[teh_skeeze]

Continuation from here: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-28755.html

(10-06-2013 01:22 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

Teh skeeze what do you mean "let" them rot?

You can't just round them up and throw them in mansions. They are citizens after all with rights.

Most homeless people are in those positions by choice. You give them 2500 a year and they'll still be in the streets begging for money pulling in 40k and shooting it into their arms.

To say that a majority of homeless people are there by choice is absurd. I guarantee if you gave the homeless a choice between having a place of their own or staying on the streets, 99.9% of them take the roof over their head. The reason many choose to remain on the streets is that they don't wish to suffer the indignity of going to a shelter where the staff treats you with contempt and others try to take what little possessions you have while you are sleeping. Getting off the streets isn't as simple as people who have never been there make it sound.

I'm not sure about other states, but in New Jersey, junkies are considered disabled. They get housed up and a stipend, usually $160 food and $140 spending cash a month. They make more by selling dope, turning their government paid housing into a flop house for other junkies, and a small minority turn to petty crime. In Morristown, you don't have panhandlers. One, it's illegal to do so, and two, basic needs are taken care of. That's why you tend to see the same faces year after year. They don't cause problems for the most part. The affluent there don't like them because they don't want to see it, not because they harass people.

If you want to talk about trustafarians and other traveling kids that's a different story...

[JackDavey]

People often underestimate the difficulties involved in transitioning from homelessness to having shelter. For example, let's say I'm homeless and unemployed. I wish to get a job and get off the streets. What do I need to do to make this happen? Well, I fill out applications, show up for interviews, and maybe eventually get hired somewhere, flipping burgers or working at a gas station or something. Simple enough, right?

Except that in this scenario, I don't have any money to start with. I can't buy razors to shave with. My clothes have been slept in for a month, and I don't have any others. I can't go home and shower before my interview, because I don't have a home or a shower. I'm malnourished, exposed to the elements, subject to harrassment and abuse at any time by any person, and I smell bad. All of this combines to make me nearly unemployable. No one can call me for an interview, because I don't have a phone, and whoever takes my application is likely to just toss it, and immediately tweet about the gross #creeper who tried to apply.

This is not hypothetical--I've played this game many times. I had stubbornness, ruthlessness, and a clean record on my side, so I know things are not hopeless for the homeless, but it's damn hard. Layer mental illness on top of that (as many of the homeless must) and physical illness (almost inevitable; in my case it was pneumonia that nearly killed me before I finally got on my feet) and it's no wonder the homeless stay homeless, whether they want to or not. Many of them give up, and I'm not sure I blame them.

[teh_skeeze]

(10-06-2013 05:29 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 11:44 AM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

Was it on Saturday? If so, it wasn't a service that's where they have the soup kitchen that day. As for my homelessness, I just ran out of places to go. I wound up at the mission where I met a dude who caddied at a local golf course. He got me in there, and I started working within two weeks of setting foot in Morristown. I had asked for two weeks at the Mission so I could save enough money to get a room. Two days later I ask for my shower and it turns out they took me off the list and I was out on my ass. So I said fuck it and got a spot handed to me by a dude who was being forced to go to the Salvation Army because I know how to take care of a spot. I could have gotten myself into Homeless Solutions, but that place sucks. If you hear it called Hopeless Delusions, that's my legacy, as I coined the term. What else do you want to know? A lot happened over 9 months so I'm not going to go into specifics unless you ask. Here's a story of my time in Morristown.

When you were running game in Morristown who were your targets and what was your approach? Morristown night life is full of white collar yuppies so I'd be pretty impressed if you managed to bag a few of those broads. Personally I've found the crowds in the usual Morristown night life to be pretty cliquey and hard to break into. I approached some chick at Sona 13 once and as soon as I opened her she responded with 'Sorry I'm not interested". I was like "wha-" and she just repeated that she wasn't interested again. I kept trying to talk and her response would be the same each time. I was like "Damn I haven't even started hitting on you yet".

It wasn't so much game I was running so much as getting over approach anxiety. It was all done during the day because I would disappear as the sun went down. I would try to talk to any girl that I found attractive. Most of them would turn their nose up at me, some would smile, and a rare few would engage me in conversation. The chicks I go were the ones that hung out with the "Green People". The two girls from the story I linked were wards of the state. My ex had already run away from the home and the other girl just wanted to get away for a night. With those type of chicks I would just say "Hope the rest of your day goes better" when they would show an attitude. There's no sense in trying to break down a bitch shield. When I was there the ratios were favorable to men during the day. I'm not sure about night because I never set foot in any of the bars. I imagine that the women that go out get weary because I assume the bars are meat markets and they get approached constantly.

These people also take themselves way too seriously. The summer after I got off the streets I was hanging out with my punk friends and we decided to have a "Happy Happy Parade". We had drums, and accordion and we put on some costumes. The goal was to get a bunch of people to wander the streets with us and have a good time. Needless to say, nobody joined us.

[Duke Castile]

You mean if I said "Hey you want a place to stay for free or not" they would choose a free place to stay?

hahaha

What's next "I guarantee if you asked a homeless person if they want free money they would take it".

It's America bro. You don't wind up homeless unless you do a series of serious fuckups.

Fuckups are choices.

They are there by choice.

Everything you just stated as why they don't "choose" to live in shelters are because homeless people are thieves, liars, degenerates, and fuckups.

They aren't cattle or sheep. They are thinking humans that are a living better than most people in the rest of the world, why would they get a job when they can stand around preying on sympathy and get paid NOT to be productive.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-06-2013 07:03 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

You mean if I said "Hey you want a place to stay for free or not" they would choose a free place to stay?

hahaha

What's next "I guarantee if you asked a homeless person if they want free money they would take it".

It's America bro. You don't wind up homeless unless you do a series of serious fuckups.

Fuckups are choices.

They are there by choice.

Everything you just stated as why they don't "choose" to live in shelters are because homeless people are thieves, liars, degenerates, and fuckups.

They aren't cattle or sheep. They are thinking humans that are a living better than most people in the rest of the world, why would they get a job when they can stand around preying on sympathy and get paid NOT to be productive.

No, and you may be right about many, but don't forget those with mental illnesses. Obviously not their own choice.

[Duke Castile]

WWW - I'm betting that most of the "mental illness" occurred after years of being a drug addict, alcoholic, whore, thief, Combination thereof etc.

[Hades]

The homeless might be vulnerable, fragile, or disturbed, but it is true that they could do something to better their situations.
I don't think many people stay homeless for life, it's usually a temporary thing and seems to involve drugs.

[Emancipator]

The problem with the ones with Mental Illnesses is that the PC crowd go against committing them in hospitals and asylums, or governments dont bother. Following the closure of a giant mental hospital here in the region I live many of the mentally ill become homeless and congregate in a common urban area causing problems since the 80's/

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-06-2013 07:08 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

WWW - I'm betting that most of the "mental illness" occurred after years of being a drug addict, alcoholic, whore, thief, Combination thereof etc.

It may be hard for healthy people to understand mental illnesses. I have major depression myself. All through out my adult life there would be times where I would not get out of bed for days.

I abused alcohol but not to the point of being an alcoholic. I imagine I was walking a thin line though. Alcohol actually affects some people in a way where it releases more dopamine making you happier.

I was put on drugs right away. It is shocking how fast docs are quick to prescribe this shit. I hate taking any prescriptions but I really hated the zombie feel I got from those anti depressants.

My saving grace was getting back into the gym and hitting the weights. It gave me the same high as alcohol. I have been pretty constant in my workouts for the past 3 years and no problems. Sure, you get the occasional mood swings but those are normal. Nothing like I had before when the world felt like it was crumbling down around me.

I still drink and occasionally get carried away but not like before. Hell, if I drink too much I end up in a bad mood for days.

My point is I could easily have become and alcoholic which really stemmed from a chemical imbalance in my brain. Luckily, the workouts takes care of the chemical imbalance.


Drug/alcohol abuse will be, for a lot of situations, the end result of mental illness.

[Screwston]

I used to be homeless and think most of them are lazy, hooked on something or have mental problems. I would wash up and change in gas station restrooms before i stayed at a shelter. I dont really feel sorry for them but it was kind of sad to see the looney tunes. Theyre probably dangerous to themselves and others. Most homeless just hustle for drugs and a meal.

I do laugh when i see hipsters and anglos at concerts who think its cool to be poor or at least look poor. That shit aint fun. I could of swallowed my pride and stayed with a family member but was to embarassed to tell anyone. Did my time and got out! Wonder if i could use this experience on a PC hippy girl some of those kitchen volunteers were cute.

So, I dont agree with you skeeze and think your view point is absurd. Shelters give feed you 3 meals a day and let you sleep and shower there. What else do they need? I talked to a kitchen volunteer and got him to let me use his number for interviews. They dont even play around. If youre causing trouble, youre banned and will probably get the laws called.

[Mentavious]

Last winter I volunteered for a homeless shelter.

Most people were drug addicts, mentally ill or those who came out of prison.

There were a few cats that didn't know how to use a DVD player or a computer at a basic level due to being in the joint since 18.

Some people did truly fall on hard times and were really unlucky. Not everything is under your control due to randomness. There are things that you can control. Many of these cats can't function in society and would prefer to live on the street due to needing chaos in their life.

Almost all of them qualify for disability checks in addition to food stamps. Add cheap housing they could get back on their feet.

[Ensam]

^^^
I think that just underscores the point made earlier that shelters are really for the dregs of society. The more functional homeless can get by without shelters and would rather hack it on their own. I know a few guys who've lived out of cars or a tent for a year or two while they got stuff figured out. They were able to make enough money hustling to cover food and other basic necessities minus housing and didn't need or want any outside help.

[Wutang]

What would you say was the most common story for how the homeless people in Morristown ended up in the situation they are in?

Have you met a homeless person that actually was trying to rise get out of their situations and did any of them actually succeed?

What did these people typically do for food and other necessities? There's this one blonde middle aged lady who always wears a head scarf and has outfits that are way nicer then I would expect for someone who is homeless who I've seen get free stuff from the Starbucks across the street from the Market Street mission though I'm guessing she got cut off cause I haven't seen her there in a long time while before I would see her hang out there constantly - especially during the winter.

Also, do you know if the old bald guy that always hangs out at Starbucks either reading books or playing Yahtzee is homeless or not? I'm not really sure since he doesn't seem to have be quite as haggard looking as some of the other homeless people I see but I always see him wearing the same outfit every time and he also carrys around a bunch of plastic bags at all times - you know someone is probably homeless if he's lugging around a bunch of bags of any sort.

[Benoit]

I'm reliably informed that living on the streets is generally a shitty way to live.

If I was dropped into a situation like that, I would do whatever it took to get out of it, and I bet most 'normal' people would too.

That leads me to believe that most homeless people are there because, for whatever reason (drink, drugs, mental issues), they weren't willing or capable of doing what it took to leave.

According to recent research, crack addicts are capable of rational thought, so 'it's the drugs' isn't a persuasive argument.


Most sources of help for homeless people are targeted at the ones who need motivation but are capable of helping themselves. The truly antisocial and 'helpless' ones take a lot more work to reach. It's hard to justify giving a nice place to someone who shits themselves every day and screams non-stop for hours, but that's probably what's needed if people want to 'solve' the homeless problem.

[thegmanifesto]

Some of you guys need to take a trip to San Diego.

More specifically, the East Village of San Diego.

It has the worst homeless problem of any city I can remember, outside maybe DC in the 80's. Tents, encampments, dogs, people all over the streets etc.

Many of the homeless in San Diego are ex-military.

If you are blaming them for the "mistake" and "f*ck up" of joining the military, well then, I don't know what to say.

(Source: Until I left California for good, I would deliver sandwiches and fruit to the homeless by myself in San Diego during Thanks and Christmas).

[renotime]

13 percent of the adult population are veterans, and 13000 of those are from recent conflicts.

http://nchv.org/index.html/news/media/bac...tatistics/

[bacon]

I have spent too much time in developing countries to feel sorry for 99% of the homeless in the USA.

[Benoit]

(10-07-2013 10:33 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Many of the homeless in San Diego are ex-military.

If you are blaming them for the "mistake" and "f*ck up" of joining the military, well then, I don't know what to say.

Is anyone here saying it's a "mistake" and "f*ck up" to join the military?

Who's responsible for the choices they made? This forum is strongly pro personal responsibility, they ended up in a shitty situation, but what if they had lost everything to a con game instead of because of going through the grinder of war?

[Samseau]

I don't judge homeless or the poor. One day you could be them.

[Beyond Borders]

Yeah, I don't judge either. Not going to hate on anyone, but I do agree that most people can get back on their feet pretty quick if they don't have any major illnesses, disabilites, mental problems, or addictions. Our family was homeless for a short time growing up. My mom's a hard worker though and it didn't take long for her to get us off the streets. Some guy murdered some lady in the bum camp we were staying at not too long after we got a place.

Anyways, if I was homeless, I would get a gym membership and a library card. Yeah, the gym membership would cost $30 a month, but I think that's doable for even a homeless person, as they're not paying rent. Even a beggar could pull that together, and if you don't want to beg, the random odd job will do it.

Gym allows you to take showers and gives you a clean place to spend time, not to mention a way to get healthy, which is crucial when down on your luck. Aside from hitting the weights, you can play a game of b-ball, hit the pool, take activity classes, or loungue in the hot tub. A lot of value in a cheap gym membership.

Library gives you a warm place to hang out so the gym doesn't tell you to hit the road, and you can lounge around at night reading books, writing, or making plans to get out of your mess. If you have any sense in your head, you'll be reading books about money, business, and philosophy. And autobiographies about people who lost it all and got it back.

Any time not spent in the gym and the library should be spent hoofing around town asking people for work, ANY work. Your best bet for getting cash in your pocket quick is under-the-table construction work - labor. But put applications in everywhere though. Fucking McDonald's even - you're homeless!

Also, if you're ever down on your luck and see possible homelessness coming on, whatever you do, do not sell your car. A car is a huge asset for a homeless person as it can be used as a shelter that keeps you safe and protects you from the elements, as well as a place to keep your shit. If you can keep money coming in for the insurance, registration, and occasional tank of gas, it gets you from A to B (only drive when necessary). Many employers will require you have a vehicle.

There are actually some very interesting websites out there about living homeless, living in cars, van-dwelling, etc. I personally find them an interesting read and study in resourceful skills even when I have a roof over my head. If you end up on the streets, head to that library and look them up.

[JackDavey]

BB, that's great advice, and very similar to what I give people based on my experiences.

Note that most libraries require you to have a mailing address in order to get a library card. Most plasma donation centers (another option for quick cash) do as well. And many of them require verification by mail, so the very first order of business is to secure a mailing address. Shelters, missions, churches, and friends can usually be persuaded to help out with this.

[teh_skeeze]

(10-06-2013 09:13 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

What would you say was the most common story for how the homeless people in Morristown ended up in the situation they are in?

Have you met a homeless person that actually was trying to rise get out of their situations and did any of them actually succeed?

What did these people typically do for food and other necessities? There's this one blonde middle aged lady who always wears a head scarf and has outfits that are way nicer then I would expect for someone who is homeless who I've seen get free stuff from the Starbucks across the street from the Market Street mission though I'm guessing she got cut off cause I haven't seen her there in a long time while before I would see her hang out there constantly - especially during the winter.

Also, do you know if the old bald guy that always hangs out at Starbucks either reading books or playing Yahtzee is homeless or not? I'm not really sure since he doesn't seem to have be quite as haggard looking as some of the other homeless people I see but I always see him wearing the same outfit every time and he also carrys around a bunch of plastic bags at all times - you know someone is probably homeless if he's lugging around a bunch of bags of any sort.

I couldn't tell you the most common story. The long term homeless in Morristown tend to be mentally ill. One guy that was on the streets for over 5 years kept getting denied disability despite having multiple heart surgeries. He finally got it and moved to Madison. He taught me a lot of the ropes of living on the streets. Most of the people that come to into town don't stay for long. If they do, they tend to find a place. One of the more interesting people I met was a multi-millionaire at one point. He ended up getting sued out of his fortune by a greedy business partner. He was there for a few weeks then one of his connections hooked him up with 6 figures worth of seed money to start a new business and he was gone. He said the most important thing he learned from being homeless is who your friends, and who your family are.

Like I said earlier, your basic necessities are met in Morristown. That's why you don't see panhandlers. The bums try to bum other bums. That shit used to piss me off to no end because I worked. Everyday when I would get back from the golf course I'd get a half dozen people asking "did you get a loop?" I would always respond "that's none of your fucking business". I wasn't about to buy able bodied people booze, and there was no need to get them food. I would always give Bruce several cigarettes whenever I bought a pack. To my surprise, he hooked me up when I didn't have any smokes. Another guy asked him for one after he saw me get one. Bruce threatened to kill him.

The blonde lady you are talking about is a hooker. That's why her clothes are nicer than you'd expect. I've had flirtatious conversations with her, but I would never hit it as I've heard it's so diseased it looks like a cheese pizza with everything on it. That was 5 1/2 years ago, I can't imagine what she looks like now. Apparently she was a dime piece back in the day. As for old bald guy, I couldn't tell you because that's a rather vague description. The building that the Starbucks was in was in the process of being built when I left town. I haven't been to Morristown since because I have no reason to go there.

As for the decision to go to a shelter or remain on the streets, the best way I can put it is having a choice between fucking Lena Dunham or masturbating. Personally, I'd rather have my dick in my hand. My homelessness could have been over in less than a month if the Mission didn't fuck me. Granted, I let that shit get to me and the weather warmed up as summer rolled in. Another guy I knew (he was an older bald guy btw), got kicked out of Hopeless Delusions for 72 hours because his shift at KFC ended at 10 and the rules said he had to catch the last ride at 9:45. They don't make exceptions for people trying to do the right thing. He never went back and I let him crash in my tent for a while. That said, if you are really hard up for a meal, the Mission is not a terrible place to go for dinner. Be warned, the food can be hit or miss depending on which drug addict they have cooking that evening. The soup kitchen is awesome, if a bit repetitive. Good luck trying to get the goodies in the back. I've seen illegals fight old ladies over a loaf of bread.

[Teutatis]

Some of you guys are hard. Yeah, sometimes it's your own fault, but really, this is a tough world, living is tough, and sometimes shit just happens and it can happen to anyone. I doubt any homeless person is happy and would rather remain homeless than live a real fulfilling life. I do feel sad for the homeless, but I also know homelessness will never go away.

[Wutang]

(10-07-2013 10:26 PM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 09:13 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

What would you say was the most common story for how the homeless people in Morristown ended up in the situation they are in?

Have you met a homeless person that actually was trying to rise get out of their situations and did any of them actually succeed?

What did these people typically do for food and other necessities? There's this one blonde middle aged lady who always wears a head scarf and has outfits that are way nicer then I would expect for someone who is homeless who I've seen get free stuff from the Starbucks across the street from the Market Street mission though I'm guessing she got cut off cause I haven't seen her there in a long time while before I would see her hang out there constantly - especially during the winter.

Also, do you know if the old bald guy that always hangs out at Starbucks either reading books or playing Yahtzee is homeless or not? I'm not really sure since he doesn't seem to have be quite as haggard looking as some of the other homeless people I see but I always see him wearing the same outfit every time and he also carrys around a bunch of plastic bags at all times - you know someone is probably homeless if he's lugging around a bunch of bags of any sort.

The blonde lady you are talking about is a hooker. That's why her clothes are nicer than you'd expect. I've had flirtatious conversations with her, but I would never hit it as I've heard it's so diseased it looks like a cheese pizza with everything on it. That was 5 1/2 years ago, I can't imagine what she looks like now.

Damn I would have never guessed assuming we're thinking of the same person. She's pretty wrinkled up right now - looks like she's in her in mid 50s. I have no idea what her actual age is though. I haven't seen her try to hit up any Johns - she seemed just like another typical Morristown homeless person trying to get by. I see her trying to sleep on the benches of either the Green or the benches on South Street at night.

[R Smoov]

A few years ago, some lady who would always ask me for a dollar when I walked by. Didn't smell bad, had makeup on and guess what? Couple days later I see her at the shopping mall with some dude.

But there are some fake beggars out there. You can tell that some people are bullshitting when they beg for money by their body language and appearance.

All of this homeless talk makes me want to buy a trailer home just in case.