[scandibro]

(10-24-2013 02:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 02:16 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  

If you're looking for the top SEO people, they are not it,

Who's the top person in SEO, besides Matt Cuts?

WIA

Depends on what kind of SEO we're talking about. There are some highly effective spammers/linkbuilders who will never tell you who they are, but they post on forums like Wickedfire and Black Hat World.

Then you have the top SEO agencies like http://www.distilled.net/ and many others some of whom post on Search Engine Land etc.

If you want to learn SEO, Distilled, Aaron Wall, even the Moz beginners guide, then supplement with Terry Kyle and the Backlinksforum (now Trafficplanet). Chris Rempel, Eli from Bluehatseo.com and many others who I forgot.

SEO is constantly changing and there are few shortcuts left anymore.

[Vaun]

I want to clear something up, I dont fully know what this industry is. I only know based on what investigative work I have done to see what the fuss is over. I see a lot of black hat. My business is anything but, and approach the web from an entirely different place. When I think IM I think info product marketing. Nothing wrong with that, other than the consistent quality of these products, and this is what I have a problem with. Is affiliate marketing just grabbing offers and buying cheaper inventory to get the affiliate fee? We used to call that arbitrage. Both of these are perfectly legit ways to earn money, I guess the murkiness around it is what has always painted my view of it. Any resources to learn about it would help.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-27-2013 01:38 PM)puckman Wrote:  

I want to clear something up, I dont fully know what this industry is. I only know based on what investigative work I have done to see what the fuss is over. I see a lot of black hat. My business is anything but, and approach the web from an entirely different place. When I think IM I think info product marketing. Nothing wrong with that, other than the consistent quality of these products, and this is what I have a problem with. Is affiliate marketing just grabbing offers and buying cheaper inventory to get the affiliate fee? We used to call that arbitrage. Both of these are perfectly legit ways to earn money, I guess the murkiness around it is what has always painted my view of it. Any resources to learn about it would help.

Internet marketing is just marketing online. Getting traffic and converting that traffic into sales. Products differ. I sell software, some sell information products, other sell physical product, etc. Others (affiliates) may just work on sending traffic to sellers for commissions. The good affiliates can even help conversions.

Amazon, Ebay and other big companies do the same things. Look at their affiliate programs. Same type of stuff we smaller guys use.

Information products is just a small niche of it but one that is more widely thought of when talking about IM. Those types of products have a small barrier of entry compared to others which is why it may appeal to many people.

[scandibro]

(10-27-2013 01:38 PM)puckman Wrote:  

I want to clear something up, I dont fully know what this industry is. I only know based on what investigative work I have done to see what the fuss is over. I see a lot of black hat. My business is anything but, and approach the web from an entirely different place. When I think IM I think info product marketing. Nothing wrong with that, other than the consistent quality of these products, and this is what I have a problem with. Is affiliate marketing just grabbing offers and buying cheaper inventory to get the affiliate fee? We used to call that arbitrage. Both of these are perfectly legit ways to earn money, I guess the murkiness around it is what has always painted my view of it. Any resources to learn about it would help.

No one outside the 'make money online' use the term 'internet marketing' because that term is non specific and used for newbs.

Affiliate marketing means having 'affiliates' promote your product for a commission. It is the same as having commission paid salespeople. Almost all major brands and many, many smaller brands have affiliate programs, whether they are selling a service (dating site, hosting, brokerage account) or physical product (espresso machines, washing machines, hair wax).

People then get traffic in many ways, from ranking their own sites in Google, to paying for their own traffic on Google, Facebook, media buys and many others to running Youtube channels.

A cookie tracks who refers the sales through a url redirect unique to each affiliate.

Online marketing covers many aspects such as SEO, email, ppc (pay per click), ppv (pay per view), cpm (cost per mille such as popup banners), social media marketing (viral stuff, facebook pages, facebook ads etc), media buys (buying banner ads on websites), converstion optimization, analytics (data mining) and many other things.

These are all legit fields. Internet marketing is almost never used as a term in any of them, only in the 'make millions in a week online' kind of products.

[Vaun]

thanks. the only time I hear the term "Internet Marketer" I think of an arbitrageur, or a buyer and seller of inventory to chase an affiliate fee, or to hype/sell an info product. As opposed to 'Online Marketing', which I view as the legit online marketing business, used by agencies and brands to promote their products. I have built very large affiliate programs for brands, but I still don't quite understand how someone can make a living from it, I guess they do but I have never viewed it as an easier way to make money online, lots of leg work, very manual, low ROI, etc.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-27-2013 02:39 PM)puckman Wrote:  

thanks. the only time I hear the term "Internet Marketer" I think of an arbitrageur, or a buyer and seller of inventory to chase an affiliate fee, or to hype/sell an info product. As opposed to 'Online Marketing', which I view as the legit online marketing business, used by agencies and brands to promote their products. I have built very large affiliate programs for brands, but I still don't quite understand how someone can make a living from it, I guess they do but I have never viewed it as an easier way to make money online, lots of leg work, very manual, low ROI, etc.

Brand marketing isn't the only type of marketing. I prefer direct marketing rather than building a brand. A lot of online marketing is based off of direct marketing that has been successfully done before the internet was even around.

ROI can be low, unless you can scale it. I am sure the affiliates are pushing several different offers at one time.

[Vaun]

(10-27-2013 02:49 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:39 PM)puckman Wrote:  

thanks. the only time I hear the term "Internet Marketer" I think of an arbitrageur, or a buyer and seller of inventory to chase an affiliate fee, or to hype/sell an info product. As opposed to 'Online Marketing', which I view as the legit online marketing business, used by agencies and brands to promote their products. I have built very large affiliate programs for brands, but I still don't quite understand how someone can make a living from it, I guess they do but I have never viewed it as an easier way to make money online, lots of leg work, very manual, low ROI, etc.

Brand marketing isn't the only type of marketing. I prefer direct marketing rather than building a brand. A lot of online marketing is based off of direct marketing that has been successfully done before the internet was even around.

ROI can be low, unless you can scale it. I am sure the affiliates are pushing several different offers at one time.

my specialty is direct response, for big brands.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-27-2013 02:50 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:49 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:39 PM)puckman Wrote:  

thanks. the only time I hear the term "Internet Marketer" I think of an arbitrageur, or a buyer and seller of inventory to chase an affiliate fee, or to hype/sell an info product. As opposed to 'Online Marketing', which I view as the legit online marketing business, used by agencies and brands to promote their products. I have built very large affiliate programs for brands, but I still don't quite understand how someone can make a living from it, I guess they do but I have never viewed it as an easier way to make money online, lots of leg work, very manual, low ROI, etc.

Brand marketing isn't the only type of marketing. I prefer direct marketing rather than building a brand. A lot of online marketing is based off of direct marketing that has been successfully done before the internet was even around.

ROI can be low, unless you can scale it. I am sure the affiliates are pushing several different offers at one time.

my specialty is direct response, for big brands.

Nice, great skill to have. You will never be out of work.

[Vaun]

(10-27-2013 02:51 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:50 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:49 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:39 PM)puckman Wrote:  

thanks. the only time I hear the term "Internet Marketer" I think of an arbitrageur, or a buyer and seller of inventory to chase an affiliate fee, or to hype/sell an info product. As opposed to 'Online Marketing', which I view as the legit online marketing business, used by agencies and brands to promote their products. I have built very large affiliate programs for brands, but I still don't quite understand how someone can make a living from it, I guess they do but I have never viewed it as an easier way to make money online, lots of leg work, very manual, low ROI, etc.

Brand marketing isn't the only type of marketing. I prefer direct marketing rather than building a brand. A lot of online marketing is based off of direct marketing that has been successfully done before the internet was even around.

ROI can be low, unless you can scale it. I am sure the affiliates are pushing several different offers at one time.

my specialty is direct response, for big brands.

Nice, great skill to have. You will never be out of work.

really its all that matters. if you can take those skills to a new employer, a client or for your own product, you can be very successful in whatever you do.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-27-2013 03:04 PM)puckman Wrote:  

really its all that matters. if you can take those skills to a new employer, a client or for your own product, you can be very successful in whatever you do.

Absolutely, the world is your oyster. I just laugh because I hated marketing in my business classes. I just never took it serious. Now, it is the biggest money maker of all the skills I have.

I wish more guys on here would look into these types of skills rather than teaching English or learning how to program.

[Vaun]

(10-27-2013 03:11 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 03:04 PM)puckman Wrote:  

really its all that matters. if you can take those skills to a new employer, a client or for your own product, you can be very successful in whatever you do.

Absolutely, the world is your oyster. I just laugh because I hated marketing in my business classes. I just never took it serious. Now, it is the biggest money maker of all the skills I have.

I wish more guys on here would look into these types of skills rather than teaching English or learning how to program. It will take them farther and they will never have to worry about money again.

its all about proving the value of what you do, and nothing is easier, especially now. If you can prove that if someone spends $1 with you, and you turn it into $4 in revenue for them, they would be stupid not to. Problem is when they start paying you a lot. Then they go find a cheaper option.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-27-2013 03:15 PM)puckman Wrote:  

its all about proving the value of what you do, and nothing is easier, especially now. If you can prove that if someone spends $1 with you, and you turn it into $4 in revenue for them, they would be stupid not to. Problem is when they start paying you a lot. Then they go find a cheaper option.

Have you thought about selling your own products?

[Vaun]

(10-27-2013 03:20 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 03:15 PM)puckman Wrote:  

its all about proving the value of what you do, and nothing is easier, especially now. If you can prove that if someone spends $1 with you, and you turn it into $4 in revenue for them, they would be stupid not to. Problem is when they start paying you a lot. Then they go find a cheaper option.

Have you thought about selling your own products?

I wrote a book last year and shelved it. It came out well, professional edited and proofed, payed for a nice cover design. Set up a Kajabi/Clickbank store, then shut it all down. I want to relaunch it in Dec.

[scandibro]

(10-27-2013 02:39 PM)puckman Wrote:  

thanks. the only time I hear the term "Internet Marketer" I think of an arbitrageur, or a buyer and seller of inventory to chase an affiliate fee, or to hype/sell an info product. As opposed to 'Online Marketing', which I view as the legit online marketing business, used by agencies and brands to promote their products. I have built very large affiliate programs for brands, but I still don't quite understand how someone can make a living from it, I guess they do but I have never viewed it as an easier way to make money online, lots of leg work, very manual, low ROI, etc.

It's not easy, it is very hard. I wager 90% who attempt, never make a full time income with 75% never making $1000 a month.

As for how to live from it, it is simple mathematics. How many visitors to your website/landing page can you aquire and at what cost. SEO/PPC doesn't matter, if you can buy it cheaper than the outcome of click through rate*conversion*commission then you can make money.

You may not realize it, but there are many,many keywords in Google which can make you a millionaire (I am not one) from that keyword alone. It is pretty insane. Google itself is a major economy of billions of dollars in commercial intent.

SEOs such as myself hack the flaws in the Google algoritm code to outcompete established brands. However, the good times are coming to an end for affiliate seos. To volatile now. You can't be the middle man for much longer in seo.

[Vaun]

(10-27-2013 03:56 PM)scandibro Wrote:  

SEOs such as myself hack the flaws in the Google algoritm code to outcompete established brands. However, the good times are coming to an end for affiliate seos. To volatile now. You can't be the middle man for much longer in seo.

So I went to SMX earlier this month. the word there was SEO was dead due to Google's linking changes. Whats the word on this? SEO isnt my specialty, but I like to keep tabs on whats happening.

[poledaddy]

RE: questions about Ryan Deiss having past success in anything besides "make money online" info products - I saw him give a talk at a larger direct marketing conference a few years back (Glazer Kennedy). His big thing at the time was "membership sites" where it's basically a paid subscription model. He claimed to have successfully built two such membership sites, one was in Forex Trading, he said had sold for 1.4 million. I think the other one was in the fitness industry or something like that.

[Alpha Mind]

(10-23-2013 04:29 PM)scandibro Wrote:  

Ryan Deiss is too the best of my knowledge a total fraud and fake guru. None of the guys who actually know their shit run these kind of workshops, they are using their knowledge to bank for themselves.

You sir, are full of shit.

I live in Austin and their office is about a 10 minute drive from my spot. His office is immaculate and they have something like 60 cats working in there. You can't afford that kind of payroll being a fraud. I've been to their office myself and know people who do and have worked there. I've also been going to that conference since it started.

They aren't just in the workshop space. They're operating in at least 6 incredibly competitive verticals that I know of. That's not including their physical product business, and the other businesses they buy in Texas who have no web presence.

When members are looking at $500 + airfare and hotel to learn and/or improve their business or value as a worker, don't cry wolf unless you have quantifiable evidence to back up your claims.

For any members considering going, I definitely recommend it. The cost of attendance ROI'd well for me in the past, and if I was:

a) not living in Austin which has a vibrant IM/SEO/Tech community

b) still heavily invested in that space (IM)

and

c) not taking a trip during those dates

I'd be going, for sure. Pay attention, take as many notes as possible (they'll give you copies of the slide decks, but it's the rants and tangents are where it's at), network your ass off, don't party too much (being hungover there blows), and make sure to stay for the end, where a grip of cats line up to share 1 epic tip in a contest format.

It's worth the money and whether you own a business that's doing well, are just starting out, or work in-house, you'll take away a TON of knowledge.

Ironically, last night I was throwing away literally pounds of slide deck copies from other conferences over the years. Guess which ones I kept?

So, again, scandibro, please don't shit talk a conference, person, or company if you don't know what's up. I'm sure you do well, but here, you're out of line and wrong.