[Tornado]

I recently received two job offers. One from a private company and another from the federal government. It is in engineering and in consulting. The salaries are about the same but the private company is higher by about 5k but the yearly increase from the government is higher. The private company told me that I would have to put in 50 hours a week .

I was wondering which one you guys think I should pick.

[Cattle Rustler]

I would go with gubbmint, the yearly increase will eventually match the private sector job. However the most important thing is.....a goverment job has a lot of protections and getting fired ain't easy queasy.

[dasher]

Your money made / time is higher in the government job because you're working 10 hours less p/w but the pay difference is only 5k/year. If you think the government job is a long term job possibility, it'd be better since you'll end up making more for less work hours.

If you think the private company has better long term value (employment, skills, w/e) it's probably worth taking even with less relative pay and more hours worked.

[SeanBateman]

Private. Always private. Don't worry about salary increases, focus on trying to get equity which isn't a possibility in government work. Salaries and savings accounts are a surefire way to stay middle class forever. Use your salary for start-up capital and develop private sector relationships that will help you start your own company in one form or another. It takes a lot of work and a lot of risk to do something on your own, but that's the only way to build your own lifestyle. Government workers are losers with fat wives and boring lives.

[greensteelhead]

What kind of engineering?

I am a civil engineer who has worked 15 years as a consultant for railroad, DOTs, Counties and Cities. I am now working as a Manager for. Government agency (transit project). I have seen government agencies, railroads and now transit.

I have to say, I loved working for clients and becoming an expert on issues/problems. It was a wild ride working my way up from graduate engineer to Office Leader and Assistant VP of a consulting firms. I have worked for 5 different firms across the country and have done projects all over the western US.

I can honestly say, I will never go back to Consulting. I am enjoying my job: putting in 40-45 hours a week and having time outside of work to be with my boys, wife, family and other interests. I am not working 60 hours/week, traveling all over the country and pulling all nighters any more. I have time to work off 10 years of stress, drinking, travel and eating crap while developing new skills and improving myself.

The dirty secret is that the government provides connections and experience that will be extremely valuable in your career, and the pay/benefits aren't that far off. You will be in demand because of what you know and who you know. The stress levels are much lower, and you can learn on the job without the pressure of immediately becoming profitable for the firm.

The consulting route is good, but I beg of you, seriously consider starting at the government. I would also really get to know your bosses before accepting....there can be and will be pricks in both sectors. Take your time. Do your homework.

If you want to start a business later, you will have a better chance doing it at the government than doing it after putting in 60 hours for the firm.

Pm me if you want to talk about it more offline.

G

[WestIndianArchie]

Not enough information about your personality or the jobs.

But in most government situations, you get a chance to handle some really big stuff way earlier than you would in a private corporation.

WIA

[j r]

(10-24-2013 08:20 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  

Private. Always private. Don't worry about salary increases, focus on trying to get equity which isn't a possibility in government work. Salaries and savings accounts are a surefire way to stay middle class forever. Use your salary for start-up capital and develop private sector relationships that will help you start your own company in one form or another. It takes a lot of work and a lot of risk to do something on your own, but that's the only way to build your own lifestyle. Government workers are losers with fat wives and boring lives.

This sounds like very generic advice. How do you know which job will provide you with more contacts? Maybe the private sector job would have the OP working on one project with one team for the next two years and the government job will have him work with multiple projects and meeting the top management of multiple firms.

I'm a government worker and when I'm not falling asleep at 8pm next to my fat wife, I'm amazed at some of the people who will take my calls and meeting requests and who often seek me out.

[SeanBateman]

(10-25-2013 07:51 AM)j r Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 08:20 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  

Private. Always private. Don't worry about salary increases, focus on trying to get equity which isn't a possibility in government work. Salaries and savings accounts are a surefire way to stay middle class forever. Use your salary for start-up capital and develop private sector relationships that will help you start your own company in one form or another. It takes a lot of work and a lot of risk to do something on your own, but that's the only way to build your own lifestyle. Government workers are losers with fat wives and boring lives.

This sounds like very generic advice. How do you know which job will provide you with more contacts? Maybe the private sector job would have the OP working on one project with one team for the next two years and the government job will have him work with multiple projects and meeting the top management of multiple firms.

I'm a government worker and when I'm not falling asleep at 8pm next to my fat wife, I'm amazed at some of the people who will take my calls and meeting requests and who often seek me out.

It is generic advice but I think it's generally true. I'm on the private side working for a small engineering firm that does government contracts in a bunch of different countries, primarily energy related stuff. The government guys that I deal with are often smart in that they are capable professionals and engineers, which is fine. But they also often have bellies and zero style and a very middle of the road sensibility, and they have no interest in the outcome of the projects they are involved in beyond job security. On the other hand, the guys I work for (and to a lesser degree myself) have financial interest in the execution and outcome of the work beyond just a flat salary, and because of that we are incentivised to understand the work better than the government drones. The more efficiently we do something in terms of time and cost, the more profit we make. Government agencies think in terms of budget, whereas profit companies think in terms of profitability. The guys I work for are cool dudes who make a ton of cash and have the time and freedom to play with the money they make, which I don't think is the case for even the highest level of government worker. Yeah maybe they can afford to buy an RV to go camping during their two weeks of annual vacation, but I'd rather die. Flying all over the world, eating in nice restaurants on the company credit card and having a pragmatic project based schedule rather than a 9 to 5 office based schedule are all perks that I enjoy in the private sector that I don't think are available in the public sector. So that's why I say go private every time. I don't mean to sound overly opinionated but I have strong feelings about it. It's easy to rest on your laurels if you have a steady paycheck and benefits from a government job, but if you are driven to create a more dynamic lifestyle then the private sector is the way to go.

[Blackmagic]

Take the government gig to start. You'll have a better work/life balance and probably better benefits. You will also be virtually insulated from any downsizing due to the ebb and flow in contracts that private companies experience. You will still be able to cash in on the private sector money in 2-3 years if you want to make the switch then.

[polymath]

50 hours a week is nothing.

If you want better advice, post more detailed info about the jobs.

[j r]

(10-25-2013 08:39 AM)SeanBateman Wrote:  

(10-25-2013 07:51 AM)j r Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 08:20 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  

Private. Always private. Don't worry about salary increases, focus on trying to get equity which isn't a possibility in government work. Salaries and savings accounts are a surefire way to stay middle class forever. Use your salary for start-up capital and develop private sector relationships that will help you start your own company in one form or another. It takes a lot of work and a lot of risk to do something on your own, but that's the only way to build your own lifestyle. Government workers are losers with fat wives and boring lives.

This sounds like very generic advice. How do you know which job will provide you with more contacts? Maybe the private sector job would have the OP working on one project with one team for the next two years and the government job will have him work with multiple projects and meeting the top management of multiple firms.

I'm a government worker and when I'm not falling asleep at 8pm next to my fat wife, I'm amazed at some of the people who will take my calls and meeting requests and who often seek me out.

It is generic advice but I think it's generally true. I'm on the private side working for a small engineering firm that does government contracts in a bunch of different countries, primarily energy related stuff. The government guys that I deal with are often smart in that they are capable professionals and engineers, which is fine. But they also often have bellies and zero style and a very middle of the road sensibility, and they have no interest in the outcome of the projects they are involved in beyond job security. On the other hand, the guys I work for (and to a lesser degree myself) have financial interest in the execution and outcome of the work beyond just a flat salary, and because of that we are incentivised to understand the work better than the government drones. The more efficiently we do something in terms of time and cost, the more profit we make. Government agencies think in terms of budget, whereas profit companies think in terms of profitability. The guys I work for are cool dudes who make a ton of cash and have the time and freedom to play with the money they make, which I don't think is the case for even the highest level of government worker. Yeah maybe they can afford to buy an RV to go camping during their two weeks of annual vacation, but I'd rather die. Flying all over the world, eating in nice restaurants on the company credit card and having a pragmatic project based schedule rather than a 9 to 5 office based schedule are all perks that I enjoy in the private sector that I don't think are available in the public sector. So that's why I say go private every time. I don't mean to sound overly opinionated but I have strong feelings about it. It's easy to rest on your laurels if you have a steady paycheck and benefits from a government job, but if you are driven to create a more dynamic lifestyle then the private sector is the way to go.

I agree with almost all of this, but like I said, you have to take into account the specifics of the two jobs. Some government jobs give you a lot of exposure to the right people.

[Tornado]

What kind of information do you need? It is in mechanical and will deal with designing mechanical systems. Its in the DMV. I leaning towards government because I dont want to work more than 40 hours a week and want to travel. I also am considering getting my masters(which I know the government will pay for).

I dont want to do mindless work and just be a paper pusher. I want to be able to work as hard as I want and be reward for it, which is why I cant get private sector out of my head.

[Pyre]

PRIVATE!!!!

[Checkmat]

I'm a federal government worker. I worked 3 hours yesterday and got paid $280 for the day.

Take it for what it's worth.

[samsamsam]

greenstealhead made some good comments. Especially, if you want to start a business down the road in the same field. What I mean is, you will have connections that can help you win work, get approvals, etc. Why do you think all the assholes in the Senate and House become lobbyists. They know everyone already.

[Aliblahba]

When you sign on with the government know that you'll be entering the most passive aggressive slow moving organization out there. Prepare to watch all your sweat and tears go to waste becasue of affirmation action or minorities....or politics. 5 years into it you'll not be marketable to private org's due to piss poor work ethic or political jargon. Gov't jobs don't require anything but a hot body, clean record, and a degree. "Any masters will do".

In the private sector you work for your existance, which is the way it should be. Carry your weight as any man should. Or just join the Post Office where you can be guv AND union.

I saw guv employees deploy and get soldiers killed because they needed a report or justify their existance. It was more important to add another project to their email sig block than actually getting the armor to the warfighter. I'd never mar my resume and conscience with a GS position, even though they used to beg me to join.

In the end gents you have to go home every night and look yourself in the mirror.

[MrXY]

(10-24-2013 07:35 PM)Tornado Wrote:  

I recently received two job offers. One from a private company and another from the federal government. It is in engineering and in consulting. The salaries are about the same but the private company is higher by about 5k but the yearly increase from the government is higher. The private company told me that I would have to put in 50 hours a week .

I was wondering which one you guys think I should pick.

If you're upset that you might have to work even 50 hours a week, go for the government job

You don't have the energy and work ethic to be successful in the private sector

[Tornado]

No one wants to work 50 hours a week. If I have to, I have no problem putting in 60 hours of work in.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Good points all around. Different personality types suit different sectors. Your professional and personal goals also matter and may change over time. Keep in mind that the government is attracted to recruiting people with successful private sector experience. You also generally have a bigger playground to showcase your talents in the government sector. QA, for example, is much more tedious in the private sector. Firms in the private sector generally have more to lose so you typically have less autonomy over your work (teams are more common).

[iknowexactly]

(10-24-2013 08:20 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  

Private. Always private. Don't worry about salary increases, focus on trying to get equity

This presumes all private companies allow for you to get equity, which may well not be true.

In this case I disagree

I worked for the gubmint, even though I was very eccentric it came out well ( I now have passive income from them it takes a constitutional amendment to kill) .

Once you're a "perm" ( permanent employee) you have to practically deliberately fuck up to get fired. They have to write you up again and again, offer you training
to help you improve, and only then can they fire you.

The big thing if you're not at all Alpha and are kind of weird in some way, it doesn't matter it 's not at all grounds for dismissal, at least where I worked.

Just get used to stupid redundant procedures which can't be changed, ever.

The big thing is they NEVER tried to get me to work more than 40 hours a week, and enjoying life is STILL hard working 40 hours a week.

[iknowexactly]

(10-26-2013 11:03 AM)Tornado Wrote:  

No one wants to work 50 hours a week. If I have to, I have no problem putting in 60 hours of work in.

Try it when you're 50+, come back and let us know how much you enjoy the other 5 hours of your life you're not sleeping.

[iknowexactly]

(10-25-2013 03:55 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

I'd never mar my resume and conscience with a GS position, even though they used to beg me to join.

Your money and I assume your mission decisions came from the gubmint, just through a contractor. You were a temp. Your pride is misplaced.

[Aliblahba]

My salary came from the taxpayer, and mission decisions from the voters who elected the Commander-in-Chief.

[Aliblahba]

When applying to guv jobs they're only interested in duties and responsibilities. So if you were an armorer they want know how many small arms you had under your belt. It doesn't matter that you were in a non-deployment unit and they were only used once a year at rifle quals.

In the private your resume needs to curtail # of work orders opened, turnaround time on repairs, a low % deadline report, awards given for going above an beyond, ect.

The guv works off a budget, private sector doesn't. A friend of mine turned down a guv telecom job way back, but his coworker did. The latter ended up working 1/3 less (literally), but the difference was in retirement. My friend had better upward mobility and worked into a 2 level management position. He retired out with significant buyout/pension. The guv guy left after 30 with a meager pension, and had to work after retirement. He also struggled having to go back into the private sector and put up profitable numbers, instead drinking coffee and reading the paper all day.

Personally I like to work and be productive, and hate having to throttle down on the job site. It makes you lethargic and prone to accidents. In the private sector you get rewarded for hard work, which makes them money. The guv get a budget every year. Big difference.

[ASOT]

It's interesting to hear that people think the connections from a government job will serve you better in the future. Normally you'd think it'd be the connections and skills you learn from being in the actual market (private sector) that would be valuable for starting a business. But I guess in modern kleptocracies like the USA, UK, China, India, Russia and increasingly much of the rest of the world a rolodex full of the shot callers in the bloated government sectors is very valuable. That said for every ex government worker in a plush consulting role or running an overpaid contracting business, I bet there is many more successful business people who came up through the private sector.

OP I'd choose private sector, with government sector, despite all its perks and promises, you'd need at least 20 years of tenure and some serious office politics to reach the top positions that allow you to enter the world of cronyism and revolving doors. Whereas in private sector it's more down to your acumen and drive. And above all, in private sector you're less likely to be surrounded by quota filling special snowflakes that will drag you down and instead will be around similarly driven individuals. Choice is simple.