[MiXX]

Today, I purchased my tickets to fly down to Kiev in January for 1 month. So, I'd like to open a thread on Ukraine topics only.

I met an incredibly beautiful blond girl Halloween night. Now, I see beautiful girls all the time, but this one had the most beautiful blue eyes I have ever seen in my life on a woman. I was hypnotized by her beauty, her smile, and those beautiful, deep blue eyes (not contacts).


As I approach, I was ready for ultimate bitch shields, but alas, she receives me with a very warm smile, a thank you for approaching and talking to her, and then she tells me "I'm from Kiev"....OMG!!! What incredible beauty, what charm and warmth and inviting smile this beautiful angel had. I must see the origin of this beauty for myself..so off to Ukraine I go..

Anyone care to share some updated Ukraine info that would benefit a latin player like yours truly?

Mixx

[Entropy4]

I would say to look at the thread about Odessa, Ukraine, but the advice there is all over the map and contradictory.

From everything I've heard (from multiple guys with tight game): learn some Russian. You're really going to need it.

[oldnemesis]

(11-12-2010 05:13 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Today, I purchased my tickets to fly down to Kiev in January for 1 month.

When are you arriving? New Year (Jan 1st) is also huge there with everyone partying, with a lot of people partying in clubs. Eastern Ukraine mostly celebrates Christmas on Jan 7th (which is Eastern Orthodox Christmas), and this is mostly celebrated at homes. I don't think everything would be closed, but there will definitely be less people out on that day.

Vast majority of guys in Ukraine/Russia find their girls through a social circle, in private or semi-private (like University) parties - which is huge there. Clubs are NOT typical pickup places there, and you'll rarely see guys approaching there, except when drunk or for laughs. Since it is hard NOT to get laid on a party, and a girl-guy ration is benefitting guys, they are not used to working hard to get laid. You'll likely conclude that the guys there have no game - which is true, most of the guys there do not need game. Most of "bro code", including the concept of wingman, is pretty unknown there as well. There are some PUAs here and there, but there are only few of them.

It is not socially acceptable for foreigners and low-class locals to approach in mainstream local clubs (those which do not cater to foreigners). Approaching in bars is socially unacceptable as well, people do not go to bars there to get approached, it is rather a place to eat and drink. The only socially acceptable way to do so is through introduction. By saying that I'm not trying to say you won't be able to score this way; what I'm trying to say is that you will not likely see locals doing that, and if they see you doing that, they might get pissed off. I doubt you'd get in trouble for that, but watch your back. Daytime approaches are more acceptable than clubs and bars, but most people meet each others on parties.

If you can befriend some Kiev party guys while on the plane, this would be very useful. Especially if they are students. There are a lot of student parties which are technically open for everyone, but not published anywhere so it is impossible for outsider to get in. Some parties are for students only, but for a local it is usually not an issue to bring a guest as long as you look sober, sane and have $5 for security guys. The selection is typically much better than you'd see in any mainstream club. The main benefit for you would be introduction to the girls who speak English (not everyone does) and would like some practice, which you can easily turn into your advantage.

And pack warm clothes, it gonna be cold/windy there. Late Jan to mid-Feb is the coldest time.

PS. One little thing. Locals may offer you a car or train ride to Russia or Belorussia to a countryside, a lot of them have relatives living there. While you do not need visa to enter Ukraine, this is not the same for Russia or Belorussia. Locals do not need visas there, and they may assume that if you enter Ukraine, you can enter Russia too. This actually happened to American friend of mine, who had to leave the Kiev-Moscow train with his girl in the middle of the night, and wait a few hours for the train back to Kiev.

[naughtynomad]

Hey Mixx. You will love Ukraine. I have a good mate there the same time as you if you're interested in meeting. He's knows Kiev and is dating the director of Amnesty International there. He can get you into a few social circles I'm sure... If you're going to Kiev try get to Doctors bar... It's savage.

Do some pipelining on love.mail.ru also. Good luck!

[wolf]

As I was born in Kiev I want to see how you do. Make it count, I asked my friends from all their experiences living in America, if you could go back in time would you stay in Ukraine or go to America? The shocking answer was they would of stayed there. I wish I would of lived there till I was 18-20 at least.

[MiXX]

Solid tips guys....much appreciated. I'll have an updated data sheet ready to go when I return.

[Lumiere]

I should be in the Ukraine in the new year.

[zanetti]

i went to kiev spring of last year.

had a great time and it's a very nice city. the vibe in kiev/ukraine is a lot more laid-back than russia and people are quite friendly generally speaking

ukranian girls tend to be a bit darker than russian girls; i didn't find them to be as attractive as russian but they're still way more attractive than girls in your average western european or north american city.

i found girls there to be quite friendly and interested in meeting a foreigner; biggest issue is to do with language; most people in ukraine speak next to no english whatsoever; i would focus on student girls: most of them speak some english and some of them are semi fluent.

in terms of day game, focus on the area around the independence square and khreschatyk street; i was there when it was warm so lots of people around during the day; this will obviously be less so in january; there is also a great indian restaurant on that street (ukranian food sucks!)

try to get your hands on english publications that have info on local nightlife, events etc; i think they're called "kiev post" and "what's on kiev"; you should be able to get these at TGI Fridays in the centre

even if you speak 0 russian/ukrainian it might be a good idea memorising numbers to do some basic negotiating with taxi drivers; needless to say foreigners will be charged more than locals; taxis around town shouldn't be more than 30-50 hryvnias

there is a complex in the city centre called Arena; this encompasses a club, bar, casino and restaurant. it is owned by the Klitschko brothers. the club is high end and quite nice; only problem is that its the kind of place where people go "to see and be seen"; not a great place to hook up though some serious eye candy. when i was there, a girl actuaaly approached me; turned out she was ukranian-american and was in kiev to rediscover her roots; it didn't go anywhere with this girl as she had stinky breath

Shooters is a better venue as quite popular with students; watch out for the semi pros though; those are the ones that are by themselves.

other venues that i heard were ok but didn't get chance to check out are: decadence, privelege house, maximum and caribbean club. don't know if these are still open as been a while since i was there

good luck

[K-man]

I've dated several Ukrainians, even though I have not actually been there. A few I've dated back in the States, and a few I hooked up during their beach vacation in Turkey and Bulgaria. Highly recommend, very warm girls, sweet, pretty, love to fuck. However, those in the States were exchange students and other fresh-off-the-boat types, and I quickly watched them get americanized because their newly made girlfriends encouraged them to be bitchy. I have seen with my own eyes American girls telling a ukrainian that she should come with them to some douchy club because there'd be guys there to buy them free drinks. So great idea to go the source.

First of all, pack warm clothes as others said - it will be freezing in January.
Daygame will work better, as my friends who've been to Kiev said nightclubs are mostly with tables where mixed groups go and sit together all night, rather than an American grind-your-crotch-on-her-ass type of dance club.
A good friend who used to work for Avon was getting sent on business trips there every few months, he was working on their strategy for Eastern Europe, so it's not like he interacted directly with local Avon ladies (which would be a huge benefit) but he would stay at some of the best hotels in town (I understand these were some of the chain hotels like Hilton or Sheraton) on the company tab and just hang out on the street in front of the hotel and ask girls where's a good place to go get coffee or eat dinner. Most of them were fascinated that some rich western guy is talking to them and very receptive of being asked out.
However, he did not hook up all the time - sometimes he did, and sometimes he would just get a hooker, which I understand were affordable there. Not sure this is what you would choose to do, but I'm sure you'll have a great time, and please share stories when you come back.

[El Viajero]

I was in Kiev last May for over a week and had a nice time there.

-This is the most difficult country I have visited in terms of language. There are virtually no signs in English and very few speak English. It's very difficult to get around in Kiev unless you use a taxi. I even had trouble using the Subway. Since it's also very difficult to order food when you cannot read the menu http://www.puzatahata.com.ua/eng/ is a great cafeteria style restaurant very popular with the locals. It's well priced and good traditional Ukranian food.

-Hostel's are around $8-$15 a night and hotels are around $75+/night. I have a great hostel recommendation but no matter where you stay it's a good idea to be near the city center on khreschatyk Street.

-The girls are really beautiful and there are so many of them. However, while i noticed tons of really attractive girls it was rare that I saw absolute stunners. The language barrier is huge so I have no advice with the women. I only went out to a club one night but stuck around my friends.

-If you're looking for a day trip I highly recommend visiting Pripyat/Chernobyl where you can walk around the ghost town.

[MiXX]

Damn - it sounds like I better start hitting some Russian courses quick!! At the very least, basic conversations, and inviting her to my hotel room for a "DVD movie" Maybe I'll have a good pipeline going via internet dating sites.

I posted a profile on Ukrainecupid.com (same owners as latinamericancupid.com) and in less than 24hrs received about 30+ (very polite) e-mails from girls. Half will probably be fakes I guess, so I have to start filtering out the bogus ones, and lock-down 5 girls to show me around.

Speaking of Ukraine women, where in the US is the best city to meet Ukraine/Belorusian girls? I've notice NYC seems to have a few.


Mixx

[DonovanVC]

(11-14-2010 12:29 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Damn - it sounds like I better start hitting some Russian courses quick!! At the very least, basic conversations, and inviting her to my hotel room for a "DVD movie" Maybe I'll have a good pipeline going via internet dating sites.

I posted a profile on Ukrainecupid.com (same owners as latinamericancupid.com) and in less than 24hrs received about 30+ (very polite) e-mails from girls. Half will probably be fakes I guess, so I have to start filtering out the bogus ones, and lock-down 5 girls to show me around.

Speaking of Ukraine women, where in the US is the best city to meet Ukraine/Belorusian girls? I've notice NYC seems to have a few.


Mixx

Other than NYC, Chicago has a good amount of EE girls, including RUssian and Ukranian. I usually mistake them for the other white girls here and then realize they are way better looking lol.

There is a neighborhood near downtown here called Ukranian Village. I was in a supermarket there and got a Ukranian girl's number.

I've found them on the whole though to be way harder to get than a typical American chicago girl. Many have agreed w/ me. Alot of them immediately get a EE boyfriend too.

But anythings possible and they r out here in a good number...

[oldnemesis]

(11-14-2010 12:29 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Damn - it sounds like I better start hitting some Russian courses quick!! At the very least, basic conversations, and inviting her to my hotel room for a "DVD movie"

Yes, it is a good idea. You'll be amazed how much Russian you can pick up in six weeks, and it will be really helpful there.

Quote:

I posted a profile on Ukrainecupid.com (same owners as latinamericancupid.com) and in less than 24hrs received about 30+ (very polite) e-mails from girls. Half will probably be fakes I guess, so I have to start filtering out the bogus ones, and lock-down 5 girls to show me around.

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but my guess is that 35% of your replies came from agencies, and the rest 65% came from scammers. Ukraine is considered the world leader of online dating scams, and in my opinion this is pretty true - there are actual companies with employees who do business by pulling those scams. Local girls typically use free dating web sites, which are free to anyone, and those who are looking for a foreign husband typically use agencies as their services are free to them.

Genuine locals who do online dating use local sites based on mamba.ru - there are a lot of sites based on that engine, and they all share the same profile database. Those sites are free for everyone (and I mean free, not US-style "free"; they do sell some extra services like better search or VIP placement, but you'll do well without them). There is no button to change the language on the front page, so use this link for English interface.

I would also advice you to say you're from Mexico or Cuba (or maybe Argentina or Peru). This will make you exotic, and you'll stand out from other foreigners (I doubt there is a lot of profiles from Cuba). This will also reduce the number of scammers contacting you, as they concentrate on Western countries. Just do not say you're from Colombia, they'll assume you're a drug dealer.

Quote:

Speaking of Ukraine women, where in the US is the best city to meet Ukraine/Belorusian girls? I've notice NYC seems to have a few.

Besides Chicago, LA and SF some less-known cities would include Denver and Sacramento. There is also a huge Ukrainian diaspora in Canada.

[MiXX]

(11-14-2010 07:56 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Just do not say you're from Colombia, they'll assume you're a drug dealer.

LMAO! Damn, those poor Colombians got it bad everywhere!

Great tips, I actually saw one girl on Skype today via skype webcam, so I figure, the non agency scammers are the girls that at the very least show their faces to you on webcam. She spoke good English with American accent, and said it is not common for English to be spoken in Ukraine, but she has studied English for the past 6 years.

Agency scams even exist in Colombia come to think of it....many foreign men pay up to 3,000 USD to so called marriage agencies to be introduced to Colombian "single" women.

Mixx

[Brian]

i've never been but i'd be surprised if most of the under 30 or at least 25 crowd doesnt speak good english. the world has opened up a lot over the last 20 years and the entertainment industry from the US really is global. the first time I was in Bulgaria I was with a girl who knew all the 'Sex in the City' characters. just like American kids today grow up with Iphones and email address they grow up speaking English for the sake of the music and entertainment we produce

[Sonsowey]

NYC is definitely good for Ukranian/Belorusian/Russian girls. Take the train out to Coney Island you'll catch areas where a majority of the signs/shops are in Russian. Definitely would be worth a shot to go there with a bit of conversational Russian to meet girls/practice.

Keep us updated on your learning Russian. I've dabbled in it in the past, but the case system is way too much to deal with when I'm not actually in a country using that language.

Y'know, in Russian you have to change nouns names based on their functions. So the name ''Christina'' would be different in the sentences ''Where is RChristina?'' and ''HaChristina is over there''. The mind boggles...

[oldnemesis]

(11-16-2010 12:07 AM)Brian Wrote:  

i've never been but i'd be surprised if most of the under 30 or at least 25 crowd doesnt speak good english.

Believe me, most of them do not speak good English. To speak the foreign language well, you need to practice constantly, and with exception of very few dedicated people most Ukrainians/Russians do not bother. I've seen a lot of Russians in Thailand who spoke zero English (not even "yes/no") because they took Geroam or French language course in school.

Quote:

the world has opened up a lot over the last 20 years and the entertainment industry from the US really is global.

The world didn't really open up for most ex-USSR countries; Ukrainians and Russians need to get a visa even to go to Poland or Romania. Their main vacation places are Turkey and Egypt, and they do quite well there using Russian only.

They see all the movies from US, but they are shown and sold translated. AFAIK there are laws there which do not allow showing/retranslating anything in the country unless it is translated to Russian or Ukrainian. This is different from Romania, where there are several English TV channels, and movies are shown in English with Romanian subtitles.

Also there is a difficult situation with copyrights - the piracy level is so high that the copyright holders have to sell the DVDs very cheap, some as little as $1. But since they do not want those DVDs to be purchased by, or resold to your fellow Americans, there are no English audiotracks on those movies. There are places where you can buy original DVDs from USA, but they charge US prices, and Ukraine is still a poor country.

Quote:

the first time I was in Bulgaria I was with a girl who knew all the 'Sex in the City' characters.

And Ukrainians know it too. But it doesn't mean she saw it in English (in Bulgaria she likely did).

[oldnemesis]

(11-14-2010 08:14 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Great tips, I actually saw one girl on Skype today via skype webcam, so I figure, the non agency scammers are the girls that at the very least show their faces to you on webcam. She spoke good English with American accent, and said it is not common for English to be spoken in Ukraine, but she has studied English for the past 6 years.

Playing the devil's advocate, this is something what agencies do. Not all of them, but some do. Remember, labor is cheap there.

Studying English for six years she must be from a linguistic university, likely with degree in education or some archive work. If she says so, and you do not speak to her during HER business hours (she supposed to be at work/at school, right?), then there is a good chance she's genuine. Even more if you told her you're from Mexico and she still speaks to you

[Rocco81]

Mix if you are around for a quick DC trip I can introduce you to some cool Russians (guys and girls) and we can some spots here. This has a good mix of people from all over Eastern Europe and I have some solid people to introduce you to atleast for some good info on where you're headed.

[MiXX]

(11-17-2010 12:22 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-14-2010 08:14 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

Great tips, I actually saw one girl on Skype today via skype webcam, so I figure, the non agency scammers are the girls that at the very least show their faces to you on webcam. She spoke good English with American accent, and said it is not common for English to be spoken in Ukraine, but she has studied English for the past 6 years.

Playing the devil's advocate, this is something what agencies do. Not all of them, but some do. Remember, labor is cheap there.

Studying English for six years she must be from a linguistic university, likely with degree in education or some archive work. If she says so, and you do not speak to her during HER business hours (she supposed to be at work/at school, right?), then there is a good chance she's genuine. Even more if you told her you're from Mexico and she still speaks to you

Humm...well, I am definitely not putting your advice to the side. I am placing heavy consideration that a girl is an agency scammer until she proves otherwise. I am not sending anyone of these girls a single penny, so no real loss, and it's Skype so even the call is free.

BTW, where do you think I should call home base for the highest probability of hooking up, and more abundant girls: Odessa, L'Viv, Kiev or another city?

Mixx

[MiXX]

(11-17-2010 02:53 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Mix if you are around for a quick DC trip I can introduce you to some cool Russians (guys and girls) and we can some spots here. This has a good mix of people from all over Eastern Europe and I have some solid people to introduce you to atleast for some good info on where you're headed.

You bet, I am open the first 2 weeks of December, so a weekend escape to DC is probable before I head to back to Colombia for 2 weeks. Let me know if you want to meet-up weekends for Dec. 3rd OR the 10th (I can do 1 of either 2)

Mixx

[oldnemesis]

(11-17-2010 10:25 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

BTW, where do you think I should call home base for the highest probability of hooking up, and more abundant girls: Odessa, L'Viv, Kiev or another city?

Kiev: I lived there. Being the capital, has the most diverse girl selection among its 3M population. Almost everyone speaks Russian there, some may not even understand Ukrainian. Probably the largest chance of meeting a girl who speaks English. A lot of universities and students coming from every city in Ukraine. Also the most expensive city to live, with the most expensive nightlife. Mild winter. More tourist-friendly (English signs, menus, English-speaking staff) than any other city. Very open, friendly and easy-going chicks, mostly atheists.

Odessa: I never been there myself, but have friends who live there. Excellent weather, not so hot in summer, and not so cold in winter. 1M people, also highly diverse. Probably less money and less options than in Kiev; my friend says it is much easier (for him) to score in Odessa than in Kiev but it may be because he's native there. This is a vacation city, but most vacations happen in summer; I wonder if it looks empty at winter. Should have some tourist amenities as well, and the chicks are reported to be very open as well. Speak only Russian, almost no Ukrainian.

Lviv: I was born and grew up there. Much sharper weather than Odessa and Kiev. 700,000 or so population, which is very religious (approx. 85% of the population goes to church every weekend) and conservative. Unlike USA they're truly religious, and it is not uncommon for girls to keep their virginity until the marriage. Seems to be the only city in Ukraine where you will find no escort ads in newspapers. The cheapest city to live/stay among all three, with some nightlife (but not a lot of it; AFAIR there is only one high-end club which is frequented by pros). A good place to look for an obedient Asian-style wife, but you will have much less success with one-night stands comparing to the cities above. If you're into a young (18-20) girl, you may even meet her parents before you get laid. Most of the population is bilingual (Russian and Ukrainian), but they mostly speak Ukrainian, and it may be difficult to you to understand their Russian. Roughly 70% of the population came to Lviv from nearby villages in 1970s-1990s, so their kids still maintain this "small village" mentality - they are quite suspicious to strangers approaching them, and not as open as girls in other cities. If you stay in private apartments there, ask about water schedule. There is water shortage in Lviv, and some districts only receive water from 6-9AM and 6-9PM. Hotels have their own water storage, so they're not affected, but private apartments may not.

I'd recommend to visit Kiev first, and visit Odessa only when you meet some people from there (either in Kiev or online) who'd be happy to show you the town. In any case, fly to Kiev and take a train, you'll get much more airfare options, and trains for internal travel in Ukraine are much more reliable comparing to air travel, especially in winter.

[Whoremonger]

(11-16-2010 12:07 AM)Brian Wrote:  

i've never been but i'd be surprised if most of the under 30 or at least 25 crowd doesnt speak good english. the world has opened up a lot over the last 20 years and the entertainment industry from the US really is global. the first time I was in Bulgaria I was with a girl who knew all the 'Sex in the City' characters. just like American kids today grow up with Iphones and email address they grow up speaking English for the sake of the music and entertainment we produce

Yes but those shows are often dubbed into the local languages. You have not lived until you have watched Lord of the Rings and The Simpsons in commie!

Many of the women do learn second languages, but they often learn German or Italian as often as they do English. As always, the main capital cities will have more english speakers.

[ManAbout]

(11-14-2010 07:56 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Genuine locals who do online dating use local sites based on mamba.ru - there are a lot of sites based on that engine, and they all share the same profile database. Those sites are free for everyone (and I mean free, not US-style "free"; they do sell some extra services like better search or VIP placement, but you'll do well without them). There is no button to change the language on the front page, so use this link for English interface.

I have been having some success chatting with girls on Mamba. I have made contact with a few gorgeous university students in their early 20s. While a lot of them are shaky with English, they are trying to learn the language. I have been switching between English and Russian. I don't speak Russian but I am using the Google translator which is quite effective. Many of these girls also have a page on Vkontakt.ru. I have tried contacted girls directly on Vkontakt, but it does not work so well. I have found that making contact first on Mamba seems to be a better approach.

[oldnemesis]

(11-21-2010 10:29 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

I have tried contacted girls directly on Vkontakt, but it does not work so well. I have found that making contact first on Mamba seems to be a better approach.

This is correct. My impression is that VKontacte is mostly used by underage kids. Mamba was the first, and has the best audience.