[pitt]

http://gizmodo.com/sweden-is-closing-pri...1462950734

I am starting to believe all that Sweden hype and that Swedish women love foreigners and can't stand local guys. The country has no bad guys, Sweden must be a pussy heaven. If i was into white chicks, I would be booking my ticket right now.

[Luvianka]

(11-18-2013 08:47 PM)pitt Wrote:  

http://gizmodo.com/sweden-is-closing-pri...1462950734

I am starting to believe all that Sweden hype and that Swedish women love foreigners and can't stand local guys. The country has no bad guys, Sweden must be a pussy heaven. If i was into white chicks, I would be booking my ticket right now.

And those news about the Muslim inmigrants who are raping Swedish women? Swedish Government is not prosecuting them?

[svenski7]

Don't believe everything you hear. I personally can't stand the arrogance of the Swedes I have met.

Remember Julian Assange? Isn't he sitting in an embassy in London because a feminist in Sweden accused him of having sex (consensual) with her without a condom?

Also, take a look at what is happening over in Oslo, Norway.

"Two out of three charged with rape in Norway’s capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study."

"The number of rapes in the Norwegian capital Oslo is six times as high as in New York City."

Well, that should fill the jails up!

Source

Great ROK article on this: Will the Norwegian People Disappear?

[j r]

Anyone have a reputable source for Scandinavian rape claims? The link above goes to a blog that links to other blogs. Where is the actual source of these stats?

[Excelsior]

(11-18-2013 08:47 PM)pitt Wrote:  

http://gizmodo.com/sweden-is-closing-pri...1462950734

I am starting to believe all that Sweden hype and that Swedish women love foreigners and can't stand local guys. The country has no bad guys, Sweden must be a pussy heaven. If i was into white chicks, I would be booking my ticket right now.

Less competition for me!

[svenski7]

(11-18-2013 09:07 PM)j r Wrote:  

Anyone have a reputable source for Scandinavian rape claims? The link above goes to a blog that links to other blogs. Where is the actual source of these stats?

Oslo Police Rape Report

Page 54.

[DeWitt]

All these Sweden threads, I don't get why Americans are so obsessed about us when they know so little about us. We are like Japan to you, but with feminism/leftism instead of lol-so-crazy things.

As for rape statistics, I would assume that the gentlemen who frequent this board are aware of that feminists considers everything rape, but I guess it is more important to wholly blame the muslims instead? Yes I am aware of that these people do more than their fair share of that stuff. But the biggest culprit in the rise of rape is that they have changed the law to include things that wouldn't be considered rape anywhere else, rather sexual harassment or something along those lines. The idea that Sweden is the country with most rapes per capita is insane.

[Collide]

(11-18-2013 09:22 PM)DeWitt Wrote:  

But the biggest culprit in the rise of rape is that they have changed the law to include things that wouldn't be considered rape anywhere else, rather sexual harassment or something along those lines. The idea that Sweden is the country with most rapes per capita is insane.

I also believe in Sweden they add up multiple offenses. A woman in a shaky marriage can claim to have been raped 80 times, and they will count those 80 as if they were all different people.

Sweden has the highest rape count in the world. The only way for that to be true is if they fiddled with the statistics.

[j r]

(11-18-2013 09:16 PM)svenski7 Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 09:07 PM)j r Wrote:  

Anyone have a reputable source for Scandinavian rape claims? The link above goes to a blog that links to other blogs. Where is the actual source of these stats?

Oslo Police Rape Report

Page 54.

I don't read Norwegian real well (or at all without Google Translate), but these numbers don't support the talking point about some kind of Muslim rape epidemic in Scandinavian countries. It says that there were 152 unique suspects in 2010. Doesn't sound like six times New York. Also of those 152 cases, almost all of them fall under the categories of related party, relationship, and vulnerability. Only 4 were assault.

Seems like the white nationalists like to twist rape statistics just as much as the feminists.

[speakeasy]

Quote:

The issue isn't lack of crime in Sweden—in fact, the crime rate has actually increased slightly there—but rather a strong emphasis on rehabilitating criminals, rather than locking them up. The prison population declined 6 percent between 2011 and 2012. In the United States, by comparison, federal facilities are 40 percent over capacity.

The New York Times highlighted this contrast in an editorial last week describing what the U.S. can learn from European prisons, where the vast majority of stays are less than 12 months. In U.S. state prisons, for example, the average is three years. It's not just that prison stays are shorter in Europe, however; prisons treat prisoners differently, giving them more privacy and freedom, and generally gearing their time behind bars toward reentering society. And, at the end of the day, that produces better results than locking people up and throwing away the key.

With regards to the topic of hand, what do you guys think of the Swedish model of rehabilitating criminals vis-a-vis the American model of prison as punishment? Do you think Sweden's way could ever work in the states?

[elabayarde]

(11-18-2013 09:10 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 08:47 PM)pitt Wrote:  

http://gizmodo.com/sweden-is-closing-pri...1462950734

I am starting to believe all that Sweden hype and that Swedish women love foreigners and can't stand local guys. The country has no bad guys, Sweden must be a pussy heaven. If i was into white chicks, I would be booking my ticket right now.

Less competition for me!

Maybe we can send some of our convicts there to help them out.

[Samseau]

Guys did you read the article?

Quote:

The issue isn't lack of crime in Sweden—in fact, the crime rate has actually increased slightly there—but rather a strong emphasis on rehabilitating criminals, rather than locking them up. The prison population declined 6 percent between 2011 and 2012. In the United States, by comparison, federal facilities are 40 percent over capacity.

This is the real story. Sweden is choosing rehabilitation over incarceration. This sounds like a recipe for ruthless criminals to exploit the hell out of law-abiding Swedes, Clockwork Orange style.

Sweeden's government is almost guarneteeing that the Sweeden of 2050 is going to be a dump.

[Cattle Rustler]

(11-18-2013 10:43 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote:

The issue isn't lack of crime in Sweden—in fact, the crime rate has actually increased slightly there—but rather a strong emphasis on rehabilitating criminals, rather than locking them up. The prison population declined 6 percent between 2011 and 2012. In the United States, by comparison, federal facilities are 40 percent over capacity.

The New York Times highlighted this contrast in an editorial last week describing what the U.S. can learn from European prisons, where the vast majority of stays are less than 12 months. In U.S. state prisons, for example, the average is three years. It's not just that prison stays are shorter in Europe, however; prisons treat prisoners differently, giving them more privacy and freedom, and generally gearing their time behind bars toward reentering society. And, at the end of the day, that produces better results than locking people up and throwing away the key.

With regards to the topic of hand, what do you guys think of the Swedish model of rehabilitating criminals vis-a-vis the American model of prison as punishment? Do you think Sweden's way could ever work in the states?

It's been proven in most cases to work, hence why most juvenile programs focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment.

(11-18-2013 11:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Guys did you read the article?

Quote:

The issue isn't lack of crime in Sweden—in fact, the crime rate has actually increased slightly there—but rather a strong emphasis on rehabilitating criminals, rather than locking them up. The prison population declined 6 percent between 2011 and 2012. In the United States, by comparison, federal facilities are 40 percent over capacity.

This is the real story. Sweden is choosing rehabilitation over incarceration. This sounds like a recipe for ruthless criminals to exploit the hell out of law-abiding Swedes, Clockwork Orange style.

Sweeden's government is almost guarneteeing that the Sweeden of 2050 is going to be a dump.

Look at Swedish re-incident rates compared to American ones......throwing people in the slammer and throwing the keys away does wonders.

[Aliblahba]

Vicious and Global Baller in 3...2...1...

[Samseau]

(11-18-2013 11:17 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 10:43 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote:

The issue isn't lack of crime in Sweden—in fact, the crime rate has actually increased slightly there—but rather a strong emphasis on rehabilitating criminals, rather than locking them up. The prison population declined 6 percent between 2011 and 2012. In the United States, by comparison, federal facilities are 40 percent over capacity.

The New York Times highlighted this contrast in an editorial last week describing what the U.S. can learn from European prisons, where the vast majority of stays are less than 12 months. In U.S. state prisons, for example, the average is three years. It's not just that prison stays are shorter in Europe, however; prisons treat prisoners differently, giving them more privacy and freedom, and generally gearing their time behind bars toward reentering society. And, at the end of the day, that produces better results than locking people up and throwing away the key.

With regards to the topic of hand, what do you guys think of the Swedish model of rehabilitating criminals vis-a-vis the American model of prison as punishment? Do you think Sweden's way could ever work in the states?

It's been proven in most cases to work, hence why most juvenile programs focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment.

Most cases? Then you cite Juvenile stats? What? Of course young kids still have time to change. But that 18 year old who just robbed a store and raped someone, he needs hard time.

[j r]

Hard time is great. 'til the guy gets out. Then it's hard times for everyone he comes in contact with.

Don't get me wrong. Some people need to be locked away for a long long time. However, the expansion of the American prison system, to the point that we have about 2.5 million people in prison (that's not even counting local jails), is completely counterproductive to the goal of a safer society, a huge fiscal drain, and completely immoral. All it does is facilitate the expansion of the perpetual underclass and brin us closer to the day where our society is completely split into an elite upper class and a prole underclass.

I'm not a big fan of the Scandinavian welfare
state or their very progressive versions of feminism and multiculturalism, but they are miles ahead of us in the area of criminal justice.

[MHaes]

@Sam

Bro do you honestly think our prison system is better than the Swedes?

I understand the point you are making about how in a Swede only society that rehabilitation would work just fine, and I agree with you on that point, but if you are suggesting straight incarceration American style - well that certainly hasn't worked over here.

[Hades]

I'm upset to hear that the Norwegian people might disappear, as that is my ancestral 'homeland'. As long as Minnesota and Iowa are still around though, there should still be a sizeable population of them.

The Swedes have a great criminal justice system, in my opinion. The recidivism rate (even for adults) is not that bad. We take a bigger "gamble" in the US because prisons are convict factories.

In the US, a man who gets imprisoned for any reason whatsoever is not just taken "out of society" - he gets thrown into an dark criminal underclass society where he can expect to be beaten and possibly raped, or even contract HIV, and expect no protection or sympathy whatsoever unless he chooses to join a gang or suck some meathead's dick. Nobody really gives a shit about prisoners whatsoever, at least not enough to ensure that they're not going to get pummelled and raped to death in the showers or shanked with a chicken bone by some Mexican dude who's looking to impress a cartel drug lord on the outside with a show of loyalty. Bernie Madoff assholes, multiple offending drunk drivers, car thieves, nonviolent offenders, that friendly guy with dreadlocks who was caught with a kilo of weed on the streetcorner, domestic abusers, and particularly the falsely imprisoned all get subject to the same shit regardless of why they're in there.

[iknowexactly]

dupe

[iknowexactly]

(11-19-2013 02:57 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I worked in and published research on prisons in the USA.

The overriding point I saw again and again is that we intervene far, far too late at the most expensive possible point.

Kids who have been arrested 8-10 times from 13-16-- for pretty serious stuff like strong arm-robbery and burglary-- are let go again and again, until they do their first murder at 21 or so, then 40 years in prison at 40k per year.

This is from personal examination of hundreds of real criminal records directly by me, not hearsay of any kind.

To intervene at a more optimal point would require Orwellian totalitarian shit that the USA will never tolerate, such as redirecting kids who are bullies at 7-9 years old into very tough, expensive training programs which basically rebuild them into some kind of lobotomized drone with all the energy drained from them so they can't make trouble.

Even earlier would be better, and more totally impossible politically. Licenses for having kids, etc.

By the time you've got a 70 IQ ( most criminals are very, very dumb) 16 year old running around with a gun thinking he's the hero of a rap song, it's all far, far too late.

That said, in the Californian cities (Sacramento) where I've lived, throwing all the dimwits in prison has made a huge impact. There are no thuggish bullies in the downtowns. They're all locked up. It's expensive, but you can walk around downtown Sac in the middle of the night and not one moron will bother you unless it's a drunk frat boy who will not rob you.

Previous poster depicting prisons as hell is not true in California except of the fact that the criminals in them are quite demonic. I work in health care there and they're clean and sanitary. Problem is everyone around you in a max security is brutal, sadistic murderer or rapist for the most part. People stab others to death for $17 left from the victim's disability checks. I don't think middle class drug dealers get into the max part of prisons for the most part ( levels 3 and 4) .

[elabayarde]

you know... i have a friend who was in the military and about to commission.(he was just finishing college) He was accepted to start law school immediately after, on a military scholarship program. He was very very squared away. But he was a complete and public womanizer. Well one girl, cried rape on his frat boy roomate. well he was there asleep, the roomate and the girl were messing around and he woke up after to the girl freaking out and leaving. She realized he was in the military....and come to find out she was actually married, to a military guy and her drugged and unsober mind decided that she should hall ass, after banging for 30 mins. She realized she was cheating closer to home than she thought.

Well, she 3 days later says she was rapped. My friend threw away her panties and very honestly told the cops this, when they showed up to ask about the situation. He didnt know what was going on when he woke up.
Minutes later he was arrested, and charged with rape as well. Well the DNA evidence destroyed her story about him having any physical interaction with her, although his roomate did. Well ultimately both were convicted, and he was convicted of some sort of accessory charge landing him in prison for up to 5.

Fast forward, when he gets out. He is almost unrecognizable to me. He is racist, very extreme in his views, almost like he has been reverse educated... it was amazing how it changed him and definitely for the worse. He was someone who was winning academic and military awards volunteering and mentoring kids. Now he is just such damaged goods. Prison definitely isnt to a place for rehab in the states...just a place to hide them from society, making them even more dysfunctional when they re-enter.

[InternationPlayboy]

When comparing the American prison system to swedens, I think Sweden wins. Most criminals in America that spend time in prison end up going right back. Many of them prefer prison over the real world after being locked up for so long. It's like you go in for petty drug sales and graduate with a degree in international drug smuggling. I believe in rehabilitation. I think depending in the case, some of those people deserve to rot in prison, like murderers and crazy shit like that. But an alarmingly high rate of people locked up in the states are there on some garbage drug chargers. People spending 20 years behind bars for selling some coke? What the fuck is that? Garbage is what it is.

[Teedub]

(11-19-2013 05:51 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

But an alarmingly high rate of people locked up in the states are there on some garbage drug chargers. People spending 20 years behind bars for selling some coke? What the fuck is that? Garbage is what it is.

Blame the Prison Industrial complex. Things like justice and punishment shouldn't be privatized. It's like something out of Robocop, which was meant as a satire on militarism and hyper-capitalism. Here in Britain, the probation service is getting privatized in March 2014.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

This doesn't surprise me. But you must note that this is all in many shades of gray (not, those shades you perverts). The gentle Swedish approach, while it undeniably works far better then the cruel USA system (i.e. it rescues all those "accidental criminals" and steers them back to normal life instead of guaranteeing that they'll become hardened gangsters), would be a hard sell in a primitive country.

For example, Croatian prisons are chock full of these gentle rules: facilities, services, rehabilitation, holidays and vacations (yes, HOLIDAYS AND VACATIONS) - but people on average are far too much of a scum to be reformed by that, so instead the enjoy their vacation from prison during which they kill a cop and rob a bank just for fun, then go back to prison and are again let out for vacations. It's crazy. My point being: the gentle justice system is great, but it only works on gentle, generally civilized people where most people are not scum. Try to use it on a much more depraved (on average) population and it will fail spectacularly.

[Samseau]

(11-19-2013 05:51 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

But an alarmingly high rate of people locked up in the states are there on some garbage drug chargers. People spending 20 years behind bars for selling some coke? What the fuck is that? Garbage is what it is.

This is a different issue unrelated to rehabilitation vs. incarceration. You're talking about cruel and unusual punishments, which are unconstitutional, but still get applied anyways because our country doesn't follow good rules anymore.

In an ideal world, very few things are punishable, and people are rarely falsely convicted of crimes, but if someone is indeed a criminal for something wrong, such as theft or murder, then they deserve hard time. First-time offenders should be left off easy, but second and third timers deserve harsh punishments as these people have proven they cannot function in a free society without causing harm to others.

Quote:

so instead the enjoy their vacation from prison during which they kill a cop and rob a bank just for fun, then go back to prison and are again let out for vacations. It's crazy.

Exactly as I would imagine it to be. Sociopaths will overwhelm any pussy system that does not try to stop them, and that's why rehabilitation systems will always fail.

Incarceration has evolved out of 1000's of years of various prison systems and it has been the one most effective for a reason. Problem people in a society must either be removed, killed, or detained. They cannot be changed, thus they must be dealt with accordingly.

I get that this isn't perfect. But there's no such thing as a perfect society.