[GameTheory]

(10-03-2013 12:12 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:07 PM)Clyde Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:13 AM)ralphi Wrote:  

It would be interesting to see what would happen of the EBT cards all declined at the same time.

It would be more interesting to see if they actually cut defense spending.

I'm not sure what intergalactic war is coming but America better be ready for it.

Please retain focus on small, powerless parasites. The big ones are listening...

[Jaydublin]

well my friend that is all a pretty new way of thinking... trust me, we aren't suddenly geniuses. It will backfire like it always has, don't worry.

Yes, the highway system would be an investment... How can that compare to where the money is going today? Giving out cell phones is not an investment. Just an example but the money we spend today isn't an infrastructure investment so don't try to compare it to the 50s.

Spending beyond WAY your income with no return is very bad... government or family, it is bad

[JayJuanGee]

(10-03-2013 10:00 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

well my friend that is all a pretty new way of thinking... trust me, we aren't suddenly geniuses. It will backfire like it always has, don't worry.

Yes, the highway system would be an investment... How can that compare to where the money is going today? Giving out cell phones is not an investment. Just an example but the money we spend today isn't an infrastructure investment so don't try to compare it to the 50s.

Spending beyond WAY your income with no return is very bad... government or family, it is bad

OK JayDublin: the theme of this thread is govt shut down, and in the end, are you suggesting it is a good idea to shut down the govt b/c you and some others feel strongly that the govt is overspending?

If that is the case, then we can have that debate about how much should be spent and whether austerity is a good thing (I personally believe that austerity is a bad thing and it hurts the economy, but reasonable people may differ about these kinds of opinions), and in the meantime, while we are debating or not debating, we are going to shut down the govt and screw the whole house of cards of the american economic dominance (and favorable credit) into the tubes.

It is a loser for everyone to close the govt for a long time in order to make such a point about USA overspending. Maybe if the stock market begins to go into a freefall, that will cause some representatives to wake the fuck up. The last two days have been down trends in the market of almost 1% per day, but not on a major level, yet. if a freefall starts, may not be able to stop it.

[Samseau]

(10-03-2013 08:10 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 05:25 AM)Pacesetter20 Wrote:  

OT-His damn wife was telling me a story once and the bitch as so close to my face I thought she was gonna kiss me..... She definitely trapped his ass.

Tell me more. Tell me everything you know. No offense, but it's no secret who runs a Jewish family.

[NY Digital]

http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.c...ld_msm.jpg

Six Jews own almost all of the corporate media. Around 96%. If not more.

Just putting that out there.

[presidentcarter]

Big Peter Schiff fan here. I've never heard him argue the man/woman angle but he's completely on point with that topic as usual.

[Mentavious]

I know David Stern is a Jew who happened to promote another Jew to that same position.
Gary Bettman is Jewish
Bud Selig is Jewish

Not sure about Roger Goodwell

Ya feel me?

[Hencredible Casanova]

It looks like the polls that have come out show Americans blame Republicans more than Dems for the shutdown. One Fox poll shows a 44 - 35 split.

So far the insurance plans on the marketplace exchanges are coming up much cheaper, and with much better coverage and lower co-pays, than private plans had previously been and even cheaper than the employee share of many employer-provided plans.

Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot big time. The Republican governors in those states that have refused to enact the Medicaid expansion will be hit the hardest.

Quite sad though that's there still a considerable number of Americans so gullible and narrow-minded to blame the shutdown on Democrats.

This is a deliberate ploy created by Tea Party fanatics to employ blackmail to achieve an end that they could not achieve legitimately via the ballot box. They threatened this well in advance and are carrying out their threat.

How, exactly, is this the Democrats' fault? Because they did not give in to the blackmailers' demands? Do we now blame the person being blackmailed for the blackmailer's actions?

ACA was passed by Congress and became law. Republicans made repeated efforts to repeal it; they lost. Romney, whose own Massachusetts plan was the pattern for ACA, ran on a platform of repealing ACA; he lost. Republicans challenged the law, all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court; they lost. ACA has nothing to do with funding daily government operations and avoiding damage to the nation’s credit rating – and to the world economy. Nonetheless, Republicans insisted the government close shop, unless ACA was delayed or defunded. Despite these facts, some now blame the whole mess on the Democrats’ alleged refusal to compromise. Odd sort of compromise, don’t you think? It’s like losing every battle in a war, then demanding the other side surrender. Is this magical thinking or madness, dishonesty or ignorance?

[speakeasy]

(10-04-2013 04:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

It looks like the polls that have come out show Americans blame Republicans more than Dems for the shutdown. One Fox poll shows a 44 - 35 split.

So far the insurance plans on the marketplace exchanges are coming up much cheaper, and with much better coverage and lower co-pays, than private plans had previously been and even cheaper than the employee share of many employer-provided plans.

Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot big time. The Republican governors in those states that have refused to enact the Medicaid expansion will be hit the hardest.

Quite sad though that's there still a considerable number of Americans so gullible and narrow-minded to blame the shutdown on Democrats.

This is a deliberate ploy created by Tea Party fanatics to employ blackmail to achieve an end that they could not achieve legitimately via the ballot box. They threatened this well in advance and are carrying out their threat.

How, exactly, is this the Democrats' fault? Because they did not give in to the blackmailers' demands? Do we now blame the person being blackmailed for the blackmailer's actions?

ACA was passed by Congress and became law. Republicans made repeated efforts to repeal it; they lost. Romney, whose own Massachusetts plan was the pattern for ACA, ran on a platform of repealing ACA; he lost. Republicans challenged the law, all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court; they lost. ACA has nothing to do with funding daily government operations and avoiding damage to the nation’s credit rating – and to the world economy. Nonetheless, Republicans insisted the government close shop, unless ACA was delayed or defunded. Despite these facts, some now blame the whole mess on the Democrats’ alleged refusal to compromise. Odd sort of compromise, don’t you think? It’s like losing every battle in a war, then demanding the other side surrender. Is this magical thinking or madness, dishonesty or ignorance?

I'm tempted to take your last paragraph and blast it as a FB update. But I won't steal anyone's words.

[Grit]

(10-04-2013 04:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

It looks like the polls that have come out show Americans blame Republicans more than Dems for the shutdown. One Fox poll shows a 44 - 35 split.

So far the insurance plans on the marketplace exchanges are coming up much cheaper, and with much better coverage and lower co-pays, than private plans had previously been and even cheaper than the employee share of many employer-provided plans.

Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot big time. The Republican governors in those states that have refused to enact the Medicaid expansion will be hit the hardest.

Quite sad though that's there still a considerable number of Americans so gullible and narrow-minded to blame the shutdown on Democrats.

This is a deliberate ploy created by Tea Party fanatics to employ blackmail to achieve an end that they could not achieve legitimately via the ballot box. They threatened this well in advance and are carrying out their threat.

How, exactly, is this the Democrats' fault? Because they did not give in to the blackmailers' demands? Do we now blame the person being blackmailed for the blackmailer's actions?

ACA was passed by Congress and became law. Republicans made repeated efforts to repeal it; they lost. Romney, whose own Massachusetts plan was the pattern for ACA, ran on a platform of repealing ACA; he lost. Republicans challenged the law, all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court; they lost. ACA has nothing to do with funding daily government operations and avoiding damage to the nation’s credit rating – and to the world economy. Nonetheless, Republicans insisted the government close shop, unless ACA was delayed or defunded. Despite these facts, some now blame the whole mess on the Democrats’ alleged refusal to compromise. Odd sort of compromise, don’t you think? It’s like losing every battle in a war, then demanding the other side surrender. Is this magical thinking or madness, dishonesty or ignorance?

People might blame them for the shutdown, but people also subconsciously respect them for upholding and fighting for what they believe in.

[Easy E]

[JayJuanGee]

(10-04-2013 05:18 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

Easy E: this clip is being played all over the news, but what does it mean? And what does it mean to you?

Does it suggest some kind of ploy of the republicans? Are they saying anything here that they are not saying to the public? Are they saying that they want this shut down to go on for a long time b/c they think that it benefits them?

Actually, the DJ industrial average is up again today by .5% so, this Govt. shut down does not seem to be playing out so badly in terms of the stock market... so far.... overall for the week, it is down a little bit, but really only 1-2% which is not much different from the normal weekly fluctuations.

[speakeasy]

(10-04-2013 05:12 PM)Grit Wrote:  

(10-04-2013 04:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

It looks like the polls that have come out show Americans blame Republicans more than Dems for the shutdown. One Fox poll shows a 44 - 35 split.

So far the insurance plans on the marketplace exchanges are coming up much cheaper, and with much better coverage and lower co-pays, than private plans had previously been and even cheaper than the employee share of many employer-provided plans.

Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot big time. The Republican governors in those states that have refused to enact the Medicaid expansion will be hit the hardest.

Quite sad though that's there still a considerable number of Americans so gullible and narrow-minded to blame the shutdown on Democrats.

This is a deliberate ploy created by Tea Party fanatics to employ blackmail to achieve an end that they could not achieve legitimately via the ballot box. They threatened this well in advance and are carrying out their threat.

How, exactly, is this the Democrats' fault? Because they did not give in to the blackmailers' demands? Do we now blame the person being blackmailed for the blackmailer's actions?

ACA was passed by Congress and became law. Republicans made repeated efforts to repeal it; they lost. Romney, whose own Massachusetts plan was the pattern for ACA, ran on a platform of repealing ACA; he lost. Republicans challenged the law, all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court; they lost. ACA has nothing to do with funding daily government operations and avoiding damage to the nation’s credit rating – and to the world economy. Nonetheless, Republicans insisted the government close shop, unless ACA was delayed or defunded. Despite these facts, some now blame the whole mess on the Democrats’ alleged refusal to compromise. Odd sort of compromise, don’t you think? It’s like losing every battle in a war, then demanding the other side surrender. Is this magical thinking or madness, dishonesty or ignorance?

People might blame them for the shutdown, but people also subconsciously respect them for upholding and fighting for what they believe in.

I guarantee you many more have no respect for them. The Republicans want to shut down government because they hate the ACA. This is a battle that was already won. End of issue. Republicans are being sore losers and are holding the nation hostage over it. I find nothing admirable about that. The grand irony is that the model ACA is built on was the brainchild of Republicans in the 80s as an alternative to single-payer healthcare. This is a barometer of just how far right the Republican party has moved in the last few decades, as well as how moderate the Democratic party is.

[Hencredible Casanova]

To be fair, there is enough bipartisan support in the House to pass a "clean" continuing resolution bill with no changes to the ACA. Many prominent Republicans (i.e. Peter King, Devin Nunes, etc) have come out blatantly criticizing the Tea Party faction of the party being led by Senator Ted Cruz.

If Rep. Boehner called a straight up or down vote on a clean CR right now it would pass. The shutdown would be over in five minutes. However, the Speaker is being held hostage - contrary to his own way of doing things - by a well-supported and influential Tea Party faction of about 30-40 lawmakers so he won't call a vote. By giving in to their demands, he's now put himself in a box to where his credibility is on the line should he do an about face and surrender to the Democrats by putting a vote on the House floor. His own position as Speaker would immediately become jeopardized from a vigorous Tea Party contingent.

But now there is growing discontent within the GOP ranks and sooner or later a moderate coalition - which so far has been timid to speak as one voice - will coalesce with their House Dem colleagues to force a vote on a clean CR bill. That's actually taking place behind the scenes at this very moment. Unfortunately, the earliest this move can take place is October 14th, three days before the debt ceiling vote deadline. Boehner's best strategy right now is to wait until then to seek a compromise on the debt ceiling so that he can save face from not changing the outcome on ACA.

The Democrats have nothing to lose in the meantime. Unlike the last debt ceiling showdown where Obama compromised with the GOP, this time the President is dead serious on his position and by holding his ground the GOP can only suffer its credibility while it cannibalizes from within. They will emerge from this event as a divided party with distinct fault lines and absent of a dominant leader.

[Grit]

I could tell you my opinion, "Democrats want to be associated with Obamacare to please their voter base" which would be a logical assumption.

Now, what is a logical assumption for why Republicans want to block Obamacare? - Can my opponents even give a guess or theory without outright ad hominem personal attack?

I'll ask again, for what logical reason do Republicans want to block Obamacare?

Let me offer what I see:

The Republicans are tired of being conservative in lip service, and are taking a hardline stance to figure out a budget and a way to service federal debt instead of increasing federal debt and spending.

[Easy E]

(10-04-2013 06:47 PM)Grit Wrote:  

I could tell you my opinion, "Democrats want to be associated with Obamacare to please their voter base" which would be a logical assumption.

Now, what is a logical assumption for why Republicans want to block Obamacare? - Can my opponents even give a guess or theory without outright ad hominem personal attack?

I'll ask again, for what logical reason do Republicans want to block Obamacare?

Let me offer what I see:

The Republicans are tired of being conservative in lip service, and are taking a hardline stance to figure out a budget and a way to service federal debt instead of increasing federal debt and spending.

If the Republicans want to repeal Obamacare, then they need to start winning elections. They can't just throw a tantrum and resort to hostage taking. They deserve to lose on this issue, and they will lose on this stunt they are pulling.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(10-04-2013 06:47 PM)Grit Wrote:  

Let me offer what I see:

The Republicans are tired of being conservative in lip service, and are taking a hardline stance to figure out a budget and a way to service federal debt instead of increasing federal debt and spending.

It's important to realize the Republicans are not one monolithic group in this showdown.

There are many House Republicans that represent districts that are hardly conservative or that have moderate constituents. That's why if the Speaker called a vote about whether to keep funding the government, it would pass by a hefty margin (probably close to 400 "yes" votes in a legislature with 435 members).

The 30 to 40 lawmakers holding the Speaker hostage come from very red 'tea party' districts. They are simply doing what their constituents elected them to do. These guys exploded on the scene after the 2010 elections which reversed the House from being majority Dem to majority Rep. The new kids on the block have a lot of clout in the Republican party - were it not for them ALL three branches of government would be under Dem control - which is why Obama compromised with them during the 2010 debt ceiling crisis. The Dems did not want to call their bluff and feared they would bring a shutdown over the debt ceiling which would have negatively affected Obama's reelection efforts.

Now Obama is in his second term and given his reelection validated the ACA, which is already law, he sees no need to compromise on that.

Like I've said, there is enough bipartisan support in the House to keep the government funded. Most Republicans would support the President on passing a "clean" CR. It's the relatively few "Tea Party" lawmakers that are responsible for the current impasse.

[Samseau]

(10-04-2013 06:55 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(10-04-2013 06:47 PM)Grit Wrote:  

I could tell you my opinion, "Democrats want to be associated with Obamacare to please their voter base" which would be a logical assumption.

Now, what is a logical assumption for why Republicans want to block Obamacare? - Can my opponents even give a guess or theory without outright ad hominem personal attack?

I'll ask again, for what logical reason do Republicans want to block Obamacare?

Let me offer what I see:

The Republicans are tired of being conservative in lip service, and are taking a hardline stance to figure out a budget and a way to service federal debt instead of increasing federal debt and spending.

If the Republicans want to repeal Obamacare, then they need to start winning elections. They can't just throw a tantrum and resort to hostage taking. They deserve to lose on this issue, and they will lose on this stunt they are pulling.

Exactly. Republicans need to promise more free shit to poor people using other people's money so they can win more elections.

[Easy E]

(10-04-2013 07:22 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-04-2013 06:55 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(10-04-2013 06:47 PM)Grit Wrote:  

I could tell you my opinion, "Democrats want to be associated with Obamacare to please their voter base" which would be a logical assumption.

Now, what is a logical assumption for why Republicans want to block Obamacare? - Can my opponents even give a guess or theory without outright ad hominem personal attack?

I'll ask again, for what logical reason do Republicans want to block Obamacare?

Let me offer what I see:

The Republicans are tired of being conservative in lip service, and are taking a hardline stance to figure out a budget and a way to service federal debt instead of increasing federal debt and spending.

If the Republicans want to repeal Obamacare, then they need to start winning elections. They can't just throw a tantrum and resort to hostage taking. They deserve to lose on this issue, and they will lose on this stunt they are pulling.

Exactly. Republicans need to promise more free shit to poor people using other people's money so they can win more elections.

Makers and Takers???

[Jaydublin]

(10-03-2013 10:16 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 10:00 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

well my friend that is all a pretty new way of thinking... trust me, we aren't suddenly geniuses. It will backfire like it always has, don't worry.

Yes, the highway system would be an investment... How can that compare to where the money is going today? Giving out cell phones is not an investment. Just an example but the money we spend today isn't an infrastructure investment so don't try to compare it to the 50s.

Spending beyond WAY your income with no return is very bad... government or family, it is bad

OK JayDublin: the theme of this thread is govt shut down, and in the end, are you suggesting it is a good idea to shut down the govt b/c you and some others feel strongly that the govt is overspending?

If that is the case, then we can have that debate about how much should be spent and whether austerity is a good thing (I personally believe that austerity is a bad thing and it hurts the economy, but reasonable people may differ about these kinds of opinions), and in the meantime, while we are debating or not debating, we are going to shut down the govt and screw the whole house of cards of the american economic dominance (and favorable credit) into the tubes.

It is a loser for everyone to close the govt for a long time in order to make such a point about USA overspending. Maybe if the stock market begins to go into a freefall, that will cause some representatives to wake the fuck up. The last two days have been down trends in the market of almost 1% per day, but not on a major level, yet. if a freefall starts, may not be able to stop it.

That's the 2nd time you have put words in my mouth then debated the opinion that your created for me. Nowhere did I say the shutdown was good and I made this clear on another page when we quoted each other.

[The Lizard of Oz]

NY Digital and CThunder86, very intriguing observations about the Jews owning the entire corporate media and running every sports league to boot. Thanks for putting that out there, guys. Now we know where the rot is coming from. It's a good thing there's not that many of them, so it seems like a solvable problem.

EDIT: sarcasm (I thought that was clear but maybe not).

[iknowexactly]

(10-04-2013 08:17 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

NY Digital and CThunder86, very intriguing observations about the Jews owning the entire corporate media and running every sports league to boot. Thanks for putting that out there, guys. Now we know where the rot is coming from. It's a good thing there's not that many of them, so it seems like a solvable problem.

So, hero, are you willing to run the ovens for race murder?
EDIT: Oops, sorry, I didn't get that this poster was doing a parody.

[The Lizard of Oz]

IKE, I thought the sarcasm in my remark was more than obvious but perhaps not.

Let me spell it out: I hate anti-semitism with a passion and I hate seeing comments like the above, "just putting it out there..." etc.

[iknowexactly]

(10-03-2013 11:19 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.c...ld_msm.jpg

Six Jews own almost all of the corporate media. Around 96%. If not more.

Just putting that out there.

To point out they're smarter than you and work a lot harder than you do?

If you can compete, why don't you?

Or are you trying to drum up sympathy for some type of loathsome, racist rot inside of you?

[iknowexactly]

(10-04-2013 08:28 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

IKE, I thought the sarcasm in my remark was more than obvious but perhaps not.

Let me spell it out: I hate anti-semitism with a passion and I hate seeing comments like the above, "just putting it out there..." etc.

Oops, sorry. Went right over my head.