[rudebwoy]

ManAbout - Are you in Toronto as well? Seems to be a few of us here

[DanDeLaCruz]

(03-18-2011 10:20 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Too much talk about money. EE guys are ugly and have no game at all. They basically get laid because they are aggressive as fuck so the girl at one point probably just give up resisting.

Part of it is them being aggressive, part of it, is the women have no other options available. When a foreigner strolls along, you're giving her another option...

In EE and Latin America the dating environment favors the men, not the women. So ManAbout... you're 100% correct. The local guys in these places don't need any game, they get by fine, and have plenty of choices regardless of their skill level. The better looking and smoother ones will have more, but there's so many decent looking single women available, most guys get their slice of the pie without having to try too hard...

Having said that. I think guys in these areas generally grow up with a certain default level of comfort and confidence around women because to them, women were always available. If you spend some time in some of these countries you'll see that even "beta" males have decent options with women... You'll find yourself thinking WTF, this could never get laid back in my home town yet his girl is pretty cute, and she treats him really good... and you're probably right.

[rudebwoy]

(03-19-2011 04:32 PM)DanDeLaCruz Wrote:  

(03-18-2011 10:20 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Too much talk about money. EE guys are ugly and have no game at all. They basically get laid because they are aggressive as fuck so the girl at one point probably just give up resisting.

Part of it is them being aggressive, part of it, is the women have no other options available. When a foreigner strolls along, you're giving her another option...

In EE and Latin America the dating environment favors the men, not the women. So ManAbout... you're 100% correct. The local guys in these places don't need any game, they get by fine, and have plenty of choices regardless of their skill level. The better looking and smoother ones will have more, but there's so many decent looking single women available, most guys get their slice of the pie without having to try too hard...

Having said that. I think guys in these areas generally grow up with a certain default level of comfort and confidence around women because to them, women were always available. If you spend some time in some of these countries you'll see that even "beta" males have decent options with women... You'll find yourself thinking WTF, this could never get laid back in my home town yet his girl is pretty cute, and she treats him really good... and you're probably right.

Well said.

[ManAbout]

(03-19-2011 12:29 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

ManAbout - Are you in Toronto as well? Seems to be a few of us here

Yes, I am in Toronto as well. We do seem to be well represented on this board!

[Austrian]

Don´t want to be seen as a fearmongerer, but i just read the article about Odessa on the German wikipedia and stumbled upon this:

"Nach Schätzung der Weltgesundheitsorganisation (WHO) besitzt Odessa mit ca. 160.000 HIV-infizierten Einwohnern (16% der Gesamtbevölkerung) europaweit die höchste HIV-Infektionsrate. Seit kurzem hält die Ukraine den traurigen Europarekord an Neuinfektionen und gehört auch weltweit zu den Staaten, in denen sich Aids am schnellsten ausbreitet.[8]"

It basically says that 160 000 people ( 16% of the population) in Odessa are infected with HIV and Ukraine is the country with the most new infections in Europe and one of the countries where Aids spreads the most worldwide.

[Luckystar]

I heard the same. Surprised me, even though it shouldn't. Kiev has been a well known P4P destination for years.

[MiXX]

Fuck. You guys must not want Me in Ukraine this summer. Shit, that's not good news, or is it?

Mixx

[rudebwoy]

Mixx - if your heart is set on going then go. I honestly cannot see how it is going to be a "bad" trip, I hear from two english friends of mine that Odessa is a great spot. Kiev I am sure is alot better than most places for women, you are different than the men they have there (exotic). Most of the tourists they get are other Euro's, plus you are not going for ALL the women - just one or two that are down for you.

On another note all these stats kill me, the biggest whores are in the UK and I don't see any stats about there level of sexually transmitted diseases. Fcuk I have even seen girls on TV talking about how they go on holidays and try to sleep with as many men as possible.

[Roosh]

Looks like I'll have to add a new rule on forum registration about fearmongering. Next thing guys are going to post medical pictures of people infected with STDs.

[oldnemesis]

(03-18-2011 10:20 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Too much talk about money. EE guys are ugly and have no game at all. They basically get laid because they are aggressive as fuck so the girl at one point probably just give up resisting.

The bold part is not true. First, clubs in EE are typically not the place to run your game - those are places where groups of people go to have fun, where girls run dynamo on guys whenever they can. Of course it is possible to game those girls the Western way, it is just locals don't go to clubs to game girls. So don't expect to see someone like Mystery there running tricks on groups of girls. They exist, but they do not go to clubs. Actually if you read a couple of pickup books written by Russian authors, you'd see they all are about day game - street, malls, public transit. That's where most of gaming happens, and that's where you might see some local PUAs performing.

And, as I said before, most locals get laid through their social circles. This thing is HUGE. To give you an idea, I've been with over 200 girls just in Lviv, and pretty much all of them came through social circles. If someone told me an idea to approach a random girl on a street, I would likely consider it weird. *sigh* I still do.

So the short summary is that most EE men have enough game to get laid regularly - it is just different skill set, which better matches their nature (if someone told me I'd have to talk at least eight hours to have sex with a girl, I'd kill myself), and reflects the environment they live in.

Quote:

Lviv is crazy beautiful, but after few days I think the concentration or hot girls is more important in Kiev.

And they're also less conservative in Kiev. How's your success in Lviv?

[oldnemesis]

(03-20-2011 02:42 PM)Austrian Wrote:  

It basically says that 160 000 people ( 16% of the population) in Odessa are infected with HIV and Ukraine is the country with the most new infections in Europe and one of the countries where Aids spreads the most worldwide.

I'd say it is bullshit. This quote is only present in German version, not in Russian, English, Ukrainian or Polish versions, and it refers an ambiguous source which doesn't even have a link.

[MiXX]

(03-21-2011 12:31 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

First, clubs in EE are typically not the place to run your game - those are places where groups of people go to have fun, where girls run dynamo on guys whenever they can. Of course it is possible to game those girls the Western way, it is just locals don't go to clubs to game girls. So don't expect to see someone like Mystery there running tricks on groups of girls. They exist, but they do not go to clubs. Actually if you read a couple of pickup books written by Russian authors, you'd see they all are about day game - street, malls, public transit. That's where most of gaming happens, and that's where you might see some local PUAs performing.

And, as I said before, most locals get laid through their social circles. This thing is HUGE. To give you an idea, I've been with over 200 girls just in Lviv, and pretty much all of them came through social circles. If someone told me an idea to approach a random girl on a street, I would likely consider it weird. *sigh* I still do.

So the short summary is that most EE men have enough game to get laid regularly - it is just different skill set, which better matches their nature (if someone told me I'd have to talk at least eight hours to have sex with a girl, I'd kill myself), and reflects the environment they live in.

You sound as if you are talking about Colombia OldNemesis. It is the EXACT same way in Colombia as you described above. How interesting eh?

Mixx

[Luckystar]

Old Nem is right about social circles. If I didn't have friends who were locals when I was Russia, I wouldn't have had a launching pad. I know very little Russian, and they really don't speak English.

Other than having a familiarity advantage in which girls feel more comfortable with their own, I don't think EE guys are any competition. Putting it diplomatically, if you have even a single selling point combined with either social proofing and/or language, you will do well.

Language/Locals + Looks/Style/Money/Intelligence/Charisma = Success

[oss_117]

(03-20-2011 09:05 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Looks like I'll have to add a new rule on forum registration about fearmongering. Next thing guys are going to post medical pictures of people infected with STDs.

ROFL, yeah it will be like european cigarette packaging : "GAME CAN KILL YOU: ENGAGE RESPONSIBLY" ;p

[Brian]

there is no way 15% of the population has HIV. thats ridiculous.

[ManAbout]

Maybe some local Odessa guy, sick of foreign guys coming in to pick up girls put that statistic up there to scare people off.

[rudebwoy]

(03-21-2011 12:31 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-18-2011 10:20 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Too much talk about money. EE guys are ugly and have no game at all. They basically get laid because they are aggressive as fuck so the girl at one point probably just give up resisting.

The bold part is not true. First, clubs in EE are typically not the place to run your game - those are places where groups of people go to have fun, where girls run dynamo on guys whenever they can. Of course it is possible to game those girls the Western way, it is just locals don't go to clubs to game girls. So don't expect to see someone like Mystery there running tricks on groups of girls. They exist, but they do not go to clubs. Actually if you read a couple of pickup books written by Russian authors, you'd see they all are about day game - street, malls, public transit. That's where most of gaming happens, and that's where you might see some local PUAs performing.

And, as I said before, most locals get laid through their social circles. This thing is HUGE. To give you an idea, I've been with over 200 girls just in Lviv, and pretty much all of them came through social circles. If someone told me an idea to approach a random girl on a street, I would likely consider it weird. *sigh* I still do.

So the short summary is that most EE men have enough game to get laid regularly - it is just different skill set, which better matches their nature (if someone told me I'd have to talk at least eight hours to have sex with a girl, I'd kill myself), and reflects the environment they live in.

Quote:

Lviv is crazy beautiful, but after few days I think the concentration or hot girls is more important in Kiev.

And they're also less conservative in Kiev. How's your success in Lviv?

Sorry not to be nit picky, but you claim you have slept with over 200 women strictly through your social circles. So one would conclude that it would be fairly easy to get a girl in Lviv or Ukraine.

I can assure you this thing does not happen in North America (my town at least), cock blocking is a major disease,girls are very caddy towards each other and generally do not hook each other up. Calling it a different skill set is putting it mildly.

So how about writing a data sheet on the scene in Lviv!

[Luckystar]

...

[oldnemesis]

(03-21-2011 09:12 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Sorry not to be nit picky, but you claim you have slept with over 200 women strictly through your social circles. So one would conclude that it would be fairly easy to get a girl in Lviv or Ukraine.

It depends. If you're doing it American style, i.e. going to bars/clubs and looking for one night stands, it will be very difficult. Much more difficult than in US. However when you have a huge circle of friends, things are much easier. Basically every time you gather together for a party - which happens at least twice a week - it is kind of a date, with the exception that you "date" several girls at the same time. A lot of things happen the same way - you show your value to several girls, they get comfortable with you, you might get a make out. Then if you ask a girl out "just you and me" and she agrees, it is pretty clear she is into you, and you're almost guaranteed to get laid unless you really screw it up.

This is why I always advise when in EE to befriend some guys in a club, so they see you as someone their friends would be interested in listening to (increasing their value), and that you're reasonable and safe, so they won't lose face in front of their friends if you start behaving like weirdo. In a month if you're social you'll get to know a lot of people, and will be invited to private parties every day if you want. Then it becomes impossible NOT to get laid, and if you hold off too long, people might start thinking you're gay.

Quote:

So how about writing a data sheet on the scene in Lviv!

I did a little, but all my info is no value now, I haven't lived there last fifteen years and the city changed significantly. Still, the main point is that it may be a good place if you want to find a wife. For a two week trip, Kiev is better destination.

[Rocco81]

Yeah I would need to see that study somewhere. 16% is up to almost African standards. I call Bullshit.

(03-21-2011 12:49 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-20-2011 02:42 PM)Austrian Wrote:  

It basically says that 160 000 people ( 16% of the population) in Odessa are infected with HIV and Ukraine is the country with the most new infections in Europe and one of the countries where Aids spreads the most worldwide.

I'd say it is bullshit. This quote is only present in German version, not in Russian, English, Ukrainian or Polish versions, and it refers an ambiguous source which doesn't even have a link.

[oldnemesis]

(03-21-2011 10:53 AM)Luckystar Wrote:  

Other than having a familiarity advantage in which girls feel more comfortable with their own, I don't think EE guys are any competition.

It is considered bad attitude to openly compete for the same girl. EE guys know that if that happens, then a) none of you gonna get her, and b) she'll think more of herself, and will be more difficult to game in future. Therefore what typically happens here is if the guy is your friend, he'll talk to you in private to figure out whether you have a crush on a girl, or she is just one of targets you'd fuck. If you tell him you really like that girl, he'll likely tell you something like "ok, friend, she's yours" and will either switch to someone else, or find an excuse to leave. In return you're expected to stick with that girl for the evening, unless she blows you off. This is not weakness, this is the way you tell your friend that you value your friendship. It is very important - a friend in EE is someone who'll commit perjury in the court for you if needed - without any doubt, and with no questions asked. Anyone who'd sell out a friend just to get some pussy would not survive there.

Now if the guy does not like you? Then you may get beaten up, often without any advance warning. Another reason to be friendly with local guys.

[Rocco81]

This review of HIV/AIDS in Ukraine is very different from the one stated above..however the rates in Odessa are going to be higher due to sex tourists, heroin, immigrants etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_Ukraine

[oldnemesis]

(03-21-2011 09:45 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

You sound as if you are talking about Colombia OldNemesis. It is the EXACT same way in Colombia as you described above. How interesting eh?

I'm not surprised, there is a lot of common between Latin and Russian cultures. Unlike Western culture, which is based on individual freedom, Russian and Latin culture is based on power of the group. Meaning that to survive you must be part of the group, and therefore follow the rules and code of conduct of a specific group. Typically you're part of several groups - your family, your (ex)school, your colleagues, your friends who run business, your buddies, and so on. And the interests of the group are always more important than interests of anyone in the group. It trades freedom for power - you have less freedom because you need to obey extra rules, but in exchange you get significantly more power because now the whole group is behind you. The group bond is strengthened by its members helping each others - today you helped me, tomorrow I'll help you. It is everywhere - businesses help each others to cheat on taxes, men help each others to get laid, women help each others to squeeze more money out of men, and so on. If you do business there, connections are much, much more important than money.

An interesting example is jury duty which was briefly introduced in Russia, and only for very limited set of crimes (like murder, espionage and so on). AFAIK this experiment has been stopped because jurors often see themselves as a group against the government, and bring "not guilty" verdicts just because this is what their group is expected to do. If there was jury duty for things like tax evasion, bribery or speeding 100mph over speed limit, nobody would ever be convicted of any of such crimes in Russia.

There is nothing common between Russian and Western culture. You'll feel at home there.

[Mr.GM]

(03-22-2011 01:17 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-21-2011 09:45 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

You sound as if you are talking about Colombia OldNemesis. It is the EXACT same way in Colombia as you described above. How interesting eh?

I'm not surprised, there is a lot of common between Latin and Russian cultures. Unlike Western culture, which is based on individual freedom, Russian and Latin culture is based on power of the group. Meaning that to survive you must be part of the group, and therefore follow the rules and code of conduct of a specific group. Typically you're part of several groups - your family, your (ex)school, your colleagues, your friends who run business, your buddies, and so on. And the interests of the group are always more important than interests of anyone in the group. It trades freedom for power - you have less freedom because you need to obey extra rules, but in exchange you get significantly more power because now the whole group is behind you. The group bond is strengthened by its members helping each others - today you helped me, tomorrow I'll help you. It is everywhere - businesses help each others to cheat on taxes, men help each others to get laid, women help each others to squeeze more money out of men, and so on. If you do business there, connections are much, much more important than money.

An interesting example is jury duty which was briefly introduced in Russia, and only for very limited set of crimes (like murder, espionage and so on). AFAIK this experiment has been stopped because jurors often see themselves as a group against the government, and bring "not guilty" verdicts just because this is what their group is expected to do. If there was jury duty for things like tax evasion, bribery or speeding 100mph over speed limit, nobody would ever be convicted of any of such crimes in Russia.

There is nothing common between Russian and Western culture. You'll feel at home there.

This was one of the most accurate analysis that I've ever read about Latin and Russian Culture.Although here in Brazil people seems to have more individual liberty to do what they want,the society structured by "power groups" and the "You help me ,I help you" attitude couldn't be more precise.Try to run a business here in Brazil to see what I mean.