking.



Hope that helped.

[Alpharius]

Skip law school. The market is over-saturated.

Both the FSOT and the UN junior officer test are wicked difficult if the sample tests and reputation are anything to go by. That being said, the lifestyle gained by achieving a position like that is pretty sweet. Fifty thousand a year goes a much longer way when your living arrangement is paid for by the US gov.

Are you a US citizen? If so, getting in with the gov might be a hassle. You mentioned high school French, did you take anything recently?
ICE, DHS, and CBP are always hiring. The new pathways program for recent grads sounds like it was made with someone like you in mind. I've never met anyone who served in the peace corps who didn't enjoy it, most found employment pretty easy when they returned (one exception, who was a little weird anyway).

Mind you any gov position is going to take a few months to a year to get, in the meantime find something you can build off of in case a gov/UN position doesn't happen.

[2Wycked]

Don't do law school.

I went to a top 25 school and good job prospects are not good for me. Even people coming out of Virginia and Penn state are taking jobs that are far beneath their talents.

Further, the big-law lifestyle is fucking rough, man. Trust me. I have classmates that look to have aged years in just a few months. Women mainly but I'm not joking. Their photos from first year law school to first year employment looks like they aged a decade. I know one guy that got a great big-law job and looks to be turning to alcohol to paper over the immense demands of the job. It isn't just a few year grind, even if you get offered a partner position (not guaranteed by any stretch), you will still have a job with higher than average hours. Further, that is at least seven years down the road after 3 years of law school so we are talking you at 32.

If you do law school, only accept a top 20 or 25 school, bust your ass and network like crazy. Go to a school with a reputation for being friendly. I still don't recommend it. Medical school is still a better shot, but that also comes with you entering your 30's before you are settled.

That being said, Hencredible gives some good, honest advice.

Honestly, I think the future for young men is entrepreneurial. The traditional 9-5 grind isn't for everybody and, with the Internet, the possibilities are endless for a smart, creative young man.

You are very young and have connected to a very great resource to better your life. I meet so many guys my age -- 20's -- who are all doom-and-gloom Zerohedge types. I don't deny that reality isn't pretty, but if you learn game, get fit, and find ways to maximize your talent in ways that please you, the future will be very bright for you.

All the best.

[leidenschaft]

(01-04-2014 01:48 AM)Osiris Wrote:  

Skip law school. The market is over-saturated.

Both the FSOT and the UN junior officer test are wicked difficult if the sample tests and reputation are anything to go by. That being said, the lifestyle gained by achieving a position like that is pretty sweet. Fifty thousand a year goes a much longer way when your living arrangement is paid for by the US gov.

Are you a US citizen? If so, getting in with the gov might be a hassle. You mentioned high school French, did you take anything recently?
ICE, DHS, and CBP are always hiring. The new pathways program for recent grads sounds like it was made with someone like you in mind. I've never met anyone who served in the peace corps who didn't enjoy it, most found employment pretty easy when they returned (one exception, who was a little weird anyway).

Mind you any gov position is going to take a few months to a year to get, in the meantime find something you can build off of in case a gov/UN position doesn't happen.

Thanks for the fantastic advice guys. BTW what is ICE, DHS, CBP..? Also, I think the FSOT test is pretty easy compared to LSAT/GMAT and I didnt even know about the UN junior officer thing...

[MHaes]

^
ICE - Immigration and Customs Enforcement
DHS - Department of Homeland Security
CBP - Customs and Border Patrol

[w00t]

Hey man.
Im about to graduate with a Diplom in Sociology in Germany. Ill give you a rundown on what you could do here with such a degree (though I dont know how it is for foreigners).

There is a big joke here that with such a degree you will end up driving a taxi.

But its really not that bad. You could try to get into a government agency like the statistical bureau. You start out with 2.000 Euro a month after taxes and after a couple of years you get civil servant status so youre basically set for life. They cant fire you. You could also try to get into an NGO or work for the EU. As you probably know for social scientists there is no one professional field where they work. Its not like a teacher that ends up teaching. Sociologists work all over the place for example we have sociologists working for our federal police (BKA) and also for other government agencies and corporations. You could also work as a diplomat for the German government, you just need any kind of university degree and then you can apply for training. The pay is good and you get to live in a different country every 2 years.

But personally I dont like working for other people and the corporate world. So after I finish university this year Im gonna move to a low-cost country and purse online marketing. All of the above is Plan B if things dont work out like I want them to.

[Dr. Howard]

(01-04-2014 12:23 AM)leidenschaft Wrote:  

Thanks for the dose of optimism. I really appreciate it


However, I have considered your suggestions an was looking for alternatives to the typical "travel" jobs.

1. Foreign service places new people in less desirable locations. I would definitely be placed in Africa, Mid east, Asia, Latin America before western europe.... I will definitely take the exam to see how it goes.

2. Peace corps does not let you choose location. Also, it is basically 2 years in a small town/impovershed city and not too beneficial for careers.

These seem like advantages to me, they will build character/harden you up and give you some great travel stories that you can use in small talk and networking and even game. Unless you're currently bankrupt I think this would be the way to go