[Frank Mackey]

As Mr Myagi would say in Karate Kid: "it's everything in your mind", "you are your worst enemy", "fight your devils first and then you can fight with anyone else", etc. However, Mr. Myagi did not have a chance to fight in the UFC to prove his beautiful theory...

Don't take me wrong Steve, if you're an attractive guy with smooth game, if you're living in a favourable city, are comfortable with day game and do it smoothly, then 9s should be almost as easy as 6s or 7s.

I'm just saying that your particular case cannot be presented as a general theory applicable to all other guys in any given context.

[Tuthmosis]

8 Reasons Why Playing in the NBA is Easier than JV Basketball
By: Keyboard Jockey

1. They won't play tight D on you, leaving you wide open for shots.
2. Because you're smaller, you can fit in tiny gaps in the defense.
3. You won't get as tired because your legs are shorter.
4. You'll get pumped by the crowd because you'll automatically be a fan favorite.
5. Basketball is a mental sport, and you're way smarter than most NBA players.
6. In the NBA you're pampered--with luxury buses and decadent meals--versus JV where you don't get shit.
7. You spend a lot more time "studying the game" online than any NBA player.
8. NBA players aren't used to being approached by JV players, so you have the element of surprise.

[Shotgun Styles]

I agree with the consensus: there are some holes in this theory.

First, if you live in a place like MIA, NYC or LA (where the 10s tend to flock) you're in the deep jungle with guys who have thermo-nuclear plastic in their wallets. Don't think for a second that 10s don't get approached by guys with Gulfstream keys. I've known some super-hotties and the stories they tell of the offers wealthy men have given them would boggle the mind of event the most fantastical of romance writers. I knew a chick who was offered a GOLD PLATED HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL. Who the fuck gold plates a Benji? How do you even do that? But that's how ridiculous some of these cats have it.

I'm not saying the 9 and 10 thing can't be done. But if you think the competition is weak, I question how much experience you have in the field. Maybe you're Will Smith and the panties just melt off for you, but for us mere mortals that is very tough earth to till.

[Aliblahba]

I'll play the devils advocate.

(12-09-2013 11:59 AM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

1. The more attractive the woman, the more likely she will be approached by the kind of man who approaches attractive women. This kind of man views hunting, seducing and conquering women as sport. We have all been doing this for a long time, and it still takes balls to approach a 9. Result: Since experienced players are so rare, attractive women rarely get approached. Think "she's out of my league."

Just like the middle class, men with average game have disappeared. Experienced players equate for <5% of the male population. The rest are becoming emasculated. Women are starting to forget what a man is.

Agreed.

(12-09-2013 11:59 AM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

2. When an attractive woman does get approached, she does so by men that are too nervous and intimidated to be able to create any attraction or connection. Most have never been approached by a true player and, hence, they have been hurt less. This translates to a more open channelway to her emotions.

At the same time men are becoming emasculated, losing confidence, and further putting pussy on a pedestal, their sense of entitlement is increasing. It grows from desperation. Thus the popularity of pua shows this. Guys are approaching anything they can, which is doing damage across the board, without the basic understanding of natural attraction. A model won't fuck a 400 lb slob.

Agreed.

(12-09-2013 11:59 AM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

3. There are far more attractive women than millionaires.

Agreed.

(12-09-2013 11:59 AM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

4. A woman would rather be single than date a man cannot access her emotions. Most men simply cannot operate emotionally around stunners.

This could be why women are giving up and sleeping around.

Interesting point.


I'll work on the rest of the OP later.

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 01:37 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Unless you live in a Tier 1 city (for the US that means NYC, LA, Vegas, Miami basically) or maybe a really good college town in the South, you're just not going to even see that many 9s, and certainly not 10s.

So the idea that gaming 9s and 10s is easier than 6s, 7s and 8s is just laughable, simply from a numerical standpoint. It's like saying that getting a job at Google is easier than getting a job at Wal-Mart.

To clarify, for me a 9 is a girl who is hot enough that she can make a living based entirely off her looks, who probably does so in some capacity (i.e. modeling, being sponsored by rich guys, etc...) and who pretty much no man can resist. A 9 is a girl so hot that everyone stares at her when she walks into a room, both male and female, and even children, who can recognize her superior beauty. A 9 is a girl who is hot enough to be actively pursued for sex and relationships by the highest status men on the planet. A 10 is the upper tier of 9s who is basically perfect looking for a short window of her life. So 9s are rare, and 10s are shooting stars. Most "really hot" girls men see in real life and in media are 8s at best.

That being said, I can't take anyone who says that 9s and 10s are easier to game seriously, because it tells me that person has spent very little time actually talking to 9s and 10s (and 6-8s for comparison) and is instead basing his argument entirely on theory. 9s and 10s are simply living in another universe. They are in a separate reality from what men can understand, because we are literally unable to fathom the amount of attention they receive and the way that shapes their thinking and development.

It's not impossible for an experienced player with solid game to pull 9s, but it is basically impossible to lock them down unless your lifestyle and bankroll are commensurate with your game. They simply have too many options, good options, to be satisfied with game alone. Not when they are receiving constant attention from the highest status men they come into contact with every day.

Of course, it's possible that the OP is one of those guys who calls a 7 a 9 and an 8 an 10, in which case his theory would make more sense. Because I do believe that 7s and 8s can be easier to game than 6s if you know what you're doing. That trend just does not hold up when you moved into the rarefied air of the 9 and 10, though. Even rich and famous men cannot reliably hold on to 9s and 10s - these women are the hottest in the world, they know it, and their hypergamy makes them unable to resist the urge to constantly look for an upgrade. They exist in a state of abundance that men simply cannot understand, because there is no male analogue to it.

The closest analogy is probably that of a world famous rock singer or movie star in his prime, who has hot women literally throwing themselves at him on a daily basis, and who has his pick of 9s and 10s to date. Imagine how hard it would be for him to settle down with one woman? Well, that's basically the amount of attention that EVERY 9 receives from the top tier of men. Every time a 9 or 10 walks into a room, she knows that she could pretty much get even the highest status men there to do whatever she wants. This is why pulling 9s and 10s is extremely hard, and keeping them locked down is almost impossible.

Yes, 9s are women who everyone is pointing at and whispering about when she is walking down the street. I am talking about this kind of woman.

The deal is, the moment you sit down with this girl and have conversation, it is not that difficult to bring her down from this pedestal you and so many other men of the world have created for her.

Sometimes 9's are models, but I find that not always. If they are not models, then the princess behaviour you will see is reduced and they are even easier. These girls, specifically, do not even come into contact with the "elite" social circles you speak of. A lot of these girls are normal people, which is problematic since people, especially men, seem to equate extreme beauty to "fame". This is correlation that doesn't hold up in most cases.

You will find that the stunners that marry very rich men are commonly banging the bodyguard or the pool boy on the side. Not all attractive women are golddiggers, but even those who ARE still want sex and emotions that a logical decision to mating hypergamy cannot provide. This is why I suggested mini-relationships, and the emotional flame can only be kept up so long.

Women do not approach men, especially not 9s. They must work with what comes to them. If you look at many millionaires, you will find they are wifed up to the ugliest hags. Even in those circles, the model-looking girls have a hard time penetrating. Compare that to the ratios between these "super alphas" and the amount of 9s, especially in places like EE, and you have a bunch of single 9s. As I said, a woman would rather be single than be with a male that elicits no emotions.

It is a complex topic, and a look into the world of these girls would yield quite an interesting view for the men of the world.

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 01:47 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:  

I agree with the consensus: there are some holes in this theory.

First, if you live in a place like MIA, NYC or LA (where the 10s tend to flock) you're in the deep jungle with guys who have thermo-nuclear plastic in their wallets. Don't think for a second that 10s don't get approached by guys with Gulfstream keys. I've known some super-hotties and the stories they tell of the offers wealthy men have given them would boggle the mind of event the most fantastical of romance writers. I knew a chick who was offered a GOLD PLATED HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL. Who the fuck gold plates a Benji? How do you even do that? But that's how ridiculous some of these cats have it.

I'm not saying the 9 and 10 thing can't be done. But if you think the competition is weak, I question how much experience you have in the field. Maybe you're Will Smith and the panties just melt off for you, but for us mere mortals that is very tough earth to till.

Fortunately for the experienced player, women are not logical beings. They are driven strictly by emotions. The gold-digging tendencies of attractive women are actually proof of my assertions: The less a woman's emotional world is being rocked, the more likely her decisions will lean towards logic.

I remember dating a Hungarian girl who had been sponsored from ages 18-22 by a wealthy retired man. He would take her travelling all around the world. And yet, it was HER that bailed from the agreement. It comes down to that missing factor. Roosh speaks about this a lot, about how when you have something it no longer means anything and there is always something more meaningful to be sought out.

Schopenhauer talked about how woman's FINAL goal is all that emanates from "love". All her other "secondary" occupations were ramifications of the same thing, and I can't say that I don't agree. Looking at what women call "love", all it is a bunch of emotions that come from biological triggers. One of them is status, but it is only one, and it wears off like every other trigger.

A young emotionless 9 might tell herself she wants a millionaire, but she will have trouble finding one. And, even when she does, her primary needs are not fulfilled. Game is a way of making a woman fall into this emotional state, and when she is there her logic is off. This emotional state is the FINAL goal of women, when they have money all they really spend it on is clothes and appearance. Even the ego of females I suspect is biologically correlated to this final emotional goal.

Hence, your value is solely determined by your ability to induce this state. Beautifully, you don't really need status to do this, and the conditions an attractive woman has grown up in are favourable to the player's goal of achieving this.

[Frank Mackey]

Steve, one thing is a Mediterranean guy landing in EE and competing against some guys who don't know how to do better, other thing is for example you in the streets of Madrid trying to seduce Spanish girls... For the record, the 9s I got last year all came from EE (Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic). I'm mediterranean and I don't even kiss a girl from my nationality for 4 years; I could but would that would require me to lower my standards.

[Tuthmosis]

8 Other Upcoming Theory Threads From Steve Derekson:

1. Why a 40-Year-Old Woman Has a Tighter Pussy Than An 18-Year-Old
2. Why You Should Jerk Off 3 Times Before Every First Date
3. Why You Should Wife Up A Carousel-Riding American Woman With No Prenup
4. Why You Should Rely On Online Game for 100 Percent of Your Leads
5. Why You Should Wear a White Hanes Crewneck Undershirt Under All Your Dress Shirts
6. Why You Should Ask Deeply Personal Questions Right Away During Day Game
7. Why You Should Listen to What a Woman Says Versus What She Does
8. Why You Should Learn Game on a Computer Instead of Going Out and Doing It In Real Life

   

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 02:03 PM)Frank Mackey Wrote:  

Steve, one thing is a Mediterranean guy landing in EE and competing against some guys who don't know how to do better, other thing is for example you in the streets of Madrid trying to seduce Spanish girls... For the record, the 9s I got last year all came from EE (Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic). I'm mediterranean and I don't even kiss a girl from my nationality for 4 years; I could but would that would require me to lower my standards.

Mediterranean 9's require social circle game. It is a different kind of game because of the way that mentality and society is structured, but it does not disprove the theory as long as you know how to perform in this environment.

[Merenguero]

(12-09-2013 01:44 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

8 Reasons Why Playing in the NBA is Easier than JV Basketball
By: Keyboard Jockey

1. They won't play tight D on you, leaving you wide open for shots.
2. Because you're smaller, you can fit in tiny gaps in the defense.
3. You won't get as tired because your legs are shorter.
4. You'll get pumped by the crowd because you'll automatically be a fan favorite.
5. Basketball is a mental sport, and you're way smarter than most NBA players.
6. In the NBA you're pampered--with luxury buses and decadent meals--versus JV where you don't get shit.
7. You spend a lot more time "studying the game" online than any NBA player.
8. NBA players aren't used to being approached by JV players, so you have the element of surprise.

Will there be a C.U.N. news article written about this? I haven't seen too many of them lately.

[Frank Mackey]

(12-09-2013 02:06 PM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 02:03 PM)Frank Mackey Wrote:  

Steve, one thing is a Mediterranean guy landing in EE and competing against some guys who don't know how to do better, other thing is for example you in the streets of Madrid trying to seduce Spanish girls... For the record, the 9s I got last year all came from EE (Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic). I'm mediterranean and I don't even kiss a girl from my nationality for 4 years; I could but would that would require me to lower my standards.

Mediterranean 9's require social circle game. It is a different kind of game because of the way that mentality and society is structured, but it does not disprove the theory as long as you know how to perform in this environment.

true but social game does not result in much bangs rate...

[Aliblahba]

(12-09-2013 01:37 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Unless you live in a Tier 1 city (for the US that means NYC, LA, Vegas, Miami basically) or maybe a really good college town in the South, you're just not going to even see that many 9s, and certainly not 10s.

I started my analysis on the op not based on actual 9-10's, but on the hottest girls in a given area. If a bar is full of 6-7's, and there's one 8, guys will treat her like top shelf, cause at that moment, she is.

IME, capitol cities have always been the hardest to pull. London, Tallinn, Tokyo, ect. These cities not only attract the best and brightest females, but the males too. The bar is raised a notch. Or three.

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 02:08 PM)Frank Mackey Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 02:06 PM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 02:03 PM)Frank Mackey Wrote:  

Steve, one thing is a Mediterranean guy landing in EE and competing against some guys who don't know how to do better, other thing is for example you in the streets of Madrid trying to seduce Spanish girls... For the record, the 9s I got last year all came from EE (Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic). I'm mediterranean and I don't even kiss a girl from my nationality for 4 years; I could but would that would require me to lower my standards.

Mediterranean 9's require social circle game. It is a different kind of game because of the way that mentality and society is structured, but it does not disprove the theory as long as you know how to perform in this environment.

true but social game does not result in much bangs rate...

The ratio is good but the time invested is not. I have developed methodology for cold-approach in these countries and it has yielded adequate results. The reason Spanish girls flake is mostly the same (friend's objections), so if you can deal with that, then rate distribution is similar to other countries.

[Shotgun Styles]

(12-09-2013 02:03 PM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

Fortunately for the experienced player, women are not logical beings. They are driven strictly by emotions. The gold-digging tendencies of attractive women are actually proof of my assertions: The less a woman's emotional world is being rocked, the more likely her decisions will lean towards logic.

I remember dating a Hungarian girl who had been sponsored from ages 18-22 by a wealthy retired man. He would take her travelling all around the world. And yet, it was HER that bailed from the agreement. It comes down to that missing factor. Roosh speaks about this a lot, about how when you have something it no longer means anything and there is always something more meaningful to be sought out.

Schopenhauer talked about how woman's FINAL goal is all that emanates from "love". All her other "secondary" occupations were ramifications of the same thing, and I can't say that I don't agree. Looking at what women call "love", all it is a bunch of emotions that come from biological triggers. One of them is status, but it is only one, and it wears off like every other trigger.

A young emotionless 9 might tell herself she wants a millionaire, but she will have trouble finding one. And, even when she does, her primary needs are not fulfilled. Game is a way of making a woman fall into this emotional state, and when she is there her logic is off. This emotional state is the FINAL goal of women, when they have money all they really spend it on is clothes and appearance. Even the ego of females I suspect is biologically correlated to this final emotional goal.

Hence, your value is solely determined by your ability to induce this state. Beautifully, you don't really need status to do this, and the conditions an attractive woman has grown up in are favourable to the player's goal of achieving this.

You've put a serious...



...on your back. I'd tread lightly from here on as it seems the squad is eyeing you closely.

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 02:17 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 02:03 PM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

Fortunately for the experienced player, women are not logical beings. They are driven strictly by emotions. The gold-digging tendencies of attractive women are actually proof of my assertions: The less a woman's emotional world is being rocked, the more likely her decisions will lean towards logic.

I remember dating a Hungarian girl who had been sponsored from ages 18-22 by a wealthy retired man. He would take her travelling all around the world. And yet, it was HER that bailed from the agreement. It comes down to that missing factor. Roosh speaks about this a lot, about how when you have something it no longer means anything and there is always something more meaningful to be sought out.

Schopenhauer talked about how woman's FINAL goal is all that emanates from "love". All her other "secondary" occupations were ramifications of the same thing, and I can't say that I don't agree. Looking at what women call "love", all it is a bunch of emotions that come from biological triggers. One of them is status, but it is only one, and it wears off like every other trigger.

A young emotionless 9 might tell herself she wants a millionaire, but she will have trouble finding one. And, even when she does, her primary needs are not fulfilled. Game is a way of making a woman fall into this emotional state, and when she is there her logic is off. This emotional state is the FINAL goal of women, when they have money all they really spend it on is clothes and appearance. Even the ego of females I suspect is biologically correlated to this final emotional goal.

Hence, your value is solely determined by your ability to induce this state. Beautifully, you don't really need status to do this, and the conditions an attractive woman has grown up in are favourable to the player's goal of achieving this.

You've put a serious...



...on your back. I'd tread lightly from here on as it seems the squad is eyeing you closely.

A single day of daygame + common sense will prove my assertions to be true. You can try it out tommorow.

[Merenguero]

(12-09-2013 01:44 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

8 Reasons Why Playing in the NBA is Easier than JV Basketball
By: Keyboard Jockey

1. They won't play tight D on you, leaving you wide open for shots.
2. Because you're smaller, you can fit in tiny gaps in the defense.
3. You won't get as tired because your legs are shorter.
4. You'll get pumped by the crowd because you'll automatically be a fan favorite.
5. Basketball is a mental sport, and you're way smarter than most NBA players.
6. In the NBA you're pampered--with luxury buses and decadent meals--versus JV where you don't get shit.
7. You spend a lot more time "studying the game" online than any NBA player.
8. NBA players aren't used to being approached by JV players, so you have the element of surprise.

Will there be a C.U.N. news article written about this? I haven't seen too many of them lately.

[scorpion]

We're giving Steve a lot of shit, but I think he's got some good insights here. I think he's overselling though, which is where most of this deserved criticism is coming from. This thread should have been called, "Why pulling 9s and 10s is not as impossible as you think" and it would have been more accurate. Trying to sell a theory that 9s and 10s are easier than lesser women is just silly though. The premise is faulty from the outset. Tuth's NBA post parodies this perfectly.

The idea that there are a lot of 9s walking around "undiscovered", so to speak, is also ridiculous. I went to college with a handful of girls who are legit 9s, bordering on 10s. Some of my buddies were fortunate enough to date/fuck these girls back then (my game was not tight enough at the time, unfortunately) but they were not able to lock them down. Why? Because the girls realized they were basically slumming it, even with good looking college guys with game who had bright futures ahead of them. So what happened to these legit 9s that I knew? Here's six that come to mind and how they took advantage of their looks:

• Playboy Playmate
• Married to a star NBA player
• Model (magazine cover status)
• Television hostess
• Actress
• High-end European whore (this one is the funniest, I'm not sure what she does exactly, but she just seems to live on rich dudes' giant yachts in Europe)
  

By the time each of those girls was 20-21, they realized they could do a lot better than the coolest and best looking guys on campus. They realized their stratospheric beauty allowed them to walk in circles with the highest status, richest men in the world. And so they do. The idea that even an experienced player can "easily" pull girls of that caliber is just wishful thinking. Is it possible? Sure. But your game will have to be airtight, and once she realizes that you don't have the lifestyle she's looking for, she's gone as soon as she gets a better offer (which won't take long).

Steve, I can tell you have some insight to share, but it's best not to make exaggerated claims, especially when you're new. It sets of the bullshit detectors.

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 02:29 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

We're giving Steve a lot of shit, but I think he's got some good insights here. I think he's overselling though, which is where most of this deserved criticism is coming from. This thread should have been called, "Why pulling 9s and 10s is not as impossible as you think" and it would have been more accurate. Trying to sell a theory that 9s and 10s are easier than lesser women is just silly though. The premise is faulty from the outset. Tuth's NBA post parodies this perfectly.

The idea that there are a lot of 9s walking around "undiscovered", so to speak, is also ridiculous. I went to college with a handful of girls who are legit 9s, bordering on 10s. Some of my buddies were fortunate enough to date/fuck these girls back then (my game was not tight enough at the time, unfortunately) but they were not able to lock them down. Why? Because the girls realized they were basically slumming it, even with good looking college guys with game who had bright futures ahead of them. So what happened to these legit 9s that I knew? Here's six that come to mind and how they took advantage of their looks:

• Playboy Playmate
• Married to a star NBA player
• Model (magazine cover status)
• Television hostess
• Actress
• High-end European whore (this one is the funniest, I'm not sure what she does exactly, but she just seems to live on rich dudes' giant yachts in Europe)
  

By the time each of those girls was 20-21, they realized they could do a lot better than the coolest and best looking guys on campus. They realized their stratospheric beauty allowed them to walk in circles with the highest status, richest men in the world. And so they do. The idea that even an experienced player can "easily" pull girls of that caliber is just wishful thinking. Is it possible? Sure. But your game will have to be airtight, and once she realizes that you don't have the lifestyle she's looking for, she's gone as soon as she gets a better offer (which won't take long).

Steve, I can tell you have some insight to share, but it's best not to make exaggerated claims, especially when you're new. It sets of the bullshit detectors.

Perhaps this is cultural difference. I forgot I am talking to a bunch of American dudes. Where I am, most attractive women are disconnected from these circles. Such can be said of practically everywhere except the Anglosphere, even though my time in London did not prove this. But it would explain the discrepancies.

[Frank Mackey]

I would even suggest replacing the title for "why you should start making yourself believe that 9s and 10s are easier than the rest (eventhough that is false)". If a guy truly believes in this, this could be an interesting game booster.

[j r]

This post would make more sense if you were talking about 7s and 8s instead of 9s and 10s. Assuming a normal distribution, 9s as 10s are a few percent of of the population. The average guy probably doesn't even see many 9s and 10s in real life, much less have a chance to spit game at them.

[Steve Derekson]

(12-09-2013 02:41 PM)j r Wrote:  

This post would make more sense if you were talking about 7s and 8s instead of 9s and 10s. Assuming a normal distribution, 9s as 10s are a few percent of of the population. The average guy probably doesn't even see many 9s and 10s in real life, much less have a chance to spit game at them.

Depends on the city. American 9s are very rare, I don't remember meeting any. I would say that, walking down Madrid, when you see a 9, 60% she is from EE, 40% she is Spanish. Usually in the center I will see about 1, on average, per day, though sometimes you can go several days without seeing any, and others you might get 4 the same day. But the average is seeing 1 in about 8 hours of daygame.

I'd imagine in most non-first-tier cities in America you can go years without seeing a 9, hence the artificially-inflated value that forum members claim.

[Tuthmosis]

Why Getting Banned Is Better Than Being An Active Member
By: Tuthmosis

[j r]

(12-09-2013 02:33 PM)Steve Derekson Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 02:29 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

We're giving Steve a lot of shit, but I think he's got some good insights here. I think he's overselling though, which is where most of this deserved criticism is coming from. This thread should have been called, "Why pulling 9s and 10s is not as impossible as you think" and it would have been more accurate. Trying to sell a theory that 9s and 10s are easier than lesser women is just silly though. The premise is faulty from the outset. Tuth's NBA post parodies this perfectly.

The idea that there are a lot of 9s walking around "undiscovered", so to speak, is also ridiculous. I went to college with a handful of girls who are legit 9s, bordering on 10s. Some of my buddies were fortunate enough to date/fuck these girls back then (my game was not tight enough at the time, unfortunately) but they were not able to lock them down. Why? Because the girls realized they were basically slumming it, even with good looking college guys with game who had bright futures ahead of them. So what happened to these legit 9s that I knew? Here's six that come to mind and how they took advantage of their looks:

• Playboy Playmate
• Married to a star NBA player
• Model (magazine cover status)
• Television hostess
• Actress
• High-end European whore (this one is the funniest, I'm not sure what she does exactly, but she just seems to live on rich dudes' giant yachts in Europe)
  

By the time each of those girls was 20-21, they realized they could do a lot better than the coolest and best looking guys on campus. They realized their stratospheric beauty allowed them to walk in circles with the highest status, richest men in the world. And so they do. The idea that even an experienced player can "easily" pull girls of that caliber is just wishful thinking. Is it possible? Sure. But your game will have to be airtight, and once she realizes that you don't have the lifestyle she's looking for, she's gone as soon as she gets a better offer (which won't take long).

Steve, I can tell you have some insight to share, but it's best not to make exaggerated claims, especially when you're new. It sets of the bullshit detectors.

Perhaps this is cultural difference. I forgot I am talking to a bunch of American dudes. Where I am, most attractive women are disconnected from these circles. Such can be said of practically everywhere except the Anglosphere, even though my time in London did not prove this. But it would explain the discrepancies.

Are you talking about attractive women or are you talking about 9s and 10s? There is a meaningful difference.

Spitting tight game at an 8 will often bring more success than spitting tight game at a 6. The 8 doesn't have anything to prove. If you hit the right buttons, she will respond favorably. The 6, however, might shoot you down just for the ego boost.

[Aliblahba]

I saw a post runway model party this year, and the interaction between them (9-10's) and the wanna be girls (7-8's). The only other straight guys I saw were to middle aged suited up bizmen (overweight) buying girls drinks as they ordered at the end of the bar.

There was a big gaggle of people in the center, where most of the non models were. I think they were hovering around whoever might take a picture. The models were scattered around the outside with their gay friends in tow. I was trying to seal the deal with the girl I was with and pay attention to the room at the same time.

I got a lot of looks from the models and stink eye from the dudes, and one chick was indirectly hitting on me when I made a snarkey about her hair (tequila).

Point being, the layout was perfect for a player. Almost all gay dudes, the wanna be models pestering the big wigs (I'm assuming), which left the models as the outliers in the group.

I agree with top talent being a small %, but its still doable. If these girls were off limits, the two in the lift wouldn't have so quickly offered to stick their key card in the slot to let me go up.

[soup]

Not to de-rail the thread, but from reading some of these posts, I think some of you guys don't really get what a 9 is.

A 9 is like what Scorpion is describing.

Again, there is no such thing as a 10. It's like the speed of light- girls can approach it (actually I think most attractive girls can only get up to around 9.5), but they will never ever be able to be 10s.

A 10 is the most perfect woman to exist- now, in the past, and forever into the future. She doesn't age, or get fat, and is the most attractive woman to all men that have ever existed, consensus 100%.

Even the Greek goddesses don't reach 10 as Aphrodite and Hera were rivals.

10 is by definition un-attainable.

I'd say that women of fantasy, such as those gods, and probably some women you encounter in your dreams represent the 9.5 towards 10 range. This could include some of the finest women on the planet.

The concept exists as a tool for guys to remember not to put girls on pedestals, and that there will always be a potentially hotter girl then the one you are dealing with.